Honda Fit

raychuang00

The European Accord is sold as the Acura TSX in the US, and I just compared pictures of the two and the bumpers appear identical.

It should be noted that the Acura TSX is far more luxurious than any European-market Accord, mostly because of a much more well-equipped interior, more sporting suspension and the fact it uses a K24 engine derivative rated at 205 bhp (SAE 08/04 net). As such, car is far more a sports sedan than even the top-end European Accord with its 160 bhp 2.0-liter K20 derivative engine or 138 bhp i-CTDi turbodiesel engine.

I do expect the US-market Fit to weigh as much as 40-50 kilograms more than the Fit/Jazz models sold elsewhere in the world due to the extra safety features installed (including NHTSA-mandated 2.5 mph bumpers), which will likely rule out the use of the L13A i-DSI engine.

edouard

Honda US has made a pledge that all of their vehicles will have ABS, front-side airbags, and side curtain airbags by the end of 2006.

By law ABS is mandatory in France (and in all Europe I suppose), a car manufacturer can't sell a (new) car that doesn't have ABS safety features, front airbags are mandatory as well, but most cars released after 1999 have side airbags as well minimum and the new ones like the new Yaris have 8 airbags standard. As you said the Euro/NCAP is just as stringent (if not more so in certain areas) than the US test, so the safety options should be any different and IMO the cars should weight about the same.

edouard

It should be noted that the Acura TSX is far more luxurious than any European-market Accord, mostly because of a much more well-equipped interior, more sporting suspension and the fact it uses a K24 engine derivative rated at 205 bhp (SAE 08/04 net). As such, car is far more a sports sedan than even the top-end European Accord with its 160 bhp 2.0-liter K20 derivative engine or 138 bhp i-CTDi turbodiesel engine.

The fact is that the Accord never been considered as a luxury car here, but more like an ordinary one, moreover Accords have almost disappeared around as Honda didn't have any diesel engine to offer. Finally Honda came up with this great 140bhp diesel engine, one of the very best one on the market and Accords, CRV's, FRV's sales seem to benefit from it lately.

Same idea with VW Passat and Jetta which have always been considered as very ordinary (good) cars here (unlike Audi which has more prestige) and you very rarely see a full loaded Passat. The VW Jetta doesn't sell here at all and never has (the Golf does), I can see that in US or Canada, the Jetta sales are much better than the Golf and is always sold full loaded with leather seat ...etc, and is considered as a little Mercedes when it's just not the case here.

edouard

It's priced about the same as the Honda Jazz/Fit but comes with 90bhp diesel engine and gas engine. I find the retail prices pretty expensive. It's 11 cm longer than the previous model, the car is wider too and the trunk is bigger.

http://fr.cars.yahoo.com/article/toyota-yaris_2-10697-1126814721.html

http://www.nouvelle-yaris.com/

http://munisai.miyamoto.free.fr/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=495

sniffles

to this article. I don't know if this has been posted before but here it is. It sounds like a 1.3 liter and a 1.5 liter engine will be available.

http://hondapreview.com/fit/index.htm

backy

Maybe the best news in that article is that the name may not be "Fit" in the U.S.

edouard

http://hondapreview.com/fit/index.htm

The picture isn't showing the nice restyled dashboard but the cheaper one which comes with the entry level Jazz/Fit. The UK website shows that the Jazz is priced very high in UK , the sport CVT is 5000$ more than in France, the metallic painting is 350€ (420$) in France and 350£ (620$) in UK...quite a difference isn't it?

hungarian83

The picture isn't showing the nice restyled dashboard but the cheaper one which comes with the entry level Jazz/Fit

I check this website periodically to see if information has changed, and those pictures have been up for quite a while...way before it was certain that the US would even be getting the Fit. I think the purpose of that picture is just to show what the general layout of the dashboard is, rather than what the US will be getting.

edouard, on Honda France's website, I noticed that although the Jazz 1,2 is available only with manual, the two 1,4 trim lines have both manual and CVT available. How popular are automatic transmissions in France?

edouard

How popular are automatic transmissions in France?

