65/66 mustang the only stang worth a damn

roadroach

But what could have been special about my '66 Fastback way back when? Any way to find out?

sdgrant

The "early '65" cars were built from March 5, 1964 through August 17, 1964. Initial engine choices were:

170 cubic inch straight 6 (U-code in the VIN)
260 cubic inch V-8 2V (F-code in the VIN)
289 cubic inch V-8 4V (D-code in the VIN)

About the second week of June, 1964, the first Hi-Po 289 engine (K-code in the VIN) was offered to the public.

DSO 89 fastback: If you can dig up your build sheet (under the carpet or wrapped around the wiring harness behind the dash) that would answer a lot of questions. What are the other codes on your warranty plate and your VIN number?

Mr_Shiftright

The books show the DSO89 code as "Transportation Services" but no one explains what that means...rather annoying...the other codes are readily explained, such as 84= Home Office REserve, 85= American Red Cross and 90= Export.

thanks for the info...Ford launched the Mustang early to help generate that incredible publicity, but they list all Mustangs as 1965 cars, in spite of when they were made....uncommon practice then, but now we see this kind of thing all the time...pretty soon we'll be able to buy 2003 cars in 2001 at this rate!

Hey, that would be lucky to find the build sheet!

jpstax

AMC is showing the movie again at 2:00 AM Eastern time this morning. I recorded it tonight at the earlier showing (8:00 PM Eastern). I still can't get over that GREAT chase scene. Somebody told me that Steve McQueen's car is a '67 Mustang GT, with a 427 engine. Is that true? The assasin's car is a '66 Dodge Charger, with a 440 Magnum.

roadroach

Unfortunately, the teardown process for the restoration did not reveal any buildsheets (under carpet, attached to bottom of seat, behind interior trim, wrapped around wiring harness, etc.) The car is currently a shell which has been stripped to bare metal, rust repaired, misc. bondo patches eradicated, etc. I think the interior was spiffed up in 1980 due to a short note and name written in pencil on the back of one of the interior door panels. I am currently attempting to track down the name.

The VIN is 6F09A###### (1966, made at Dearborn, fastback, 'A' code 289-4v engine)

Trim codes are: 63B body (fastback, luxery interior, bucket seats), Z color (sauterne gold), 68 trim (ivy gold and white interior), 07J date (made 7 September, 1965), 89 DSO (transportation services), 1 axle code (3.00:1 open diff), 6 trans (C-4 Cruise-o-matic).

Had it all figured but the 'transportation services' bit. BTW, the car is an original GT (fogs, dual exhaust trumpets, disk brakes, etc.) near as I can tell.

Mr_Shiftright

I don't think the DSO code is very important other than for mere curiousity, so I wouldn't break my back on it if I were you. It has nothing to do with value or authenticity, as you know, so you may have learned as much as you need about it.

roadroach

Good point. Curiousity was about the only thing driving this anyway. The car is certainly not going back stock anyway so why worry about it.

sdgrant

From your data plate, it sounds like this could have been a special order for a Ford executive. GT, pony interior, all the right goodies for a pampered exec looking for a top-shelf Mustang. Did it have A/C? Other options, like styled-steel wheels, console? I'm a stock purist, so I would restore it to original, but I would do that with almost any car!

Is the hole in the dash face for the fog light switch "D"-shaped? That's a pretty good indication of a factory fog light set, which was a separate option but almost exclusively used with the GT package. Sauterne Gold is a pretty rare color on a GT, haven't seen one myself. It looks good when done well, but most Sauterne Gold cars I've seen are pretty faded. With the ivy gold/white pony interior, that would be a sharp combination!

roadroach

No A/C, no console. It does have the styled steel wheels and the high profile rally-pac. The rally-pac is painted ivy gold while the steering column is white. I thought they were supposed to match. I'll have to look at the dash tonight to check the hole for the fog-light switch. I got the car in '89 and all of the misc. GT stuff (lights, trumpets, stripes, emblems, brakes, etc.) looked like they had been on the car for QUITE some time.

I don't think I've ever seen Sauterne Gold fresh and new. When I got the car, the paint was in TERRIBLE shape and I hated the color. I've always liked the R code Ivy Green which was also available with the ivy gold/white interior. Needless to say, the car is now a lovely Ivy Green metallic.

