Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?

1188189191193194216

Comments

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,118
    True, but, for valid reasons or not, the automotive press seems to care, and it influences the reviews and ratings that people read.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,118
    I suggest that you read my message #3903 as it relates to the Lexus ES.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    the automotive press seems to care, and it influences the reviews and ratings that people read.

    Absolutely true. And it doesn't seem to make any difference whatsoever in sales to the average buyer.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,598
    Absolutely true. And it doesn't seem to make any difference whatsoever in sales to the average buyer.

    I concur. To the 3% of the market that the buff mags cater to, it's important. To the 97% that just drive, it doesn't.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    But it does make a difference in sales. The average buyer may be clueless about how his or her luxury car's features compare to the competition, or whether it goes around corners the quickest, but they are brand whores. They know which brands exude real prestige, even if they don't know why. BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Lexus are not on top because they have the best deals or most complete equipment levels. It is because they all have good combinations of auto press reviews, resale value, dealer experience, luxury features, and general recognition by most people that they are prestigious brands. Lincoln can get there by shooting for being the best in their class. They will never be anything but also-rans by aiming for anything less.

    As for the FWD/AWD v. RWD controversy, people will argue it forever, but in the end it doesn't matter. Audi and Bentley both do quite well with mostly FWD based, but rear biased AWD. Continuing development reduces weight, provides better balance, and both brands are beginning to eliminate that "FWD" look as well. That is not difficult. After all, take a look at early FWD cars. The original Olds Toronado had gobs of space between the front wheels and the cab.

    Nothing requires FWD to have the engine largely in front of the front wheels. That was originally a space saving design to carve out larger interiors on smaller cars. But sometimes, a similar size RWD car has more interior space than a similar sized FWD one. There are so many factors in designing good legroom within a wheelbase of a certain size.

    As an example, the new Sentra has more rear legroom than Altima or Maxima. The humongous Town Car only had 117" of wheelbase with RWD, but offered virtually the same rear legroom as the 117" wheelbased FWD MKT. Both configurations can be designed for space, or looks, or balance, or handling...or not. RWD starts out with a handling advantage, all other factors being equal. But those factors in reality are never equal.
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,921
    "Ford says this MKZ is the future of Lincoln. The car that will save it from suffering the same fate as Mercury, Plymouth, Oldsmobile and Pontiac. But if this is the best Ford can do, we say Mulally, Fields and Farley should just cut their losses and get the headstone ready."

    2013 Lincoln MKZ Road Test
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Stupid move to use ringer tires. However, it should be noted that with those tires it outhandled a M5 so obviously the suspension is good.

    Some people have such high expectations that nothing Lincoln does would be good enough.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    edited December 2012
    I look forward to examining and test driving an MKZ. I enjoy reading reviews and comparison tests but I put far more importance on MY opinions than those of others.

    Aside from opinions, however, it is a fact that the rear seat room in the MKZ falls short. Furthermore, the acceleration results for the V6 are disappointing. I don't know if the chassis is robust enough to handle the 3.5 ecoboost but that is the optional engine this car needs. While the review does not mention overall noise levels, the test results show very low noise at a 70 MPH cruise. It would have likely been even quieter if it had the correct tires. Very stupid move for Lincoln to put ringer tires on a test car. Other publications have mentioned the performance tires but implied that they were an option. They are certainly not mentioned on Lincoln's site.

    Lincoln (and Ford) have some work to do around ergonomics. When I checked out a 2013 MKS some time ago, I was very disappointed in the "sliders" for some of the controls, the way they buried the suspension settings in sub-menus and a number of other idiosyncrasies. It sounds like the MKZ followed that same format.

    None of the reviews for the MKZ so far have been particularly positive. Maybe expectations are too high. Maybe it is just too easy to disrespect Lincoln, based on the way the brand has been ignored up until the past year or so. It will be interesting to see how buyers react to the car.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    I think it's a combination of expectations being unrealistic and some shortcomings with the vehicle.

    Even so I think it's a far better car than the old MKZ and shows progress in several areas.

