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2007 Suzuki SX4

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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "We survived...."

    Not really a good blanket statement..

    "I" survived because I grew up and learned to drive long before automatic transmissions become as common as they are today. Additionally I survived the early days of automatics by having only RWD vehicles available.

    It's a changing world, a RAPIDLY changing world..!

    You won't find me driving ANY FWD if there is even a remote chance of encountering a low traction roadbed and I will NEVER own one to drive. I might accept a FWD with a stick shift but the selection of those is pretty meager and growing less every day. 2007 RAV4 as a perfect example.
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    eo2vdqeo2vdq Member Posts: 4
    Vive la difference.

    I think you're over-reacting about FWD as millions have driven them without incident in winter. Personally I prefer them, but to each their own.

    Maybe you should look at the VW Golf which, the Cdn brochure states, has "EBA - Electronic Braking Assist prevents compression-induced skidding in slippery conditions".
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    tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    "I" survived because ...

    You survived because of some skill, some smarts, some decent technology and WHOLE LOT of LUCK - as do all of us! :)

    tidester, host
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    sx4sportsx4sport Member Posts: 3
    Black SX4 Sport w/ auto trans!!!

    I'm thrilled.
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    ava_adoreava_adore Member Posts: 14
    Hope you have more luck getting the car then I have so far.
    So far, it's taken 14 days to get between Kelowna and Edmonton.
    And really not happy with the dealer service.
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    sx4sportsx4sport Member Posts: 3
    My car is already in the dealership... I just hadn't planned to buy until I got back from a business trip and now think I'll instead by accepting delivery tomorrow!

    I'm in New York, there are tons available...

    There are also 5 different dealers within 10 miles. They're all combined dealerships, the one I went to is a Jeep/Subaru dealer as well.

    There seems to have been 1 Suzuki trained sales rep, I got to work with a Jeep rep who was nice enough (didn't have to say anything to me, though, I knew I wanted the car)
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    ava_adoreava_adore Member Posts: 14
    You're lucky...there are two near us, the one I'm dealing with, are screwing around, not returning calls etc, and being really, really rude. I've waited 15 days for a 3 day delivery.
    The other one cannot get the car in until late March.
    I LOVE the SX4, but I'm afraid Suzuki are going to lose the deal this time.
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    sx4sportsx4sport Member Posts: 3
    I don't have much faith in the dealers in general... fortunately it looks like everything is serviceable by a knowledgeable mechanic and not just a suzuki dealer with specialized equipment.... this from reading the manual, not from actually poking around in the car...

    I actually have a great deal of confidence in the car, from reading the manual... although it definitely gives the impression that this is vehicle designed to be driven as a fwd vehicle and only activate the i-awd in specific situations...

    The only thing I'm considering right now is aftermarket wheels/tires.... I just don't know how much clearance there is for wider tires... I want to go to 17" wheels and the tires would end up being 1.2" wider than the OEM tire/wheel combo...

    I just think the stock wheels are ugly, and I wasn't going hand over any extra money to the dealer.
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    dudeboydudeboy Member Posts: 55
    Tire Rack is listing packages for the SX4 now - there could be others.
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    reeser8reeser8 Member Posts: 33
    I'm self-confessed OCD about making smooth shifts, and I've managed to eliminate the revving on the SX4 when I shift. The key isn't that you have to take your foot off the gas completely when you disengage the clutch. It is enough to not be accelerating.

    That is, as I'm accelerating (for a freeway merge, etc.), if I stabilize my speed for a second, freeze my foot position on the gas pedal, and disengage the clutch, there's no revving. Then, I don't lower the gas pedal until I'm ready to re-engage the clutch. It definitely takes some concentration to achieve a totally seamless re-engaging, but you get used to it.
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    reeser8reeser8 Member Posts: 33
    Hey Dudeboy,

    I sometimes hear a rattle above the radio too. It puzzles me because the fit and finish of the SX4 is generally better than any other economy car I've ever been in, and even some non-economy cars. Keep us updated on what you find out.
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    plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Me - I used to be that way, too, but my current old truck - it has a tripple plate off-road racing clutch in it and so there's zero need to have any precision in my shifts ;)

    Of course I try - but it's like driving a military transport - the gearbox makes more noise than the entire rest of the car and tires combined. I think my drivetrain losses are easily 10% more than most people.(ie - I get about 2mph less than I should).

