Honda Fit

plekto

The Fit is appearing on Edmunds today!

I saw something that got me excited:
Manual transmission:
Fuel Tank Capacity: 10.8 gal.; EPA Mileage Estimates: 33 mpg / 38 mpg; Range in Miles: 356.4 mi. / 410.4 mi.
Automatic:
Fuel Tank Capacity: 10.8 gal.; EPA Mileage Estimates: 31 mpg / 38 mpg; Range in Miles: 334.8 mi. / 410.4 mi.

YAY! I can so live with 33/38. My guess is that the EPA test is the older one that we're used to, so it's a bit higher for highway - and Honda seems to have done some last-minute tweaking. What this means is that it will get ~40mpg or so with the automatic at higher speeds and with careful driving.

raychuang00

It out-accelerates a base Mini, and out-handles it, too. Get the 5-speed - you'll not be lacking for power, to be sure. Just calculate the power to weight ratio as you hit 4000rpm in 4th getting onto a freeway. It's no slouch. Honda's done everything they can to make it drive as close to a little rocket as possible, from tweaking the gearing, to the engine's output, to the suspension...

All you need is the 205/45R16 wheel/tire upgrade from Honda Factory Performance and a suspension upgrade from Mugen, Spoon or HKS and the Fit will probably runs rings around the low-end Mini models--not to mention the Fit being WAY more practical! :shades:

vchiu

I was given one key only with remote and one without remote.

I would have expected 2 with remote and probably a third without.

Got 3 with remote + one spare with my Bimmer, no comparison intended.

vchiu

My average consumption is about 8L/100, 27 mpg I think
50% city 30% crowded roads, 20% highway (heavy foot when conditions allow).

The Empty tank warning light switches in after 280 Miles, generally after using 32 liters of gas, so I assume there are still about 10 liter remaining. Because of this I have the feeling it has a small tank.

bodble2

8L/100 actually = a little over 35 mpg (imperial gallon)

nippononly

about other markets, but in the U.S. there is NO LONGER A GOLF WITH A 115 HP ENGINE!

150 hp from a 2.5L is the lowest-power engine you can get (in a couple of months), unless you find leftover stock from the old model.

And as for i-VTEC vs VTEC, guys, you can say what you want, but it is not the current engine technology at Honda, it is the previous generation. If they did it to keep the car cheap, well, it's not THAT cheap is it? A good value, yes, but compared to other cars in its class, not cheap.

When they update this model in a year or two for the home market, there is NO WAY they will not be plugging in an i-VTEC engine at that point - it is becoming a Honda standard. And I find it unthinkable that Honda would update the model throughout the world, but keep selling the Americans the old model because it has only been here two years? No, that's too hard to believe.

And as I said before people got carried away, the use of the old-style VTEC will not stop me from test driving it. They were fun in their own way. I had a mid-90s Civic EX with that type of VTEC, and if you keep the revs over 5000 rpm you can have some fun....it makes me wonder why the redline is so "low" on the Fit (low for a Honda VTEC)

vchiu

I think I got Messed-up with US Gallons

I thought 10L/100 was about 23 MPG US

My, those English measures, I will never be used to them

Strangely enough, my board computer is not very accurate, with more than 7% error. It displays 9L/100 but the reality is closer to 8.2L

jonniedee

"it makes me wonder why the redline is so "low" on the Fit (low for a Honda VTEC)"

It believe it's the longer than (Honda)standard stroke vs. bore ration - more low end torque - less high end rev potential...just like my CRV's 2.4.

dewaltdakota

For those interested, you can now get an insurance rate quote on State Farm's website for the 2007 Fit.