Although automatic transmissions aren't very popular in France, we are getting there...very slowly but it's increasing, I think it's about 7% of all the car sales now.
But the CVT automatic transmission is popular on the Jazz, cuz the CVT is just great and can work manually like a F1 with the 7 gears on the steering wheel and it's very good on gas, I would say that the Jazz has to be ordered with the CVT automatic transmissions and the reviewers advise so as well.
We get now 2 types of automatic transmissions in France, the real automatic ones and the robotized gearboxes, the robotized gearbox is getting popular because it's cheaper and the gas mileage is the same as the regular stickshift car.

plekto

Jazz - definately better. The reason they changed it for the U.K. - the mentality, likes, desires, and so on - the culture in the U.S. is very close to that of the U.K. - at least when we're talking about the average working person and not the politics/media. Ie - whatever works in the U.K. - it will guaranteed work in California.

Yaris sounds like - I dunno - some made up word.

Fit sounds like - like it's going to get a lot of jokes "barely fit into it" "fit it in a shoebox" and so on - in the U.S., it'll be immediately associated with *size* instead of "fitting" desires/needs. Bad bad move, like Ford's Apsire - a name destined to kill sales and be the brunt of jokes. It's just the way American and U.K. minds work. The word "Fit" is always associated with size and usually the lack thereof or difficulty in making something work.

Jazz... It works better. It's aimed squarely at the young first-time buyer crowd. Show it running around in New Orleans in adds - make a big deal that there is a frugal alternative now that gas worries are foremost on U.S. minds. An option that is affordable for working peolpe. (I'm sure an ad dept could do much better with the concept or something simmilar) There's ten times the positive mileage associated with the word as opposed to "Fit", and basically no negatives in U.S. minds.(since Jazz/Blues is quite possibly the only purely American musical invention).

jonniedee

If you hadn't noticed New Orleans ain't exactly all that popular a destiination right now in the U.S.
Also honda already sells a TINY 50cc scooter under the JAZZ name for sometime here in the states :P
Mexico already has Fit's flying out the door so...

woknwo

Does anyone know if the Fit can be towed behind a motor home if it is an automatic? When they come out, I am planning on buying one right away here in San Diego. I would like the flexibility to tow it..and hope I'm not limited to the 5-speed as my only option..just tired of shifting.. also anyone know how much they weigh?

raychuang00

Does anyone know if the Fit can be towed behind a motor home if it is an automatic?

I believe that Honda will likely provide instructions on how to tow a Fit when that car becomes available in March 2006. I can see that vehicle being extremely popular among the RV crowd, since the car's relatively low weight (my guess of the US version is around 2,350 pounds) makes it easy to tow around with today's motorhomes.

plekto

So Jazz is already taken - um - Metro is already taken... I'm sure they could come up with something decent.

vcarreras

Why not Airwave! I for one wish we could have a third choice, the Airwave. Make it their lux EX or LEX.

http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/airwave/

Who knows. Honda may surprise us.

raychuang00

I believe that Honda has announced that the car will be called Fit in the USA/Canada market to avoid confusion with the Jazz scooter sold in Canada. After all, the Mexican-market car is called Fit, also.

backy

Plus think of all the marketing possibilities: Fit to be tied! Fit as a fiddle! Fit-ness craze! If the Fit fits, drive it! Don't have a Fit! (oh, maybe not that one...)

nippononly

It better NOT be called the Fit. I always assumed it would have a different name here. What's so wrong with using the Jazz name? Jazz sounds OK - you can buy a Jazz, or for a little more you can get a Civic. :-)

odman

I strongly prefer the name Jazz. It sounds more upbeat, fun, energetic and youthful. Remember, this is the car that Honda needs to be able to stand up to Scion with. They need more emotion in their brand, not less.

While it's not the worst name, Fit sounds more like an older person's car - a car for someone who reads Consumer Reports magazine.

I don't think ANYBODY in the market for a high quality, entry-level car is going to confuse it with a tiny scooter...

tamaraster

I HATE the name "jazz." I like the music, but I would never buy a car named Jazz. Not in a million years. Fit sounds like a fine name - kind of like Civic is a fine, plain name.

