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BMW 335i 2007+

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  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,515
    One reason that I have even noticed this sort of ‘acceleration 335xi vs 335i’ information ( and speculation ) is that according to the best information I can find, the 2008 335(s) are still not going to be available, even optionally, with a Limited Slip Differential.

    As I stated elsewhere, that is one ( primary ) reason that I did not choose a 335 when last I purchased a new car.

    My sense is that AWD will address this concern – at least to some degree.

    There is at least a possibility ( OK, a probability – approaching certainty ) that if I bought a 335, the TT motor would have something like a Vishnu ‘tune’. And at least having 4 tires with traction would seem to make transmitting over 300 TQ to the pavement more viable – particularly when turning corners & accelerating at the same time.

    My ** GUESS ** is that the better times come largely ( completely ) from being able to apply more throttle, more quickly with AWD. So that the launch ( and 60’ times ) will be better in the AWD \ xi.

    I expect that someone will publish independent acceleration numbers for a 335xi, some time this Fall.

    We shall see . . .
    - Ray
    Renewing interest in the 335 . . .
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I find myself thinking that if I was going to opt for a 335i that instead of the "xi" option, I'd go visit the kind folks over at Dinan and put one of their LSD rear ends in the car (I assume that they either have a 3-Series LSD already available or will in the not too distant future).

    Best Regards,
    Shipo

    Edit: I just checked and Dinan does not (yet) have any upgrade differentials for the E90, however, Hartge has what they call a "HARTGE variable differential lock, 0 - 100% for 335i with manual gear box". Hmmm, what the heck is a variable differential lock?
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,515
    “Edit: I just checked and Dinan does not (yet) have any upgrade differentials for the E90, however, Hartge has what they call a "HARTGE variable differential lock, 0 - 100% for 335i with manual gear box". Hmmm, what the heck is a variable differential lock?”

    While I also expected Dinan to be developing an LSD for the 335s, I do not even see any indication that they are working on such an item . .

    - Ray
    Finding this rather odd . . .
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    So, if a sumo wrestler was driving the 2WD and you were driving the AWD, guess who would win in the 1/4?!

    You're assuming I weigh less than a Sumo wrestler? :blush:

    Fortunately I do. But I think your point about extra grip and weight being equal is also offset by drivetrain loss. According to my dealer (former factory engineer), in the 911, there is an additional 4-5% drivetrain loss with the AWD system. Equating to about 15 horsepower in the "S" model. Plus, in the case of the 911, you are already starting with a static 62% of the weight over the rear wheels. Upon acceleration, the dynamic weight shift probably takes that up to 75%. And with those massive 295/30 19" tires on the rear wheels, wheelspin is not that easy to induce.

    I think the 50/50 weight balance and dynamics of the 3 series make better use of AWD than in the 911, at least as far as straight line acceleration goes. But in the 911, "losing" 15 horspower at the wheels and gaining 80-100 lbs to be able to give extra grip to the tires that only carry 25% of the weight doesn't appear to be a profitable trade-off. Again, in terms of straight line acceleration on dry pavement. I'd take a "4" over a "2" in snow in a heartbeat.
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    Right. And again, AWD only helps acceleration when RWD would have resulted in wheelspin. So, clutch-dumping burnouts, yes. Passing in traffic or on the highway? Nope. Just extra friction and weight in that circumstance.
  • dan12dan12 Posts: 114
    I know that the topic here is acceleration, but how does handling differ between the 335i and the 335xi? Given that the xi doesn't get the sport suspension, is there a real difference between the two? I certainly felt the difference between the regular 335i and the 335i with the sports package.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    It is a matter of control to me in hard cornering. If you are a high-level driver (not a regular commuter) and you know advanced handling control (and are proficient at driving on a road course at 9/10's of any cars capability), RWD will no doubt have an edge given the exact set-up on an AWD twin. In other words, if 2 high-level drivers raced the Twins, AWD comes in 2nd ( unless the Sumo test intervenes, then all bets are off!).

    Also, I had 2 opportunities to compare the'06 330i non-SP vs. my car ('06 330xi) and I KNOW the handling in my car prevailed.

    Recently I had a 335i loaner, again non-SP, and the perception was the same to me although the front end weight was much more apparent in my car than the 335 in the turns.