I plugged in the numbers, giving the same specs as the insurance I currently have on my 2005 Dodge Dakota Laramie QC 4x4, and it's about $30 cheaper per year to insure ($762)... but that quote doesn't necessarily take into account all applicable discounts - just most of them.

sd_driver

8L/100KM = 29.4 mpg US gallons

3.785 liters per US Gal

100 km = 62.137 miles

8/3.785 = 2.11

62.137 / 2.11 = 29.4488 mpg US Gal

plekto

All you need is the 205/45R16 wheel/tire upgrade from Honda Factory Performance and a suspension upgrade from Mugen, Spoon or HKS and the Fit will probably runs rings around the low-end Mini models--not to mention the Fit being WAY more practical!
***
Actually, the factory alloys are fine - what it needs is about $1000 in suspension upgrades, a lighter flywheel, a remaped computer(ie "chipped") and of course, proper three piston calipers. Oh wait - they already make things like that for it over in Japan. Lol. It's going to get turned into a little street-racer in no time flat. As for power, I'm sure...

http://paultan.org/archives/2006/03/07/mugen-fit-spec-d-prototype/

OH... MUCH DROOLAGE. 145HP-no engine swap. And no turbo-lag nonsense. Supercharged, like it should be Better body kit, too.

You could tweak the thing out heavily and still be at what a Mini costs.

bodble2

That's what got me comparing the Fit to the Golf. Base engine for the Golf in Canada is also the 150hp 2.5L. Me thinks this Golf will drive pretty well! Interior quality is good (although the Fit Sport is no slough either). It's got some features you can't get on the Fit at any price, ie. seat adjustments, full-meal-deal electronic stability, 6-sp steptonic, heated mirrors. Exterior styling is sharp and tasteful (and without the Audi-VW corporate snout). Whereas Fit styling is OK at best. I know reliability is always a question mark with VW. But given the approx $1600 price difference, it's a compelling alternative.

killerpiece

"And I find it unthinkable that Honda would update the model throughout the world, but keep selling the Americans the old model because it has only been here two years? No, that's too hard to believe."

I disagree,
Can you name any time Honda has introduced a car, and then two years later they replaced it? And why, when they already knocked the socks off of the competition (Car and Driver comparison) would they want to confuse the public with the next gen. car? IMHO I think that Honda will keep this gen. fit until 2009, when they will market the next gen. fit as a 2010. Honda will then give us the third gen. fit when the rest of the world gets it, around 2013. This formula will spread out each model year to about 3.5 years, keeping it pretty fresh.

Killerpiece :shades:

jpmccormac

> That's what got me comparing the Fit to the Golf.

I'm considering the Golf V also. I measured cargo capacity of the Fit vs my Golf III and they are exactly the same. However, the Fit has an edge w/ the Magic Seats that fold flat, unlike the Golf. I don't like the fact that the Fit driver's seat does not have height adjustment - wife is a short legged 5'2" and I'm 5'11".

I can't imagine the interior in the Fit is better than the Mark V; VW does interiors better than anyone, IMO.

Reliability is a question mark w/ the Golf, but VW's basic warranty is better than Honda's. My 96 Golf has been quite reliable.

As for overall ride quality, I suspect the Golf wins that one. The Fit is said to be harsh and buzzy on the highway, but I can't verify that yet.

For fuel economy, Fit wins.

mwqa

And why, when they already knocked the socks off of the competition (Car and Driver comparison) would they want to confuse the public with the next gen. car?

Why? For the best reason of all - looks!

No offence, but the Fit looks a bit dated - an old fashioned ugly ducking. :P

I don't see a compelling reason against getting the redesigned Fit in NA as soon as it comes out. I'm encouraged to think that we will, in that Honda has given us basically the same version as is available in other markets. Will they have to wait for the redesign? I doubt it. So why would we?

The only thing we may lose out on is the Japanese build. That doesn't bother me. Hey, it is a HONDA we're talking about, not a GM (or a Nissan)!

I just wanted to say that we Canadians - and Americans - also build damn fine cars.

hungarian83

"Can you name any time Honda has introduced a car, and then two years later they replaced it?"

The Logo.
It debuted in Japan in late 1996 and Europe got it for 2000-2001.
In the UK (Honda's biggest single-country European market) it was only there for one year. Replaced by the Jazz in 2002. In fact, the Logo was introduced so late in its life cycle, CAR magazine was mentioning the Jazz as the Logo mk2 in the same article. Also, the change from the Logo to the Jazz was significant. It was an entirely new model, not just an FMC.

