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Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?



  • speculatorspeculator Posts: 116
    Rwd is dead for a Lincoln sedan as well as a Ford sedan. Ford cancelled the program! It was cancelled in January 09.If you don't believe me ask Ford's J Mays. Or google. Ford cancels rear wheel drive.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    Well yes, and that is no longer news. However, I am old enough to know how fast time passes, and how much can change in just 10 years, for better or for worse. If Lincoln survives, you and I have no idea what end of the car will drive the top model in 2018..
  • speculatorspeculator Posts: 116
    Ford would never do what you are proposing. Lincoln doesn't have that kind of cache' with the market segment that the Bentley runs in. As you have written, Lincolns are mostly considered high priced Fords. ILincoln would have to produce a vehicle that the younger more affluent buyer would want. Right now the majority of those who are purchasing Lincolns are those who previously owned Lincolns. Those who are mostly in the age range of late 50's to mid 70's. Hardly the way to build a loyal customer base that would capture those in the age range of the late 20's to mid 70's. The type of client base that would be needed to feasibly produce a car as a Bentley .Lincoln would have to offer lower end premium to mid price premium and then exclusive priced vehicles. A first time Lincoln buyer purchases car that is about 40K and then gradually moves up in price range when purchasing another Lincoln. I don't believe that Lincoln really wants to market to that type of client base. My BMW dealership's client base is much younger that the client base of my LM dealership . Right now it would be difficult to get this client base to consider a Lincoln. I had an MKS parked in my BMW showroom for 3 months and had the floor monitored where the MKS was shown and only a few customers looked at it and none sat in it or inquired about it. By the way, that Bentley is really sweet as you have written
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,661
    unfair to compare Lincoln to a Bentley???...regardless of how much better thry ought to make their interiors, they cannot charge anything close to what nibbles paid for his Bentley...Lincoln still has to be mass market, whereas Bentley may sell in a year what Lincoln sells in a week...this is not a viable comparison, IMO...
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,305

    Perhaps he is renting it via a lease.
  • speculatorspeculator Posts: 116
    Unfortunately , no one would purchase such a Lincoln- Bentley type if Ford were to build one. The reason is simple. It would still be considered a much higher priced Ford. There would be no exclusivity associated with it. Ford over the years shot itself in the foot by making Fords with a better interior and then slapping the Lincoln name plate on it. Maybe if Ford were to sell the brand to an investment consortium a Lincoln of a Bentley's or even a Bimmer's calibur could be produced. But it would be hard to get past it's still a Ford attitude on part of the market segment to which it would be aimed at. But it may be still possible with new owners who will invest in engineering and design combined with an aggressive marketing campaign.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,076 see Lincoln Town Cars used as taxicabs these days, and why not? They are merely gussied-up Crown Vics anyway with virtually identical mechanicals. Lincoln won't be back until it is once again the highly-esteemed luxury car it was in the 1960s. When I think of a 1960s Lincoln, I think of the Kennedys and the captains of industry pictured driving them in the print ads of the time. When I think of a present-day Lincoln, I think of livery cars.
  • No I don't lease! I and I don't rent and I don't finace. I pay for everything with a check. That includes my cars. I don't purchase items that I can't afford.
  • speculatorspeculator Posts: 116
    I really believe that Ford would never produce a pure Lincoln. One that is not based on an underlying Ford platform. Lincoln is basically a niche brand. It doesn't compete with other brands across a broad spectrum of market segments. It's only interested in marketing to the traditional buy American car buyer. This will eventually lead to the brand's discontinuation. The traditional American only buyer is rapidly diminishing.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,623
    So I guess the Lincoln LS was just a figment of my imagination?
  • speculatorspeculator Posts: 116
    Was the LS a pure Lincoln or was it based on a Jaguar platform?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,623
    It was on a platform jointly developed with Jaguar. You said all Lincolns are based on a Ford platform. Not quite true.

