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2013 and earlier-Honda CR-V Lease Questions

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  • gillbgillb Posts: 30
    Hi Everyone....getting ready to purchase my third CRV. I have a lease question that I'm always confused about.

    Advice has always been not to be drawn in by the "how much would you like to pay per month" tactic and negotiate the monthly lease cost but rather to negotiate the price of the car and then have the lease cost determined by that number.

    My confusion comes in when there is a Honda Finance lease special which might specify dollars or no dollars down, interest rate and specific monthly cost. So now what do you do? Does the actual purchase price of the vehicle matter and if so why? Is there a scenario where I can actual beat a Honda Finance lease special by negotiating a lower price on the car?
  • 2014 EXL AWD
    The best I've found in NJ is:
    $700 at signing.
    $350/month x 35 months
    (both figures include all taxes / fees)
    Sound like a good deal?
  • I'm in Massachusetts with a high (780) credit score. I'm a total newbie to leases and interested in leasing a 2014 CR-V LX AWD. The local Boston dealers haven't been able to match the price from Weymouth Honda, which is exactly what was given by their lease calculator here:
    http://www.weymouthhonda.com/lease

    Before I pull the trigger, I thought it would be good to see what folks here think about the lease terms. Here's what I'm being offered:

    2014 CR-V LX AWD
    $25,025 MSRP
    $23,522 Net cap cost
    $800 Down payment
    0.00127 Money factor
    36 months lease term
    $249/mo Monthly payment

    With MA 6.25% tax, this adds up to:
    $1479 at signing (down payment, fees, first month's payment)
    $264/mo

    I've been told that the only real variable here is the net cap cost (ie. negotiated price of the car). Please let me know how this deal looks to you experts out there... or, if it doesn't look great, what would a good deal look like? Thank you for your help!
  • gillbgillb Posts: 30
    I'm no expert but it looks pretty much like the American Honda Finance Lease Special. I can tell you that I just turned in a 2010 CRV-EX that was on a three year lease and had absolutely no problems with Honda. They are professional and reasonable and the terms are the terms. What's especially nice is their $1500 "forgiveness money" I can't remember what they actually call it. Its on the back of the lease agreement.

    Closed end lease for 2014 CR-V 5 Speed Automatic AWD LX (RM4H3EEW) available from September 27, 2013 through November 4, 2013, to well-qualified lessees approved by Honda Financial Services. Not all lessees will qualify. Higher lease rates apply for lessees with lower credit ratings. MSRP $25,025.00 (includes destination, excludes tax, license, title, registration, documentation fees, options, insurance and the like). Actual net capitalized cost $23,187.61. Net capitalized cost includes $595 acquisition fee. Dealer contribution may vary and could affect actual lease payment. Total monthly payments $8,964.00. Option to purchase at lease end $16,016.00. Must take new retail delivery on vehicle from dealer stock by November 4, 2013. Lessee responsible for maintenance, excessive wear/tear and 15¢/mile over 12,000 miles/year for vehicles with MSRP less than $30,000, and 20¢/mile over 12,000 miles/year for vehicles with MSRP of $30,000 or more. See your Honda dealer for complete details.
  • Thanks Gillb. That's helpful to hear.... sounds like it's no special deal but not a bad deal either. Anyone else have any thoughts on these lease terms from Weymouth Honda?
  • It seems like the Honda dealers are really sticking to the Honda website deals. I test-drove the same vehicle you're looking at and the sales person literally pulled up the website to show me a quote. I won't be ready to buy for probably another 2 months so I really didn't push. I requested another quote via email from a dealer and again got the deal from the website.

    My advice would be to get other dealers involved and try to get them to compete for your business. See if you can get someone to knock off a few hundred bucks off sales price. Truecar.com says invoice for that vehicle is $23,554 so they're supposedly selling it close to invoice assuming there are no rebates/incentives thrown in. I get the impression that it's such as a popular car that the Honda dealers just don't feel a need to discount it much but funny things happen when you add competition to a market.
  • gillbgillb Posts: 30
    Hi All....would sure appreciate latest information on a 36 month, 12,000 mile per year lease in the state of Florida. My credit rating is at the top of the rankings.