I foresee a FMC for the Japanese market in late spring 2007 and Europe following in the early summer, with the US and Canada in the Fall.

Having Honda try to stagger the launch of the Fit across all regions would be a nightmare. Each region got this car at a different time. In fact, each year since 2001 the Fit/Jazz has been introduced to a new market. It would be nonsense from a strategical and financial point of view to keep two generations of a world car out at the same time.

Due to the tremendous success of the current model, the changes for the second generation will probably be just evolutionary.

nippononly

a moonroof in the Golf, I believe. But of course, the mileage rating with the 2.5L and a manual (24/32) is fairly crappy. OTOH, you get TONS of low-end torque - it has a MUCH better torque-to-weight ratio than Fit, and the torque is super-spread out in the Golf's 2.5 - a huge plateau that starts way down at 2000 rpm.

I am sure there will be no comparison between the Fit and a VW interior - the VW will win hands down. But the Golf is a heavy car, and handling will suffer a lot - the Fit will win that one easily.

More than anything, I question the price comparison - is that based on actual numbers? I suspect the new Golf will be more like $3K more expensive than the Fit Sport at base price.

For anyone who thinks that we will continue to receive the old Fit after the new model comes out for the '08 MY or CY - just imagine the immense cost to Honda of building TWO DIFFERENT Fit models worldwide. It's not like it's manufactured in that many places.

Plus, c'mon, we all know Honda here, right? Honda values its North American market immensely - it is proportionally more important to Honda than to Nissan or Toyota for instance - and there is just no way they would leave an old model on the market here when a new one was ready to go and already being sold in Japan.

bprenderson

I would like to know if the Fit, with auto trans, can be towed behind an RV? The manual trans can probably be towed, but I'm not sure about the auto. Thanks..
:shades:

bodble2

We sat in a Fit Sport and were pleasantly surprised by the quality of the interior material. The seats, especially, looked and felt pretty good. All the knobs and dial had a quality feel to them. Yes, there was a fair bit of hard plastic but at least it seemed like good quality hard plastic. Carpet, and trunk mat were pretty chintzy though.

And I know I may be in the minority on this one, but I think the base Fit without all the spoilers does not look good at all. Looks like a Chevy Aveo or Suzuki Swift, or something of that ilk.

hungarian83

"I am sure there will be no comparison between the Fit and a VW interior - the VW will win hands down."

I can't say for certain about the VW interior (quality-wise) since I haven't taken a look at it, but the Fit's interior is excellent. It surpasses anything in the class, and many more expensive cars too.

raychuang00

Carpet, and trunk mat were pretty chintzy though.

That's why I emailed MacNeil Automotive (http://www.mats.com) about when they will have their excellent Classic Premium floor mats available for the Fit. They said hopefully by early Summer 2006.

mauicedar

Yes it can. I called Remco and they have a recorded message that answers this question. (800-228-24810) The Fit was not mentioned but the recording stated that any gas powered Civic with automatic could be towed four wheels down. A couple of exceptions were noted. They even offer a warranty on the transmission if you want one. I called the General Sales manager of Ron Tonkin Honda in Portland and he told me the automatic transmission on the fir was from the Civic. I changed to the Automatic Sport when I learned this information.
Blue Ox is considering building the connector plates now. They need a donor and will attach the plates for free. You pay for the parts.
Hey can anyone give a link to the Car and Driver comparsion? Maybe post it online? :confuse:

mauicedar

Yes it can. I called Remco and they have a recorded message that answers this question. (800-228-2481) The Fit was not mentioned but the recording stated that any gas powered Civic with automatic could be towed four wheels down. A couple of exceptions were noted. They even offer a warranty on the transmission if you want one. I called the General Sales manager of Ron Tonkin Honda in Portland and he told me the automatic transmission on the fir was from the Civic. I changed to the Automatic Sport when I learned this information.
Blue Ox is considering building the connector plates now. They need a donor and will attach the plates for free. You pay for the parts.
Hey can anyone give a link to the Car and Driver comparsion? Maybe post it online? :confuse:

backy

I have seen the Golf's interior close up and it is far superior to that of the Fit--albeit pricier.

