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2007 and newer Lincoln Navigators

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Comments

  • ljcaljca Posts: 2
    I've read the comments here and in the end I was dumb founded and surprised at the level of negative responses. It seems as though the people responding are not owners of current Ford/Lincoln SUVs. I have owned several fords over the last 30 years or so. Most were highly reliable vehicles. Regrettably, they tended to have issues with the design of minor cosmetic components (including the interior, body trim, etc.) Nevertheless, they provided good value for the money. My most recent Ford vehicle is a 2004 Expedition, prior to that a 1998 Expedition, and F150s. I also own a BMW 8 series, and have owned several other luxury cars from different manufacturers. I say this to show that I have no "loyalty" to Ford. In fact, my father was a Chevy lover.

    Prior to purchasing either of the SUVs I researched and test drove vehicles from accross the market (e.g. Cadillac, Lexus, Navigator, Hummer, etc.) In both the SUV purchases I found the Expedition to the best bang for the buck. The Navigator offered several creature comforts, but those comforts were not worth the additional increase in price (at least not to me). I believe Ford is being honest in their attempts to listen to customers. I have 4 issues with the Expeditions I own and have owned:

    1) Common clutch pack failure (every 20k miles)
    2) Leather cracks (multiple replacements under warranty)
    3) 3rd Row Power seat is "wonderful" but there is little or NO usable room behind the 3rd seat (e.g. for luggage) when the 3rd seat is being used
    4) The vehicle is too noisy in side (even with top of the line Mich. Tires.

    Other than these issues, the vehicles perform(ed) flawlessly and are a pleasure to drive (the recent independent suspension upgrade in the rear made a real difference).

    As a result of the additions to the NEW navigator I will be selling my 2004 Expedition and upgrading to the 2007 Navigator. I "like" the new grill and think that the old waterfall grill lacked style, was plain and feminine (soccer mom looking). The new look is more modern, high tech with a touch of retro design. The body line is more angular and streamlined, and there is a hint of the old Lincoln design in it. I don't particularily like the new gauges, but that is not such a big issue. What is important, is that the vehicle is easily distinguishable as a 2007 Navigator, that the new transmission (2nd generation) is smoother, more efficient, and more reliable. The vehicle is much quieter. It is still very safe, the leather and seating have been improved (both in quality of materials and design). The extra space in the extended version is what I need (big deal for me), and with that extra space you get an increase in the gas tank.

    In regard to gas mileage, it is just fine. In fact, on the freeway with non-agreesive driving, I often get 25 mpg (the same as a late 90s Olds Achieve with 4 clynders) that I kept around for a spare vehicle.

    Compared to the options, Ford makes the best SUV for the money, and has the best over all vehicle regardless of money. The independent suspension in the rear and power fold flat 3rd row seat are icing on the cake. The engine is tried and true and I have never in either Expedition, nor in any of the F150s "ever" had an issue with the engine. The vehicles is only further enhanced when purchased with the TOW PACKAGE (heavy duty radiation, extra cooler, etc) ** I don't even want to talk about the problems with the over priced BMW that is sitting in the driveway..nothing but problems, high costs of repair, etc...and it gets even worse gas mileage.

    The Lexus doesn't compare in size, the Hummers are terrible to drive and have inefficient use of internal space and many less luxury features, the Range Rover (beautiful to look at) has doors that are so cheap they fell like you can tear them off the car and the vehicle is way over priced, the Denali is truely ugly, and the number one competior the Cadillac...does not have independent suspension in the rear, has a much less refined body style, no power 3rd row seat (its engine is bigger, but its mpg is worse...and the Expeditions/Navs already have more power than you can use...even when towing a load).

    Thank you Ford for the upgrades on both your Expedition and Navigator's for 2007. I can't wait for January 2007.

    PS: Ford...if you are reading...A 10" LCD for the DVD would be nice, and the addition of 2 additional wireless headsets (total of 4) would be nice.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Interesting that you make these comments as if you have directly compared the 2007 Navigator to the 2007 Escalade. I suspect you have driven neither one of the 2007s yet.