    The writing is on the wall. Mulally is moving Ford upmarket (like the new Taurus) and will be moving Lincoln upmarket as well - once they're back in the black and have taken care of the immediate business needs (Fiesta, Explorer, new Focus, etc.). They won't be in the Bentley class but expect some higher end RWD luxury platforms down the road. GRWD was the first step but funds had to be diverted. That doesn't mean the idea is dead and gone.
  • speculatorspeculator Posts: 116
    Where do you get your info about rwd? Right now there is a better chance of discontinuing the Lincoln brand then there is of a future rwd car. The sales of the Lincoln products across the board is very bleak. It's the same with other brands. But could Ford continue to produce a brand that at best in good conditions sells about 70 thousand vehicles? Some of the deals that I am making to move the MKS' are up to 7000 k off list depending on the retail price along with incentives from Ford. I am sure that others are making the same deals along with other incentives. Even with these incentives only 1760 MKS' were moved last month. Ford had a break even point of about 25 thousand MKS sold vehicles for the first year and that didn't take account of present conditions. There is no way that a profit could be produced from the present deals that are offered to move product. The upscale price increases on the MKS are due to mainly making more items as standard. It would only mean that a bigger discount off price would be offered if the present conditions continue.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,623
    Mulally said publicly that Lincoln would be going RWD and that was the global RWD program where North America and Australia would share platforms. This is right in line with the global platform sharing mantra and makes perfect sense since both markets can support RWD car platforms. He also said Lincoln would be the volume brand, not Mercury.

    What happened was simple - with the economy and gas prices Ford had to reprioritize platform development and the Fiesta and other European small cars and smaller, more fuel efficient powertrains have a much bigger payback and better business case than larger luxury and/or performance sedans.

    Mulally is still commited to pushing Lincoln higher (should be obvious based on what they did with the Taurus) and to use RWD platforms - they just don't have the money to do it right now. Ford has to be fixed first, then Lincoln, then Mercury. If they get the first 2 right then they may not need Mercury or they can make it a specialized brand without worrying about giving L/M dealers volume.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,661
    "It would only mean that a bigger discount off price would be offered if the present conditions continue"...or, if one waits until one year old cars are traded in, we might get half off MSRP with the probably massive depreciation...
  • I really believe that Ford would never produce a pure Lincoln. One that is not based on an underlying Ford platform.

    That tired tune again. So Lincoln is based on a Ford platform. Acuras are based on Honda platforms (heck, the TSX is, or at least used to be, an overseas Honda Accord). Lexuses are based on Toyota platforms. Infinities are based on Nissan platforms. I've seen Lexuses with obvious Toyota switchgear and Acuras with obvious Honda switchgear. I’d bet Audi and Volkswagon share lots, too. Sit in one, then the other, and you can certainly tell they share the same DNA. Everybody does it, it’s just that some have done it better than Ford/Lincoln: less obviously, with unique sheetmetal and interiors. Lincoln is getting less obvious about it now, too.
  • emrnibbles1emrnibbles1 Posts: 48
    Why waist your money on a upscale Ford? Acura was to have the next gen RL based on the new NSX chassis. Even Acura realized that a genuine prestige brand needs a high end rwd vehicle. One that is truly upscale. Now it's been cancelled because of the recession. I presume that Ford did the same because of similar reasons. I read the article where a Ford brass hat said that "Ford wants to focus on fuel economy using rwd funds for that purpose." A Lincoln should be large and with grandeur and superb in engineering using rwd as to match the true marks of automotive engineering. Two for examples are BMW and Mercedes. Mercedes and BMW have makes that are near Lincoln's price category. Are other less costly marks sharing the same platforms with BMW and Mercedes besides Chrysler which uses a donated second hand outdated Mercedes platform? If it's good enough for BMW and Mercedes it's good enough for Lincoln.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,305
    A Lincoln should be large and with grandeur and superb in engineering using rwd as to match the true marks of automotive engineering.

    Ford had such a motorcar in the form of the Jaguar XJ8L, but they sold it to an Indian company.

    Ta ta!
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Ford had such a motorcar in the form of the Jaguar XJ8L, but they sold it to an Indian company.

    Yes, and JUST when I was about to buy one, I'm afraid to.
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