In this class, IMO the Versa's interior does not take a second seat to the Fit and in many ways is superior. For example:

* Nicely-styled dash - looks more like a high-end large-car dash to me than the Fit's dash
* Quality seat fabric
* Cushy armrests on doors
* Center armrest
* Dead pedal
* Fold-down center arm rest in back
* Thicker carpeting

haulsmall

I took a look at the Hondanews website and they list the 2007 Fit (VTEC) and the 2006 Civic (i-VTEC) as both having LEV-2 emissions. I wonder if the use of the drive-by-wire throttle on the Fit lets Honda take better advantage of the older-style VTEC because of it's ability to adjust throttle settings to match valve configurations. Do many of the VTEC Hondas employ the drive-by-wire throttle?

micweb

I don't think Honda will replace the Fit here even if they refresh it in Asia and Europe in the next year or two. It's not that unusual for manufacturers to keep their small car updates fresher in Europe and Asia than here, although admittedly in the past Honda has kept the Civic and Accord model updates in synch (although the actual European Civics and Accords are sometimes quite different from what we get here, witness the "compact" European Accord being sold here as a baby Acura!).

Also, while the styling of the Fit won't be refreshed in the USA as soon as in Asia and Europe, it is still brand new to us, and in addition there have been a lot of updates to bring it to North America so in that the larger scheme of things, I think the North American Fit is "new" enough to last up to 4 years here without major changes.(For example, apparently there was a lot of work on the front end so it would do well in USA crash tests, both NHTSA and IIHS, even after addition of the 1.5 engine. Plus we get the Civics 5 speed automatic, which is brand new even to the Civic.) I do predict that within a year they will discontinue 14" wheels on the Base model, since even the Scion's start with 15" (the Yaris starts with 14", but isn't the Fit more comparable the Scion xA?).

With respect to complaints that the Fit is getting an "old generation" VTEC system, I think the most important think is not the technology that gets advertised, but how well it is executed and performs in actual tests. For example, I had a Scion xA which has a much more advanced variable valve system (valve timing can be changed independent of RPM, and seamlessly) plus a muffler that had a valve in it to open up when back pressure built up (essentially quiet at normal speeds, but more "open" and throaty under full or closer to full throttle). Guess what - the Scion xA was a slug, testing at over 10 seconds 0-60, vs. the 8.6 or so recently tested for the Fit. In addition, the comments on the Fit's torque curve and mid-range power were positive - no comments that it was on/off, which was a problem with early VTEC designs.

I decided not to get a Fit this time around - not entirely fair to the Fit given the OUTSTANDING professional reviews - but simply because, having owned a "B" size class car recently (the Scion xA), I find the "B" class just a little too small for me for long highway trips. I just need a little more room to spread out on long trips, as the rest of me starts to spread out....

micweb

I share your suspicion that electronic throttle is becoming part of engine operations for more reasons than eliminating a cable; I think it communicates with the ECM (engine control module) and modulates the actual throttle opening so the ECM can do its job better. Maybe you are right and the electronic throttle compensates for the VTEC cam change-over point to keep things smooth....

ross14

Versa has impressive interior, but so do most French cars. Renault, Nissans master, has suceeded in giving style back to that Japanese firm, but has it enhanced Nissans durability? The Quest was so poorly made in its American factory, that Nissan had to import tons of their engineers to rectify assembly issues. French costcutting, & out of Japan construction may be questions the Versa can't answer. Give it a Hyundai warranty, & it would be a dream.

jpmccormac

re: ... I question the price comparison - is that based on actual numbers? I suspect the new Golf will be more like $3K more expensive than the Fit Sport at base price.