Of course, I'm a 30-year-old who (at least sometimes) reads Consumer Reports, so I guess it's a marketing issue. I like the name Scion OK, though.

raychuang00

You know Honda will be using the Fit name when the car sold in Mexico uses this name.

plekto

Honda has a car named the "Life already in Japan - they could use that I guess, or the Edix might work - they have several brands they could put on it that they already own.

bostonjazz

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2005-10-25-little-cars-usat_x.htm

raychuang00

...Watch for other automakers to seriously look at selling B-segment cars in the USA.

I can cite the following models potentially coming:

1. An all-new Ford Fiesta and its related Mazda2, based on an all-new B-segment platform that is coming likely in 2007. It would likely be assembled in one of Ford's Mexican assembly lines initially for the Fiesta, with the Mazda2 coming from Japan.

2. Chevrolet Meriva, based on the model now already being assembled in Mexico. This model could come a lot faster than people think because the Meriva only needs minor changes to meet NHTSA safety standards and could use EPA-certified Ecotec I-4 engines.

3. Mitsubishi Colt, already a hot seller in Europe. It wouldn't take much to build a US-legal version.

4. Mercedes-Benz A-series and B-series. DaimlerChrysler could easily expand their USA production capacity and we could see both models being built in the USA.

But kudos for Honda to finally bring the Fit here. Americans will discover what truly efficient packaging can do for automotive design, especially given the amazing amount of interior space for such a physically small vehicle.

wheelz4

.....we started seeing what the re-designed 2nd generation Fit/Jazz looks like? (That IS the version we are aupposed to be getting next spring or summer, isn't it?)
Surprised that Honda didn't have anything to show @ the Tokyo Motor Show, unless the W.O.W. gives us a hint at what the next Jazz/Fit will look like.

stickguy

is the fit about the size oa an Aveo? There is one of those in my parking lot, and darned if that thing ain't short!

backy

But a surprising amount of useful room in that little box (Aveo, or Fit)!

dewaltdakota

I believe the 5-door Aveo is about two inches LONGER (152.7") than the Fit (150.8").

raychuang00

By the way, if you read the print version of that article note the caption next to the picture of the Fit: it states that Honda might NOT use the current 1.3-liter L13A or 1.5-liter L15A engine variants found on the Fit/Jazz models sold around the world.

That, in my humble opinion, could mean a variant of the 1.3-liter SOHC i-VTEC engine from the 2006 Civic Hybrid could be the US-model engine.

jonniedee

http://asia.vtec.net/Reviews/05CityMMC/index.html

My dealer still insists that a version of this is going to be the U.S. fit model... :confuse:

plekto

Nasty. Looks a lot like an Echo. Give us the real Fit.

homerkc

It's funny how things, and perspectives change over time. I went back to look at specs for a 1990 Honda Civic hatchback. The length was 152 (though the height was only 52', as opposed to the 60' of the Fit, Versa, etc. which is where they manufacture seating space.) That Civic was a reasonably roomy car - a marvel that had more room inside than the outside would suggest. By this measure, the new B cars should be able to include air bags, side door beams, etc and still create a roomy space with that added height.

I always loved those old Civic hatchbacks. I hope these cars are worth the wait.

hungarian83

My dealer still insists that a version of this is going to be the U.S. fit model...

Dealers are not always the best sources of information for these kinds of things. They are more interested in seeing you drive off with a car at that moment, and not half a year later.

In July Honda said that they would be selling the Fit in Mexico in October 2005 and in the US and Canada in Spring 2006. Well, that car being sold in Mexico is the 5-door. Chances are the US will get that too.
This time Honda said, "Fit" and not "variation of the Fit" or "Fit Aria". At this point, they probably would have specified whether it is the Fit or Fit Aria, and they said Fit.
Honda specifically said the US model would be imported from Japan. While the 5-door Fit is made in Japan (among other places), the 4-door Fit Aria (City) is made in Thailand. There wasn't any mention of importing from Thailand.
Also, if you look at the current and future competition (Aveo, xA, Yaris, Verso, etc.) they are all sold as hatchbacks. The Aveo is available as a sedan as well, but the growing popularity for superminis is centered around hatchbacks and not sedans. It would be a ridiculous move on Hondas part to bring a subcompact 4-door, but not offer a 5-door.