    But it sure is nice to not have to touch the clutch at all in 4-low.(stallproof in first) :)
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    dudeboydudeboy Member Posts: 55
    I'll try that, but it seems like if you only "match" the pedal to your present speed, rather than lifting completely, it would still rev some when you disengage the clutch. My wife and I both prefer manuals and we've adapted pretty well, but my point is that the SX4's computer control isn't consistent on this, and often there's still an unexpected awkward shift because of it.
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    dudeboydudeboy Member Posts: 55
    My current old truck has a straight cut (spur gear) transmission with no synchos. Every shift requires double clutching and matching the engine speed to the road speed for that gear. It's easier for me than driving the Suzuki, because there's a screen door spring to pull the throttle linkage back when you take your foot off the pedal!
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    raderatorraderator Member Posts: 26
    A dealer 50 miles away is apparently fraudulently sending in rebates in order to offer me a deal which is $1,000 less than the local dealer. The local dealer is giving me a very good $500 off list on a base SX4 w AT and convenience pack. His car is silver which I prefer over the techno blue of the cheater.

    Should I be honest and pay the extra $1K and get the local silver car?
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    erics6erics6 Member Posts: 684
    ??? How do you know it is fradulent? Dealers sell below cost all the time to get volume. If the other dealer has a better deal, go for it.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Plus the dealer may be getting bonus money or a cruise for selling a certain number of cars or meeting his quota. Or he's eating his holdback.

    You could ask your local dealer to match the price - you might be surprised at the answer (or you might get yelled at, LOL). :shades:
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    raderatorraderator Member Posts: 26
    I told the local dealer about the other guy. That's how I got $500 off, right off the bat, which is about $150 over invoice. He said they could not go lower.

    I confronted the other dealer, on the phone, about his "rebate" (his word) and said that I am not in the military nor a recent college grad (pretty obvious by looking at me) and he was silent.

    It is pretty clear that he is faking the rebates.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    If your suspicions are correct then the audit trail will catch up with that dealer in a few months.

    Meanwhile, I'm not inclined to leave $1,000 on the table, although there is something to be said for having a local dealer go to bat for you if you have car problems.

    It looks like you are on top of the True Market Value numbers from your recent posts over in the Suzuki SX4: Prices Paid & Buying Experience discussion.

    You may want to check out the Rebates, Incentives, APRs - Questions & Comments discussion too.
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    raderatorraderator Member Posts: 26
    I know the AT has a higher final drive ratio but I don't think that has anything to do with final RPMs since the final gear can vary. I've been waiting for an MT but may go for an AT if it's quieter at 80 mph.
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    plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    You know "buyer beware" also works both ways. If the person selling it makes a mistake, you're under no legal obligation to correct them.
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    erics6erics6 Member Posts: 684
    Dealers are selling SX4's below invoice where I live. Your local dealer should come down in price. Don't think a dealer could get away with faking the rebate for very long. Seems like the other dealer is willing to sell for less.

    I've personally never had problems servicing my vehicles at another dealer. Heck, that's where the dealer earns their $$$, warranty a little less, but regular servicing is the big gravy.
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    dudeboydudeboy Member Posts: 55
    I know the AT has a higher final drive ratio but I don't think that has anything to do with final RPMs since the final gear can vary. I've been waiting for an MT but may go for an AT if it's quieter at 80 mph.

    If the automatic has a lock-up torque converter, and most likely it does, then the rpm will not vary and will be in direct relation to the difference in the final drive ratio with the manual. I don't think you would want to drive 80 MPH for any distance with the manual, because the engine noise will be high and gas mileage pretty low.
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    ap43ap43 Member Posts: 1
    Can anyone tell me how wide the trunk area is on the SX4? Can you lay down a set of golf clubs in the trunk area with the back seats in normal position?

    Thanks.
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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Even I don't want to believe this.

    Search here at Edmunds or google for:

    "throttle lag" hesitation.

    It appears that almost all FWD transaxles are now upshifting upon a FULL lift-throttle event in order to prevent or at least somewhat alleviate engine braking on the front wheels.

    The symptom you are describing for your manual transaxles could have the same origin, root cause.

    Try releasing the clutch a tad before lifting the gas pedal, throttle, fully and see if that doesn't prevent the "nanny" mode.

    Engine braking on the front wheels/tires can be extremely dangerous should the roadbed be slippery, snow, ice, etc. So it may be like the new shift pattern adopted for FWD automatic transaxles the engine coming UP in revs is simply the "nanny" mode rev-matching the engine speed to road speed to prevent any serious level of engine braking however short term.

