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Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?



  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I should know this, but what do the CTS and STS share platforms with? Anyone know?

    Just each other, and the SRX.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    But why they didn't update the body panels, at the very least when the F150 was revamped, is a mystery.

    The Previous and current F-150 is a different platform than the Expedition since 03, and the panels don't fit, neither does the dash. That's why the Mark LT didn't get the Navigator interior.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Well, yes, that was my point. Why didn't they update the bodies of the Expedition and Navigator around 2003 or 2004, with the brand new 2004 F150 already in the pipeline? As it stands now, even with the tremendous changes underneath (in both 2003 and 2007 editions of the utes), both the current Expedition and Navigator are still using the old body designed off the 1997 F150. That is just stupid planning.

    BTW, unlike F150 and Expedition, the Ranger and Explorer were different platforms from the beginning (and there was never a real good reason that Ford should have spent all that money making them completely different platforms, but they did). However, Ford still found a way to hang the same dashboard in both. I think the Mark LT didn't get the Navigator interior style for cost reasons, not because it couldn't have been done.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,321
    "months later on October 17, 1945 the first post-war Cadillac rolled off the line, albeit missing certain amenities due to materials rationing."

    My father purchased the 3rd post war Chrysler Windsor to arrive here after he turned down a Black Royal. We were lucky to get a new car, but the chrome hubcaps came six months later. Some new cars were shipped without bumpers and the dealers mounted Doug Fir 2X4's until the chrome bumpers came in. Exciting times then. :)
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    "I should know this, but what do the CTS and STS share platforms with? Anyone know?

    Just each other, and the SRX."

    And this IS the right way to run an airline.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I think the Mark LT didn't get the Navigator interior style for cost reasons, not because it couldn't have been done.

    If you are right, then my Ford engineer buddy lied to me.
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    A world? Naw, maybe a small town / municipality's worth. Not a world of difference much between the Catera and the initial CTS. Had plenty of seat time in both and it wasn't that much difference. It wasn't Cavalier/Cimmaron similar, but not as much as you're trying to state IMO.

    But do agree that the new CTS is a major leap. In any event the point was that many didn't think the Catera or CTS were a "true" Caddy. Just a stopgap if you will, with some even saying "Uh-oh, another Cimmaron". An ex-coworker had a Catera and many just called it an Opel Caddy, or some other, shall we say "less-kind" words. But to each his/her own.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Probably not a lie. There are different mounting points, which would have made it a design chore...though still do-able.

    I will never figure out why the powers that be approved continued use of the 10 year old body shell for the Navigator, when the F150 provided a basis for designing a new one and not have to start from scratch. Probably for a similar nonsensical reason that led Ford to dress up the 10 year old Focus, rather than use the European platform as a base for the 2008 edition.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Excuse me, but the Catera was a front drive Opel with some Caddy flourishes added. An okay car for sure, but it did not look like a Caddy and was not initially designed to be one.

    The CTS, however, was a Caddy-only platform right from the go-shot, and rear drive to boot. I'd say they bear little relationship to one another. A casual drive might not point out dramatic differences in the way they went down the road, but those differences were there. The CTS also defined style for Cadillac. The Catera never even looked like a Cadillac.

    The 2008 CTS will now have a world class interior (the one area where the CTS really didn't measure up to the German and Japanese competition).
  • Actually, the Catera was rear wheel drive, though it was based on an Opel. The CTS is on the GM Sigma platform, and is of course also rear wheel drive.
  • Errr The catera was RWD.

    Remember the Caddy that zigs commercials.

    It was actually a decent handling car just under powered, poorly built and with akward styling.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    My bad. You are so right: RWD. The Caddy that zigs had a weight problem, as I recall.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    A very good friend was an SA at a Caddy dealer during Catera days. The accepted internal name for the car was the "Craptera"
  • Ahh sounds much like our internal name for the freelander... Freeloader.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Which brings up another off-topic question...

    While Land Rover has improved on the Freelander enormously with the LR2 version about to be released, why-oh-why did they retain so much resemblance between the new one and the sorry old Freelander? The version about to be introduced does look a bit more substantial (and obviously is), but it looks a lot more like the old Freelander crossed with a Saturn Vue than it looks like its big brother LR3.
  • The LR2 doesn't share any components with the old freelander, it shares more with the S80 then any other vehicle currently being sold in the US, but the old freelander looked ok.

    The only two positive things I ever here anyone say about the freelander are...

    1. The outside looks. Most people like the styling.
    2. How it drives. When it is working anyway.

    Remember the LR2 is still called the Freelander 2 in Europe so it needs to look a little bit like the old freelander.

    Err on topic...

    Err lincoln is in bad shape err yeah. :(
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    I know it doesn't share any components with the old truck. So why still look like it does? Contrary to what you may think, the Freelander's looks did not sell it, because the styling was too much like the original Honda CRV, and about as substantial and pricey looking as a Ford Escape. It wasn't bad looking at just did not look like $30,000+.

    Now, we get a new Land Rover that still looks like an attractive, small economy ute. The thing needed either a dose of butch, or looks that emulated the LR3 (or even the Range Rover). It looks like neither. Once you remove the baby, sort of, Land Rover grill, it could be anything from Japan or GM.

    Yes, Lincoln is in the worst shape of all Ford divisions, save Jaguar. Plans are to resurrect the bramd from its present mess, but it has to limp along with a second rate lineup for a couple years first.
  • Ehh that goes against what most people I talk to.