There is a possibility that the Fit Aria (City) will eventually be offered in the US, but the model coming in Spring 2006 will most likely be the 5-door.

odman

Automotive News this week has a peice saying that last August Honda expected to sell 60,000 Fits when it goes on sale next spring or summer but if gas prices spike it could be higher. If the Fit is a hit, and "if Civic volumes are maintained" CEO Takeo Fukui says they would look at producing the Fit in North America. He ruled out building it in Mexico or China.

The article says last year 249,818 Fits were made in Japan for sale in Japan, Europe, and Asia. A plant in Guangzhou, China makes another 50,000 destined for Europe.

backy

... and "if Civic volumes are maintained" ...

That is rather ominous, isn't it? It shows where Honda is focusing their efforts--on the bigger, more expensive cars. Too bad if we in the U.S. want to buy more Fits--we won't be able to if it means fewer Civic sales. What a crock.

dewaltdakota

I had a friend with a '90 hatchback, and I loved the room it had. When I bought my own (1992), they had gone and trashed the hatch, by splitting it into a lift for the glass, and a drop tailgate, like a mini pickup truck. Aside from that, I loved the car.

I don't want a car that has become as large (or pricey) as the current Civic. I want an econo-box as my daily commuter, so I can leave my 14mpg Dodge Dakota in the driveway until the weekends. I also want it to be a hatchback, so I can make the most of the room that is available. You just don't get that with a sedan. The 5-door fit looks like it will be the perfect "fit" in my driveway.

stickguy

good point about the old Civic. I had a 1985 hatch about 15 years ago, and seem to recall it felt pretty roomy, at least up front (I nver had rear passengers usually, but I believe that I could fit).

Funny thing is, I was next to one of the generation at a light the other day, and noticed how tiny it seems today.

Times they are a changing!

jonniedee

http://automobiles.honda.com/fit/?ef_id=1097:1:e67d3e78da2d00ef80b70463c0584db1:dJbwudhWlW- gAAF9kRvAAAAAC:20051028133717#

raychuang00

That is rather ominous, isn't it? It shows where Honda is focusing their efforts--on the bigger, more expensive cars. Too bad if we in the U.S. want to buy more Fits--we won't be able to if it means fewer Civic sales. What a crock.

Actually, given the high price of gasoline nowadays I think Honda is looking building the Fit hatchback and Fit Aria sedan at one of Honda's North American assembly plants. I wouldn't be surprised that Honda expands their Marysville and East Liberty, OH assembly lines to accommodate Fit/Fit Aria production by 2007.

raychuang00

Here's a shorter version that everyone can read:

http://tinyurl.com/cnszw

backy

That's what the article said, yes. I was commenting on the statement regarding, they will build a Fit factory IF Civic sales levels are maintained.

kagedude

I can see two versions of the Honda Fit for the US market, especially if they use the new SOHC i-VTEC engine I mentioned earlier. The 1.3-liter version rated at 95 bhp will be for the economy crowd (overdrive 4th and 5th gears for manual and economy-minded CVT operation) using 175/65R14 tires and the 1.5-liter version rated at 110-115 bhp for the sporting crowd (only 5th gear overdrive for manual and more performance-oriented CVT operation) using 185/55R15 tires.

Honda Mexico's 1.5 vtec engine on the 06 Fit is rated at 109hp@5800rpm/106torque@4800rpm. The car weighs about 2300lbs. I think this is what we are getting in March. Compared their Civic/Accord engines and they are the same specs as the US models.

So with that, expect a car that goes 0-60 in around 10sec with top speed of 115mph. I can live with that.

raychuang00

Honda Mexico's 1.5 vtec engine on the 06 Fit is rated at 109hp5800rpm/106torque4800rpm. The car weighs about 2300lbs. I think this is what we are getting in March.

However, note that Honda told USA Today they might NOT use the L15A VTEC engine now found on the Mexican-market car. I can hazard a guess that Honda is developing a derivative of the 1.3-liter SOHC i-VTEC engine used on the 2006 Civic Hybrid's IMA drivetrain for the US-market car, one that could easily meet the California Air Resources Board ULEV Level-II standard.

hungarian83

http://automobiles.honda.com/fit/

It's a good sign that Honda finally has something on their website.

A few interesting things to note though:
-Although it is just a concept sketch, the drawing (when you click the "front" link) shows a three-door, and not a five-door.

