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2013 and earlier-Honda CR-V Lease Questions

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  • john_b3john_b3 Posts: 3
    edited February 2010
    Getting a 2010 CR-V LX AWD, with a prepaid lease (unique situation, long story).

    Deal includes installed fog lights and side steps, and "sale" price works out to be $22,375 (sticker was $23,505 incl. $710 destination chg).

    Residual is 59%, money factor is .00122 (2.9%?). 15K miles/year. Works out to $12,525 ppd. out the door (would otherwise be $348/mo on payments).

    If the residual is $13,200 ($22,375 *.59) and I'm paying $12,525 out the door then the total with financing works out to $25,725?

    So what am I missing? What questions am I not asking? (What don't I know that I don't know?)

    :confuse:

    John
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,447
    The leasing company (Honda Finance) pays for the entire vehicle, upfront.. Even though you are prepaying your lease, there are finance charges.. That accounts for the difference.

    Bank pays $22375
    You give them $12525..

    So, they are still out almost $10K for the three years you are leasing.. Basically the difference is the "interest" you are paying on that money..

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • john_b3john_b3 Posts: 3
    edited February 2010
    kyfdx, no, I don't have any complaints. I'm just trying to understand the deal on the table. It actually seems fine to me, but I'm a leasing n00b and I'm being cautious that there might details that I don't know to watch for.

    What you are saying is that, on top of normal costs (registration, sales tax, etc.) associated with the sale of this vehicle, I've still got to finance the remaining approx. $13,200 for the residual (actually the $10K difference as you point out). Correct? That makes sense.

    Can you comment about what other costs I should expect at lease signing? The finance guy at the dealership told me the $12525 amount would be an out-the-door number; that's what I would need to write the check for.

    Do I need to insure this differently? Any "lease gap" coverage via Honda seems like it would nullified on account of the prepay; it wouldn't seem to be possible to get upside down on this deal. Do I ask my insurance agent about some sort of replacement cost coverage?

    Thanks again, this is a great resource.

    :)

    John
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,447
    edited February 2010
    1) I was just trying to show that their are financing costs to a lease, even a pre-paid lease.. that's why the total cost + residual add up to more than the sales price.

    2) If the salesperson says that amount is "out-the-door", then that should be it. I think Honda leases have a disposition fee at lease end, if you don't purchase the vehicle. Of course, that isn't paid until the end of the lease.

    3) Honda Finance will probably have a maximum deductible for collision.. (say $500).. but, other than that, insurance is the same..

    4) You can't be upside down.. a) early in the lease, because of the pre-pay. b) late in the lease, because all Honda leases have GAP coverage

    5) All car insurance is basically, "replacement cost coverage". If you were making a large CAP cost reduction, you might be at some risk, but pre-pay leases are pro-rated, in case of vehicle destruction or theft... So, if the car is totaled, you'll get back a pro-rated portion of your pre-pay lease, and Honda Finance's GAP coverage will cover any shortfall between the balance and the actual value.

    I think that answers most of your question...

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,803
    live on LI, NY.....making deal on '10 CRV EXLl awd , deposit needed by tomorrow....$399 monthly, 36 mo, 12k per year....dealer wants 1st mo in advance, 97 total in fees and 60 to trans. my own plates....supposedly nothing else.....will get 3 oil changes and 1 mo car washes....
    this will be my 3rd CRV.....paid the same for my 07 EX that i am turning in....
    it seems that i overpaid on my last deal, but this one appears OK...this is same dealer for my 04 ,07, and now the '10.........advice is appreciated ASAP....THANKS!

    the donald 60


    Ouch!!!

    2004 CR-V, 36 month at $400/month
    2007 CR-V, 36 months at $400/month
    2010 CR-V, 36 month at $400/month

    Over the course of 9 years, you will have paid $43,200 in lease payments and no car or equity at the end.

    Let's say you bought the 2004 CR-V for $22,000 or less (I paid $20,500 for a 2005 EX in 2005) you would have been ahead.

    Had you financed it for 60 months, it would have been paid off last year, and you could be pocketing the payments... You would have at least $10,000 in equity in the vehicle (2004 CR-V EX with 60,000 miles) still.

    Just a thought...
  • gericogerico Posts: 23
    Getting ready to lease a 2010 CR-V LX FWD for my daughter.
    Looking at a 36 month lease with 15k miles per year.
    Dealer said the current RV is 60%
    They don't want to tell me what the MF is.
    I saw a MF of .00122 in an earlier post.
    Is that still correct ?
    Is the RV correct ?
    Edmunds doesn't show any incentives.
    Are there any ?