    The 2007 Nav will be an improvement in several ways. However, when compared to the Slade, it may not make the cut for many people. Nice that you like it and that it is available and you will buy it. Lincoln needs buyers as well who go for emotion and bling and all kind of other irrational purchase reasons. After all, no one "needs" a Navigator. The new Nav with the 1998 body isn't going to win this King of the Hill competition, no matter how good the IRS is.
  • ljcaljca Posts: 2
    I have driven the 2006 Escalade and Navigator. I don't think anyone that compares them honestly can argue that the Cadillac provides a comparable ride. Indeed, in the front seet, they similar...but for the passengers, and especially in the 3rd row, the ride in the Escalade is terrible. I know that my kids are reasonable insensitive to such things, but I make a point of riding in all three rows when test driving, and I have co-workers (both sedan and escalade fans) that have commented that even my Expedition is a "huge" ride improvement in the back seats over their Escalade. While both Cadillac and Ford are planning on minor suspension improvements, this gap is a result of the independent suspension. Further, the lack of the independent suspension results in very limited leg room in the Cadillac.

    I have not OCD desire to buy a Navigator. I will, indeed, do a final comparison (with Cadillac and others) in Jan of next year. I'm confident that I will find the Navigator to be a better ride and prefer its other features (both mech. and comfort).

    Regardless of my final decision, I can say with complete confidence that I can't imagine that anyone would be ultimately unhappy with either purchase. Both Cadillac and Ford make a "nice" SUV.

    I'd like to think that people will be making their decision based on honest feature and personal evaluative comparisons and not as to whether or not the lattest "rapper" or movie star drives the vehicle. Or base a 60k purchase on whether or not they like they subjectively like the shape of a tail light or the placement of 6inches of chrome. There is nothing irrational about my purchase comparison parameters. In fact, my last posting is making a point that a good number of previous posting are emotional and seem to be coming from people that do not currently own a Ford SUV. I'm sorryt that you feel the need to try and personalize an attack. You are free to base your purchase on the looks of a vehicle, rather than the real value or usability. Such a choice is yours.

    This forum, however, is about the 2007 Navigator. My comments were in regard to whether or not Ford was listening. I was hoping to provide my personal experience and perhaps toss in a bit of my personal excitement that the Navigator (style and features) may be a winner for me. And in my humble opinion, Ford was listening, and appears to have addressed several issues that were important to me.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    There is nothing irrational about my purchase comparison parameters. I don't think anyone was saying that there is anything irrational about your approach. Certainly not me. And in any event, there's no need to take it personally. ;)

    But I was suggesting that a lot of people purchase Escalades and the like based on less than rational reasons, and right now the Escalade seems to have the more winning combination in that regard. Lincoln needs to grow its sales, so attention to the details you like--along with more updated styling--would be even better. In the time the Escalade has been around (less time than the Nav), GM has completely changed its body (including the entire greenhouse area) and interior three times. The 2007 interior is a smashing improvement.

    Meanwhile, Lincoln has beefed up the frame twice, added IRS, a 6 speed transmission and other very substantial changes hidden under the bushel of the 1998 body shell (albeit with new interior, front clip and tailgate). It is a good luxury SUV and will meet your needs nicely. But it is no wonder that the 2007 Slade looks fresher and more comtemporary, because it is. And lots of vehicles for better or for worse win the sales wars on looks alone.
  • But I was suggesting that a lot of people purchase Escalades and the like based on less than rational reasons...

    Now I think that is the best description of why people buy luxo vehicles anyway, and pay a premium for all of those gimmickry add-ons they'll probably never use, like manumatics ;) , and don't really need. At these price points and purchasing decisions, it's all about emotion.

    Let's face it, most people just need to get from Point A to Point B. A Chevy Tahoe or Ford Explorer will do just as well as a Cadillac, Hummer, or Lincoln.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Posts: 698
    "But I was suggesting that a lot of people purchase Escalades and the like based on less than rational reasons... "

    displacedtexan- I completely agree with your assessment. "Luxury" is not rational- it's emotional.
    It's about how it makes you feel, not what it does.
    My Timex keeps better time than my Rolex (which I never adequately shake so it's always an hour behind), but which one is my 'preferred" watch?

    My Expedition does everything a Navigator does for a lot less money but guess which one we'll likely be buying?
    That's right, the fancy one.
  • My 2006 Navigator is my third Navigator which followed a first year expo. I have about 5,000 miles so far and have had zero problems. That is a major improvement over past vehicles.
  • frankly this makes me ashamed to be american . this has to be the worst design ford has every come up with. i hope this poor dog just bombs and they end up doing an all new navi. :lemon: :lemon: :lemon:
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    If this bombs, it may mean no more Navis.

    It is definitely a polarizing grill, but much of the rest of it has the same appearance it has always had. The grill will get it noticed, and for all the people who will hate it, there will be others attracted to the flash. It doesn't have gas mileage or extra power going for it, so maybe this strange design will help it stay in the marketplace until Lincoln can re-think a more innovative replacement.
  • It does have the folding 3dr row and IRS, but I think that's trumped by the Escalades 100hp advantage and better MPG.
    I hope they price the Navigator $10-15k under the Escalade, otherwise it's on a suicide mission.

