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Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?

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  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    My wife drove an Expedition for 5 years and I assure you there was no "bling" involved. It was simply a large comfortable vehicle with lots of room that was very useful for hauling things and people.

    I'm sure there are more fuel efficient alternatives to whatever vehicle you're driving today. Wouldn't the same argument apply to you?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    All Lincoln can afford right now is updated unique sheetmetal, better interiors, more luxury doo-dads and ecoboost engines. And possibly a new smaller vehicle on a shared platform. They'll have to get by for a couple more years until Ford finishes rebuilding the core brand. Then they can start looking at new platforms, etc.
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    Agreed. Though Ford hasn't taken any bailout monies the fact remains they are financed up to the hilt so they still have to watch their pennies. So the new / refurbed vehicles are still some time away. Totally agree on Caddy - CTS is really the only one keeping them up, not feeling the coupe though, the wagon I'm mixed on but like it better than the SRX (haven't looked at the new one).

    But honestly I can't get past the mentality of "this is nothing but a rehashed & badged Ford / Mazda 'fill in the blank'". And haven't gotten into all the "Mark-*" / Mmm-Kay" alphabet-soup nomenclature. I would rather they go back to real names when new models are brought into the fold. But I still believe there is an actual need for a proper RWD / V8 (at least EB V6) vehicle in their stable in order to be competitive and be in the price-points they want to be in. but again, I see this as being many years down the line.
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    Not really. Considering how I use my daily driver, its city mileage, which is quite good considering what it's rated at, upkeep cost, somewhat ease of repair, no. And I'm in to the old iron, not the new fantastic-plastics.

    I look at more than fuel efficiency when purchasing a vehicle - this is where being a car nut REALLY comes in handy. I think about how I'm actually going to use the vehicle as well as its quality, robustness, repairability, CTO, mileage...the list goes on and on. I was actually told by many friends, family and coworkers I should have bought a larger truck / SUV, I needed to have that larger truck / SUV, how better it was to have the larger truck / SUV, blah, blah, blah. Most of them have either gotten rid of theirs, it's sitting in the driveway / garage & they're now driving a crap-box or trying to figure out how to unload them while crying every time petrol prices increase.

    My point was and still is, a large number of people bought those size and types of vehicles just because they were the "it" vehicle, to show off, to not be stuck with the soccer mom / dad minivan tag but then tried to pass off the purchase as "needing" the vehicle. Again, nothing wrong with them & buy what you like, but be real about why you purchased it.

    If you and your wife actually used the Nav's space and hauling capabilities, man, I salute both of you - you're a rare breed indeed.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    a large number of people bought those size and types of vehicles just because they were the "it" vehicle, to show off, to not be stuck with the soccer mom / dad minivan tag

    Right - because your run of the mill Expedition/Suburban/Tahoe is such an "it" vehicle. :confuse:

    Most people buy SUVs/CUVs over minivans because they simply hate minivan styling and wouldn't own one to begin with. They like the high seating position and styling of the SUVs and they see all their friends driving them and they think "Hey - those must be useful vehicles". Getting rid of them just because gas prices went up temporarily was just a knee jerk reaction that happened across the board. That just means they were living beyond their means to begin with.

    The same can be said of V8 mustangs - does anyone really NEED a V8? Of course not. I'd even go so far as to say that most V8 mustang drivers don't ever use the extra hp. Does that make them show-offs or posers? Or is it that they just like the way it sounds or the way it drives?

    All I'm saying is don't make assumptions about other people's motivations.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,347
    they just like the way it sounds & the reserved cushion of torque when desired.

    Buying a Mustang V6 is like getting married without a honeymoon. ;)
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    wow, hit a nerve did I?

    Right - because your run of the mill Expedition/Suburban/Tahoe is such an "it" vehicle

    Yes, as most bought them due to marketing hype, falling into the "gotta have it & bigger is better" and as most started loading them up with wheels, screens and systems, which the OEMs started doing as well correct? Which by the way, started defeating the purpose of having a large vehicle which sole purpose was to carry large loads and large amounts of people right? And I thought we were talking about the Nav, since this is a Lincoln-inspired forum (though this also applied to other makes / models)? :confuse:

    And I didn't make the assumptions. As stated I actually talked to the people and that's what they told me - so how is that making assumptions? I just asked them why they bought it, one of the biggest responses was "Look at it -isn't it the best?, next to "Did you see it in so-n-so's video or MTV Cribs / ESPN / VH1 / So-N-So car show episode?". 90 percent of the people I've talked to have said that, finally admitting to that after they said, of course:

    they needed it, but couldn't tell me why they needed it, just that they needed it

    it's soooooo safe - for them of course after they plowed into someone, which some of them did because they were running their mouth on the celly, or doing something else stupid while driving. And no, I'm not saying people who drive SUVs are stupid, or only stupid drivers talk on cell phones while driving. One of the worse was a woman who wrecked her 2008 Tahoe right in front of work last month, trying to cut across 3 lanes of traffic, while doing 60 (in a 40mph zone). Basically yanked the wheel, that whole physics thing took over, and that's all she wrote. She was a little scratched up, the truck rolled a couple times.