    Thanks
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,733
    2014 CRV EX 2WD (?) 36mo, 12K/yr lease
    .00083 MF and 60% residual

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • gillbgillb Posts: 30
    Thanks so much!
  • mixremixre Posts: 2
    Hey everyone, great info thanks in advance.

    Does anyone have #'s on a lease they've gotten for a 2014 CRV EX in NY they could share? (650 credit score so not top tier)

    Looking for 3yr 36k, really just trying to stay around or ideally under $300 for the payment so I wanted to hear of similar experiences. I'm not particularly nit-picky about getting a stellar deal I just want the car already, and I know I'm not supposed to go into the dealer with that attitude :)

    Thanks!
  • Here's the deal I just got this past weekend... hopefully this helps someone... I learned a lot by reading this forum.

    Dealer in Boston (in the city proper)
    45K miles / 36 mo lease
    $1200 down (including ALL fees and taxes.... which means the actual "down payment" was more like $600 since there are a bunch of fees)
    $232/mo including ALL taxes
    .00083 MF, 61% residual

    I think it's a solid deal based on what I've seen. I really encourage everyone to get several offers from different dealers and then ask your favorite/closest dealer to match it. Worked for me.
  • mixremixre Posts: 2
    Thanks for the numbers! Does sound like a good deal.

    What made you go LX over EX?
  • gillbgillb Posts: 30
    That does sound like a great deal especially for 15,000 miles per year. I think I've been too focused on the FWD EX, I think I'm going to take a closer look at the LX.

    Of course all the lease specials change after Dec 2 so its difficult to know what the offers will be like in December.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,697
    The residual is set in stone and that is what you WILL pay if you want to buy the car at lease end.

    How would you like it if they were to decide that the car is worth MORE than the residual (highly possible) and they decided to RAISE the residual when you want to buy the car?

    Same difference.
  • gillbgillb Posts: 30
    That's really not a problem because you can sell the car on your own at the end of the lease, payoff the leasing company and pocket that extra money if the car is worth more then projected. I've done this twice. It involves a little bit of managing the logistics of paying off the lease and getting a solid commitment from the buyer until you get the title and can transfer the ownership of the vehicle. But it is doable,
  • lnylny Posts: 7
    I asked a legitimate question. Your ridiculous response tells me two things...you are an arrogant salesman and you have absolutely no idea what Honda Financial does with lease returns. Three years ago I purchased from Honda Financial a leased vehicle for $1000 BELOW the residual on my lease.
    My question was simply to find out if anyone had a similar experience recently. With an attitude like yours, no wonder more and more people purchase online and avoid dealing with smug know it all car jockeys.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,697
    Yes, it's doable but a real hassle at the same time.

    You would have to pay off the residual, wait for the title and find a buyer.

    There would have to be a HUGE gap between the residual and the actual value to make this worth the trouble.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,697
    I retired three years ago so you can cool your heels.

    I thought you were asking if residuals were negotiable and they are not.

    And, since my title was Fleet and Leasing Manager, I think I do know a bit about how things work. not arrogance on my part, just reality.

    Lease returns normally go to auction. It is not uncommon for them to bring more or less than the residuals at auction. Honda has, in the past, set residuals too high. This, of course, sells (leases) cars because of attractive low payments but at lease end, they have to pay the piper and eat the differences. I remember a few years ago, some Jeeps were going for 4-5000 less than the residuals at auction.

    Setting residuals is tough. Set them too low and it'll blow up the payments. Set them too high and three years down the road there is a deficit to eat.

    I thought you were asking if a person can attempt to get Honda to lower the residuals at lease end. The answer to that is no. That would really open up a can of worms if they were to do that.