    Not sure I believe all this myself but the evidence is certainly beginning to point to a new "nanny" feature.

    The 2007 RAV4, FWD, does not have an available stick shift. Too easy for the generally dumbed down US drivers to get themselves into trouble by downshifting a FWD on a slippry roadbed..??
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    ava_adoreava_adore Member Posts: 14
    I think it would. :)
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    1999johnner1999johnner Member Posts: 27
    Not sure how other owners are feeling about thier SX4 in snow?

    Here in CT we have not had much snow this winter season, we had our 1st decent snow/winter mix of the season today (sad but only about 6-7 inches)

    I have to say that this little AWD hatchback is GREAT (note I do have four goodyear snow tires) much more sure footed then my bigger Trailblazer that is for sure! Could use a tad more ground clearnce but its not poor. I can't say its better then my first awd car, which was an Audio 4000 Quantro - but it is pretty darn close!

    thats all

    John

    2007 SX4 Automatic - 7800 miles
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    arkainzeyearkainzeye Member Posts: 473
    btw what is the ground clearance of the sx4, i never looked into that. shockingly we had about 4-6inches here and in my 2004 chevy tracker zr-2 (4x4) i didnt even have to put it in 4x4 today when i drove to work (35miles). i dont know if they changed something in the tracker as my 99 tracker would have had to be put in 4x4 mode. I know what you mean about ground clearance though, in the past i had a dodge colt that was great in snow. But in deep snow it would drag on the frame, and if it got too deep it would start to drag and slow the car down.
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    ava_adoreava_adore Member Posts: 14
    Finally got the vehicle, 3 weeks later.
    WORST DEALER EVER. They ended up committing fraud, and we have to take them to the court. Way to ruin my excitement.
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    arkainzeyearkainzeye Member Posts: 473
    has anyone been on the suzuki website recently. i see they list the aerio has having QuadGrip All-wheel Drive. How is this different from the SX-4's awd?
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    calgarysuzukicalgarysuzuki Member Posts: 7
    Dude, i live in Calgary, AB, Canada and we've just dumped with about a foot of snow in a week but during that time it would warm up suddenly and melt the snow turning it into huge slush puddles and this city is not known for its snow removal service. I have the JLX Automatic and she handled beautifully in lock mode. Where others were slipping and sliding, I was coasting gracefully by. I'm overall, very happy with my little sx4. But,there is one thing I still dont understand about it. WHY am i getting such crappy mileage. I've been reading around and owners of the jlx automatic are avraging 23-25 in mixed city driving. My last tank I GOT 16.5 mpg. I couldn't believe it. i used 36 litres of gas and traveled 210 km. Mind you it was cold all that week (-20 celcius) but still thats unacceptable. Are tbere others out there having a similar situation? :confuse:
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    arkainzeyearkainzeye Member Posts: 473
    what amount of air pressure do you have in your tires? there has to be a reason why you are getting that low of mpg. my 2004 tracker with 4x4 and a 2.5 V-6 gets 20mpg in city driving with it being cold and snowy.ive never dont highway driving with it yet. but got a car that size with a 4 banger engine, you should get more mpg than that. thats like ford explorer mileage!
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    carritocarrito Member Posts: 38
    do you leave your car warming up several minutes in the morning? while idle you're getting 0 mpg, that will bring down your overall mpg. did you get yours with ESP? I understand it's now available in Canada.
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    prouloproulo Member Posts: 26
    No. You can not fit a set of golf clubs in the rear trunk area. You have to put down one of the seats or like I have done recently is lay the golf bag across the back seat.
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    raderatorraderator Member Posts: 26
    OK, the local dealer just came down another $800 off list after first telling me he could only give me $500 off. This is the silver color I want and not the gaudy techno blue which the out-of-town dealer is offering me for another $300 off.

    So for $15,599 (includes destination) I can get a silver base SX4 w convenience pack and AT. I've pretty much given up on the idea of the MT after finding out it does 4000rpm @ 80mph.

    I test drove this exact car for over an hour and found nothing wrong with it. It even seemed fairly zippy.

    I guess it's worth $300 to get the color I want from the local guy and a car which I have driven for a long test drive.