Perhaps, though VW claims the Mark V Golf base price will be less than US $16,000. Probably for a stripped 5 speed. Anyway, I stopped in at a Honda dealer today to look at the Civic 4 door and was told they were only taking pre-orders and had none in the showroom or on the lot - and no FITs yet. Demand is high for the Civic as are the prices. No dealing here.
Then I stopped at the VW lot, which was full of Mark V Jettas and GTIs. So, which dealer will be more likely to negotiate on price?

bamacar

CarsDirect in my area is selling Jetta base models for more than MSRP so Hondas would be cheaper compared to sticker. Civics are about $500 over invoice here. Who cares about the Golf or Jetta. Compare those to the Civic or Accord. The Golf weighs about 800 lbs more than the Fit. It is much larger outside. It gets much worse fuel economy in non-diesel form. To get all of the equipment on the Fit Sport, a Jetta or Golf will run about 18-20k+. You can get an Accord with much better space, power, and fuel economy for that price. Volkswagens have nice interiors, good handling, but no Fit competitors are imported to the US. If they bring over the Polo or Fox, a comparison may be in order.

raychuang00

don't think Honda will replace the Fit here even if they refresh it in Asia and Europe in the next year or two. It's not that unusual for manufacturers to keep their small car updates fresher in Europe and Asia than here, although admittedly in the past Honda has kept the Civic and Accord model updates in synch (although the actual European Civics and Accords are sometimes quite different from what we get here, witness the "compact" European Accord being sold here as a baby Acura!).

I have to disagree on that! And with good reason: Honda's first year of production of the Fit for the USA and Canada is coming directly from Japan, which means the Suzuka, Japan factory that builds the Fit currently for Japan, Southeast Asia, Australia/New Zealand, and some to Europe. When Honda does its full-model change (FMC) for the Fit, it's likely North American sales of the new model come from one of Honda's facilities already here in North America.

vchiu

> I don't like the fact that the Fit driver's seat does not have height adjustment - wife is a short legged 5'2" and I'm 5'11".

My wife is a petite short-legged chinese at 5'1 and has no problem with driving the FIT. myself, although being only 5'9, i extend the seat to the max rear position otherwise I feel my legs are too bent. I guess the N/A version will have more adjustment range.

I am used to the fit suspension and find the harder set-up to be the most suitable compromise. I don't feel the car will tip over when taking a curve. the harder suspension allow to keep good road handling for taller cars, so I guess the Golf will have a more supple ride.

The Golf only comes with a 115HP powertrain in China and costs nearly 26K USD so I did not even consider it. It is clear that a 150HP version for 10K less or so would have let me think twice.

hungarian83

The new Fit/Jazz will also incorporate Honda's ACE body structure and a cleaner, more efficient, if not also more powerful engine. Honda will want to keep the Fit at the top of its game in a segment it believes will grow 58% by 2010. Basically, while the 1st generation Fit allowed Honda a running start in the resurgent NA-market B-segment, the new model will be like icing on the cake.

Honda will not lose out on anything by keeping the current model in the United States and Canada for only a short time.

Hypothetically, if Honda did keep the US/Canadian-market Fits as the 1st generation, where would they build it? Surely not in Japan, which could very easily see a repeat of the sales phenomenon and will be pressed to the limit in supplying both the JDM and other markets. All the other factories will be focused on their regions. The logical step would be to produce at a NA plant. CY2007 would be a perfect starting point during which they could do a global launch of their truly global car spanning just a few months.

plekto

Honda won't possibly tool up an entire new assembly line for an older model when the new ones are out. New plant = new model.

So what if we get it for one year? No biggie. The replacement will be biger, more powerful, and yeah - probably sell better, but I won't like it.

verbalcontract

I go to school at NYU, and for one of my classes we had to do an ad campaign for the Fit. Today we threw an event with the car, and we were all pretty impressed by it, especially how much room it actually has in the back (considering we had never seen it in person until this morning, and we had heard so many descriptions of it through the marketing materials Honda provided!)

