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Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?



  • cowbellcowbell Posts: 125
    It certainly does sound disappointing from what you describe. I guess I hope that the pre-production version is using temporary parts, that the higher quality interior pieces just haven't been produced yet.

    I read you post over at the MKS forum, and I got a kick out if. Mainly because you describe getting in the car on the turntable early in the show. When I was at the Washington show, the rotating MKS platform was at a steep angle, so I was imagining someone trying to brace themselves in a car on a 30 degree tilt. I'm guessing the MN show did not have a tilted platform. :)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    I thought it was more than just black plastic and I still think there may be a wood option, but if it is just like the old LS center stack with that awful flat black plastic then I agree it's a disappointment. Some nice real wood would look great.

    Overall I think it's still a step up from previous models. I'd like to see the production models in person, too.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    Haha - Yep, the platform was flat. I think I was the only one they let sit in the car, though. I was first in the door at the show and raced directly to the Lincoln display before anyone else was around. The attendant was a very nice and attractive young lady.

    I am hoping that this was an early example and maybe it was not up to production standards. It was pretty clear that they didn't intend for people to get inside of it. The interior color (attendant said it was cashmere) was not the best representative of the interior, either. The upper dash was black and the wood trim was dark ebony. The wood didn't really stand out. The seats seemed snow white in comparison to the rest of the interior. Lastly, the tuxedo black exterior looked like slate gray to me. Maybe the lighting at the show didn't show it off very well.

    My first impression was not great but I will give it another chance when I can examine a production model.
  • The interior wood is made similiar to the way that particle board is made. It's wood that is not of any type i.e.Maple, Walnut etc; but is made of many types. It is designed to be produced as cheaply as possible. Typically FoMoCo .The chassis is basically Ford Taurus. Why not buy a Taurus and save about $12,000?One can take that extra $12000 and buy something that is a better vehicle. Say a mid price Audi or Lexus etc.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,661
    "My first impression was not great but I will give it another chance when I can examine a production model. "

    Were you referring to the vehicle or "a very nice and attractive young lady?"

    Just wandering...I mean, wondering...:):):):):)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Why buy an Audi when you can buy a VW for less? Same platform. Why buy a Lexus when you can buy a Toyota? Same platform.

    This is a tired argument in general, but especially for the MKS. It doesn't share any sheet metal and almost no interior pieces with the Taurus and it has a bigger (albeit slightly for now) engine. It also has features that the Taurus does not such as cooled seats, manumatic shifter, THX stereo, adaptive HID lights, adaptive cruise control and keyless go. Even the suspension components are tuned differently. So that leaves the floor pan, radiator and transmission that might be the same.

    Even Gregg will back me up on this one.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    My first impression of the attractive young lady was far superior to my first impression of the MKS interior. I would happily give her a closer examination, too, but alas, the MKS is likely more attainable. ;)

    I don't mean to be too harsh in my comments about the MKS. However, first impressions mean a lot and my first impressions of the interior were not positive. While the center stack/console of the Taurus and Sable are covered in fake wood, it is very nicely done with good fit and finish. Also, with the Taurus, the largest part of the door panels are soft to the touch and have wood trim that matches the dash and center stack. The MKS, by contrast, had no wood on the door panels or around the window switches and they were mostly hard molded plastic. The center stack was black plastic that sort of creaked when I pressed on it. I am sure that not a lot of care was taken in assembly of this pre-production MKS.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    Even Gregg will back me up on this one.

    Yup. Sure will. Hey, even the Chrysler 300 borrowed from the Mercedes E Class.
  • Are you putting Ford in the same class as VW or Toyota? As far as the MKS gadgets ,Iin a few years these will be available in Ford's economy cars
  • I am glade that you wrote that the 300 has a Mercede's plateform. I guess that the Taurus plateform that the MKS will be based on is better then the 300's. Keep drinking that Ford kool-aide.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Are you putting Ford in the same class as VW or Toyota?

    Are you trying to make a point or just start a pointless argument to bash Ford?

    these will be available in Ford's economy cars

    No they won't. See question above.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    Do you have an extra 'e' on your keyboard?
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    The Cadillac CTS has been getting good reviews and there was a lot of activity around them at the auto show I recently attended. I am going to test drive one when I get a chance.

    I went to Cadillac's website to review the standard and optional features and to price one out the way I would want it. The end result was to get a CTS with the level of features I want would pushes the price to or above MKS levels. The MKS even has some things missing on the Caddy. Some would say the CTS is worth more but it depends on individual priorities. The CTS will be quicker and handle better but it is a much smaller car than an MKS. For all of the kudos I have heard about the CTS interior, I still don't like a Nav screen that rises out of the dash like a frog's eye.