    (PS, I kind of like the grille!)
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Scooter comes out of the closet...
  • ...and I admit that freely...
  • Did anyone see the big Luxury SUV comparison in the October Car and Driver?
    The Navigator came in a very distant 5th out of 5.
    Ouch.
  • Not even the grate, er, grille, could hide the lack of substantial updates.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Either they have a crash program in place already to save the first luxury SUV...or it is toast.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Curiously, there was nary a mention of the grill by Car and Driver. They had apoplexy over the godawful interior, but simply found the exterior little short of boring. And it was interesting seeing the Gator among the group of five. It did seem to look nondescript--less flashy than the others
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    So I was able to skim this comparo at the supermarket yesterday.

    They rated the Nav last amoung Escalade (4th) Infiniti (3rd) Audi (2nd) Mercedes (1st)

    These also go roughly in the order of how much they cost. Merc over 60K, Audi close 2nd when optioned, Infinit a relative bargain, Esc overpriced.

    THey said "Fun to drive the Navigator? - Fughettaboutit." Well, none of these things is a sports car. Does anyone really buy an Escalade looking for a fun to drive vehicle? But I think they may have overlooked the Nav's advantage of IRS and it's positive effect on ride and the 3rd seat.

    OK, enuf defending it. I was really defending my 2004 Nav, which probably would have garnered more points that the 07 since the 2004 has a beautiful, modern electroluminescent instrument panel with satin aluminum accents and mahogany wood, along with the door covering the radio and/or Nav system. It all works beautifully well together and looks expensive. The 2007 OTOH has guages from a 1970s vintage Ford Granada (C&D said 1958-style guages - that went too far IMHO), blonde wood with black trim that just looks CHEAP in comparison to the 2004 interior. ANd the dash doesn't look expensive with a good fit - it looks cheap and thrown together. And where are the buttons for the information system? Or did they take that out? I'll bet they saved $100s of dollars on this new instrument panel - and it shows. I really hadn't seen many pix of the IP before - Lincoln is certainly not showing it on their web site. I just hadn't realized how truly UGLY it is. It's horribly bad. From 1st place to last - and Ford brags about the money they're spending on interior design???

    Lastly, they took off the big chrome piece above the ugly new grille which improved the looks a bit such that I would now give the front redesign a grade of 'F' rather than 'F-'. Course there's a 6inch tall piece of chrome running the length of the doors that looks ridiculous. I like ONLY the new rear treatment. Judging from some of the designers I met at PAG HQs a few years ago, I'm not surprised they wanted to make the rear end as inviting as possible.

    I predict the new Navigator will be a flop. Deservedly so I might add.

    I hate to do it but finances dictate I must soon put my 2004 up for sale unless a briefcase full of $100s falls into my lap. It is a beautiful ride. I think I'll wait one more month to list it because by then:
    - gas prices will have dropped to $2.50/gal
    - people will start thinking about ski season and a nice big 4X4 to get them there.
    and most important
    - the 2007 Navigator will be out and when folks see it, the value of a clean low-mileage 2004 should skyrocket!
  • "The 2007 OTOH has guages from a 1970s vintage Ford Granada"

    That is too funny!-- As I've said before, I kind of like the new grille.
    I showed the C&D article to my wife--- She said..."They look like the gauges in my old car."

    What did she have when we met?...A 1979 Granada!
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    HEEHEE. I remember cause my Dad had one back then.

    THIS kind of 'retro' we can all do without.
  • I'm pretty sure I saw a new Navi today (didn't know they were in the showrooms) blasting passed me on the interstate. It looked like it still had the chrome top on the grill, the part that looks like a bug catcher. I thought they got rid of that part, to tone things down some.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Depends on the trim level.

    I don't think it is wise to tone anything down, when it is coming up against the chrome-laden Escalade.
  • True. It would have been better to match the Escalade under the hood than outside the hood, though.
  • WOW this board is dead I wonder why??? what an UGLY looking SUV inside and out. I did'nt even know they were out. The dealer I leased my 06 Navi thru emailed me today that they are available with a $5500 rebate..LOL!!! My navi has been in the shop for longer periods of time than any other car i've owned. Once my lease is up (2008..UHhhhhG) I will be moving on. Yep Really smart putting a "FORD" in charge of FORD...UGLY!!!!
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    The Cadillac has been completely refreshed three times so far.
    The Lincoln is still using the same body shell as when they were introduced 9 years ago.