Our site is up here - http://www.makeroomforfit.com - we got about US$2500 to promote the car on-campus, so we filmed a video and put it online and did a bunch of other promotional stuff around the car. But like I said, this was for an advertising class... but we tried to keep it honest. Enjoy!

hungarian83

"The replacement will be biger, more powerful, and yeah - probably sell better, but I won't like it."
Agree! That's why I was hoping so much that Honda would bring the first generation. Despite some changes here and there, it's pretty much the same car designed originally for Japan and European markets, which means space-efficient and fun to drive!
...and built in Japan too!

bodble2

I think the Golf is really intended to compete against the Civic and lower-line Accord. But a near-base Golf is close enough in price to be enticing to those potential buyers looking for a small, practical hatchback, but find the Fit just a teensy bit too basic, too decontented, too....well, econo-class. Of course, buyers who want only a no-frill, high-mpg, reliable, minimum-cost people and cargo mover will find the Fit perfectly adequate, and will not take even a sideway glance at the Golf. For this group, if they feel the urge to splurge, the Fit Sport is all they need. :P

cdoc

If Volkswagen wanted to compete in the Fit-Yaris-Versa class, they would import the smaller Polo, which has been available in other parts of the world for many years.

shneor

The Golf has much less cargo capacity (with the rear seats down) than the Fit.

bodble2

The magic seat in the Fit is no doubt a plus, but if you plan to transporting that big-screen TV from Costco, you may still be limited by the size of the hatch opening.

tomsr1

I did an auto trader search and the Fit is already on the East coast. Why doesn't the west coast get them first since it is closer to Japan? I drive an SUV because I am a
senior citizen and it is easier to get in and out but I don't like the poor MPG.Does the fit sit low like a sports
car or is it like the pt cruiser? I found the Scion xb very easy to enter and exit but it is ugly.

jpmccormac

RE: The Golf has much less cargo capacity (with the rear seats down) than the Fit.

Not correct. I measured my Golf III against the published specs for the cargo capacity of the Fit and they are almost exactly the same. It is true that the versatility of the Magic Seats allows for more combinations of storage.

coldstorage5

I spoke to a dealer in Nanuet NY. he said his fits are being buit on the April 11, and will be avaible May 5th.

Where were your Fits availble now?????

hungarian83

"Of course, buyers who want only a no-frill, high-mpg, reliable, minimum-cost people and cargo mover will find the Fit perfectly adequate"

I disagree. Those people would look for a car like the Suzuki Reno, or Hyundai Accent. The Fit is no Acura, but it does have a high-quality interior, and an excellent list of standard features, both safety and otherwise. I would hardly call it no-frills (Toyota Yaris 3dr with no packages? Yes). It's also not minimum cost, since it's on the higher end of pricing in the segment.
I wouldn't look at the Golf, but I might consider cars like the Polo and Fox if they were higher reliability.

hungarian83

Brochures for the car and accessories are available at dealerships...at least mine, that is.

The brochure has the pictures from the website. Thankfully, the long-legged, pizza-eating blue aliens and ATARI characters have been left out.

My dealership said the first cars should be arriving in about 10 days (mine included! )...a little earlier than the release date.

By the way, the HondaNews.com press release was wrong. It is in fact Lunar Mist, and not Sirius Blue.

dewaltdakota

The Auto Trader ads are listing cars they have on order, but not in hand... so "no", they are not on the East coast, yet. The West coast will have them before the East coast, due to the fact they are closer to the country's point of entry.

dewaltdakota

Could you please take a look at your brochure, and clarify the interior color options available on the (now confirmed) Lunar Mist? Everything I've seen says "beige only", but others are reporting that the black interior is available.

anotherscott

Can anyone point me to a picture of the Fit in black? Also, a picture of the beige interior? (I know, you can't get the beige interior in the black car!)

And Lunar Mist is the light silvery blue, right?

Thanks...

dewaltdakota

The beige interior is pretty light in color:


Lunar Mist is a light bluish silver color.

dewaltdakota

I've been trying to find a picture of a NA Fit in black, and can't seem to locate one. However, Honda appears to have updated the main Fit webpage again, and this time, has a REALLY close up view of a black sport.