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Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?

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Comments

  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Sorry, but you can not compare the two at all. The CTS and MKZ are in totally different leagues. The Cadillac is not a FWD economy car with some extra nice trim and a larger engine added to it. The CTS is a purpose built car.

    The Montego I did get confused with the Milan. The Milan is the deal, if you want that style and not the Lincoln. The Montego/FiveHundred, if not so plain jane looking, is actually a good car. One of those technically, it is correct, less expensive Volvo cars as a Ford. Not bad - just not too exciting. That said, the Montego is attractive in its own way.

    If you are talking modified cars as a bargain, Cadillac did that with the Cavalier to Cimmeron. already. So Lincoln does the same -- big deal. Must admit it is a Bold, if not silly Move. :confuse:
    -Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well the AWD does use the Rear Wheels to a point and you'd be surprised just how good of a handler this car will actually be. I guess if they can compare a FWD Acura TL to a CTS, in many car comparo's it's fair game unless you get technical. I guess we both should test drive one for fun, before we get ahead of ourselves. It's not like they are going to hold a gun to our head and tell us we buy it. ;)

    Rocky
  • guyfrguyfr Posts: 55
    Bethanybreeze,

    You don't know what you are talking about.

    Volvo reliability has steadily improved like everybody else. My 2 2004 Volvo's are way better than my 1988 was. Thats the one which left me stranded on the side of the road.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Some people prefer FWD. Those people have many more choices in cars these days. I own and have owned plenty of FWD cars. Too many, and don't care to buy the next one in FWD. The RWD is, IMHO simply superior in say 8 out of 10 scenarios in driving, feel, and durability / simplicity. Transmissions feel better - sound better. Not the heavy front nose syndrome on RWD. Car is better balanced, braking is better too. When punched, the spinning wheels do not throw tire smoke out front. You think the dang car is on fire with FWD. :D When you hit the slightest bump, you feel like the car is crashing into it compared to a RWD car. Once you own a FWD for years, or should I say people that have only driven FWD may not notice a lot of differences until exposed to proper wheel driven cars.

    Rocky, if you have lots of ice, and maybe some snow in your part of Texas, that AWD would be a good thing. I would get a Legacy AWD. That is a company which knows their AWD. Or get an Audi.
    -Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    As a whole, the reliability of Volvo, if you believe in CR data, is not all that impressive. Some models look improved, but be picky. There are still some problematic models at Volvo. Considering price and price of parts, this is not a good thing. One or two models in the line may be worth considering.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Some people prefer FWD. Those people have many more choices in cars these days. I own and have owned plenty of FWD cars. Too many, and don't care to buy the next one in FWD. The RWD is, IMHO simply superior in say 8 out of 10 scenarios in driving, feel, and durability / simplicity. Transmissions feel better - sound better. Not the heavy front nose syndrome on RWD. Car is better balanced, braking is better too. When punched, the spinning wheels do not throw tire smoke out front. You think the dang car is on fire with FWD. When you hit the slightest bump, you feel like the car is crashing into it compared to a RWD car. Once you own a FWD for years, or should I say people that have only driven FWD may not notice a lot of differences until exposed to proper wheel driven cars.

    Can't disagree with you here. :P ;)

    Rocky, if you have lots of ice, and maybe some snow in your part of Texas, that AWD would be a good thing.

    Loren, we get all of the above pal. It sometimes gets worse here than it does in Michigan, because of the wind. The brutual wind and sunshine rapidly melts the snow during the daytime, and by night time you have roads that Michelle Kwan's, blades would easily grip. ;) It doesn't snow much, but when it does it rivals the worst blizzards I seen in Michigan. You can get a couple of feet over a few days-week or so and then the severe melting begins with a warm up. Texans don't have the slightest clue on plowing roads which makes a dangerous matter worse Loren. :surprise:

    I would get a Legacy AWD. That is a company which knows their AWD. Or get an Audi.
    -Loren


    Both make superb AWD systems. So does Acura with it's SH-AWD, which IMHO is the best on the market. I pretty much think all AWD systems are pretty darn good like Volvo/Ford/Mazda's and now Lincolns Haledex? of course created by Volvo. Some like infiniti call theirs "intellegent awd" and the most basic units usually do a 60/40 RWD/FWD plit. Some send the tq. to the wheels that need it most, others send front to rear.