    The alternative car I was looking at was a base LX silver Kia Rondo for the same price. BUT, that car has no AWD, no roof rails, no mp3/wma, no intermitance on the rear wiper and no keyless entry. The thing I like about it tho is the nice styling and cargo area which is big enough for two people to camp in.

    The gas mileage for both cars is about 24.

    One extra thing I like about the SX4 is that I can remove the back seats, which I have no use for. Maybe this will allow the fronts seats to recline far enough to make a decent bed, especially if I put a short cushion on the cargo floor.

    AWD would be a big help to me here in the snowbelt, especially since I take my dog into the state forests nearly every day. I'm thinking of moving to SC but I know I will be visiting the mountains in the winter just to see some snow. I doubt they plow and salt them much if at all. Plus, it would be fun to find some beach trails.

    I know I could get 30mpg with a Honda Fit but I'd have to wait a long time to get one I liked. I drove a base model AT and it seemed like a toy. A sport MT would be fun but I'm sure I'd bust off all the plastic trim parts from the bottom, unless I just remove them and sell them on eBay.
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    calgarysuzukicalgarysuzuki Member Posts: 7
    Just as a sidebar. I refulled over the weekend and the weather was more agreeable (in the plus) and I got 230km to a half tank which equals out at 28mpg. The best mileage i've gotten to date ever in mixed city driving. I'm just venturing a guess but i think the Sx4 is very susceptable to cold weather and its milage will vary depending on the ambient temperature. I still wish she was still quicker off the mark tho. Even if i floor it from a dead stop i feel like i could get out to kick it in the [non-permissible content removed] to get it going fast. :) I STILL LOVE MY LIL ZUK! :P
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    raderatorraderator Member Posts: 26
    Just signed for my silver SX4. They also had 2.9% for 48 months that I didn't know about. That'll net me about $520 after taxes over 4 years if money market rates stay at 4.9% or above.

    I spent about 3 hours with this car an couldn't find anything wrong with it. It didn't even seem underpowered. At 80mph it turns at a very nice 3000rpm.
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    raderatorraderator Member Posts: 26
    If you live in the snow belt, you need traction control. I just got my base model today and went out to a local snowed-in park to test the AWD system. At first it seemed great. I could plow through several inches of snow. But then I parked on the side of a road with the left wheels on pavement and the right wheels in crusty snow. I was instantly stuck. Only some shoveling and kitty litter got me out, just barely.
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    pk12pk12 Member Posts: 7
    There are several biodiesel stations here in the Seattle area. If I could buy this AWD in a diesel, for the better gas mileage and alt fuel, I would probably replace both my cars (ZX3 and Elantra GT).

    There are probably many others like me who live in the city, want a small hatchack with good gas mileage, and travel in snow/mountains fairly regularly.

    Pardon my ignorance, but is it possible to import cars? I would be willing to dish out a few $k for a little "green" SUV.
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    arkainzeyearkainzeye Member Posts: 473
    i think what your talking about is exactly what subaru brags about. something about transfering power from the wheels that slip to the wheels that grip? I dont own a Subaru but when you mentioned about your problem thats the first thing that popped into my mind. im wonderingif that traction control would even of helped you..would it of been able to control which axle grips? just wondering... so basically if im understanding this correctly, your awd is useless; unless all 4 wheels are on a slippery surface? its funny how they call it ALL wheel drive, when if it was truely all wheel drive you wouldnt of been stuck on the side of the road sholving! its more like one wheel up front and behind... now the real world testers are coming forward. i appreciate your info. very important! thank you..
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    raderatorraderator Member Posts: 26
    Now that I think of it, only one wheel was actually on firm pavement. One was on packed snow and the other two were in a couple of inches of crusty snow. It certainly didn't look like it should be stuck.

    I don't know if the traction control of the "sport" would have helped or not. Even if it were only capable of selectively applying the brakes to each wheel, it should. Since the car already has ABS sensors, traction control seems like it's worth doing.

    I wonder if the dealer would swap a car after one day?
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    plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    There are two systems for AWD in use.

    The first is the typical crud. It merely transfers power to the other set of wheels - so it's part-time 4X4 that uses tons of computers to compensate. But it's slow to respond and brain-dead as it loves to switch back and forth without your input. In short, it works about as well as a limiter-slip diff.(ie - barely at all except light mud and snow) Toyota, Honda, GM, Ford, Hyundai, and the rest all use this junk.