Car also sports 4-wheel disk, T-5 trans, 4:11 9" trac-loc rear, rear panhard rod, over-rider traction bars, 5 leaf reverse-eye leaf springs, Koni's all around, tubular front a-arms dropped 1-1/2" with a negative wedge kit, subframe connectors, Shelby Pittman and idler arm, poly bushings, stiffer front sway bar, Boss 302 front springs cut 1", beefed-up shock towers, export brace, straight Monte Carlo bar, 15x7 Torque Thrust D's, 4-pt roll bar, racing harnesses, and a much massaged '68 mexican block 302. With the exception of being lowered and having the new rims, the car LOOKS pretty stock. I know you're probably crying about now, but a purist, I ain't.

Mr_Shiftright

Well, you two guys are in different situations, with one car pretty rare and the other collectible but certainly not scarce or irreplacable, so I think personally you're both doing the right thing here.

macadam1

For jpstax: I think the "Bullit" Mustang is a '68, I seem to recall it had the rear quarter panel red marker lights. I believe 1968 was the first year for them.

ndance

I remember reading in an older magazine
(Sports Car Graphic maybe?) that the car
had a 390.

macadam1

During the car chase count the number of hub caps that fly off the Dodge Charger, then in a side shot of the Charger [just before the crash] check how many are still on. In a Mustang Monthly article about the movie [about a 3 year old issue] film clips showing the attached tow bar on the Mustang were printed. The car was probably towed during some close-up or dangerous sequences. I seem to remember that it stated if you looked closely you could almost make out the tow bar.

bubukitty

Ok you Mustang Guru's out there, I need a little help. I have always loved the '67-'68 Mustang convertibles, and have located a '68 GT at a Mustang restoration shop. It is black (originally turquoise) with buckskin deluxe interior, "J" code (not sure what that means), tilt wheel, with a 302 and 4-speed transmission. Original California black plate car but the guy said the rear floor pan had rust and was replaced (said that was normal for 'Stang convertibles where carpets could get wet). The car is a stated #2 condition (pics look good), rebuilt motor, tranny exhaust and much new all around. He is asking $24,000. No ownership history or records. Is this a fair price for the car with the GT package and 4-speed? Hard to find a 4-spd GT convertible around, but considering that it is not the original color (and likely interior color), could use some afficianado's advice if this is a good deal

ndance

The Charger missed the gas station (watch closely
next time). The motorcycle at the end of the
chase is driven by the Charger driver (...I think)
Ah, the magic of film editing.

ndance

Sounds too high to me. I don't think it's an
exotic enough model to go for that much. I kind
of think that most #2 cars are actually #3 condition. 'J' is 302-4v (is the engine original?)
For 24k you could get a really really nice
Boss 302 or SS 350 Z11 pace car or 65-66 'K'
convertible. The only '68s I'd pay a lot for
would be 428 cars. Especially with a non-original
color repaint. No dice.

In general, it seems to me that the lesser muscle
cars are going for too much lately (stock market
being absurdly high? Who knows?). I think when
prices settle back down again (they will, they will) you'd probably be better off buying one of
the more interesting models rather than a nice
'transportation' version of a Mustang or whatever.

Mr_Shiftright

WAYYYYY too high! Keep shopping. It's a $12K-15K car all day long...and rust gives me the willies...did they get ALL the rust (Rust Never Sleeps).

I'm not sure people are really paying these high "asking" prices. Lots of these inflated cars go unsold. People are not as naive as they were in the 1980s and early 90s about collectible cars. Just because a guy buried himself in a restoration doesn't mean the market is obligated to buy him out of it. If someone spends too much restoring a car, they have to take the lumps. Better judgement next time prevents such unfortunate losses.

bubukitty

ndance and Shifty, thank you for your sage advice. I appreciate it. Seemed a little high to me, but was not too sure. I think my interest in a '68 GT 4-speed convertible was clouding my judgement! I was a little leary of the color change part and do not know if it is a numbers matching car. The restorer said he bought it as a rolling chassis basically with all of the parts from a guy who owned a paint shop and never finished the restoration himself. The paint shop guy did the black color change which is supposed to be pretty nice. Oh well, maybe I should hold out for a better car with a known history at a more reasonable price. Thanks guys.