    If the next new Lincoln has the same probems, then I'll start to worry.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    It is interesting that GM Customer Service monitors Edmunds forums, and chimes in if people are experiencing questions or problems. I have never seen Ford or Lincoln customer service people do that here. I think it would be a good idea. It certainly could not hurt.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,000
    Nah, my experience with corporate on a problem child Explorer was just as bad as with GM and a problem plagued Oldsmobile. Do those reps online in the GM forum really resolve anything? Not sure from reading that they do. I think the key is to pick your dealership carefully, not just by low price. They are the one who is going to make the difference because they buy the cars from Ford, GM, etc. in much greater volume than your individual purchase. Both of the company reps I dealt with above really were just BS artists blowing off the problem and hoping you just got tired and went away. After that I started paying more attention to customer feedback about dealers. A good dealer will help you out a lot more than some low level corporate suit in my opinion as long as you're not a jerk dealing with them.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Ford has been doing that through Facebook for some time. I agree all mfrs should do a much better job with customer service. Maybe this is an area where Lincoln will try to separate itself.
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,921
    edited December 2012
    I just recommended that a Honda owner contact the manufacturer with Twitter over on Answers. You never know what's really going to grab their attention. Earlier today there was a story about an older gentleman getting ripped off by an Acura dealer and his kids got satisfaction by contacting the AARP.

    The guy who made YouTube fame with his song about how United Airlines trashed his guitar started a "social media" gripe company recently.

    There has been a Ford rep around; ditto Subaru and BMW, Toyota and probably some others.

    Damage control Customer relations is an international effort these days.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    It is odd how they managed to lose eight cubic feet of interior space compared to the Fusion. The MKZ roofline is not any more rakish or low than the Fusion's. At least not in appearance. And what's the point of cutting interior space if the roofline outline is not much different from most of the new mid-size sedans? It reminds me of the MKS. Although it is taller, longer and wider--and less gracefully drawn--than a rival (XTS), it has less interior space. Ford needs to work on that. It has been shown that great styling and good interior room can be combined. Lincoln is just not doing it yet.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Definitely a mystery. I'll see if my insider has any info.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,118
    Your message #3914 makes the most convincing and well expressed arguments on the FWD/RWD issue that I've read.

    As you may know, I've argued that Lincoln needs at least one RWD based platform to differentiate itself from Ford, and to effectively compete with Mercedes, BMW and Lexus. Infiniti is doing a decent job of competing against BMW. Acura hasn't done consistently well with its Honda derived vehicles, and Audi neutralizes the FWD/RWD architecture issue by heavily promoting its Quattro system. My point regarding your excellent post, however, is that it puts the FWD/RWD issue into clear perspective, and it has tempered my thinking on the course Lincoln should take. I now think that Lincoln could follow Audi's business model if it doesn't reintroduce a RWD platform.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    Audi is going to spend 17 billion dollars in the next 3 years to overtake BMW. They are already #1 in Europe and China. Meanwhile, Mercedes is intent on being #1. This market is heating up. Lincoln does not have the resources anymore to be a substantial purveyor of luxury vehicles. Niche maybe, like Volvo. But even Volvo sells far more cars worldwide.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,000
    A price war between upper end Euro makes will be interesting if it takes place here. I see Lexus holding their own in that case because of Toyota's deep pockets. The losers would probably be Lincoln and Buick, and to a lesser degree Cadillac perhaps. Buick has gotten pretty expensive, so near lux price war would probably really clobber them.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    I don't see this being a price war - I see it being a product war. Audi could conduct a price war right now without spending a dime. $17B is a lot of new products.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    A good dealer will help you out a lot more than some low level corporate suit in my opinion as long as you're not a jerk dealing with them.

    TOTALLY aqree with your entire paragraph, and even moreso, this last sentence above. The Company really doesn't care about you, the Dealer is their customer. The DEALER should care about you - you are THEIR customer, and they should want to keep you coming back. That won't happen if you don't get treated well there. I can tell you from my viewpoint and experience, I buy more from the dealer, than the car they carry. With a few exceptions, I can find a car I like, if I like the way I'm treated, especially in service, by the dealer. Some GM cars, being an exception. I wouldn't drive a Chevy from Carl Sewell if he changed the oil himself! (He's famous for his service in Dallas).
Sign In or Register to comment.