    So yeah AWD is a good option and even on dry pavement with the amount of wind we have blowing debris (sand) here daily, AWD can enhance safety and performance. Audi's Quattro system wasn't banned from racing for the heck of it. So in some cases 4 wheels are better than just 2. Full Grip of AWD vs. 2 slipping/squealing wheels has advantages in certain situations. ;)

    So the bottom line is Lincoln, now has a proven very capable system. :)

    My $0.02

    Rocky
  • I sure miss DouglasR.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Where did he go I wonder. :( I agree I liked reading his posts.

    Rocky

    P.S. I miss rorr, on the boards. :( Luckily I occassionally talk to him via e-mail.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Lincoln Celebrates New James Bond Movie With Martini Making and Marksmanship Training

    DEARBORN, Mich. — Lincoln is tapping into what it figures is the secret desire of the automotive media to be secret agents for a day, as it celebrates the premiere of Casino Royale later this month.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=117498

    Rocky
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    With Ford in the financial trouble that it's in, market share erosion, and with putting AM & possibly Jaguar on the block, what are the thoughts of the board if/when the sale(s) go through?

    Do any of you think Ford will take the money, or some of it, and shore up Lincoln's line?

    Or will they only use the monies to help Ford itself, and let the other units, particularly in this case Lincoln, soldier on as is?

    If Lincoln was to be "Oldsmobiled", do any of you think buyers, whether current or potential, would move up to the PAG group, down to Ford / Mercury, or "defect" to the competition?

    Can the rebadges work for Lincoln? Can these products be competitive in the near-luxury and/or luxury markets?
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    I would make the Mercury Milan the Fusion, or Ford Milan. The same with all the rest of the Merc line, then dump to name plate. Lincoln would be the premium models of Ford/Mazda, as in Ford Zephyr. Mercury/Lincoln is history. The only true luxury line is the Jaguar. Perhaps they could sell Jag to BMW.

    Personally, I would see a good Ford line up as the Euro Focus sold in USA as the base car, then the Milan. Next up a modern day, with some retro hints Ford Fairlane or Galaxie in RWD. Then keep the Gran Marque as a Ford Marque, and upgrade the interior and exterior. Update the Mustang with a modern interior, with easier to read speedometer, and some chrome or anything to spruce up the dull exterior. Maybe lose the sad face up front somehow. No, don't put the happy face from Chevy or Saturn on it. :D As for crossover Fairlane project - who cares. Boring cars can be produced by anyone. Econo cars can best be made by Korea. Cut the lines down to good solid performers, and start working in more RWD. And no AWD is not the same as RWD. Remember the days when the lower priced Fords had style, like a Falcon or Fairlane 500? Even sporty with a V8. And yes, not a road track racer due to typical handling of that era, but fast enough in a straight line. In today's market, I would like to see one with an inline 6 around 210HP and another one with around 255HP or so as an inline or V6. Possibly make a V8 as a special car SVT, in a couple models. Maybe the Ford Marque, and the Fairlane 500.
    -Loren
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    Euro Focus is coming but not until 2010. They're bringing in a Mazda based B car to slot under the Focus aimed at the Fit, etc. Ford realizes that it can't compete with the Koreans and (soon) Chinese on price. Expect more features and functionality for a slighly higher (justified hopefully) price at lower volumes and higher profit levels.

    A lot of the Lincoln/Mercury lineup is driven by the need to keep L/M only dealers in business. Don't see that changing.

    Ford will invest in Lincoln eventually - it just wasn't the priority in the past. Think about it - Ford had to develop a brand new mustang and significantly modified F150 followed by a brand new 500/montego/freestyle followed by a brand new Fusion/Milan/Zephyr followed by the Edge/MKX. Now that the car and CUV markets are covered with new products they can focus (no pun intended) on Lincoln and possibly Mercury.