Mr_Shiftright

Well, the color change will hurt its value, and unless they can prove it was a real GT, it could be a counterfeit GT...this is not hard to do. Also keep in mind that the 65-67 Mustangs are generally more valuable than the later Mustangs (with a few well-known exceptions and some of the Shelbys).

macadam1

Mr Shiftright is 100% correct re. valuation % documentation. There are many reasonably priced examples that turn out to be fun cars on a sunny summer weekend. Spring and fall "Carlisle" [Penna. vender & car swap] runs the price gamut, but tends to feature mid priced cars. Might be a good idea when looking for a correct collectible to hire an expert in that particular marque.

kinley

will get you a #1 65 or 66 GT (factory) convertible in the Pacific NW market. Oh sure, asking up to $32,000, but the real sale price is $20,000 after all the BS when the seller is hot to sell for some reason. As long as there are the original issue Stangs, they will increase in value faster than the 67's on up. Remember, this applies to only the GT's. Recently a 65 GT (factory) convert with console, rally pac, pony interior, original color, that has taken 1st place in Concourse D'Elegance, Forrest Grove, OR is still for sale at $32,000. I have seen some former coupes that are now convertibles with a 351 engine. AOD trannys are being installed in older Stangs today so anything can happen.

bubukitty

Thanks for all of the input and advice. I have been looking at the ads in Hemmings and other sites on the internet and the prices are all over the board, and then there is the issue of making sure what you buy is the genuine article. A lot to think about, but I guess having documentation on the specific car from the beginning is probably the best way to go beside having a Mustang expert take a look at it.

macadam1

bubukitty: Correct documentation is cheaper than hiring an expert and occasionally you may run into an original owner who is looking to sell. I'm one of those original owner rare birds who can prove authenticity so they are out there. Many long time owners are glad to validate their vehicles history especially to those in a serious buying mode.

theguyoverhere

My Dad bought a '66 Mustangtang Convertible about 11 years ago from a private seller. It's been sitting in his garage for the past 6 years and I've convinced him to sell it to me for a bargain price. However I've heard from several sources that this year mustang has several safety issues including the steering column not collapsing, people in the back seat burning to death from a rear end collision, and inadequate seat belts. My knowledge of Mustangs of this era is very limited, so any information provided would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Mr_Shiftright

It's really a non-issue...ALL 60s cars are dangerous compared to modern ones. Your only choices are to risk driving them or to modify the cars and possibly diminish their values. Most judges these days will not deduct points or value for the addition of good seat belts. I never deduct value for that, but I would for changing the steering wheel or steering column.

Statistically, the accident rate for "collectible cars" is quite low, because most people drive them carefully. If you want an everyday driver to go fast in, buy something more modern and practical, I'd say. If you rack up a "classic car" really hard, you're probably going to get hurt, no doubt about it.

The story about burning to death is unfounded and silly. Forget that worry. They are thinking of very early Ford Pintos.

roadroach

Don't listen to Shifty.....those '66s are DEATHTRAPS waiting to explode in a huge fireball at the slightest tap. Nothing you can do will resolve the problem. Seatbelts won't help. Collapsible steering columns won't help. Convertibles are especially bad.

But I could probably be persuaded to take that nasty old convertible off your hands for $500........purely for your own safety, you understand.....8^)

roadroach

BTW - my preceeding column was pure sarcasm....

Shifty's entirely correct. ANY old car from the 60's or earlier (or 70's even) don't hold a candle compared to modern automobiles. The ONLY problem I see would be the difficulty of installing 3-pt belts in a convertible. Of course, you could add a really cool roll bar (don't have a heart attack Shiftright) and some good 4 or 5-pt belts and be in great shape.

As far as the fire concern goes - I think this stems from the fact that the panel between the trunk and passenger compartment is just a piece of fiberboard on the original cars (I think). But you can get replacement metal panels aftermarket easily. Good luck with the car.

theguyoverhere

To Mr Shift_Right and Road Roach, thanks a lot for the advice guys, I just wanted to make sure I checked in with some "Mustang Experts" before I went out and bought the car. Thanks again.

kinley

It's safer than driving today's cars while talking on the cell 'phone. If you have time, tell us more about the 66 Convert and make us drool.

Mr_Shiftright

That's good advice. Life is too short to worry about such things. Our parents obviously lived through driving some incredibly "unsafe" cars, so we will too!

I often drive my buddy's Model A Ford. Brakes are non-existant, steers like a couch on wheels, accelerates like a push-scooter.going uphill. But I've driven many safe miles with it. It's just a matter of remembering what you're driving.

theguyoverhere

If I do end up buying the stang, it will definatly need a new engine, right now it has a puny V-6 (not the original)... I'd like to put a new V-8 in there. Any one have any reccomendations of a good engine?

kinley

www.autotrader.com and www. ebaymotors.com

sdgrant

Try http://www.vintage-mustang.com and http://www.cars-on-line.com/mustangmenu.html

jwoods4

The car(s) used in Bullitt were all 68 models, including the Dodge Charger(s). The Mustangs were a mix of GT's and "plain" fastbacks, all with the 390 4v engine. There were several used, I think the actual number was around 5, with 2 of those being actual GT's. The GT cars can be identified by the fact that the studio did not remove the GT rear valences or the GT badging. I have lots more useless trivia facts about the movie if you are interested.