    If they have recently changed their position on this, it's news to me.
  • gillbgillb Posts: 30
    edited November 2013
    Hi iselldondas....if you don't mind me taking you on a little tangent. I'm suffering over whether I should be cross shopping vehicles that I like or strictly cross shopping lease deals for a purchase next month. I like the Mazda CX-5, I just turned in a 2010 Honda CRV which was a perfect car so I'm comfortable with CRVs, I haven't driven the Acura ILX though they have one big attraction which is a zero down, zero first month, $270 month x35 payment lease special and then there's the 2013/2014 Honda Accord which I find a bit too big but seems to have the widest variety of lease specials at least for November, I don't know what December will be like.
    I understand that the Money Factor and Residuals are set. Most people on this forum say you should definitely negotiate the the vehicle price (cap cost). What confuses me is whether within a lease special that states the MF, Residual and Cap Cost you can really still negotiate that one element of the deal. In the case of the Acura ILX for instance even though the lease deal overall is attractive on this slow selling model the Cap Cost in the lease special is probably $1000 or more higher then what people are really paying for the vehicle.
    And related to the above and your post. At the end of the 3 years if you have a vehicle with a Residual that has been artificially boosted by the manufacturer and a vehicle with a lower Cap Cost through your own negotiation who takes the hit? American Honda Finance, Honda or the dealer because they accepted a reduced selling price?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,697
    Trying to be objective here.

    I like the Mazda CX-5 but they have nowhere near the resale values of a CRV.

    CRV's are great cars to lease because of this. A high resale value allows residuals to be set high and create lower payments.

    Yes, cap costs are negotiable but be aware that a lot of the nationally advertised deals don't leave a lot of profit.

    I have no idea what an Acura ILX even is. I do know that Acura has introduced some models recently that have been poor sellers. Great cars that just aren't in much of a demand. Still, if one of these Acuras appeals to you, there may be some great deals available.

    The residuals are what they are set at and the cap costs have nothing to do with this. Their goal is to set residuals for what the cars will bring at auction at lease end.

    We currently have two CRV's in our garage and we have owned two others. Just great cars that seem to do most things quite well.

    Still, there are other choices and other great cars out there.

    Good luck!
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,589
    The resale value of the CRV make it almost a "no brainer" in the class. Yes there are vehicles in the segment that drive better, have more features, are faster, flashier, but none have anywhere near the resale value of the CRV.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • gillbgillb Posts: 30
    edited November 2013
    Mazda doesn't have its own finance arm, Chase handles that for them. So Mazda Residuals tend to be in the 53%-55% range while the Honda CRV either because of market sentiment or American Honda Finance tend to have residuals in the 59%-61% range. And its easy to see the difference that makes in the monthly lease cost.
    So, from your posts it seems your suggestion is, yeah go ahead and try to negotiate a lower selling price but there is not a lot there for the dealer to play with.

    The Acura ILX is the result of.... what has been....7-10 years of an identity crises over at Acura corporate. I don't know how those people lost there way for so long. What's so hard to figure about near luxury with a touch of performance at a good price point? The ILX is a reworked Civic, much more attractive in my opinion, which they try to charge a $4,000-$7,000 premium for. It's some Brand Managers fantasy which no one else seems to share, however it does create an opportunity. I haven't driven the car but if my priority turns out to be lowest total lease cost over 3 years and I can live with and enjoy the vehicle its the best deal around right now.
  • sky27sky27 Posts: 5
    Hi all, hope someone can help me.

    We got 36 month lease on a 2014 CRV LX 2WD for:
    $1000 out of pocket includes 1st payment, title, registration, doc fee
    $260/month including 9% LA county tax
    .0008 MF
    62% residual for 12K miles

    We drove the car home then I found on the lease agreement they added $495 for alarm/security system. The dealer never told about this as additional. We thought (we did ask) it is included in the agreed sale price.

    My question is, can we ask dealer to cancel / deactivate this? I chose this dealer because they could beat other quote we got. With extra $495, I feel like they are fooling us. Gave you $500 off but added $495.
  • gillbgillb Posts: 30
    The lease deal itself looks pretty good even with their bit of deception. What I'm curious about is how they slipped it in without you noticing it? Was a case of them being able to hide the item and cost so effectively that you didn't see it or did they give you a verbal assurance which kind of lulled you into being too complacent and thus not scrutinizing every number on the lease and its source?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,697
    I would return to that store and simply let them know that you have no interest in a security system and that you didn't appreciate them not telling you about it or at least giving you the option.

