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2007 and newer Lincoln Navigators

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  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    Scooter comes out of the closet...
  • ...and I admit that freely...
  • Did anyone see the big Luxury SUV comparison in the October Car and Driver?
    The Navigator came in a very distant 5th out of 5.
    Ouch.
  • Not even the grate, er, grille, could hide the lack of substantial updates.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    Either they have a crash program in place already to save the first luxury SUV...or it is toast.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    Curiously, there was nary a mention of the grill by Car and Driver. They had apoplexy over the godawful interior, but simply found the exterior little short of boring. And it was interesting seeing the Gator among the group of five. It did seem to look nondescript--less flashy than the others
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    So I was able to skim this comparo at the supermarket yesterday.

    They rated the Nav last amoung Escalade (4th) Infiniti (3rd) Audi (2nd) Mercedes (1st)

    These also go roughly in the order of how much they cost. Merc over 60K, Audi close 2nd when optioned, Infinit a relative bargain, Esc overpriced.

    THey said "Fun to drive the Navigator? - Fughettaboutit." Well, none of these things is a sports car. Does anyone really buy an Escalade looking for a fun to drive vehicle? But I think they may have overlooked the Nav's advantage of IRS and it's positive effect on ride and the 3rd seat.

    OK, enuf defending it. I was really defending my 2004 Nav, which probably would have garnered more points that the 07 since the 2004 has a beautiful, modern electroluminescent instrument panel with satin aluminum accents and mahogany wood, along with the door covering the radio and/or Nav system. It all works beautifully well together and looks expensive. The 2007 OTOH has guages from a 1970s vintage Ford Granada (C&D said 1958-style guages - that went too far IMHO), blonde wood with black trim that just looks CHEAP in comparison to the 2004 interior. ANd the dash doesn't look expensive with a good fit - it looks cheap and thrown together. And where are the buttons for the information system? Or did they take that out? I'll bet they saved $100s of dollars on this new instrument panel - and it shows. I really hadn't seen many pix of the IP before - Lincoln is certainly not showing it on their web site. I just hadn't realized how truly UGLY it is. It's horribly bad. From 1st place to last - and Ford brags about the money they're spending on interior design???

    Lastly, they took off the big chrome piece above the ugly new grille which improved the looks a bit such that I would now give the front redesign a grade of 'F' rather than 'F-'. Course there's a 6inch tall piece of chrome running the length of the doors that looks ridiculous. I like ONLY the new rear treatment. Judging from some of the designers I met at PAG HQs a few years ago, I'm not surprised they wanted to make the rear end as inviting as possible.

    I predict the new Navigator will be a flop. Deservedly so I might add.

    I hate to do it but finances dictate I must soon put my 2004 up for sale unless a briefcase full of $100s falls into my lap. It is a beautiful ride. I think I'll wait one more month to list it because by then:
    - gas prices will have dropped to $2.50/gal
    - people will start thinking about ski season and a nice big 4X4 to get them there.
    and most important
    - the 2007 Navigator will be out and when folks see it, the value of a clean low-mileage 2004 should skyrocket!
  • "The 2007 OTOH has guages from a 1970s vintage Ford Granada"

    That is too funny!-- As I've said before, I kind of like the new grille.
    I showed the C&D article to my wife--- She said..."They look like the gauges in my old car."

    What did she have when we met?...A 1979 Granada!
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    HEEHEE. I remember cause my Dad had one back then.

    THIS kind of 'retro' we can all do without.
  • I'm pretty sure I saw a new Navi today (didn't know they were in the showrooms) blasting passed me on the interstate. It looked like it still had the chrome top on the grill, the part that looks like a bug catcher. I thought they got rid of that part, to tone things down some.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    Depends on the trim level.

    I don't think it is wise to tone anything down, when it is coming up against the chrome-laden Escalade.
  • True. It would have been better to match the Escalade under the hood than outside the hood, though.
  • WOW this board is dead I wonder why??? what an UGLY looking SUV inside and out. I did'nt even know they were out. The dealer I leased my 06 Navi thru emailed me today that they are available with a $5500 rebate..LOL!!! My navi has been in the shop for longer periods of time than any other car i've owned. Once my lease is up (2008..UHhhhhG) I will be moving on. Yep Really smart putting a "FORD" in charge of FORD...UGLY!!!!
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    The Cadillac has been completely refreshed three times so far.
    The Lincoln is still using the same body shell as when they were introduced 9 years ago.


