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Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?

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  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,661
    I guess the question should be...how thin can they spread themselves and stay financially viable???...just how many Lincoln pickup trucks do they sell???...Lexus seems to be economically viable, so they can sell as many models as they want, but Ford/Lincoln have limited funds from which to draw on to make a limited number of models...

    IMO, that would include specialty cars...those fancy Ford GTs are nice, but Ford does NOT need simple promotion of something that no one buys, they need something to keep the plant humming, and I also doubt that Lincoln pickup trucks will do it...

    Similarly, Dodge does not need the Stealth, as few people buy it, and I am sure that few people actually walk into a dealership to look at one, only to buy a 300...they do not need flash anymore, they need to make something that buyers will buy...the flashy cars that used to draw them in probably do not work anymore, as buyers are, IMO, becoming more practical...I can assure you that when I needed to buy my Dodge pickup truck, it wasn't the Prowler that drew me to the showroom... ;) :shades:

    BTW...I hate to agree with lemko, but they need to drop the letter models...I consider myself a carnut, yet I do not know the difference between MKS, MKZ, MKX, and whatever...to intentionally confuse the buying market, to me, is NOT the roadway to success...at least DTS and STS came FROM Seville and Deville, but the MK's make no sense at all...

    Just my 2 cents...
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 39,049
    While they are at it, they could use a piece of wire to hold up the exhaust system.

    Sounds like the voice of experience, lol.

    Ford is going to sell 300 million new shares of common stock. So those people who bought in to the company to take advantage of Ford's new found respect garnered by not taking bailout out money may find their holdings watered down.

    Maybe it won't matter though if Ford keeps making the right moves. The latest is to confirm that Lincoln dealers will indeed be combined with Ford ones, at least in urban areas:

    Ford Reduces Urban Dealers, Lincoln-Mercury Outlets (windsorstar.com)
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I guess the question should be...how thin can they spread themselves and stay financially viable???...just how many Lincoln pickup trucks do they sell???.

    Actually, way more than necessary to make it profitable - since the truck is only a made over F-150, their break even number is 2500 per year. They way exceeded that each year..

    Lexus seems to be economically viable, so they can sell as many models as they want, but Ford/Lincoln have limited funds from which to draw on to make a limited number of models...


    BTW...I hate to agree with lemko, but they need to drop the letter models...I consider myself a carnut, yet I do not know the difference between MKS, MKZ, MKX, and whatever...to intentionally confuse the buying market, to me, is NOT the roadway to success...at least DTS and STS came FROM Seville and Deville, but the MK's make no sense at all...

    Well, I agree with both of you - I also think they need to drop those stupid MK names that some advertising agency sold them on. And FYI, the MK came from the MARK line, and was originally intended to be pronounced "MARK", not EMM KAY, but of course, the public didn't follow instructions, and the EMM KAY designation naturally followed. They are stupid.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,661
    I did realize that the MK was descended from the Lincoln Mark series...didn't they get up to Mark 6 or 7 (oops, I mean VI or VII?)...
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    They got up to Mark 8 (VIII), and had a Mark 9 on the drawing board, based on the Lincoln LS/Jaguar S Type/Thunderbird platform, but it never made it into the steel. It was nice enough looking, and probably would have been quite the competent car, but large coupes were a tough sell then, and the numbers were not there to make the case to produce it.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    I think some of you guys are a little to hard on Lincoln - especially the MKS. As a bit of a RWD purist, sure, I would prefer a dedicated RWD platform. I would also prefer the MKS to be lower and better proportioned. However, the current generation D3 platform is very good. When equipped with AWD, any hint of torque steer is gone and unless driven like a maniac, the ride/handling tradeoff is pretty d--- good for a car of this type.

    Instead of complaining that the MKS is on a Taurus platform, we should be saying how great it is that the 2010 Taurus is on the MKS platform. Early reports indicate that the SHO is quite a good handler. It might have been wise for Lincoln to offer a sportier version of the MKS with the SHO suspension tuning. It would fare better in magazine comparisons.

    The MKS will not handle like a BMW nor is it an isolation chamber like a Lexus. Not unlike Ford products in earlier years, the MKS strikes a compromise. Buyers who want the last ounce of handling prowess will complain. Buyers who want a rolling living room couch will complain. However, a good share of buyers in the middle will like the compromise Lincoln has made.

    As much as I admired the 60's and 70's Lincolns, luxury buyers today have much different priorities - more high tech, more edgy styling, and better handling. I think the MKS does pretty well at addressing the needs of todays mainstream mid-luxury buyer.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,077
    I think the MKS does pretty well at addressing the needs of todays mainstream mid-luxury buyer.

    Yeah, but it looks awful and I want a V-8! If the deck was a bit longer it would look a lot better. That trunk chopped-off just aft of the rear wheels makes the car look too stubby.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    The car is definitely long enough for today's size large cars, but it would have looked far better had they trimmed the long front overhang and added those extra inches to the rear. Even three more inches back there would have made the trunk opening much more useful. Long front overhangs are beginning to look quite dated. Trim ones look sharper now.