-It looks like it really will be called the "Fit" and although it's artsy and futuristic the drawing more or less shows the first generation version, apart from the Civic Sedan-esque metal on the grille, and the bumpers that turn upwards towards the headlights.

-I don't know if Honda still does this, but they used to distinguish from the i-DSI and VTEC engines by putting a different colored dot on the "i" in Fit, and the "j" in Jazz. I believe the VTEC was a blue dot and the i-DSI was a red dot. On the Honda US website, the dot is white. They really are keeping this a secret!

makabe

In another teaser illustration posted in August on the The Hollywood Extra's car page, you can see the faint outline of rear doors on what at first looks like a 3 door hatchback. The illustration is pretty similar to the one on Honda's site, except the grill.

It is definitely looking like we're going to get the next generation Fit! Hooray! Hey Honda--put a little diesel in it!

hungarian83

The Hollywood Extra also said back in 2002 that the Fit would be coming as a 2003 vehicle. Some of the vehicles on that page are photochopped. In fact, before the current generation Odyssey came out, someone took the JDM Elysion, put Acura wheels on it, and called it the new Odyssey.
The Hollywood Extra is far from the highest quality source of reliable automotive news.

It is definitely looking like we're going to get the next generation Fit!
That is a definite possibility, but don't get your hopes up until Honda actually says so. After all, the picture of the Fit "concept" on Honda's website is the first generation, except for a slightly different grille, and bumper.
No one seems to have heard anything about the 2nd generation Fit which would hit Japan and Europe before the US. The JDM Fit / EU Jazz just went through an MMC not too long ago, so it might still be a little while before the 2nd generation comes out. Since North America is the next big market for the Fit, and Mexico just got the first generation, US will probably get it too.

...and getting the first generation would be a great thing since it would be more solid and reliable than a new model.

raychuang00

No one seems to have heard anything about the 2nd generation Fit which would hit Japan and Europe before the US. The JDM Fit / EU Jazz just went through an MMC not too long ago, so it might still be a little while before the 2nd generation comes out.

My guess right now is that we won't see the second-generation Honda Fit/Jazz until calendar year 2007. That way, all the Honda assembly lines around the world (Japan, China, Thailand and Brazil) that produce the Fit/Jazz models (and the related Fit Aria/City four-door sedan variants) can switch over simultaneously, along with establishing an assembly line in the USA (probably by expanding the East Liberty, OH or Marysville, OH assembly lines) at the same time.

By the way, you might want to look at the new European Honda Civic five-door hatchback for clues for what the second-generation Fit might look like.

strager

I really doubt that Honda would intro the first generation here in spring 2006 and replace it with a redesigned Fit a year later. If Honda introduces the 2nd generation Fit in Japan in January, it will be 4.5 years since the 1st generation was introduced in June 2001. That would be about right for the typical Japanese product cycle.

While I expect the 2nd generation Fit to have only evolutionary changes, I believe they will intro the 2nd generation Fit in Japan in January (coincident with the Detroit show) and the US in March/April.

hungarian83

That way, all the Honda assembly lines around the world (Japan, China, Thailand and Brazil) that produce the Fit/Jazz models (and the related Fit Aria/City four-door sedan variants) can switch over simultaneously

That makes sense...it seems like something Honda would do, to keep the Fit/Jazz and Fit Aria/City together when it came time for a full model change. What it looks like now is that they are going to introduce the 5-door throughout the entire world, and then do the full model change sometime after that. Also, if they do keep the Fit Aria on the same schedule as the Fit we will definitely be seeing the 1st generation Fit in the US, since the Fit Aria/City just went under an MMC.

Honda was bound to leave someone "short changed" on the Fit the way they finally decided to release it though. I don't know of any car that has been released so slowly throughout the world. Japan (mid 2001), Europe (early 2002), Australia (late 2002), Brazil (early 2003), Thailand (late 2003), China (mid 2004), Mexico (late 2005), US (early 2006). This way a few regions will have the Fit/Jazz for much longer than the normal model cycle, and others will have it for much less time than the normal model cycle.

Regardless, could this be the true global car?

jonniedee

Quote: By the way, you might want to look at the new European Honda Civic five-door hatchback for clues for what the second-generation Fit might look like.

I pray not - that civic 5 door concept looks so Renault or Nissan inspired it turns me off :mad: