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Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?

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Comments

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,228
    Did I see that picture correctly? It looks to me as though the Dear Leader's hearse is a stretched Lincoln Town Car.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,901
    Yes you did. It's the same one that carried his father's body back in the early 90's.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,228
    edited December 2011
    It must be a really low mileage Lincoln, if it's only used for funerals of Great Leaders and Dear Leaders. I wonder how much it would be worth at a free world auction.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,196
    edited December 2011
    image

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    I'm wondering how the heck North Korea got them in the first place. Haven't we had a trade embargo with them since the Korean War?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Great question - they look like about circa 1975 models. Maybe the French sold them to them.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,196
    image

    Dig those funky chrome headlamp doors and circa 1982 fog lamps! I guess "Dear Leader" wasn't above tacky aftermarket auto accessories!
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,901
    I'm wondering how the heck North Korea got them in the first place. Haven't we had a trade embargo with them since the Korean War?

    Probably ebay motors from a BHPH lot in Georgia (not the southern one, the one in Soviet Russia).
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,952
    Still has more class than a Maybach.

    Nice mirrors, too.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,234
    Sadly, this is not a good thing for Lincoln, but kind of tells the story since the Communist countries are known for their VIP Ziv's and Lincoln has become just about as irrellevant in the auto business.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,196
    edited December 2011
    You mean the ZIL?

    image

    The Soviets were better off copying old Packards than coming up with their own designs.

    image

    I like this one much better!
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    They look like Nixon/Ford's fleet of Presidential Limos, maybe Carter sold them to the North Koreans in exchange for ....... well, never mind.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,234
    You mean the ZIL?

    Yeah, you're right. But don't you think Ziv sounds more Rusky - just kidding! I enjoyed those pictures, but maybe that newer one is a cross between a stolen Mercedes and a stolen Toyota Cressida? Comparing those two pictures also shows how sometimes older styling is more classic than starker new design concepts regardless of country.
  • Packard copycat shown on photo is ZIL-111. Another Packard copy was GAZ-14 Chaika http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaika_(car) - available to lower level bureaucrats and ZIS from 30s-40s. After copying Packard in 30s-50s Soviets started to copy Lincolns in 60s-70s - both ZIL and GAZ.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,952
    You should see the inside of that 70s design ZIL - blatant copy of a MB W116 steering wheel, and were even available with nearly identical upholstery.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,422
    edited December 2011
    That 75 Lincoln was ugly and ungainly back then, and continues to be so now that it is decades old. It fits with the Soviet era limos well. What they were thinking when they went from the 1972 more graceful roofline and rear door cutout to the square back door window, a la AMC Ambassador, with an oval opera window plunked in the big space this created in what had previously been a Thunderbird-style sail panel?? Plus, they screwed on huge battering ram bumpers that were almost completely un-integrated, like all the rest of the FordMoCo models, save the Mark V (which integrated its bumpers more like the competition did). Ugh! I hated that 1975 facelift then, and don't like it any better now years later. Mid 70s cars were hardly a high point in auto styling in general, but this one...eew. Plus, the regular non-extended sedan was 233" long. What a behemoth to drive.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Admitting the weaknesses of the 70's era North American cars, the wind noise, the weight, the velour, the SIZE, and the mileage and miserable lack of power, not to forget that the government was the reason for the low power and mileage, as well as the battering ram chrome bumpers, I still liked 'em. The Lincolns especially were aircraft carrier sized, boat soft ride, unfortunately, same handling, very luxurious inside, quiet, comfy, and roomy. You actually could seat 8 in them if you wanted to. Not the high water mark in our product, to be sure, but they had their appeal.

    In the 70's, I drove LTDs, Pintos, Mavericks, Torinos. But lusted for a Lincoln. Just couldn't swing it at the time. Misery index and all.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,196
    edited December 2011
    My Uncle Daniel had a 1975 Lincoln Continental sedan at the time. I once owned a 1975 Cadillac Sedan DeVille. I'd hardly call either of them the high point for either marque, but I thought they were cool in their own way.