    The problem with Lincoln is there are no suitable RWD sedan platforms readily available as was the case with the CD3 and D3 platforms. I'm sure they're working on it and I think they'll have a smaller Lincoln based on the new Mustang platform. These things take time.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Especially with Ford. The layers of authority and bureaucracy that demand to sign off on any new plans are allegedly being paired down though. We'll see. It would be great if Ford could at least speed up to Chrysler's pace of bringing concepts to market.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    We know the beancounters are no longer making product decisions - that's a start. Mulally and Fields both sound like very impatient managers, so I'd say there's a very good chance that they'll get things streamlined. Only question is how long it will take.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    "We know the beancounters are no longer making product decisions "

    Seriously, the review I just saw of the Edge or emmkayexx complained that the thing had no assist handles and that it was a pretty obvious cost cutting measure. Not to mention that the interior materials are below par compared with everyhting else. Not to mention D-L shifter, ... I don't know why we cant strike a reasoned position here, but your quote above makes no sense to me.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Remember the days when the lower priced Fords had style, like a Falcon or Fairlane 500? Even sporty with a V8. And yes, not a road track racer due to typical handling of that era, but fast enough in a straight line. In today's market, I would like to see one with an inline 6 around 210HP and another one with around 255HP or so as an inline or V6. Possibly make a V8 as a special car SVT, in a couple models.

    Have you driven an Australian  Ford lately? Unfortunately, no one in a position of authority at Ford Motor Co. knows how to make a left-hand-drive version of these cars.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    C'mon George - Fields has been there less than a year and Mulally only a few weeks. You can't possibly think they could have made any serious changes to the Edge/MKX - it was "in the can" way before they took over, especially Mulally. I'm talking about products that they have a chance to influence.

    I know you're not exactly optimistic but at least give them a chance to deliver on what they're saying.

    I do agree with you on the cost cutting not being wise, but I give them a little credit for making things like the Vista Roof and Navigation available on the Edge. Even that wouldn't have happened a few years ago.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    No, but I did at one time view the V8 racing in Australia on TV. Amazing how we are stuck with FWD cheapo cars, with NASCAR autos having nothing at all to do with what we drive on the streets.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Do any of you think Ford will take the money, or some of it, and shore up Lincoln's line?

    IF they sell all of the PAG or maybe all but Volvo, I think they'll have to fix Lincoln, or get out of the luxury car business altogether. Lots of IFs......
  • ehaaseehaase Posts: 328
    I think they'll have to fix Lincoln, or get out of the luxury car business altogether.

    I could see Ford get out of the car business altogether in North America and become primarily a truck manufacturer. The only Ford car anyone is passionate about is the Mustang. Does anyone really care about the Mazda and Volvo based sedans that have debuted the past few years? Besides Rockylee, who cares about the MKS?
  • Does anyone really care about the Mazda and Volvo based sedans that have debuted the past few years?

    Since you asked, I care. I happen to like the conservative but practical Five Hundred and Montego. I think the Fusion and Milan look good. I hope Lincoln does the MKS right.

    I care because I don't want to see Ford and Lincoln out of the car business.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Yes, people do care about Mazda. The Miata is a very good convertible, if you fit in those narrow seats. Seems the latest one has more narrow seats, and I really don't fit in the new car. The Mazda6 and 3 are good handling FWD cars. If I was looking for a FWD car, Mazda would be on the list. The Milan is nice looking car based on the Mazda. Fusion and Milan are selling. Are they Lincoln quality? I somehow don't see them as a Lincoln at all. As for Volvo based Montego, it looks like a value to me, if that is your thing. Not a sports sedan, but for size, drivability, safety, in a more formal looking pleasing enough style, it is something people should care about. It is not for me perhaps, but I do see the value. Hope the parts are half those of a Volvo. Your question was do people care. In this case, I do believe not enough do about this car. I don't think it is selling all that well.
    -Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    We are "2" peas in a pot on the Lincoln MKS subject. :)

    Rocky
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,738
    good questions!
    if am/jag are sold, i guess ford would put the money where they think they need it most. where that is, i don't know.
    it still leaves some friction from volvo for lincoln.
    GM does not have 'in house' competition for cadillac.
    foreign nameplates still have a perceived advantage of domestics, not just referring to cars.
  • ehaaseehaase Posts: 328
    Since you asked, I care. I happen to like the conservative but practical Five Hundred and Montego. I think the Fusion and Milan look good. I hope Lincoln does the MKS right.