    I disagree, scooter - 1: The Navigator was thoroughly "refreshed" for 03. A couple of door panels that came over is irrelevant - the truck was remodeled with an independent rear suspension and 3rd row seats unrivaled in the industry today, certainly not rivaled by Cadillac's "you pull em out and stow them somewhere" seats. The Lincoln's powerfold completely into the floor making it flat. In addition the Lincoln got a 4valve OHC engine in 00, something Cadillac hasn't yet achieved either. Technology in the Cadillac is negligable compared to Lincoln. Lincoln had cooled front seats and park assist in 02.

    Let's go over the Bruthalade for a minute. I happened to take a thorough test drive in an 07 just yesterday. GM laughed their heads off at the Navigator in 97 when it debuted as a 98 model - but the darn thing sold so they hurried and put a wreath and crest on a Denali, and sold it as a Cadillac in 00 - for one year. There were no 01's. Meantime, they were reskinning that Denali, the frame and architecture by the way on that go back to 1988. Anyway, in 02 it comes out looking hot. But still had a Chevy Truck dash and interior by and large, with some plood leather and vinyl. That, my friend is not a complete refresh, it's a reskin. It remained in that low tech condition until 07 when it was remodeled to a GMT900 platform, and admittedly, I was impressed with the new one. So, it has had one reskin and one remodel. The Navigator had a remodel, and for 07, a reskin. Sounds the same to me. The Navigator still out techs the Cadillac though.

    What did I like about the Escalade. Power from the new pushrod, old fashioned 6.2L engine. IT's a beast, alright. Much better than the 06 was. Interior, it's not unique to the Cadillac still, it's just like a Tahoe with better plood. Still a fault with the Slade. However, it's a nice one. FINALLY, GM has a touch screen Navigation (Which Ford has had since 00). It's DVD driven. Seats are great - they always were. If you get the ESV, it's nice, the regular one is still a little tight in the back. I'd buy one, frankly, it's so nice looking, if only they could figure out how to get that 3rd seat right. A full remodel is needed again, already.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Your description of the grille as "Electric Shaver" is perfect ;)
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Say what you want. However, Ford made the mistake of doing the major changes underneath only, thinking most everyone would perceive it as you do. But sales keep slipping, whether you are talking Ranger or Taurus or the 05 and 06 Explorer differences.

    However, The Slade has had 3 complete body changes. Everything: windshield, all glass, A, B and C pillars, every single body panel and all interior pieces. Like Toyota always does when it issues a redesign.

    Is it meaningful? Depends on what you want, but the average Joe isn't going to look at a 2002 Nav and a 03 and see much more than a yearly update, even though they are significantly different underneath. The 99 and the 07 still use the same windshield, same door glass, same door panels, same A, B, C pillars (the tailgate area was altered) and essentially all the same mounting points for the few new panels. That's one reason why fewer and fewer people take notice of them.

    The 07 grill was an attempt to differentiate, but to most eyes it looks like they put a different grill on the same vehicle. It looks like the yearly updates Detroit used to do years ago on every model, between thorough re-designs. It is one of the ways Ford tried to cut corners, and now they are living with the result: even more market share loss.
  • I can't believe I'm writing this, but I went to a LM dealer and looked at the '07 Navi in the face. I kind of liked the styling.

    Now, I don't like the departure from a "Lincoln look" with the traditional waterfall grill. That's a huge mistake for the Navi and the MKX. You'd think Lincoln would have learned that, going down the road of "no one knows what a Lincoln's supposed to look like" in the 50's, but considering it on a stand-alone basis, I liked the "in your face" grill. I like the taillights. I even like the center stack. (I never understood the purpose of a lid over the radio controls. Maybe over the auto climate controls, but not the radio.) Ignoring the previous gen's classy electrolum instruments, I even liked the retro gauges.

    I'll never buy one of these behemoths, of any ilk, foreign or domestic, but if I were to, I'd seriously consider the Navi.

    There. I can't believe I wrote that.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I'm just like you, dt. I have been resentful of the new style Navigator since the first picture I saw. But seeing it in person - made me want one. Amazing....
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,689
    I just saw one on the road today and that big bar at the top of the grille was painted body color (white, or white chocolate, whatever) and I thought it looked great - much better than the pictures.
  • Well, as the sole-defender of the 07's look, I'm waiting to see how y'all want your crow served up
This discussion has been closed.