    It is probably of very little value I would think.
  • sky27sky27 Posts: 5
    It was on the lease agreement. I did ask the finance what was that for. She said it was included in the price. So I thought it was just a price breakdown. Only after I got home, I had time to recalculate and found out it was additional.
    I found out because I compared it with the other quote I had from the other dealer. It was $21640 sale price and with $1000 down, my monthly would be $226. With tax, that would be around $250. So I thought, how could with $21150, I am having the same monthly payment with $21640. Then I recalculated everything on the lease agreement and found out that the $495 was added.
    Well, if only I was more careful before left the dealer.

    I know the deal was pretty good. And we got free 3 years oil change too (up tp 2 times/year).
    But I just feel they cheated.
  • sky27sky27 Posts: 5
    We did call the sales person today and he was apologetic. He said he didn't know that the finance added the alarm in the lease agreement. Hmm..... seriously??
    What happened was, with the sales, we agreed on the price of $21150 (after $500 honda flex cash) and he asked how much down I would put. I said $1000 and he went to finance and came back with $250net / month. He explained that the money factor was 0.0008 (so 1.9% interest rate which is good). After that, we didn't ask much because we thought the monthly is fixed based on the agreed sale price, residual and money factor. But then we were sent to the finance and it was then when we were careless and did not really check each price listed. I saw the $495 and $595 after $21150. She said the $495 was included and the $595 was the acquisition fee (which we couldn't do nothing about). She also said that we already had dealed price and she was just adding the ding shield fee (we did agree on this additional fee for ding shield). But she mentioned nothing about the alarm was optional.

    Well, the sales said he would talk to the finance tomorrow, but like you said, it is probably of very little value, since we did sign the agreement.
  • gillbgillb Posts: 30
    edited November 2013
    If it were me, and I've done this before on a non-auto related problem that was resolved in my favor....I would find out who the owner of the dealership is and send him a fax or drop off a letter and let him know that while you have posted your experience on Edmunds.com you've refrained from mentioning the dealers name in the hope that this can be resolved easily and quickly. And then I would suggest that if the dealership would like to make this issue a lose/lose for everybody then your more then willing to accommodate them on that. And end with...that you hope they make a sensible business decision for all involved.
    If the owner is anything but an idiot I think they'll take care of the problem.
  • Seems to straddle fraud. In any case, this simply demonstrates why the friendly face in the F&I office is not the buyer's friend. This is one reason the Government is investigating the automobile finance industry practices.

    It will be difficult to recover since you have a signed agreement with everything clearly presented. The best thing you can probably do is to post the name of the dealer on Edmunds as well as making a couple of ratings on line.

    The alarm system was likely installed on the vehicle when you bought it. Dealers often install such products on all their vehicles before they put them up for sale. The actual cost of the alarm system is not significant and they believe enough people will buy the overpriced product to offset the cost of installation and the actual product on those vehicles sold to customers who do not buy the overpriced alarm system. This dealer most likely simply activated the system once you paid the $495.

    You should be able to cancel the alarm system coverage, either with the dealer or with the alarm system company. Of course, you will not likely see the $495 as they would most likely just reduce the amount owed on the loan, reducing your total payments. Best to talk to the sales person first, then speak with the sales manager and finally the general manager. Not likely the owner will speak with you, even if you could actually locate the owner.

    Do not believe the salesperson if he or she tells you they did not know about this. All parts of the dealership work in concert to complete a sale. The F&I person almost always discusses each sale with the sales person to ascertain the best approach for them to sell as much product to the customer when the customer enters the F&I box. F&I managers are the dealership's best sales person. They are trained constantly in how to manipulate a sale to maximize the back end, F&I, profit for the dealership. As always, the best word to use in the F&I office is NO.
  • sky27sky27 Posts: 5
    Yeah... I will try to talk to the salesperson again to see what options do we have. Or I am planning to go back there and talk directly to the sales manager. I hate to post negative reviews without giving them chances to solve the issue. We'll see.

    Thanks for all the responses.
This discussion has been closed.