    The public does not care, however. In October, sales of the Five Hundred, Freestyle, and Montego were 6,010, 3,297, and 1,508, respectively, compared to 7,915, 6,707, and 2,016 for October, 2005. The cars are flops, and I happen to like the styling of the D3's. I don't think that there are huge numbers of buyers sitting around, waiting for the 3.5L V6 next year.

    Sales of the Fusion, Milan, and Zephyr/MKZ were 9,908, 2,229, and 2,288 in October. Sales of GM's Epsilon trio, Malibu, G6, and Aura,were 9,886, 11,273, and 4,661, respectively. Nissan sold 14,761 Altimas. Honda sold 23,645 Accords. Toyota sold 33,812 Camrys. The public doesn't seem very interested in the CD3 triplets either.

    I am a lifelong Ford fan, but I grow more pessimistic by the day. If Ford went out of business, I think that only Mustang fans and businesses that the Super Dutys and Econolines would be upset.
  • ehaaseehaase Posts: 328
    Yes, people do care about Mazda. The Miata is a very good convertible, if you fit in those narrow seats. Seems the latest one has more narrow seats, and I really don't fit in the new car. The Mazda6 and 3 are good handling FWD cars. If I was looking for a FWD car, Mazda would be on the list. The Milan is nice looking car based on the Mazda. Fusion and Milan are selling. Are they Lincoln quality? I somehow don't see them as a Lincoln at all.

    My issues is not with Mazda, but with the Mazda based sedans now being sold at Ford. I think I showed in my post above that the Fusion and Milan are not selling well at all.

    While we're on the subject of Mazda, the new CX-7 was its second most popular vehicle last month, selling 4,272. Most every other Mazda declined in sales. The 3 sold 5,987, compared to 8,241 last year. The 6 was down to 3,865 from 5,092. The MX-5 sold 1,020, compared to 1,236 last year. The RX-8 sold 640, compared to 1,212 last year. The 5 was up to 928, from 92 last year.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    Here in California I see more new Camrys in a day than I've seen Fusion + Milan + Z in a year. And 500/Montego? A very few. They are the epitome of BORING. They're practically invisible. That said, supposedly Ford is going to 'freshen them' and if that results in more exciting looks, along with putting the 3.5 V6 in them, they may actually begin to sell. They seem to be fairly functional vehicles.

    I think GM has a tremendous upside with it's new Epsilons. The Saturn Aura looks to be a huge hit, and the G6 has already proven to be. The Malibu styling is rather unfortunate
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Do people actually like the Inch Worm styled G6? I do see some on the road, though often wonder if they are rentals. The coupe is not too bad looking. The side profile of the sedan, and overall presence does little for me. Sort of looks like a worm inching his was along. The Aura is not a bad effort, though having the real deal, Opel may be more impressive. Evidently this is another G6 which looks like an Opel. Ah, but without the electric assist steering! Basically, it has better looks and handling, and thus something worth considering, if looking for a FWD with decent looks. Nothing to get overly excited about. The Malibu is excellent, if we were talking 1969 :shades: Using the name on the current models is an insult to a once fine model. If GM, Japan, and Korea are having success now in selling boring looking cars, how many more will Ford sell? Time for special looking cars.
    -Loren
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    "Do people actually like the Inch Worm styled G6"

    Apparently they do. Look at the numbers in ehaase's post. GM sold almost as many G6s as Ford sol Fusion and Milan put together.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,830
    Must be lotsa people in Missouri and Texas buying these...I almost never see a privately owned one out here.
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