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Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?

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Comments

  • speculatorspeculator Posts: 116
    Was the LS a pure Lincoln or was it based on a Jaguar platform?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    It was on a platform jointly developed with Jaguar. You said all Lincolns are based on a Ford platform. Not quite true.

    The writing is on the wall. Mulally is moving Ford upmarket (like the new Taurus) and will be moving Lincoln upmarket as well - once they're back in the black and have taken care of the immediate business needs (Fiesta, Explorer, new Focus, etc.). They won't be in the Bentley class but expect some higher end RWD luxury platforms down the road. GRWD was the first step but funds had to be diverted. That doesn't mean the idea is dead and gone.
  • speculatorspeculator Posts: 116
    Where do you get your info about rwd? Right now there is a better chance of discontinuing the Lincoln brand then there is of a future rwd car. The sales of the Lincoln products across the board is very bleak. It's the same with other brands. But could Ford continue to produce a brand that at best in good conditions sells about 70 thousand vehicles? Some of the deals that I am making to move the MKS' are up to 7000 k off list depending on the retail price along with incentives from Ford. I am sure that others are making the same deals along with other incentives. Even with these incentives only 1760 MKS' were moved last month. Ford had a break even point of about 25 thousand MKS sold vehicles for the first year and that didn't take account of present conditions. There is no way that a profit could be produced from the present deals that are offered to move product. The upscale price increases on the MKS are due to mainly making more items as standard. It would only mean that a bigger discount off price would be offered if the present conditions continue.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    Mulally said publicly that Lincoln would be going RWD and that was the global RWD program where North America and Australia would share platforms. This is right in line with the global platform sharing mantra and makes perfect sense since both markets can support RWD car platforms. He also said Lincoln would be the volume brand, not Mercury.

    What happened was simple - with the economy and gas prices Ford had to reprioritize platform development and the Fiesta and other European small cars and smaller, more fuel efficient powertrains have a much bigger payback and better business case than larger luxury and/or performance sedans.

    Mulally is still commited to pushing Lincoln higher (should be obvious based on what they did with the Taurus) and to use RWD platforms - they just don't have the money to do it right now. Ford has to be fixed first, then Lincoln, then Mercury. If they get the first 2 right then they may not need Mercury or they can make it a specialized brand without worrying about giving L/M dealers volume.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,676
    "It would only mean that a bigger discount off price would be offered if the present conditions continue"...or, if one waits until one year old cars are traded in, we might get half off MSRP with the probably massive depreciation...
  • I really believe that Ford would never produce a pure Lincoln. One that is not based on an underlying Ford platform.

    That tired tune again. So Lincoln is based on a Ford platform. Acuras are based on Honda platforms (heck, the TSX is, or at least used to be, an overseas Honda Accord). Lexuses are based on Toyota platforms. Infinities are based on Nissan platforms. I've seen Lexuses with obvious Toyota switchgear and Acuras with obvious Honda switchgear. I’d bet Audi and Volkswagon share lots, too. Sit in one, then the other, and you can certainly tell they share the same DNA. Everybody does it, it’s just that some have done it better than Ford/Lincoln: less obviously, with unique sheetmetal and interiors. Lincoln is getting less obvious about it now, too.
  • emrnibbles1emrnibbles1 Posts: 48
    .
    Why waist your money on a upscale Ford? Acura was to have the next gen RL based on the new NSX chassis. Even Acura realized that a genuine prestige brand needs a high end rwd vehicle. One that is truly upscale. Now it's been cancelled because of the recession. I presume that Ford did the same because of similar reasons. I read the article where a Ford brass hat said that "Ford wants to focus on fuel economy using rwd funds for that purpose." A Lincoln should be large and with grandeur and superb in engineering using rwd as to match the true marks of automotive engineering. Two for examples are BMW and Mercedes. Mercedes and BMW have makes that are near Lincoln's price category. Are other less costly marks sharing the same platforms with BMW and Mercedes besides Chrysler which uses a donated second hand outdated Mercedes platform? If it's good enough for BMW and Mercedes it's good enough for Lincoln.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,347
    A Lincoln should be large and with grandeur and superb in engineering using rwd as to match the true marks of automotive engineering.

    Ford had such a motorcar in the form of the Jaguar XJ8L, but they sold it to an Indian company.

    Ta ta!
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Ford had such a motorcar in the form of the Jaguar XJ8L, but they sold it to an Indian company.