    Thanks for the help !
  • gericogerico Posts: 23
    Now I'm being told the RV is 58%
    Dealer says 60% is for 12k/year
    They are telling me the MF is .00285
    A different dealer is telling me it's .00250
    Even that is more than double the .00122 I saw quoted last month.
    Did AHFC more than double their rate in one month ?
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Posts: 38,515
    Hi gerico. I don't believe that Honda is providing lease support on the CR-V this month. Honda Finance's current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2010 CR-V LX 2WD with 15,000 miles per year are .00260 and 58%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its top credit tier.

    Honda is not providing any cash incentives on this model right now either.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • annanycannanyc Posts: 4
    I want to lease a 2010 CRV EX-L AWD with nothing down including taxes(I live in NY) for 36 mo 12k miles. The only thing I want out of pocket is first mo payment and DMV. My friend and I will be willing to get a car each on the same day. What is a good price? I was offered $330 on 02/28/2010 at Paragon in Queens but everyone is saying that isn't possible, they are lying to you. the only reason I didn't take the deal that day is because I wanted to look into the wear and tear on my current lease.....is it too good to be true really?
  • chas0215chas0215 Posts: 40
    edited March 2010
    The $0 money down lease that you are describing should be well over $400 per month depending on the current money factor (interest rate) for the lease and your credit score. It might even be closer to $500 per month. The math simply does not add up for $330/mo. It's a cat and mouse game that some dealers play just to get you interested in buying or leasing. Unfortunately, you will never see the vehicle you want at the lease price that was quoted to you. It's just not a realistic price because of the dealer cost for the vehicle and the profit they realize, the cost of depreciation and the interest charges you have to pay each month. Be wary of such a low ball price.
  • annanycannanyc Posts: 4
    Thanks! I really didn't trust this guy and I have been getting a lot of warnings about Paragon.
  • mybuymybuy Posts: 42
    Hi, I'm in the process of turning over my 2007 Ody lease and am looking at both the 4WD Pilots and CR-Vs. I'm starting to shop/research the details so any info would be helpful. I would like a 15K/year mileage lease for a 4WD, EX-L with NAV as a minimum with possibly adding a towing package + hitch and black running boards.
    Since I'm turning in an Ody, any info on leasing another Honda would also be helpful. My lease is up in early Aug, and I'm currently 6K over my 45K lease, so it's sitting in the garage while I use my son's car. When I turned over my 2005 Ody, it was 3 mos early and about 4K over in mileage with no additional charge for the overmileage out of pocket. Thanks for any info and advice - I'm in the Cincinnati-Dayton area.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,803
    If you are a repeat mileage offender, wouldn't it make sense to just buy a vehicle and stick with it for let's say 10 years?

    5 years of payments at an attractive rate will be within $100 of the 36 month lease payment. But, you will not have payments from year 5 through 10. You can continue sending that same amount to a high yield savings account. You can also use that money to pay for whatever repairs the vehicle may need, but by year 10, you will have enough money to pay for 80% of the new vehicle....

    Rinse, repeat....

    Just a thought.
  • mybuymybuy Posts: 42
    Blue, Thanks for the thought about purchasing it, but I'm the type that likes to get a new car every few years so a lease makes more sense for me at this time.
    Best, mybuy
  • gericogerico Posts: 23
    Looking for the money factor and incentives on the current "Zero Due at Signing" deal that Honda is offering on a 2WD LX for $300/month.
  • mybuymybuy Posts: 42
    Hi. Started my shopping for a CR-V. I was looking for an EX-L 4WD with NAV for 3 yrs and 15K/yr. So far my first quote was $29,605SP with adding tax, title, registration that brought it up to $31,831. With 0 down, the monthly lease would be $505.18. Does this look like a good deal?
    How should accessories be worked into the lease terms? I had asked for a quote with a towing package and roof rack. This price included $650 in accessories, but he didn't specifically note which ones the $650 included - he was in a rush to meet a customer picking Thanks for any help. I'm in the Cincinnati-Dayton area.
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    gerico,

    The money factor and residual factor used in Honda's national lease promo for the "Zero Due at Signing" deal on the CR-V 2WD LX for $300/month are 0.00156 and 60%, respectively. As far as I know, there are no other incentives of any kind.