    I disagree, scooter - 1: The Navigator was thoroughly "refreshed" for 03. A couple of door panels that came over is irrelevant - the truck was remodeled with an independent rear suspension and 3rd row seats unrivaled in the industry today, certainly not rivaled by Cadillac's "you pull em out and stow them somewhere" seats. The Lincoln's powerfold completely into the floor making it flat. In addition the Lincoln got a 4valve OHC engine in 00, something Cadillac hasn't yet achieved either. Technology in the Cadillac is negligable compared to Lincoln. Lincoln had cooled front seats and park assist in 02.

    Let's go over the Bruthalade for a minute. I happened to take a thorough test drive in an 07 just yesterday. GM laughed their heads off at the Navigator in 97 when it debuted as a 98 model - but the darn thing sold so they hurried and put a wreath and crest on a Denali, and sold it as a Cadillac in 00 - for one year. There were no 01's. Meantime, they were reskinning that Denali, the frame and architecture by the way on that go back to 1988. Anyway, in 02 it comes out looking hot. But still had a Chevy Truck dash and interior by and large, with some plood leather and vinyl. That, my friend is not a complete refresh, it's a reskin. It remained in that low tech condition until 07 when it was remodeled to a GMT900 platform, and admittedly, I was impressed with the new one. So, it has had one reskin and one remodel. The Navigator had a remodel, and for 07, a reskin. Sounds the same to me. The Navigator still out techs the Cadillac though.

    What did I like about the Escalade. Power from the new pushrod, old fashioned 6.2L engine. IT's a beast, alright. Much better than the 06 was. Interior, it's not unique to the Cadillac still, it's just like a Tahoe with better plood. Still a fault with the Slade. However, it's a nice one. FINALLY, GM has a touch screen Navigation (Which Ford has had since 00). It's DVD driven. Seats are great - they always were. If you get the ESV, it's nice, the regular one is still a little tight in the back. I'd buy one, frankly, it's so nice looking, if only they could figure out how to get that 3rd seat right. A full remodel is needed again, already.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Your description of the grille as "Electric Shaver" is perfect ;)
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    Say what you want. However, Ford made the mistake of doing the major changes underneath only, thinking most everyone would perceive it as you do. But sales keep slipping, whether you are talking Ranger or Taurus or the 05 and 06 Explorer differences.

    However, The Slade has had 3 complete body changes. Everything: windshield, all glass, A, B and C pillars, every single body panel and all interior pieces. Like Toyota always does when it issues a redesign.

    Is it meaningful? Depends on what you want, but the average Joe isn't going to look at a 2002 Nav and a 03 and see much more than a yearly update, even though they are significantly different underneath. The 99 and the 07 still use the same windshield, same door glass, same door panels, same A, B, C pillars (the tailgate area was altered) and essentially all the same mounting points for the few new panels. That's one reason why fewer and fewer people take notice of them.

    The 07 grill was an attempt to differentiate, but to most eyes it looks like they put a different grill on the same vehicle. It looks like the yearly updates Detroit used to do years ago on every model, between thorough re-designs. It is one of the ways Ford tried to cut corners, and now they are living with the result: even more market share loss.
  • I can't believe I'm writing this, but I went to a LM dealer and looked at the '07 Navi in the face. I kind of liked the styling.

    Now, I don't like the departure from a "Lincoln look" with the traditional waterfall grill. That's a huge mistake for the Navi and the MKX. You'd think Lincoln would have learned that, going down the road of "no one knows what a Lincoln's supposed to look like" in the 50's, but considering it on a stand-alone basis, I liked the "in your face" grill. I like the taillights. I even like the center stack. (I never understood the purpose of a lid over the radio controls. Maybe over the auto climate controls, but not the radio.) Ignoring the previous gen's classy electrolum instruments, I even liked the retro gauges.

    I'll never buy one of these behemoths, of any ilk, foreign or domestic, but if I were to, I'd seriously consider the Navi.

    There. I can't believe I wrote that.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I'm just like you, dt. I have been resentful of the new style Navigator since the first picture I saw. But seeing it in person - made me want one. Amazing....
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    I just saw one on the road today and that big bar at the top of the grille was painted body color (white, or white chocolate, whatever) and I thought it looked great - much better than the pictures.
  • Well, as the sole-defender of the 07's look, I'm waiting to see how y'all want your crow served up
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