I currently own a 68 fastback, and try my best to find any and all movies, toys, etc. that pertain to this, in my opinion, most beautiful year of production. My grandad gave me this car when I was 12. I had a choice between it, a 67 coupe, or a 69 Mach 1. The car is currently in the COMPLETE restoration (read- restmod) process.

roadroach

I don't suppose your car is a '68 GT, is it? Those are actually, to my knowledge, somewhat rare (or at least rarer than my '66 GT).

I'm in the process of a rather extensive restomod on my car now. Just out of curiousity, what kind of stuff are you doing to your fastback?

jwoods4

No, unfortunately it's no GT. It was originally a 289/c4 car, with power steering, center console, fold down rear seat, and am radio. Original colors are white with blue standard interior. My plans are to convert to disc brakes up front with Stainless Steel Brakes' conversion kit, a Currie limited slip rearend in the original 8" housing, Canadian Mustang's "REAL BIG KIT" suspension kit with a 1" drop front and rear, and 17" American Racing polished Torque Thrust II wheels. The major modification will be the change over to a 95 model 5.0 complete with computer and SEFI, as well as the AOD tranny. this will be possible with Windsor Fox's change over kits. Later I intend to do the usual 5.0 bolt-ons as well as a Vortec supercharger. The body will remain essentially unchanged with the addition of a Shelby style "ducktail" rear spoiler and side scoops and the required white with blue Le Mans stripe paint. The interior will also remain mostly stock except for Recaro seats and aftermarket stereo, and the addition of a factory style A/C unit from Vintage Air.

bri66

Can anyone give me advice on how to remove and replace the bottom two bolts that secures the mounting bracket to the inside fender apron. I purchased a new replacement tray, but stopping short of dismantling the entire front end I can not figure how to get those two bottom bolts off.

Thanks
Bri66

roadroach

When you're talking about a few modifications, you aren't kidding.

I thought the '68 Mustang had the 302? Wasn't '67 the last year for the 289?

Personally, I like everything you're talking about doing except the 17" rims. My .02 is that extremely low-profile rubber just doesn't look 'right' on the older cars and with 17" rims, you probably can't run anything higher than 45 or 50 series tires. I've got 15"x7" Torq Thrust 'D' on my car. Have you considered maybe the 16" Torque Thrust II's rather than the 17"?

If you leave the body/paint COMPLETELY unchanged, you'll have more of a 'sleeper' on your hands (if a '68 fastback could ever be considered a 'sleeper') but paint it with blue le mans stripes and it just screams 'cop bait'.

If you go aftermarket stereo, please, please, PLEASE don't butcher up the dash. If is fairly expensive to fix correctly.

roadroach

Hmmmm, its been so long since I replaced the battery tray in my car, I can't remember.

Of course, the entire front end of my car WAS dissassembled at the time (bumper, grill, fenders, etc.) so I don't remember having any particular difficulty with the bolts you mentioned.

jwoods4

The 289 was an option for 68, although not a very popular one, and only for the first half of the year. You know, "left overs". The 17" wheels were decided after watching the new Gone In 60 Seconds. Before that, 16" was the way to go. Now it's 17" and 40 series rubber. As far as the body goes, I just like the stripes. No way will I butcher the dash. My car has the floor console with the aluminum roll up door under the radio. This console is not reproduced anywhere that I have found. As a matter of fact, I will be leaving the still perfect Philco am radio and single dash speaker operational! The aftermarket stereo will be a completely hidden unit with a remote control and remote display hidden behind the roll up door on the console.
All big plans, with some parts gotten, some ordered. Right now, with a new car for my wife and a new house both on the agenda for this year, work will probably cease for this year. All of the money earmarked for a finished car by the end of the year has been redirected into a downpayment for the house. Oh well, I have owned it for almost 15 years, with 13 of those being in storage and 10 of the storage years having all of my parts "bagged-and-tagged". What's a couple more years to wait for completion?!?!?

roadroach

I think you've been reading my mind regards the stereo. I've got the original AM radio in my (now repaired) dash and have been thinking about the hidden stereo route. Aren't most of the remotes on the market for car stereo IR remotes though? (must have clear line of sight from remote to head unit). Otherwise, I was going to put a head unit in the glovebox in my car (no console in my '66).