    John
  • gericogerico Posts: 23
    Thanks for the numbers John.
    I knew AHFC had to drop the money factor for this deal.
    I was thinking it was going to be even lower than .00156
    At that rate, it looks like the car price is only $298 over Invoice.
    MSRP is $1,191 over Invoice according to Edmunds pricing.
    Hard to imagine Honda would take $900 away from their dealers.
    Seems like Honda must be giving some dealer incentive, maybe $500 ?
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    edited March 2010
    gerico,

    I agree with you. It appears as though the profit margin is somewhat slim unless, of course, there is an "unpublished" manufacturer to dealer incentive. Profit margins on Hondas are generally robust and so this is surprising to see. As of now, there are no other "published" incentives" as far as I know.

    By the way, gerico, in case you're interested; I computed the money factor and residual factor directly from the promo ad at the AHFC website. Although not explicitly mentioned, there is enough information provided that enabled me to calculate them as follows...

    Res Factor = Res. Value / MSRP = 13,353.00 / 22,255 = 0.60

    Money Factor = [Pmt - (Net Cap - Res Val) / Term] / (Net Cap + Res Val.)

    [300 - (22,158.55 - 13,353.00) / 36] / (22,158.55 + 13,353.00) = 0.00156

    I'm not sure why AHFC ads still uses the term "Net Capitalized Cost" as this is an old Regulation M term. The latest Reg M uses the term "Adjusted Capitalized Cost" instead. I mention this only because every lease contract and model Reg M form that I've seen uses the term "adjusted" in lieu of the term "net" and some folks become confused as the two terms are often used interchangeably.

    John
  • gericogerico Posts: 23
    Thanks again John !
    I never could figure out how to get the money factor out of those ads.
    That really helps !

    I had the dealer profit wrong.
    The $300/month number I was using included sales tax.
    Without the tax, it puts the dealer profit at $595
    Even that seems low to me.
    There has to be some incentive money in there somewhere !

    I'm trying to do a deal on a 2WD LX like the national ad.
    But I want 15k/year and all dealer fees in the lease.
    For the same $300/month.
    One dealer told me $335
    Another said $325
    Going from 12k/year to 15k/year drops the residual value 2%
    That 2% works out to around $12/month
    Doc fee and tag/title fee should be under $400 here.
    That $400 adds just under $12/month
    Our tax here is 3%
    So with no extra dealer discounting, it should be $333/month
    I need Invoice pricing and dealer fees at $300 to get what I'm looking for.
    I feel certain there has to be a dealer out there willing to do that.
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    gerico,

    For whatever it's worth, I generally FAX or email the dealer a one-page lease proposal. It has saved me money, time, and aggravation. Here's an example...

    2010 Honda CR-V 2WD LX
    Lease Proposal

    Retail Pricing Information

    Base MSRP 2010Honda CR-V 2WD LX AutomaticModel RE3H3AEW… 21,545.00
    Tango Red Pearl …………………………… 0.00
    Destination Charge……………………….…………….….. 710.00
    MSRP………………………………..…………….…...…… 22,255.00

    Selling Price
    Agreed Upon Value……………………….……… 21,066.23

    Amounts Financed (Capitalized)
    AHFC AcquisitionFee……………………………………… 595.00
    Medina Sales Tax @ 6.50% x 36 x 285.41……………….. 667.86

    Capitalized Costs
    Gross Capitalized Cost…………………………….……… 22,329.09
    Capitalized Cost Reduction……………………………. 0.00
    Adjusted Capitalized Cost……………………………… 22,329.09

    Residual Data
    Residual Factor………………………….…………. 0.60
    Residual Value (Residual Factor x MSRP)…………….… 13,353.00

    Cost of Money/Term
    Money Factor…….……………………….……….…… 0.00156
    Term (months)…………………………….………… 36

    Lease Payment Itemization
    Monthly Lease Payment…….…………….…….… 305.00
    Taxable Monthly Lease Payment…………..……….. 285.41

    Estimated Charges Payable at Lease Origination
    License, Title, Registration Fees (estimated)………..…….. 125.00
    Doc Fee...................................................................... 250.00
    Amount Due at Lease Signing…………………………..…..… 375.00

    Fund Provider: AHFC
    GAP Coverage: Included
    Annual Mileage Allowance: 12k
    Disposition Fee: None
    Excess Mileage Charge: $0.15 per mile
    Reg. M Disclosure: NA

    I did my homewok by getting the invoice price, msrp, incentives, etc. This is an Ohio lease where tax is computed on the total taxable payments due at lease inception. I'm always fair but firm which has always worked for me. I think the residual factor for a 15K lease is 58%. The money factor should remain the same at 0.00156.