    safer and great in winter, yet they slip and slide just as much as any other vehicle, sometimes more as there is more mass to the vehicle and again, that whole momentum thing in physics. I saw them doing 360s just as much as smaller vehicles when we had the multiple freezes this past winter and before. They're actually more dangerous because most have this false sense of safety and drive more reckless / careless.

    it's so spacious and can haul a lot of stuff - most never went to home Depot, Lowes or any type of hardware store, don't have a trailer hitch or anything that uses a hitch - so what were they hauling around besides their behind - nothing. Also never put anything it the back of it - don't know how to remove the seats. This line was usually used when talking about going on vacation - but wait, they took a plane and then rented a car?

    they can carry a lot of people - they were single or married and was only the two of them or them a one small child. That diaper bag and stroller must triple in size when they got put into vehicles. And they must've hauled those people around when I was sleeping. This too was tied to the "great for vacation line".

    And this is not just people I know, but people I've talked to at the car media events, car / truck shows, people I meet at industry events, the trade shows, coworkers, friends of people I know, folks on shows I've watched. For the last time, not saying there is anything wrong with buying those types of vehicles, or performance vehicles or any type of vehicle for that manner, just don't give a load of an answer when asked why you bought it.

    Well, I'm off to Lowes to get some bags of quickrete and other things. No seriously, I am.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    As stated I actually talked to the people and that's what they told me - so how is that making assumptions?

    Don't you think that's a rather small sample size compared to the millions of SUVs sold over the last 10-15 years?

    90 percent of the people I've talked to have said that

    And I know just as many people who drive large SUVs who DON'T say that.

    Now if you're just talking about blinged up vehicles with huge wheels and that type of stuff then I would be more inclined to agree with you. But my comment that started all this was about SUVs in general, not specifically about Escalades and Navigators.

    I'll be sure to ask for your approval before I buy my next vehicle.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,347
    We joined the common sense crowd of skiers by driving Ford station wagons from 1967 to 1980. There was room for our family and our kids friends totaling 6 of us.

    Had the SUV or mini van been available, I would have still chosen the station wagon over the other choices. After the kids entered college, we joined the Town Car crowd. Fond memories of the '67 Country Sedan include a 390 4v with dual glass packs. First tracks at White Pass were frequent. :)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    we have had a few suv's over the years.
    i grew up with rwd and still prefer it.
    people like me will pass on and maybe that preference will go too.
    not my kids, though. they love that v8 rwd feeling.
    if they have to compromise, that will be their decision.
    i drove a focus stick for 4 years and for the most part i enjoyed it, but when i had to drive in snow, i hated it.
    i replaced it with a fusion awd, which has less of that fwd feel, although the steering is too light for my taste.
    i still like it, but i would like it better if it had that 3.4 v8 from the last gen SHO. :)
    the explorer has been passed on to another kid, but i still enjoy driving it.
    our family has many great memories over the years going places and more will still happen.
    one more thing. i wanted my lincoln when i turned 50, and so did my wife when it was her turn. we just haven't quite make it work, yet.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,676
    SUVs is the matter of safety and protection...I think women feel safer in an elevated vehicle, so when approached by some homeless slob in a parking lot who hasn't bathed in a month, they feel safer than if they were sitting in a Corvette three inches off the ground...plus you can easier hide a 357 magnum while inside the SUV, whereas such would be difficult in a Vette...

    Also, I would feel safer in a collision if I had the SUV and the other driver had the Miata, rather than the other way around...carry capacity for Home Depot is simply a bonus...all this worked really well when gas was under 2 bucks a gallon...
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    Not really - I figure my personal sample size is probably a thousand give or take, I know and talk to a quite a bit of people about cars, trucks and UVs. And this does not include the responses back from surveys my company has sent out, I mean, we do supply components to the industry, as well as heavy truck; some do drive UVs and the like. Should I email this list of people I know, have met and continue to meet (may take a little bit but is doable)?

    May I ask how many have you sampled in that time frame?