    The power in the 335 had the traction control engage on my turns since it was wet. The car is fast but as always, the added power needs to be handled with care in the 2WD version!

    As habitat says, in the snow, AWD is AWESOME. With these Conti All-Weather's last winter, it stuck like glue with the 4 paws! ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,631
    One of the car mag's did a test of 10 or 12 cars at Laguna Seca with a F1 driver, he drove cars from the Mazadaspeed3 to the Porsche GT3 there was a 335i coupe in there also. The 335i didnt fair very well as the driver said the weight was felt around the race track. But he did like the Mitsh Evo alot as you can SLIDE it around the corners, in fact he stated that the EVO was the fastest out of the last corner and that car is AWD...
  • dan12dan12 Posts: 114
    I wonder what you would think of the 335i with the SP. I am definitely nowhere near a high level driver, but even I could tell the difference between a car with the SP and one without. But it could be the difference in tires and sport seats rather than the sport suspension. In that case, I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the RWD and the AWD.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    My guess is the whole entry level lux sports sedan segment has the same issue: weight. G35/G37, 350 335i, A4,... none of them make serious track cars. The EVO is not really a serious street car, some models totally devoid of creature comforts including ABS. I saw a segment on the car beating a Ferrari, it was mentioned the EVO managed a meager 4mpg.
  • nkeennkeen Posts: 316
    re: I'll bet in 3 years we see a hybrid 3'er. That should be good for 35 -40 mpg and 0-60 in 5 seconds.

    I doubt it. Did you see the review of the LS600 Hybrid in the NY Times last weekend? A 5,000 + lb pig that costs $30K more, gets worse highway mileage, is slower and handles less well than the LS460. I'd like to see the 320D, 330D and 335D over here (with manual trannies).
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    You forgot the loss of trunk space for the batteries. A friend looked into the GS hybrid and commented that it had about the same trunk space as my car - not my TL, rather my 911.

    I'll second your vote for the diesels. 335d with 6-speed would get my attention.
  • nkeennkeen Posts: 316
    So, while I still think it's somewhere between stupid and idiotic on the intelligence scale to drive a car 150 mph on public highways, at least you picked a pretty good one to do it in.

    A BMW is a BMW because it was born to to meet the demands of drivers in country that doesn't think it's idiotic to allow 150 mph on its public roads, and who take driving seriously. High speed increases risk, but so do cell phone use (similar to driving under the influence), eating and drinking beverages behind the wheel, aggressive driving, reading a newspaper or book while driving (yes, seen that more than once on I-495), failing to understand basic lane discipline, etc., along with highway authorities that fail to repair unsafe road surfaces or remove debris, etc.
  • nkeennkeen Posts: 316
    How do you like the 911? Coming downmarket a bit, I like the look of the base Cayman -- I read a review saying that the newer base car had a sweeter engine than the S and did not lack for power. Forgive me for meandering off-topic again.
  • jb_shinjb_shin Posts: 357
    It is a matter of control to me in hard cornering. If you are a high-level driver (not a regular commuter) and you know advanced handling control (and are proficient at driving on a road course at 9/10's of any cars capability), RWD will no doubt have an edge given the exact set-up on an AWD twin. In other words, if 2 high-level drivers raced the Twins, AWD comes in 2nd ( unless the Sumo test intervenes, then all bets are off!).

    I seem to remember Audi Quattros getting outlawed after a season or so of dominating whatever series they entered, in dry and wet. Recent comparos including 997TT and R8 also shows R8 coming out ahead in spite of underpowered in comparison to 997TT.

    Topgear also has shown their professional driver achieving better laptime than E46 M4 in S4, NOT RS4.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Love the 911S. Not sure what you meant by "newer base car", as far as I know, the base Cayman still has the same 245 hp engine that is in the base Boxster. The "S" models of each get a 295hp 3.4 liter engine. I think they are all "sweet" - cars and engines. If you have any other questions, post them in the Porsche forums - I'll check over there.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    The 997TT is AWD. I've not driven either, but I'd likely take the RWD 997 GT3 over the AWD R8 in a heartbeat, if I was looking for cutting edge performance and great handling "feel". That's based upon the feedback from a friend who has driven both in Germany.

