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Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?



  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    Autoextremist's take:
    I don't care how you spin the new Lincoln MKS, it's a "me-too" car with a "me-too" shape that is totally devoid of character, distinctiveness or even a whiff of Lincoln heritage.
    Says it a lot better than I could.
  • grbeckgrbeck Posts: 2,361
    The nose on those Thunderbirds was known as the "Bunkie Beak." Apparently he was trying to have Ford ape Pontiac styling.

    The main problem with those Thunderbirds is that the car lost its charm as it grew in size...after 1966 the Thunderbird became the Thunderbarge. With its larger size, body-on-frame construction and available four-door bodystyle, post-1966 Thunderbirds became more of a highly styled Galaxie 500 as opposed to a car that was...."unique in the world."

    As for the Lincoln MKS - it reminds me of the late Oldsmobile Aurora with a Lincoln grille. We all know how successful the Aurora was in turning around Oldsmobile.

    Above a certain price point, buyers prefer rear-wheel-drive. Cadillac discovered this, and so is Acura with its slow-selling RL. I don't think Ford will have much better luck with Lincoln.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Nor do I, grbeck.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    yes the GS is the Lexus. ;)

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Acura's RL, isn't slow selling because of its SH-AWD, but because it is severely under powered when compared to the competition. If Acura put 350-400 hp and had a 0-60 time in the low 5's it would be a huge winner. 0-60 in 7+ seconds is far from class leading or even competitive. The RL, does out handle most of the competition and even this area could be enhanced. ;)

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    The MKS, with a good dose of power and performance could prove to be a winner. It's going to take a great interior and engine to make it a winner and it's styling alone won't put it in a winners circle without the hardware to back it up. The MKS needs to be a high speed luxury sedan with a sporty flair injected into it like a Volvo. ;)

  • I think high quality interior and overal refinement are more important than style. Lexus proved it.

    There are unconfirmed rumors that Merucry will be dropped and replaced with Volvo. If it is true then Lincoln must be more luxurous than Volvo and has to be technically more advanced. I do not know who will buy Lincoln if at the same dealership they can buy Volvo built on the same platform? At least Mercury has a great value compared with Volvo and Lincoln/Mercury made sence because Mercury was considered "baby" Lincoln for much less.
  • grbeckgrbeck Posts: 2,361
    A rear-wheel-drive configuration, with decent traction control, would seem like a less complicated and more effective solution than SH-AWD.

    I haven't yet seen a road test that puts the RL ahead of a BMW for handling.

    As for traction in inclement weather - anyone who can afford a $45,000+ car probably has an SUV in the garage, too.

    Acura is finding that what works in the $37,000-and-under category (for passenger cars, anyway) doesn't work so well up against Mercedes-Benz and BMW. Lincoln, I'm afraid, will learn the same lesson, unless the new CEO reverses the marque's direction.

    There's a reason Cadillac switched back to a rear-wheel-drive layout, and it isn't nostalgia for the good old days...
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    I'm not sure what you'd call outhandling but the RL "don't quote me" I believe pulled 0.87 or 0.90 G's on the skidpad. :surprise:

  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,305
    Wow! Which Cad sedan now has rear wheel drive?
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    You are kidding, right?

    Every Cadillac vehicle, except the DTS (and the BTS which is not sold here), is rear wheel drive: CTS, STS, XLR, SRX, ESV, EXT, Escalade, and all the V Series.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    And of course, all the Lincolns USED to be RWD except the Continental, which has been discontinued for years -but now that Cadillac has come around, Lincoln is going to be all SH-AWD.... Grrrrrrrr :mad:
  • "The concept did start with Veraldi, and now he's bringing it back to Ford..." James Lewis comments in his managment tome about ARM's reliance on the Taurus Chief Engineers success at revamping product development at Ford. Boeing CEO Phil Condit and ARM met with Veraldi during the development of 777, applying some of his techniques at Boeing, thus saving the company. The head of the Machinist Union also comments with respect to ARM: "An engineer that knows how to fix what doesn't work..." And the other half of Boeing's union the SPEE's Charles Bofferding added that: "Our negotiations....were based on criteria that we all understood, rather than who could force the other to do something they don't want to do..." These are remarks printed among various sources that indicate the tennure of the leadership we can expect from Mr. Mulally at Ford Motor. A welcome and much needed change at Ford.

    As the Ford Motor Board meets today at this hour to decide the fate of the company and the 'Way Forward Plan', one of its chief architects, Ann Stevens, may leave Ford according to Reuters and Automotive News. Stevens, not a fan of Lincoln...given the tennets of the orignal plan, also wants a higher calling in that she says: "I do want to be CEO..." ARM has checkmated her fortunes at Ford Motor. She may well be gone within a fortnight. Leaving the COO's position open for rank and file from Boeing. ARM could bring in his own cadre of "Whiz Kids", just as HF II did bringing in Ernest Breech, and staff from the Strategic Bombing Survey in 1945---one of whom was McNamara, as arbitor of the '61, and set the stage for the revival of Lincoln. Will there be a similar "man" brought aboard at the behest of an ARM's-TEAM? We can only hope so.

    Between 60 cars per hour and 33 cars per hour from Wixom's heights in 1997, the ARM's TEAM will have to reestablish Ford Motor manufacturing to remain profitable between that range, responding to fluctuations in the marketplace without betting the farm. You can bet that Ford Motor under ARM's TEAM will cut employment down to the levels similar to Toyota---meaning that far more than 10% of the current workforce will go. He did that at Boeing, and also installed their first "moving" assembly line to build 777/787/737's---using 60% fewer employees. 60,000 Ford workers may well be bought out or asked to leave. Painful, terrible to watch, especially if you are one of them. Hopefully they will not lose rank and file that have expertise in areas they need. Though it is a foregone conclusion that the competition at the high end of the engineering, design and executive staffs will be very keen indeed. But this is what is being decided at this hour---from the wreckage of Ford today may yet rise, not only a "British Motors Corporation" from the sell-off of assets, but a new, rather more virile and vivascious Ford Motor Company.