    The Second is 4X4 with dual transfer cases. This allows you to run in 4x4 mode all the time, even on the highway. Volvo, Audi, and Subaru use a system like this and it works exactly like your typical big SUV. It's totally different than the rest. They of course market it as "AWD" but it's really a 4x4 sedan.(just they don't like the "truck" image and use different terms like "Quattro" and "AWD", which confuse buyers)

    Oh - and it works. :)

    I *think* the SX4 also has this - because you can manually override it and force it into all-time 4wd mode on bad roads.(ie - it's the first system, but with a lockout, which makes the computers get out of the equation)
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    dudeboydudeboy Member Posts: 55
    Any car can get stuck, especially when you "try" to. Now you know the limits of your car, which is something that most people on the road have yet to find out. Be happy with the car you have, and enjoy it more because of your experience. Where I live, people in SUV's end up on their tops continually, because they don't know the limits of their vehicle and for the most part don't realize what they are driving on (condition of road surface.) When they crawl out of the vehicle and then realize they can't even stand up on the slippery road surface, learning begins to take place. I heard of (2) SUV's on their tops just this morning within a few miles of where I live. An alternative since you and I don't have traction control, might be to apply a little bit of brake to see if that helps. Sometimes you will force another wheel to start spinning, and the car will move enough to regain traction and pull away. Were you on an incline, or crowned surface?
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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    These days in way too many implementations AWD simply means that all four wheels are driven unless/until one tire slips, then like RWD and FWD it becomes...

    ONE WHEEL DRIVE.

    TC, Traction Control, traction braking and dethrottling is simply a method, a poor one, of feathering the throttle for those that have no experience driving on the slippery stuff.

    It should be absolutely mandatory on FWD or front torque biased AWD vehicles, but only as to be a warning that you have encountered a slippery roadbed or roadbed section.

    If you NEED traction, turn TC off and learn how to manage, "feather", the throttle in such a way as to bring the engine torque just barely up to the level of traction coefficient.
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    plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Right. :) Because once one wheel slips, the computers turn it into 2wd on that axle and the limited-slip diff kicks in. (bad bad design as we both pointed out).

    What we need to look for is either a 4x4 lock mode or a proper 4x4 "AWD" system that doesn't do silly things like that.
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    dudeboydudeboy Member Posts: 55
    You may have meant "center differential" rather than dual transfer cases? AWD with an unlocked center differential will give you only "one wheel drive" under extreme conditions. This can be demonstrated by jacking up one wheel and then attempting to drive the car - it won't move. Methods of locking the center differential such as manual, viscous coupling, or electric clutches, will drive at least one wheel at each axle. If methods are used to "lock" the axle differentials, apply electric clutches, or even the brake, then all four wheels can be made to "pull" when necessary.
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    plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Correct. The SX4 has a4wd lock feature that kills the annyoing on-off behavior, but it's not all-time 4x4, which is how most AWD cars are marketed. It's certainly not any safer to have part-time AWD from what I can tell. Maybe it'll help you get up a hill with some snow on it, but if the AWD system is FWD biased and your front wheels aren't getting traction, adding the rears won't usually do anything at all.(though the reverse can help - RWD with fronts kicking in when needed)

    Me? I love my old 4-Runner. It's old, it's got off-road bits on it, and it's totally the anti-bling-mobile. But it's my off-road Tonka Toy ;)

    You want off-road capability, you gotta get a real 4x4.
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    raderatorraderator Member Posts: 26
    Nobody cares about your stupid old 4-runner. What we want to know is if the the SX4 traction control works.
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    tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Nobody cares about your ...

    Speak for yourself! :)

    This is just a friendly conversation and if there are comments you don't wish to read then try that scroll bar over to the right.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Of course the RAV4's TC, Traction Control works, it's an absolutely MUST HAVE for any FWD or FWD "based" AWD vehicle. Anytime either of the front driven wheels begins to slip or spin TC will apply BOTH front brakes while at the same time dethrottling the engine to prevent undue heating and eventual warping of the front brake rotors.

    Except.

    If you have "auto" LSD engaged. In that case it will only brake the slipping wheel thereby sustaining a higher level of drive torque, 50% of which will now go automatically to the front wheel with traction. But read the caution note in your owners manual before using this mode.

    An unaware driver can have the stearing wheel yanked right out of your hands in auto front LSD.

    But I suspect your underlying question is if the TC "bits" used to implement the RAV4's AWD system, divert engine drive torque to the rear, really works.

    I dunno.
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