    John
  • gericogerico Posts: 23
    Nice breakdown.
    Thanks !
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Posts: 38,515
    edited April 2010
    Hi gerico. I believe that Honda Finance's zero due at signing money factor for a 36 month lease of a 2010 CR-V is currently .00156 for consumers who qualify for its top aka "Super Preferred" credit tier.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • djayddjayd Posts: 1
    April CR-V EX Lease
    Looking for April lease Residual and MF numbers.
    Looking for a $0 down lease with 12,000 miles for 36 months.
    Thanks! I love these forums.
  • jsdilopsjsdilops Posts: 47
    Rick Case Honda, Weston, FL, is offering the same factory deal, on exactly the same model (2010 CR-V LX 2wd), but for 279/m.
    E.g. 0 due at signing, 0 first month, 36 months 12k, 279+tax, excludes tag+lic.

    Seems like the price on this deal is 20568.70, 198 below invoice, a bit low for guys like Rick Case, still trying to figure out where is the catch.

    Any clues?
    There must be at least a 1k incentive on this model.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Posts: 38,515
    I'm glad that you enjoy the forums so much, djayd. According to the latest information that I have seen, Honda Finance's current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2010 CR-V EX 4WD with 12,000 miles per year are .00156 and 61%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its top aka "Super Preferred" credit tier.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • harry70harry70 Posts: 5
    edited April 2010
    Did you purchase? If not, are you still considering CR-V? If you don't mind, please summarize your unique situation. If you did buy, please give us the financial specifics. Thanks!

    I ran some numbers, but couldn't make sense with the information given. Something just isn't right. An LX lease goes for well under $300/mo. I've recently seen $279/mo with zero down and $249/mo with nominal down. The $300/mo should get you into EX price range.

    Were you correct with the $13,200 ($22,375 *.59) residual? I think it's usually off the MSRP and that would come to $13,868, further DECREASING the monthly payment.

    If you prepay everything, you should further cut your interest cost. I only get $8500 capital reduction and a little over $1000 interest for the residual. There's nearly $3000 difference from what you're listing. If you can figure out what's wrong, post it here.

    One thing that might account for some of that difference may be tax. What is your state and tax rate?
  • roflkittensroflkittens Posts: 6
    edited April 2010
    Hello Car_man and Delta!

    Delta, I appreciate all the help you have given others here and I particularly like your methodology of faxing detailed listings to dealers.

    I'm trying to Lease either a CR-V or a Pilot ('11) depending. I am hoping to get your help on what you think I should be sending in to a NYC (5 boroughs) dealership for these two vehicles.

    All I have so far is a pretty good internet price emailed to me on a Pilot LX 4WD for $26,863 and a verbal offer at the dealer on a CR-V LX 4WD for $22,505.

    When it came to the financial numbers I only have a CR-V breakdown and its crude from memory.

    2010 Honda CR-V LX 4WD
    Cap Cost (or Net Capitalized Cost): $22,505 (way too high IMO)
    Tax: $ 973.03 (tax on tax is legal here)
    idk: $29.50
    acq: $595.00

    residual %: $61% ( ? )
    residual: $14,338.50 (the buy back price after depreciation?)
    money factor: ( ? )

    Monthly Payments: $288.00

    total due at signing a 0 down lease $2,148.55. First month, tax, acq and some other $29 fee (I don't know)....Does NOT add up to $2,148.55 but rather $1885.00.

    I swear I heard him say 60 or 61% residual which seemed high, but I can't figure out what the money factor or the residual is based on the residual amount he gave me. ($14,338.50).

    Can you help me with the equations and perhaps help me to draw up a better deal so I can create my own Fax sheet?

    What do you think I should be sending to dealers in my area for a 2010 CR-V LX 4WD and a 2011 Pilot LX 4WD.

    Thank you so much in advance gentlemen.
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    edited April 2010
    roflkittens,

    Since you provided info on the CR-V and this is a CR-V forum, let's work on the CR-V first if you don't mind. If you can find out the money factor and residual factor for the CR-V LX 4WD for 36 months/12K, I'll be glad to run the numbers for you. The best way to secure this information is to ask your dealer to FAX/email you a copy of their Lease Worksheet as it contains all relevant information including, MF, residual, MSRP, fees, your NY sales tax rate, etc. There is absolutely no reason in the world for them not to give it to you.

    For now, don't be concerned about the selling price. All I want right now is the MF, residual, sales tax rate, miscellaneous fees, etc. We'll nail down the details (e.g., sell price) and confirm their data (MF, etc) later. I just need a good starting point as a first cut.

    The same info would be helpful for the Pilot as well. You can email them to me at diffeq@zoominternet.net

    John
  • John,

    Thanks for your quick reply.

    I will call the dealer as soon as they open and email you the info you've requested as soon as I get it.
This discussion has been closed.