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Would Ford Ever sell Lincoln?

bigo08bigo08 Posts: 102
BMW could do so much with the Lincoln brand.. it could bring this ones prestige brand back to the top. wat do u guys could happen??
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Comments

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Why would BMW waste money on a luxury brand like Licoln, when themselves already got it right. :confuse:

    Rocky
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,576
    I also don't see any logic to such a buy. I think BMW got themselves burned enough with Rover to stay away from dead brands. Lincoln has been so "not hot" since the 1930s that I personally am amazed it's still around.

    Revitalizing Lincoln is Ford's job alone I think.

    MODERATOR

  • socala4socala4 Posts: 2,427
    I also don't see any logic to such a buy. I think BMW got themselves burned enough with Rover to stay away from dead brands. Lincoln has been so "not hot" since the 1930s that I personally am amazed it's still around.

    Revitalizing Lincoln is Ford's job alone I think.


    I agree with that. Lincoln has no brand value, plant and equipment, R&D, distribution channel or locked-in market share that others either need or can't build on their own.

    The overall Ford business or an entire region's operations might be a worth acquisition target at some point, but a single nameplate doesn't offer anything of value to anyone. BMW can simply outcompete Lincoln, and wait for Lincoln's demographic to die off. Lincoln will need an image change with vehicles to match if it is to gain back its position as a status nameplate.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    I agree. Why on earth would BMW consider such an idea? What would they gain? Another competitor for BMW? It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever.

    Bob
  • Maybe Chery will buy it. :lemon:
  • au1994au1994 Posts: 771
    I think Ford would just put the brand out to pasture with Olds and Plymouth rather than sell it.

    What would be attractive to a potential buyer? R&D...uh no, market share...try again, dealer network...not so much.

    2013 335i Sport Line Alpine White over Coral Red w/Black Trim

    2005 330cic ZHP Monaco Blue over Natural Brown w/Black Trim

  • Ford is wasting Lincoln, but nobody would buy it. All Lincoln has to offer is the name. Lincoln has no factory, no dedicated engine, no dedicated platform....there's nothing in Lincoln if Ford were to spin it off.

    And why would anyone want it if Ford made it something (gave them a factory, etc)? The factory would come with the UAW (no foreign company is going to want that). Any platform they'd get would be dated. And Ford's not going to give them a NEW engine.

    Ford needs to revitalize this brand. RWD platforms with a minimum of 250hp. None of this FWD stuff...that's not where Lincoln should be. And not sharing bodies with Mercury and FORD products.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,576
    Cadillac was wallowing in mediocrity for maybe the last 25 years before it was brought back to life. Lincoln has been totally comatose for 50 years...I don't think it's going to be resurrect-able.

    MODERATOR

  • I don't agree that "Lincoln has been totally comatose for 50 years" or that it's not "resurrect-able." I think Ford's doing it all wrong now, but it's not too late.

    And for the past 50 years, Lincoln has had some spectacular products including the Mark II, Continental (1961-1969), Mark III, Mark VII, Mark VIII, LS, and even the 1995-2002 Continental. While I don't personally like it, the Navigator has done wonders for the brand. I can't see how this leaves the brand comatose for the last half century.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,576
    Well "spectacular" is not what the majority of buyers would have called them. I think maybe you might be in the vast minority on that one. Aside from modest interest in the suicide door 60s cars (which are respected for design but not mechanics), most of the other cars you noted have been subjected to as much ridicule as praise....so the brand hasn't really excelled in any area was my point.

    Just about anything Lincoln produces falls off the radar screen pretty quick.

    Perhaps "comatose" is too severe a term but really, Lincoln hasn't hit a home run since the 1940s with the Zephyr and the 50s with the Mark I....the rest of the cars are mostly in the dustbin of history, or will be. Few people get excited about them.

    Given the enormous, staggering, mind boggling sums GM has thrown at Cadillac, I personally don't think Ford will make that committment to Lincoln.