    AWD vs. RWD is mostly a matter of preference. When I was thinking of swapping my 2005 C2S for a 2006 to get a different color, I tried out the C4S. Heavier, slower off the line, but better handling/traction when the road surface gets dicey. Ask 10 and you'll get a 5 and 5 split relative to which is better for smooth dry road handling. I kept my 2005, but I would have stuck with the C2S over the C4S.
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    " Recent comparos including 997TT and R8 also shows R8 coming out ahead in spite of underpowered in comparison to 997TT. "

    First of all, the 997TT IS awd. The only recent test (that i know of) like this was the C&D lightning lap.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/download/lightninglap_results.pdf

    In this test, the 335i came in ahead of the more powerful and RWD rs4, the gt3 came in ahead of the more powerful r8 and 997TT, etc, and the corvettes basically dominated.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    I experienced the "dicey" feeling in the 335i loaner a couple of weeks back in light rain. The more power, the less control as road conditions deteriorate.

    IMO, the perfect combination is an AWD daily driver for the bad climate days and a nice C2S/M3/5/'Vette for the fun/track car and occasional super-commuter days. On the other hand, a C4S for economy purposes would do if you only can choose one!

    Regards,
    OW
  • jb_shinjb_shin Posts: 357
    Yes, I had a brain fart moment there. However, it was surprising when I watched Topgear segement comparing M3 and the S4. Never thought that would happen.

    Then 335 beats the RS4.
  • balboa1balboa1 Posts: 1
    Does anyone know when the pricing for the 2008 335i sedan will be available? Also, are there going to be any changes for the '08 line for the 335i?
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,445
    Well, I got tire of waiting for Munchen to fit an LSD to the 335i- or offer a 1er hatch, so I decided to try something really different; I recently bought a Mazdaspeed3(let the hoots of derision begin :surprise: )...
    Don't worry, I still have the X3 and Club Sport, and I still plan(dream) to pick up a M1 in the next years. And a 335d coupe would also be nice.
    That said, the MS3 is a four star hoot. As one magazine put it, "Place on ground, light fuse, get away!" My 12 year old has especially enjoyed my numerous Stoplight Grand Prix victories; he informed that he was glad that I wasn't an "old fogey" like a lot of his friends' dads. I also needed some FWD seat time because a friend who owns a "Tuner" shop wants to shift his focus from drag racing to autocross and track cars. He's asked me to help set up some high-horsepower FWD cars, so I figured I better get some experience with the little beasties. The best part of all is that he wants me to give him some pointers on driving his Maserati Spyder Cambiocorsa:
    image
    Hey, it's a tough job, but somebody has to do it... :P

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Dude, I think your slip is showing. :blush:

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,536
    After years of dreaming, reading, ranting, & raving about BMWs here on town hall, I'm finally getting one! My wife's '00 Protege ES is shot (to put it nicely) and so we need a new vehicle for her to haul around our 10 month old and all his gear. We got a great deal to lease a new '07 X3 3.0si! Our 1st BMW, I'm so excited!

    After we take delivery, I'm going to see if he'll let me take a 335i out for a spin.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Congratulations on your new ride. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,445
    Great choice; you'll love it! But whatever you do, don't drive the 335i.
    Unless you plan to buy one... ;)

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,536
    Well, fortunately for me my wallet won't let me buy a 335i!

    I made a $1000 over invoice deal on an '07 X5 3.0si (handles amazing for an almost 5000 lb truck) for my Dad as the lease on his '04 X5 3.0iA is up in the middle of August (73,000 miles and you should see the amazing shape it is in). My Dad usually doesn't talk to the car dealers. They call work and ask for him, but I pick up the phone. The CA happened to call after I left to get a deposit from my Dad on the X5. My Dad said to the CA "I'm getting an X5 from you in August, the lease on my wife's '05 530 is up at the end of December and she wants another BMW. Call my son here tomorrow and make him an offer he can't refuse on an X3!."

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,536
    Why would I buy a 335i now when I'm going to win an M Coupe from Ocktoberfest? I bought 4 tickets, one of them's got to be the lucky one!

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,445
    Why would I buy a 335i now when I'm going to win an M Coupe from Ocktoberfest? I bought 4 tickets, one of them's got to be the lucky one!

    Sorry, this is MY year to win the raffle... ;)

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • coastal2coastal2 Posts: 10
    Here? Making deciosion tom, please help
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