    I'd love to have both a 1969 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham and a 1965 Lincoln Continental should I have two automotive wishes granted by the car genie.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,234
    The mid 70's brought us disco which in retrospect was kind of klitchy and not as bad as some proclaimed at the time. Mid 70's cars do have some retro cool IMHO like landau roofs, fake wire wheel covers, velour seats, coach lights and sometimes even opera windows. Not sure I'd want those on my car these days, but its kind of cool to look at them in old car shows while Bee Gees tunes pop into your head.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,422
    For me, the high points of Lincoln sedans since the 60s were the 61-63 and 66-69. I didn't care for the 64 and 65 when they briefly went back to slab side windows, rather than curved side glass. The early 70s models weren't bad for the time, but were already overly large. I also liked the 85-87 Continental before it went front drive, and after they had integrated the bumpers and angled the grill back a bit. Then the 1990 Town Car came along, which was an attractive design for its era. The 1998 TC lines were also drawn pretty well for the time, but I never cared for it as much, given they moved the TC to the Panther architecture that year (losing some interior width). The 1997-02 Continental was pretty awful (miles of overhangs on 109"wheelbase, which is 3" shorter than the too short wheelbase on the forgettable MKS). I am hoping that the new MKZ may be the first Lincoln sedan in 20 years with truly distinctive styling. The LS was a good car for its time, but while its lines were not awful, it was closer to non-descript than distinctive.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,234
    Personally, I never really got much into Lincoln. I guess my favorite would be a 40's Continental with maybe a V12. I liked the mid 50's Mark II and thought the 56 Premier and Capri were kind of cleanly styled but the 57 maybe a bit overdone. I appreciate the clean and unique styling of those early 60's Elwood Engel models including the 4 dr convertible, but preferred an Imperial or Caddy in the early 60's, although those Lincoln Continentals had a nice leather interior. I also like some of the later Marks like the III and the VIII. Rumor has it the upcoming Lincoln's will be a bit Jaguarish - but I guess time will tell.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Yeah, NOW they make them Jag-like! After Ford sold Jag off like a Chrysler dealership in Tokyo! :confuse:
  • edward53edward53 Posts: 111
    Regardless of upcoming Lincoln styling or engineering, I would never cal them Jaguar like. Ford would have to open up the purse strings to make Lincoln Jaguar like; and Ford just isn't going to do that as long as the majority of buyers are octogenarians.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,234
    I think they're talking styling, not the overall car. As for Jag, being originally British I don't imagine Chinese quality will make much difference ;)
  • edward53edward53 Posts: 111
    I had a Jag XJ12 Coupe . Faulty ignition module within 3 weeks out of the showroom. Blown head gaskets after 16k miles. Valve lifters that were burned out after 23k miles . Leaking oil pan gasket and rear engine seal after 30 k miles. ANOTHER ignition module toasted at about 31K MILES. Still, I loved that car and had fun driving it. I am looking for another XJC 12 coupe. Sorry I traded the one I had in for a Mercedes 500 SEC. I should have kept it
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,723
    Lincoln has a dedicated team of over 100 people right now and they're planning 7 new vehicles all of which will have unique drivetrains, sheetmetal, interiors and features. That's a fairly large investment.
  • edward53edward53 Posts: 111
    Yea, but they will still share cheaper Ford platforms. All of these items you wrote that will be exclusive to Lincoln will after a few years be available on Fords. As per example, Park Assist.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,723
    Lincoln will have exclusive features. The platform snobbery is tiresome. It's not the platform - it's what you do with it.

    Everyone complained about the SRA suspension in the Mustang, yet it outhandles the IRS equipped Camaro easily. Nobody complains about Audi sharing platforms on the A4 and
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    The platform snobbery is tiresome. It's not the platform - it's what you do with it.

    That's right. It only seems to matter what Ford builds on their shared platforms. And don't go off on the "rebadging same panels" either. Cadillac builds the SRX on the Equinox platform, as well as the Terrain and now a Buick clone, that's fine. The CUV Traverse has birthed the Acadia, the Enclave, and originally, the Outlook, now Caddy is getting it. Tahoe, Escalade, Fine. Honda builds Acuras on Accord platforms and Civic platforms. No complaints. Toyota builds Lexuses on Camry platforms albeit, only the ES, but no shame in that. Infiniti has been pretty much unique except for their SUVs which are on Nissan truck platforms, but are now going FWD and AWD on Nissan platforms. Jeep/Chrysler, the Grand Cherokee and the Durango are so similar, from the rear, I can't tell them apart until I read the badge. Audi/VW, the list goes on and on, but good heavens, if Ford does it, they're cheap? I'm tired of hearing it too. :mad:
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,422
    Current styling tends to feed on itself. To be fair, there are so many common styling characteristics and cliches out there among various classes (upscale sedans, small CUVs) that I can point out many examples of how competing companies products share shapes and sizes.

    Also, to be fair, in the past GM has often gotten the same criticism (not for their platform sharing so much) for previously sharing the same bodies (like Ford has often done) as well. The Tahoe and Escalade used to use the exact same body with a different front clip, tail lightsand miscellaneous trim pieces. There is now more differentiation between them than there is between the Expedition and Navigator, but it is still not enough. That is why the the Traverse and Acadia and Enclave had more differentiation out of the box (though still not enough...that is why more differentiation is coming with the next iterations).

    The Equinox and Terrain share almost everything, except all body and interior styling. Although twins underneath, they really do look like different vehicles on the road. The SRX is much more modified from those two and does not share wheelbase or any exterior dimensions. This is what I would expect Lincoln to do with a Ford Kuga/Escape base for a Lincoln vehicle.

    As for the upcoming Buick Encore, it shares nothing with the Equinox. Like the Regal (and even to some extent the Lacrosse and Verano) it is based on an already existing Opel model. GM had considered selling Opel while in the the throws of imploding, but ultimately did not. This has saved the US arm of Buick (the Chinese arm needed no saving, as it was and is going like gangbusters) by providing badge engineered models of cars that are not otherwise available here.

    So, the bottom line is Ford (like some others) had been cheap and uncreative with their Ford, Mercury and Lincoln cloning. Sales of Mercury and Lincoln began to reflect the new market realities. Vestiges of that are still being phased out, as some Ford models held on to this scheme longer than other makes did (for instance, the 2012 Expy and Nav).

    Like you and Allen, I don't think there is any problem with using an existing platform as a base for building a better car. That means that this time around, the MKZ won't simply be a Fusion with lipstick. In addition to having its own styling (that's simply mandatory these days, but far from enough), it will also have some identifiable Lincoln features that are not considered Ford features, and some unique powertrains. Otherwise, Lincoln would be headed for the same dustbin as Mercury ended up in.
  • edward53edward53 Posts: 111
    Nonsense, You can only do so much with a platform to improve it. As I explained before ,the Lincoln platform will share the floor pan with Ford. Lincoln, because of this will have the same ride and handing characteristics as its cheaper Ford brother. It is the floor pan that determines a platform's torsional rigidity which dictates handling and ride quality.
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