    Ford has a tendency toward long overhangs in front and has for decades. The Mustang goes against that trend somewhat, but overall someone in design is demanding big schnozzes. That is one of the problems with the Flex. In making it a bigger vehicle than the Fairlane concept, they also felt the need to enlarge the front overhang by quite a bit. It would have looked better had they designed the bumper and grill with a bit less sheet metal and air space.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,305
    The timing and throb of a V8 can not be duplicated by a V6 & I prefer a V8 too.

    Having grown up with balanced design that included more rear deck, perhaps the following will be helpful.

    http://www.billsretroworld.com/cars.htm :)
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    I agree the deck looks too short. The wheelbase is too short in comparison to the overall length and height of the car, too.

    I like V8s, too. However, when the twin turbo MKS is available this summer, you should take a spin in one of them. I have a feeling that the low end torque will make you think they put a 460 under the hood. If it is smoothness or sound you are worried about, I don't think that is an issue, either. The way the engine is mounted, the much different gearing, the direct injection and turbos will have a positive impact on sound quality.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,623
    The timing and throb of a V8 can not be duplicated by a V6 & I prefer a V8 too.

    So you'd rather have a 315 hp V8 than a 365 hp Twin Turbo V6? I understand the sound and feel issue, but is it really more important than actual performance?
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,305
    The number of times I would appreciate the feeling sound would be 10 to 1 over the opportunities to Zoom Zoom which in my memory is actually a breakfast cereal. ;)
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,943
    Indeed, I doubt the typical Lincoln buyer could care less about zoom zoom...but they probably like the inherent V8 smoothness and maybe the noise made when the car is taken above 3000rpm once a year :P

    I wonder if a modern TT 6 could be tuned to imitate a V8 in sound and manners. One thing that comes to mind is exhaust drone...I notice it a lot in modern Infiniti 6s. It doesn't sound great, and it would be an annoyance to a Lincoln customer no doubt.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,017
    I think engines are generally a Fomoco weak point and Lincoln, like all of domestic Ford have engines that are too noisey while they get middling performance despite mediocre fuel economy. Hopefully that is changing and the new models will actually get the improved EPA numbers on their stickers. I guess a loud engine reminds some of Harleys and old muscle cars, but nowadays it doesn't compare well with the quiet, smooth Honda and Toyota drivetrains that give decent driving and economy. For example, I haven't driven the new 2.5 4 cyl Fusion, but the 2.3 sounded like a tractor it was so harsh when accelerated while its fuel economy was noticeably behind Camcord. The V8 in a a Ford SUV is loud, sucks gas and is usually a weak performer. Now the reviews are saying the Mustang drivetrain pales against the new Camaro. But Mullaley hasn't been there that long, has a long list of problems to fix and limited funds. I'm hoping the 2010's are actually better and not just on paper.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,623
    All of those V8 qualities would require a new RWD platform - can't really be done on the current one.

    In addition to the current engines, a new 5.0L V8 is on the way to replace both the 4.6L and 5.4L engines. Rumors are anywhere from 350 - 400 hp Naturally Aspirated depending on application (truck vs. car e.g.). And it will have best in class fuel economy - that's a new Ford mandate. Just look at the 2010 Fusion to see what Ford can do when it's focused (no pun intended). The problem in the past is that nobody ever made fuel economy a requirement across the board, so individual teams never made it a priority. Bill Ford was always more concerned with emissions, where Ford excelled but the customers didn't really care.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    The following is from Ford press material regarding the MKS twin-turbo sound:

    The Lincoln MKS team also was careful to give customers an exhaust note from the 3.5-liter EcoBoost V-6 that was pleasing but not overpowering. A precision-tuned induction sound tube directed into the cabin complements the feeling of power. It has the powerful sound Lincoln MKS customers will respond to.

    Maybe they are not necessarily targeting the "typical" Lincoln buyer? I used to love the sound of a four barrel carb sucking air through a low restriction air cleaner. I also liked glass-pack mufflers. Times change....
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    There was I believe an autoblog entry this year talking about how exhausts will so be able to be tuned to sound like anything. It is apparently no longer any significant engineering problem to get a V8 burble out of a V6. However, I think this technology is just in time to arrive when very few people care about that anymore.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,077
    Heck, I hate the Cadillac CTS, STS, and DTS names. I'd rather see the classic DeVille, Seville, Fleetwood names. I love the long drawn out names like Fleetwood Brougham d'Elegance!
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,661
    For once I will agree with you absolutely...bring back Sedan DeVille, Coupe DeVille, etc...if not for me, at least for lemko, the last man standing to buy a new Caddy...
  • alman08alman08 Posts: 282
    Just my own personal opinion, I think it's an excellent idea that Lincoln started with the new names for their new cars. They needed to get rid of that American junker's image and move on, get new life. Two thumbs up! :shades:
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