    And no, just not talking about the blingy-bling. And to repeat yet again, which by the way is kind of a grind, just because you and your wife got your Nav due to it's size, ability to swallow large loads or number of people and actually used it's size and ability doesn't mean everyone else who bought one, or a vehicle like it, did so for the same. Myself and others here are telling you that's simply not true, and as usual, you got your britches in a bunch because people disagreed. And in terms of an "it" vehicle, isn't the CUV the "it" vehicle now, just as the full-size trucks / SUVs were (as well as the extra-large versions), just as the Explorer-size SUVs were, the minivans before that, the station wagons before that... and other vehicles in other classes? Each class of vehicle has / had an "it" vehicle, a vehicle folks wanted that may have met all their needs, some of their needs, maybe none of their needs, but that vehicle was the thing to have at the time. And sorry again, was just trying to keep it Lincoln, you know, stay with the theme of the topic, but you brought up Expedition (which the Nav is) and Suburban / Tahoe in a previous response so I included all as well.

    In terms of giving you approval, I really could give a fu-man-chu what you like, buy, drive, rent, whatever. As long as you're happy with your purchase I'm ecstatic - I'm not making your payment nor loaning you the money to buy it, why should I care or give approval? :confuse:

    You're trying to accuse me of making assumptions, which in the end is something you're doing. Usually the back and forth discussions are pretty good but this has gotten to be really boring and way off-topic of the forum - you can respond if you like but I'm moving on. Happy hunting ;)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    I'm not the one making derogatory assertions about other people's motivations and intentions.

    George Carlin said "Anyone who drives slower than me is an idiot. Anyone who drives faster than me is a maniac." I think the same analogy applies here.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,676
    Except that I think Carlin used terms a little more colorful than "idiot" and "maniac"... ;)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    I'm pretty sure those were the words he used - I think he just added some adjectives in front of them.......
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,312
    that the old "I Hate SUVs - What's Your Excuse" (or some such) board is still alive in the hearts of many. It got pretty lively too.

    There are those who need enclosed trucks and those who want to drive the trendy vehicle of the day -- I'd go with about a 1 to 5 ratio.

    Station wagons came and went, minivans came and went, SUVs came and it looks like they might have, well, gone.

    Time will tell.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,676
    So, the question remains...what do folks in the future use to transport familes with 3 children, or 1 child plus 2 in-laws, Fido, and luggage for 5(assuming Mom & Dad occupy the front seats)...the 60s had station wagons, SUVs and minivans are dead...do they use Mini-Coopers with U-Haul trailers behind them???...are the trailers equipped with heat and A/C???
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,312
    I think the full-size SUV will stick around, much as it did before it became trendy. The Chev Suburban was called a Mormon Cadillac in my part of the world for 40 years for a reason -- at one time it was the only thing that made sense if there were six kids in the family.

    That 5:1 ratio I referred to earlier means that ~85% of the market may well go away, but the folks who always needed them will probably still be able to get them. Minivans are still available, and God knows they were never trendy & have been shunned by a large fraction of the auto-buying public for the past 10-15 years -- I think they were okay for the first few years before they developed the dreaded "suburban drone" image. Station wagons too, but to a lesser extent -- in Europe they're all over the place.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,676
    Allow me to followup...if 85% of the market goes away, then everyone else is fighting over 15% of the market...is there enough demand to keep making them, esp when gas gets back to $4.00 a gallon???
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    Sure, but there won't be enough volume to justify a dedicated or one-off platform like the current Expedition. It will most certainly end up being a virtual F150 super crew clone with an enclosed rear and 3rd row seats. Front end, interior and powertrains will all be shared. This will make them viable even at low volumes.
  • bigo08bigo08 Posts: 102
    Lincoln has surprised me with all of their current offerings..

    I see Lincoln moving upmarket, as soon we get a proper RWD Lincoln flagship :shades:
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    As reported in other topics, the rumor is that Lincoln will get a 450 hp coupe or sedan built off of the Falcon platform (RWD). I expected to see it at the Detroit auto show but it wasn't there. Maybe New York or Chicago.
  • toomanyfumestoomanyfumes S.E. Wisconsin Posts: 905
    That sounds cool. Can't wait to see that. :shades:
  • Rumor here is is that Ford will trade Volvo to Volkswagen for Bentley. So Lincoln will have a performance coupe derived from the Continental GT to better compete with Cadillac and the high end imports. I thought that a Chinese co wanted to purchase Volvo. Who knows?
  • Geeley already bought Volvo just waiting to complete the paperwork and accounting.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    That's what I thought but didn't say anything in case I missed something.
  • It figures .Too good to be true. Oh well.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,347
    Is it reasonable to expect a brand new Town Car design soon? Anybody know of subcontractors making new parts for a new TC? Glass providers and dash board manufacturers - could they not provide a hint?

    Getting close to buying something, but right now it won't be a warmed over '98.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    TC is a dead man walking. They've already announced the plant shutdown in another year or two. Whatever is available now is all you're going to get - and you better get it soon.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,333
    Just treat yourself and buy the Jag...you know you want it :P
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