    I was just talking to a woman, less then ten minutes ago, today about her freelander and she loves the looks and the drives. She doesn't like the problems she has had with it but her problems have so far been minor... Knock on wood.

    I am going to the LR2 training towards the end of march beginning of April so I will get to see things much more in depth. I will see the car in person next week when one of our reps brings one in. According to the people I know who have been in the car the fit and finish are about on par with the Range Rover sport. So we are talking about a 35-40k vehicle with the fit and finish of a 60-75k vehicle.

    Oh interesting story on Jag here...

    Supercharged plan to save jag axed

    full article
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,666
    I have mulled over the "corners like a locomotive" phrase and cannot figure it out...does that mean it corners very well, like a good handling machine, or corners like a 1965 Caddy Brougham Boat???...:):):):):)
  • douglasrdouglasr Posts: 191
    The $880Mn to $1.2Bn that Ford Motor will receive for Astons can have an appropriate home: Revamping the Town Car/Crown Vic-Marquis chassis. Alex Troutman demanded, after a write-it campaign by Mustang owners pleading with the Ford CEO not to kill Mustang by rebadging from a FWD Cougar and making it at Flat Rock---Ford received 750,000 letters from people all over America---that the design team for Mustang spend: "$750 Million and not a dime more". The platform and heritage was saved, and now is a leading product at Ford once again.

    The efficacy of retaining the Taurus name needs no explaination, and it is only a surprise that A.R.M. did not order this on his second day on the job as CEO. The corresponding Sable wagon I owned was like the trucks: it got the job done without a lot of fuss. It was my "works" car, doing the skut work when I did not want to smirch up the Lincoln, in short a tough car. Therein Lincoln has the chance now to capitalise on the cash-brought-in.

    Using the funds from Astons to rekindle the Town-Car at St. Thomas on a crash "war-time" program directed by a special task force of "ARMS-MEN" in a basement studio turns the trick. It was done for Lincoln-Continental in 1958 for the 1961 model year. The full clay model was completed the last week of July 1958, approval given in August, and thence development began. Driving prototypes out of Wixom eighteen months later in December 1959. The rushed production of the '61 caused a late intro in November 1960, but well worth the waiting. The car saved Lincoln, and as I have outlined in detail previously, was under the threat of cancellation by Robert S. McNamara.

    Marek Reichmann, designer of Astons, created the "Rapide" four-door on a napkin. "The concept developed in sketches, eventually in clay,and finally in hand-beaten aluminum, It added another 40mm to the height of the DB9 as well as an extra 250mm in the wheelbase." TOP GEAR staffwriter Michael Harvey commented in a first review of the January 2006 Detroit Show Car. This was accomplished in six months. Work in earnest did not begin until the summer of 2005. Granted Rapide was a show car, and plans are afoot now to make it to production, but the car is real and whetted the appetites of potential customers.

    Mark S and Mark R have been borne of existing Ford Motor platforms, the one nondescript, and the other rather interesting. The same process used for Rapide, Mark S/R could be used to revamp Town Car. Though one can argue about the efficacy of spending money on a platform that is now rather long in the tooth, Cadillac has regained some of its cache because it re-entered certain segments of the market, and was badly hurt (to the benefit of Lincoln) when its stopped making RWD chassis. Its return to that format in part with the help of AWD has spurred its renascence. Lincoln can do the same, and would benefit from NOT having left the RWD market.

    Sales of the TC were increasing at the time of the St. Thomas announcement, pre-empting disaster when Ford announced closure of the venerable Wixom Plant. Thus while the Australian-Ford chassis revamp for a RWD TC moves on one page, the "full scale" Lincoln could remain on another. The ARMSMEN could do it with the Astons cash. This would also give the team a chance to drastically up-rate the now bland and dowdy looking interiors. Take a page from Martin Winterkorn at Audi who dramatically improved the QC levels and amenities found in their products.

    Like the 'Whiz-kids' before them a team of 'ARMSMEN' could be assigned point-projects that deserve critical levels of attention. Ford Motor has enough salaried staff on hand to devote 100 individuals every day to a single problem. If even 15% of those are engineers and another 10% designers, then the chance remains that Lincoln can lead the divisions and The Blue Oval back to a healthy status. It took eighteen months to get Willow Run up and running from a San Diego Hotel room sketch by Charles Sorensen, to the first KD units rolling off the line.

    Today we have the advantage of CAD/CAM, thus it is possible to bring out a new Town Car by the spring of 2008 as a 2009 model. The Australian derived project could be a spin-off model that will carry further weight past 2010. However, I still stick to my original "Springfield Plan" to build a state-of-the-art factory within the Continental United States (if Toyota and Nissan can do it, so can we...) to show the world what the Armsmen are really capable of. Such a factory would be the preserve of Lincoln and Continental, and like Astons, use variable "V/H" architecture in order to meet "swing" demand in the market-place as tastes, and economic realities change. Ford Motor could easily place existing revamped chassis into a new factory.

    ...not to mention the degree of benefit in announcing a "state of the art" factory devoted to Lincoln. The time required to get the factory up and running could also cloak development of a new car. Cadillac did that in 1927-29 when it developed the V16. Such an announcement would lead every major news broadcast in America. My question is: are the ARMSMEN up to the task?


    (sources: Top Gear Magazine February 2006, WSJ, FT, ibid.)
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