I know how it goes regarding the 'couple of more years to wait' theme. I tore mine down in '91 and have attacked it in fits and starts ever since. The body work is done, base coat of paint is on. After final assembly and working the bugs out, the clearcoat will go on. The engine has been done for years now. All thats left to me now is reassembly and I've got somebody helping me with that right now. Hopefully, I'll be back on the road at the end of February or early March.

bri66

Roadroach
Was able to replace with minimum time. The heads of the two bottom bolts are behind the mounting bracket for the front bumper support brace............. of course that's attached to the front splash pan that's connected to the...........................
Question, can anyone tell me how good vinyl dye is for a replacement dash pad?

Thanks
Bri66

jwoods4

DON'T DO IT!!! Just get the replacement pad in the color you need. Unless you have it professionally dyed, it will run, fade, or crack. I promise.

Roadroach, Custom Autosound carries a hidden unit that the display/ir receiver is also remotely located, and attatched to the rest of the stereo via a small wire bundle, allowing you to mount the "meat" of the stereo in, say, your glovebox. Then mount the ir receiver/display panel with some double sided tape most anywhere, say, on your sun visor, then your remote will have line of sight but no one else will. Just wire it all up seperately from your am radio, and there you go. Or, if you just mounted a headunit in your glovebox, you could drive around with your glovebox door open so the remote could "see" your headunit. Also, have you seen the "humphugger" aftermarket consoles available for your car? One of those would allow you to mount a complete headunit/cd changer in it and if you wired it in with a quick disconnect plug, you could remove the whole thing in about 30 seconds. You should really get a subscription to Mustang Monthly magazine and also join the Mustang Club of America, if you haven't already. Which reminds me, both of mine just ran out!! I need to renew.

roadroach

Thanks for the tip. I had seen the unit from Custom Autosound but was really looking for something with a little higher 'fidelity'. Just curious if any of the name brands had non-ir remotes. (or, if equipped with removable dash panel, maybe I could wire up a harness to run between the dash panel/display and the head unit). Don't particularly relish the idea of driving around with the glovebox door open. Blah.

I'd seen the humphugger consoles but didn't know they would take a headunit. That may be the best route. I especially like being able to take the whole thing out easily for shows.

Already subscribe to Mustang Monthly (and Mustangs/Fast Fords, etc.) but haven't joined MCA.

The problem Bri66 is probably facing is the fact that replacement dashpads for the 65/66 cars are not available in all of the factory colors. My car has the ivy gold/white Pony interior which takes a dark ivy green dash pad. This is not available in a replacement. Fortunately, my dash pad is in great shape (no cracks). I think it was replaced in the mid 80's before I got the car.

bri66

Roachman

Wish I could find a manufacturer who offers an Aqua / Turquois, but all I can find is Black, Blue, or Burgundy. Do you know of a manufacturer who can get me what I am looking for?

Thanks
Bri66

roadroach

I'll try to remember to check my catalogs when I get home this evening but, if I remember correctly, I think the 66's are only available in 3 colors and the 65's in 3 colors. I don't recall seeing Aqua/Turquois available anywhere in dash pads.

Personally, I haven't had any experience with the vinyle dyes but it sounds like jwoods4 might have. You might talk to someone at an upholstery shop about dying dash pads and explain the problem. They're sure to have better advice than I can give.

Does you car have the Aqua and White interior? I've always liked that combo.

bri66

Roadroach
My pony has the standard aqua interior, but I am in the process of changing to the white and aqua pony interior. I have talked to the people of a paint store and they have shown me samples of vinyl that has been dyed. They claim if the vinyl is cleaned with lacquer thinner prior to dye application it will last many years.

Thanks
Bri66

roadroach

Go for it. I sincerely doubt you'll find an aqua dash pad so your only alternative is to dye it. If you can find an upholstery shop in your area, so much the better since they will have the expertise needed in dealing with the vinyls used in early Mustangs.

Let us know how it goes.

jwoods4

Definately let the professionals dye your pad, or at least let them guide you through it. Like I said in my previous post, you will definately r
egret it if you don't.

Roadroach, in one of my recent MM issues, Jeff Ford, the editor, had a 6 disc changer inside of a humphugger console in his "Project Lazarus" Mach I. Surely it would accomodate a decent headunit. It would also place it close enough to negate the need for a remote at all. Wish I was at that stage of retoration. At least it's not getting any worse sitting in my garage.

jwoods4

Have you considered a N.O.S dash pad? You could try the internet or look in the back of MM and call some of the vendors.