    Yes, and JUST when I was about to buy one too.....now, I'm afraid to.
  • emrnibbles1emrnibbles1 Posts: 48
    It is a shame that Ford did that. But the question is now what about Lincoln? How to make a snob such as I am interested in buying one? I hope everyone forgives me for being one, but I 've been working since 15 years old to become one and I do so enjoy it now. I wrote about an American Bentley? A higher end Lincoln doesn't have to be in the Bentley's price range. It just has to have something that is not based on something that I could purchase at a Ford store. On Lincoln's lower end vehicles it may be OK to share underpinnings as long as those underpinnings are modified for the better for Lincoln. But on Lincoln's signature model there should be something more special about it. I put myself through college working as a parking attendant at a fancy restaurant. I would always seen patrons with higher priced foreign priced vehicles but the American car that always got my attention was the MarkV. Big and sloppy as it was. But I always wondered what it would be like to have a good looking American car such as that Lincoln along with the performance and engineering of the worlds best.
  • emrnibbles1emrnibbles1 Posts: 48
    With the Automotive sector of the economy as it presently is there will be a number of closed auto plants that would be put up for sale. Such an idea as a investment group purchasing one could be possible. Ford would just have to agree to sell Lincoln.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,207
    A Lincoln should be large and with grandeur and superb in engineering using rwd as to match the true marks of automotive engineering.

    LIKE THIS!!!

    image
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,676
    Keep dreaming...they are gone forever...
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I do not condemn your self-proclaimed snobbery - rather admire it because of the achievement. I too admired the Mark V, and I don't think it's yet impossible that such a flagship for Lincoln may appear someday. I think Mullaly is going to pull Ford out of her ditch - and she will look much different that she does today, but she'll be well respected. Not the largest, but with Toyota like reputation. Now, the difference is, will it last beyond the next CEO, which has always been Ford's downfall. No consistency. Cadillac came back from behind to be well respected with really, a pretty dismal lineup if you ask me. They are good cars, but they are small, fairly unimpressive, but fast little cars. It worked. Lincoln can do it too, although I hope they offer a more diversified lineup that Cadillac does. Something larger, but just as competent as their smaller car. And, sigh... I hope they drop the MK designation...... I understand what they were trying to do there, but it doesn't work for me.
  • And, sigh... I hope they drop the MK designation......

    Oh, I wish they would drop that, too, and return to names.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,347
    Fear not Friend. You can still buy an Indian Jag without the RED dot in the middle of the grill! ;)
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Naw, the shine is off the apple now with the company being owned by TATA. Driving a British Ford was one thing - driving a British TATA leaves me quite less fulfilled......
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,676
    But if you buy a 2007 or earlier, you ARE buying a British Ford...if you don't mind pre-owned...
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,347
    "buy a 2007 or earlier"

    Only on the Right coast and SE have I seen low mileage Radiance 2005 XJ8L's for sale at excellent prices. Now, if one were to pop up in the great NW, I'd be tempted to at least visit it.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,333
    Is Radiance some kind of red?

    A friend of mine looked at an 05 LWB, loaded, they wanted something like 23K. With the good record the modern Jags have been receiving, seems like a ton of car for the money.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,347
    Yes, a dark Red metallic. The interior is usually Champagne or off White. :)
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,333
    Light interiors are nice...I wish the Germans had embraced them earlier.

    If I was going after a XJ I'd hunt down a Super, they all depreciate so hard, might as well go over the top.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,347
    Agree with you, but Super Radiance low miler L's are rather rare out there.
  • alman08alman08 Posts: 282
    what's wrong with Tata motor? Tata Corp sure is more successful than any one of the big 3s here in the USA, and probably better than many corps here in the USA.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,333
    What progress or innovation has Tata given to the motor industry? I define success by those as well.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,676
    I will go one step further...who exactly is Tata Motors???...I confess I never heard of them until "someone is buying Jaguar"...maybe I live under a rock, but just who are they???

    And, regardless of who they are, they bought Jag AFTER Ford put all that $$$ into them to upgrade them, so, unless they totally screw up everything, looks like they bought a nicely improved turn-key operation, with Jag at the top of JD Power...
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,333
    Tata is India's largest business conglomerate, a significant force in many diverse industries in that region. IIRC, the CEO of the company is always family too, which can be a positive or a negative...I don't embrace the inheritance aspect of old cultures, myself. Nepotism and cronyism are the most destructive barriers to any kind of progress.

    I agree about the Jag sentiment...buying a house after it has been renovated doesn't mean you get to take credit for the work. When upgrades can be shown to have been undertaken during Tata's stewardship, then I will give credit.

    And I have to add, it still cracks me up to see the British motor industry now controlled by Germans, Indians, and a Russian. The sun has set.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,963
    Always family but the tradition is that the CEO doesn't marry and appoints his successor when it's time to step down.

    I think the Fords marry as they please.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • alman08alman08 Posts: 282
    exactly what I thought... what you don't know doesn't mean what don't exist.
    all you need to know by now is that they have the $ to buy both jag and land rover.
    at the very least you should know that "google" is right on top of your screen on that thingy called the tool bar... simply type in "tata motor", "tata corp" and perhaps you can learn something new...
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