    Almost fifty years ago to the day, July 29, that the last Aero Executive took hold of an automotive Company, Curtiss-Wright's Roy T. Hurley taking over at Studebaker Packard, Bill Ford and ARM hashed out what will happen at Ford, and their plans presented to the Board at this hour. But the fact that ARM relied upon one of the engineers who brought Ford a great success in the past as inspiration for the future at Boeing bodes well for the future of Ford Motor. We can only hope that tomorrow as the details are presented to the world, that "Way Forward" is unrecognisable, scrapped, or completely rewritten. If ARM arrives in a blue Town Car tomorrow at the Glass House, we shall know just what kind of a stamp "our man Mulally" will have upon the Blue Oval.

    We can only pray.


    (Sources: 'Packard, Decline and Fall' James A. Ward,, Stanford University Press, NY, 1999; FT; WSJ; Reuters; Automtoive News; Edmunds Online)
  • Well, the problem is that Lincoln does not have any rear-drive platforms to work with. For one reason or the other they have dropped the LS platform, and other than that or other expensive Jag platforms there is really nothing to build upon. As it appears that Ford is not interested in investing in a rear drive platform for Lincoln the only choice is front or AWD. The key difference vs. Cadillac is that GM beleives Cadillac is critical to their success and invests in the brand; Ford, it seems, has come to a different conclusion concerning Lincoln.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    Hello, stranger! Hope all's well with you.

    I'm still driving my 2001 Autumn Red Getrag LS. 76,000 miles and runs like new, thank you very much.

    As for Lincoln now - it's looking like burnt toast to me. Navigator finished dead last in 5 SUV comparo (and is butt-ugly for 2007 in and out) the MK Z has not, to my knowledge, been tested against anything in it's class, but IMHO, it has no class and no reason to buy it over a Mazda 6 so what's the point? The MKX has a nice rear end, the rest is shockingly bad including a go-kart like instrument panel, an AMC Spirit grille treatment and slab sides. THis is gonna compete against the RX330 or MDX? I seriously doubt it. Then in 2 years comes their flagship - a V6-powered Acura clone. Please stop it, Lincoln, you're killing me.

    PS: THe supposed excuse for dropping the LS is they lost money on every one they built. EXCUSE ME but I HIGHLY doubt that. 7 years they built the car and lost money on every one? If that's true, well bankruptcy is the proper place for them. The LS was Lincoln's future, it's path to competitiveness, a base on which to build a brand. Now, Lincoln is warmed over Mazdas and Volvos. Excuse me while I lose my lunch and head for a Japanese car dealership.

    BTW, JR, perhaps you know why the Continental concept was apparently never seriously considered?
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,305
    Not kidding because when I brought up the 2007 Cadillac website and being interested in the V8, the most economical sedan is the DTS with FWD. Dut to the price of the STS to begin with, I didn't venture further to learn it has RWD. As there is more than $10,000 difference between the two, it is not worth 10 grand to have a RWD Caddie, IMO.

    Base STS 52185 Base DTS 41990

    As for me, it is bad enough to take 40K out of the market just to buy a depreciating liability. :(
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    " Now, Lincoln is warmed over Mazdas and Volvos. Excuse me while I lose my lunch and head for a Japanese car dealership."

    Evidently you feel like I do, heyjewel. And that's why I'm driving a Lexus now instead of a Lincoln, and it pains me to lose my relationship to the brand I have driven since 1990.

    If they didn't lose money on EVERY LS they built, the margin was too small to justify updating it. Thunderbird was worse. At the Ford and Lincoln price points, you got a real bargain of engineering excellence for the money. With the Jag, you got pretty much the same thing in a British package with a slightly modified engine. But at that price point, it worked.

    But it's all gone now....
  • DETROIT - Ford Motor Co. has told the United Auto Workers Union that it would offer a buyout package to all of its 75,000 U.S. factory workers as part of an accelerated turnaround plan, a union official said on Thursday...The news comes a day before the automaker is expected to announce a sweeping restructuring plan....The long-anticipated announcement, which is expected to include more plant closings and employee layoffs, will be detailed in a statement scheduled to be released at 7 a.m. EDT
  • I just read this and honestly, I got angry.

    Ford Woes

    The dopes that have been running this company didn't just passively watch something occur, they killed it.

    Look at the plants being closed and their products: Town Car, Ranger, Crown Victoria, Taurus and even the Expedition/Navigator Michigan Truck plant.

    Everyone of those one time great products has been killed through utter neglect. The mismanagement this company and it's workers, and (in a nod to Doug) American Industry as a whole, have suffered is so wrong, it seems criminal.
  • I suspect the reason for no Continental is that the investment was simply too great at a time when Ford has had to be very careful with its investment dollars (see recent news). Lincoln, in my opinion, is simply not a priority for Ford, and will be less so in the future given the corporate situation. So what is happening is that those in charge of Lincoln are attempting to come up with a competitive product line with little investment. This is hard to do and remain a real, competitive luxury brand.

    The LS did not, when I worked on it, lose money. However, with recent incentives it might have got to that point--but again that gets down to lack of investment to make the vehicle competitive. Little investment=non-competitive product=high incentives=low profits. The LS was meant to be the start of a new Lincoln but things did not work out as succeed in the hyper competitive luxury market you need commitment and investment; otherwise you are marginal at best.
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