    The point is that the MKS is pretty well equipped for the price. Further, the option packages and pricing are much more logical than on some competiors. Compared with other sedans in its class, the MKS might look like a pretty good value to buyers.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    bruce: Interesting you posted this, cause I came in here to post this basically to you. Everytime I hear/see the TV ads for the CTS whizzing around over hill and dale and thru tunnels with the voice over "When u turn your car on, does it return the favor?" (one of the best tag lines ever IMHO) I think of the mks. And now, the new almost as good Jag ads for the XF have me thinking of the mks and of course what couldda been with the LS. These are two SWEET automobiles. I stopped to just look at an XF last weekend. The interior in that car is one of the best ever. And the CTS isn't far behind, if behind at all.
    My point is that I also think of you (cue music..) in the sense that you're waiting patiently here for the Lincoln Godot (mks) and hoping it will measure up or at least hint at competing with the CTS os STS or Jag (OK, not the Jag). And then you sat in one and were disappointed with the interior (I dont blame you at all for that) and yet ... you still wait ... for Godot... In this version of the play, Godot is coming, but when it gets here it is bound to disappoint further. (IMHO) The interior is and will remain inferior to the CTS and remain not up to prime time luxo-vehicle standards. If u wanna know (basically) how it will drive, take a spin in an '07 or 08 Taurus. Or maybe that 07 Accord my wife's been driving (blech).
    I was going to suggest that you at least take the CTS for a spin between now and when the first mks arrives locally. I'm glad to see you're going to do that. (As for the Nav rising out of the dash, maybe that's part of what that gal in the ad was referring to?) But seriously, it does end up in precisely the right position to make it easy to refer to while not taking your eyes off the road.
    And I will close by suggesting you also try out the new XF while you're doing your test drives. For a few dollars more, that Jag is one nice place to spend one;s time on the road.
    Good luck and I do hope you end up with a car at least as good as your LS :)
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    Thanks, jeyhoe. I agree with everything you said. Actually, my wife has a 2008 Taurus so I already have a pretty good idea of how the MKS will drive.

    The XF is awesome. If Ford was keeping Jag, I would have already ordered one. The stupid, hard-headed, bleed-Ford-blue loyality of mine will not let up! I know I need a shrink. I have waited so d*mn long for a great $45-50,000 car from Ford Motor Company and have nothing but aggravation to show for it. Just when it seems there is light at the end of the tunnel, Ford turns out the light and says, "just wait a couple more years....."

    Speaking of ads, I love the "hold on tight to your dreams" song on the Honda ads. Why the hell can't Ford turn out a decent ad campaign that catches the eye and ear? What has that new marketing guru been doing?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    What has that new marketing guru been doing?

    A lot. They're displaying a Taurus at the NY auto show that's been crashed into an offset barrier at 35 mph. You can get in it and see how well the interior and the rest of the vehicle held up to that crash (very well - cabin is almost pristine from what I could tell). This has Farley written all over it. I can't imagine Ford doing something like this pre-Farley.

    And now they've launched a new ad campaign titled "Ford - Drive One". I guess it's a variation on the old "Have you driven a Ford lately?" slogan. I don't think Farley has had time to tackle Lincoln yet, so for now I guess it's still "Reach Higher".

    The biggest impact that Farley has had is that he's getting the dealers involved in the ad campaign which never happened. He's also giving more money to the dealers to use in more creative ways rather than putting it all into national ads or cash on the hood. This is what Toyota has always done. It's already resulted in "Free Sync" offers on Ford vehicles offered by the local dealer associations. Dealer incentives including free equipment, subsidized leases, etc. is a much better way to go than just dumping cash on the hood - less impact on resale values (along with matching production to demand).
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    bruce: I hear negotiations between Ford and Tata are still not finalized.... Plus the XF is a Ford design. AND it's the LS successor, (+ $10,000). Were you to get a mks and put it in your garage next to your wife's mks -oops- I mean Taurus, then I think I WOULD recommend a shrink. ;) C'mon man, you don't need ANOTHER D3 FWD do you? Send Ford a message!

    Me - I'm thinking lately that in today's world of automotive complexity and the abject refusal of most (all?) car companies to really stand behind their vehicles when design problems (Aviator tailgate, LS sway bar bushings etc - and only using Ford cause that's the example I'm most familiar with) cause no end of monetary pain and abuse to the buyer, ... I'm thinking of leasing my next car. That way, the monthly cost is lower AND, i don't care what unfixable problems come up cause I don't have to worry about it. Just drive it back and go lease something else.

    Yeah, I like that Honda ad too. I'll tell ya though, I've often heard the term "appliance" applied to cars and never really knew exactly what was meant by that until I drove this Accord. A nice car, a nice environment to sit in. Turn it on and it stops and goes. But the experience is anything but engaging. Disappointment doesn't begin to cover it.

    Just got the call that our LS is ready to be picked up after getting the rear bumper replaced and painted. Not a minute too soon. My wife's been suffering from DAS too long. (Driving Accord Syndrome.)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    I do like the new CTS much better than the original and the XF is stunning, but both are smaller and more expensive than the MKS. It all depends on what you want out of a vehicle. My V8 LS was a dream on road trips and curvy backroads but I found myself stuck in commuter traffic 95% of the time. My Fusion has good handling and is actually more comfortable as a daily commuter (easier to get in and out of, more back seat room, etc.) and gets 3-4 mpg better with almost the same power and good (but not great) handling.

    I'll have to wait and see the final MKS production interior before passing judgement. I think the center stack would look much better with real wood (I see an option for wood trim in the order guide but don't know what it looks like yet).
  • cowbellcowbell Posts: 125
    Two weeks ago Autoline did an episode on automobile advertising and they specifically talked about that Accord add where the car is driving down the road displaying with the "movies" playing in the background.

    They pretty much slammed the ad, and here was what I remember their reasoning being: You pay more attention to the images behind the car than the car itself, and the add tells you nothing about the car. Why is this car special? Why is it better than its competitors? What has Kevin Spacey done good since American Beauty? And you forget what the car looks like 15 seconds after the add is done if you even saw it to begin with.

    Of course Lincoln commercials have been pretty crap-tacular themselves lately. Especially the surfboarding hot-mom one. What was that? How does that help sell the car? At least the latest MKZ add I saw made some sense. It's the one where the MKZ is going up the ramp with the ball bearings. It touts a good feature on the car, but I'm not sure if the creepy voice of Willem Dafoe was the best way to go.
  • Do you know what Jeyhoe rhyms with? Pardon me since I ended a statement with a proposition.
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