    MODERATOR

  • I don't believe I'm in the minority, from my experiences. The Lincoln-Zephyr and original Continental ("Mark I") were definitely noteworthy and "home runs." The Mark II (in the 1950s) was not a huge success at the time, but today is still looked upon as a spectacular car...as is the Continental of the 1960s. The Mark III is one of those personal things with me, but the Mark VII and Mark VIII have large followings of admirers.

    I agree that Ford is not making the proper committment to Lincoln, and they should be shot for it!
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,149
    1930s Lincoln Zephyr
    1940-48 Lincoln Continental
    1956-57 Continental Mark II
    1961-69 Lincoln Continental
    1968-71 Mark III

    OK, it hasn't been 50 years, but only 35.

    Though many wouldn't consider them classics, I love those humongous 1977-79 Lincoln Town Cars with the classic stand-up grilles. Heck, I almost bought a mint 1977 model instead of my 1979 Buick Park Ave. but was afraid that huge 460 V-8 would eat me out of house and home. I also like the 1986-89 Town Car and the 1995-97 Town Car.
  • ubbermotorubbermotor Posts: 307
    Lincoln saw 1936 sales increase more 10 times over 1935 sales due to the introduction of the Zypher. They sold 16,000 cars instread of 1,500. Of course the fact that a Zypher cost $1,300 and a Model K cost $4,200 would have had nothing to do with that. (A '36 Ford started around $500.)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,576
    I think that most Lincolns from the 70s on up are now dime a dozen cars, and this in itself hurts the brand's chances for a comeback. It's hard to "recapture a legend" if there isn't one, in other words. Most people who remember Lincoln as a really grand, prestigious car are now dead. Sure--- every car has its admirers, but that's not the same as a cultural "icon" like Harley or Corvette might be.

    Even with gazillions invested, the world is still not so sure Cadillac is a car worthy of global respect, as it once was 50 years ago. And Lincoln is so far behind Cadillac, one wonders how this would ever be accomplished for Lincoln.

    If anything, Lincoln has to run as fast as possible from its 70s and 80s image, (like Cadillac did--it's no more the "old man's car") which doesn't leave it much to hang its hat on. At least Cadillac had the glorious 50s.

    As you can tell, my personal view of Lincoln's future is very pessimistic. :cry:

    MODERATOR

  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,587
    A better question might be "Would Anyone Buy Lincoln?"
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,149
    ...two reasons:

    If Cadillac and Lexus didn't exist.
    If Cadillac and Lexus became too expensive.

    Under these conditions I might consider a Town Car. The rest of Lincoln's lineup leaves me cold. A gussied-up F-150? Blecchh!!!
  • au1994au1994 Posts: 771
    If we were in the market for a luxury or near luxury sedan, I would look at the Zephyr. Just based on the pics, its not bad looking outside or inside and performance would not be much of a consideration as my wife would be the primary driver. That's not a big deal to her, although she really likes the power in her Volvo S40 T5. It's not a deal breaker for her though. Plus with the inevitable incentives that would be available, we'd probably give it a look.

    The MKX looks promising, but everything else does not appeal to me.

    2013 335i Sport Line Alpine White over Coral Red w/Black Trim

    2005 330cic ZHP Monaco Blue over Natural Brown w/Black Trim

  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,906
    for the most part. I don't care for the rear-end, because the taillights just look like they belong on a much bigger car. I really like the front though, with its wide grille flanked by a nicely proportioned headlight cluster that recalls the old quad-lamp setups of days gone by. And the interior is nice.

    But I don't know if it's nice enough for me to consider a Zephyr over a Mercury Milan or a Ford Fusion.

    The Town Car is one of those vehicles that in theory I should like, but I just don't. It's big, RWD, V-8, and easy on the eye, but I just don't care for it. For one thing, as big as they are I don't think they're that roomy inside. I swear those older, boxier 1980's styles were roomier. I've noticed that with the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis too...the older, boxy style just seemed roomier, more plush, and more comfy.

    Also, they just seem cheap inside. It's like all the cost-cutting and hard plastics from the lesser Fords is finding its way into the Lincolns. I think Lincoln has always had that problem though, moreso than Cadillac.

    You can put leather seats and power everything in a cheap car, but it still just comes off as a cheap car. They need to pay attention to other things, such as plastics, the grade of the carpet, switchgear, etc.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    IMO, Lincoln, once my favorite brand, has nothing to sell anymore. Ford has cheapened this brand to a Buick level, and there is nothing to offer anybody as a brand anymore.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,324
    A luxury Lincoln is a self contradiction. There's not the value difference between the Crown Vic and the Town Car.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Ford will keep Lincoln, but they'll need to revitalize the brand and put some serious time and money. The MKS should really have been a RWD sport sedan, but instead its a Taurus based FWD car with optional AWD...

    Also, this may be controversial, but I think the future success of the Lincoln brand rests on Mercury closing. Who wants to visit a Lincoln dealership and see Milans and Mountaineers all over the place advertised at bargain basement prices? But then again, Mercury's death is just a matter of time. All Lincoln dealers should be Lincoln only.

    I think the Mark LT has no replacement in the works.. Navigator could probably continue unchanged for a few years; MKX and MKZ should be ok stop gap replacements, but I don't know what Ford has that they could use off the shelf to deliver results without spending too much. Lincoln is going to require some serious attention, and I don't know if Ford can afford to dump that much money into its luxury brand.

    They may have been better off closing Lincoln and trying to pump more cash into Jaguar/Land Rover...
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,328
    It's been quite a while since Lincoln has really been Lincoln. I remember driving a Town Car as a loaner a good dozen years ago and it was just a gussied up Crown Vic.

    I don't know that Ford could sell it off. Kill it off, maybe, but I don't see a big dollar value in the Lincoln name which is a shame.

    Saw a 56 Lincoln convertible on a TV car auction. Now you KNEW that was a step up from its mates at Ford. Like the Imperials of the same vintage.
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    I agree. I think Ford will keep Lincoln in that they "have" to; they have no luxury player except Lincoln right now. But as you and others have stated, they need to pump funding it the marque, which they really can't do. Passing off guissed-up Fords, making the taillamps as big as ba-donk-a-donk-donk butt-cheeks, and renaming them MK-whatever (which I still think is stupid and won't go into the idiotic reasoning behind it) is not going to do.

    I myself haven't looked at Lincolns since the first couple years of LS production, which I thought was a good started on a type of rebirth for them. This vehicle allowed them to be notice, if not taken seriously about being an entry-level player in the luxury market. It gave them a real foot in the door to that playing field and could have been a springboard to mid- and eventually upper-level product. Instead we got a re-grilled Expedition, Blackwooded F-150 (WTH was with those chrome strips along the bed), re-grilled Explorer with the Navigator taillamps - though I did think the Aviator was a nice upgrade until I saw the taillamps. And that sticker price :confuse:

    If I was in the market for a Lincoln it would be an older one, like the Mark I & II, early-mid 60s Continental, Mark VII LSC and lastly LS V8. If I was in the market for a luxury-type car, Lincoln would not be on my radar; hell in the market for ANY car Lincoln would not be on my radar. :sick:
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Ford will keep Lincoln in that they "have" to; they have no luxury player except Lincoln right now.

    If the company wasn't in such dire straits, keeping Jag & Land Rover and finishing the great job they started with those two brands would probably have been the best luxury strategy for Ford, inasmuch as Lincoln had been neglected to near death by now. However, though the turnaround may have been close - there was no money left to pump into Jag or L/R and they had to be cut off from the parent to stop the bleeding.

    Mercury would not be missed if it went away by many, and Lincoln Dealers need much better and more product to sell than they have. However, Volvo isn't a bad fit with Lincoln, IF Volvo isn't sold off for that last bit of cash so desperately needed to stave off the wolves of bankruptcy. Volvo Dealers and Lincoln Dealers could be combined to give the customer some fairly upscale product to cross shop. This never seems to be given any real consideration, but I would think the dealers would be open to it. Couldn't hurt, could it? Are Volvo owners that smug that they would be insulted if Lincolns shared their waiting room in the service department?

    Anyway, as I said before, Lincoln has nothing to sell. The brand equity has been depleted already and it will be a long time before it's restored in any measurable degree.

    If Ford is to have a true luxury brand, Lincoln is all they have left, and need to invest the dollars for a Cadillac like comeback. Although, Cadillac is starving now for product and resting on their laurels pretty much too these days......
  • ehaaseehaase Posts: 328
    If Ford is to have a true luxury brand, Lincoln is all they have left, and need to invest the dollars for a Cadillac like comeback.

    Ford's top priority is not building up Lincoln; it's bringing the European Focus and other models to the U.S. over the next few years. Of course, all Cadillac has to show for its comeback is the CTS and maybe the Alpha platform small car by 2012 or 2013.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I agree with you on the CTS being all CAdillac really has. And I see Cadillac a little bit adrift right now. Direct injection is all they have new coming up, and that being a great development, will not be unique to Cadillac. With
    GM's most recent woes - expect CAdillac to sit on their CTS laurels for a while again....
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    was basically just the CTS and Escalade, and is.. However, the coming wave of CTS derivatives (wagon and possibly coupe?) look pretty good.

    Lincoln, however, has nothing beyond the MKS. That's not a good thing, as I highly doubt the MKS will be bringing in a stampede of buyers.

    Combining Volvo-Lincoln; interesting idea... Only problem is the two dealership networks are in completely different areas of cities for a reason- Volvo buyers are not likely to cross-shop Lincoln, and your typical Lincoln buyer probably won't look at a Volvo either. I think combining the two might actually dilute Volvo's European feel.

    The two brands are currently going in opposite directions- one's trying to create All-American Luxury, and the other is going for an understated Scandinavian approach. It's not all that compatible, really.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    What you say is true - but that's what I thought would help the brands and certainly the dealers. Lincoln-Volvo dealers would have a shot at two completely different demographics to do business with, and not be limited to either geysers who want a car big enough for a wheelchair lift on the back and oxygen tanks in the back seat or wine-sipping, NPR listening, limosine liberals - they would have a shot at both! I don't think Lincoln shoppers would be put off with having Volvos in the showroom, though Volvo shoppers may be turned off by Lincolns, I don't know. Volvo shoppers are clearly less tolerant types....a bit elitist it seems. I don't know. YMMV.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Hmm.. that's an interesting perspective. Doing either could widen the market for both Lincoln and Volvo.. i.e., someone coming in to look at an XC90 could drive off with an MKX, and vice versa.

    The downside is, which Lincoln or Volvo dealers would you choose to add the other brand? Surely you can't give EVERY Lincoln dealer a Volvo franchise... Volvo just doesn't have the volume to sustain that many dealers.

    Aren't a lot of Lincoln dealers now Ford-Lincoln-Mercury instead of just the last 2?

    I'm starting to think a combined Jag-Land Rover-Volvo dealer is a better idea.. Pity that Ford had to dump the Jag-Land Rover pair for cash...
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Indeed it IS a shame that L/R-Jaguar had to be sold after years of developing the finest products those companies had ever put out. The new Jag XF is receiving world acclaim, and although Rover has its quality problems, the truck itself is spectacular. I feel that Ford sold them just as they were turning the corner to profitability, quality and world regard. But alas, there may be no Ford without the proceeds from those sales.

    As to Volvo - There aren't that many Lincoln stores, I think Volvo could go into them all. Or, maybe it should be Mazda? Or maybe Mazda, Lincoln, Volvo stores?
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