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Acura TL vs 2007 Toyota Camry

patpat Posts: 10,421
edited March 12 in Acura
Lots of folks are comparing these two vehicles in many places in the Forums.

Has the new Camry stepped up beyond its previous class? Has it graduated to a league which includes the "Entry-Level Luxury" sedans? How does it compare with the TL specifically?

Let us know what you think!
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Comments

  • fsowirlesfsowirles Posts: 195
    Thanks for the new thread. The mere fact that there is enough discussion to incur it's own thread lends credence to the fact that these two cars are being cross shopped. While it may not have been a goal of Toyota, and Acura is not overly concerned....the two vehicles do cross paths. More specifically, the SE V6 and XLE V6 can provide similar driving experience for less money than a comparably equipped TL. Since the TL only comes with the options for with or without Nav (summer tires are a no cost option, and the A-Spec puts it into a different class of car althogether) a fully optioned SE V6 is right there for thousands less.
  • lmacmillmacmil Posts: 1,756
    I don't too many Acura shoppers are looking a Camrys also. I think most Acura buyers are looking to move up to a luxury brand and while the Camry may arguably represent a better value, it certainly doesn't have the cache of Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, etc.

    We'll never know the stats but my guess is that well under 10% of potential TL buyers will seriously consider a Camry and even fewer Camry buyers are considering a TL. But I'm sure this will be a lively discussion.
  • fsowirlesfsowirles Posts: 195
    There is a difference between those looking for certain things in a car at a certain price point and don't care about the cache of a hood ornament.

    I was looking for a sporty sedan with all the bells and whistles for $35k or less. The TL fit the bill perfectly, but the Camry did it for $3.5k less. I agree that it isn't a large percentage, but definitely something one should take into account if the TL satisfies your automotive desires.
  • billyperks1billyperks1 Posts: 151
    I think its like getting demoted from a SVP to VP-Acura owners who buys Camry.

    I started out with a 94 Camry then I stepped up to a 99 Mazda Millennia and right now I have the 03 TLS.

    I am looking to move into Lexus GS 350 when it comes out, the GS 300 does not have the punch I am looking for.

    I saw the Camry last Saturday at the NYC Auto show and I actually liked it, but the "keeping up with the Jones" in
    me will not go for the Camry.
  • fsowirlesfsowirles Posts: 195
    Exactly my point: You are in the group of the gotta have the badge cache. I don't care what others think of my car, so I went with the Camry. I don't need my car to be expensive to prove I can afford it. If that were the case, I would be driving an S65, beacuse I love the car..can afford the car....but choose to use that money for bigger and better things. I also choose to invest in appreciating assets rather than sink money (including paying interest) on a depreciating asset. To each his own.
  • faldocfaldoc Posts: 84
    Funny thing is I just traded my Lexus LS400 for a 2007 Camry XLE V6. I got tired of the big parts and service bills, and the amount of depreciation on the Lexus is staggering. I also wanted something with better mileage.

    I am thrilled with my Camry, even though I can afford a Mercedes I chose to be thrifty and I am proud of it. I don't even feel that I have moved down: more of a sideways move. The car is smooth, quiet, very powerful and well made. I did look at the Acuras, and Infinitis, BMW and Mercedes. Everything I like costs $50k and up. Got to thinking that nobody really sees me in the car, I am very comfortable driving the Camry, so why not? Camry has the room and power of the E class, or 5 series BMW, and all I do is drive highway. Why spend twice as much?

    Camry has got me 31 mpg. And it moves.
  • petomlinpetomlin Posts: 103
    LOL!!!

    funny stuff. :D
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    I guess there is a point in this discussion as many people cross-shop those vehicles. I think though that Camry is in the direct competition with Accord. TL IMO is a class higher, together and even more so with ES. Camry, again IMO, does not provide similar driving experience as an Accord not to mention TL. Toyota did a very good job on the interior of both ES and Camry, exterior stilling is also up, however it’s not even close to match Honda in driving experience, Camry and ES is still boring to drive. Increased power will defiantly help sales and might increase image, as many drivers more concerned with 0-60 numbers then any other performance characteristic. IMO Camry will defiantly step on the ES sales, as now it is the same car with a different badge.
    Bottom line is, if one enjoy driving and would like a luxury FWD vehicle, TL is the way to go. TL’s performance numbers are in the same league with smaller RWD G35 and IS, I doubt Camry is even close.
  • buyer777buyer777 Posts: 70
    I had the opportunity to test drive the SE V6 the other day. Thought it was fine, less firm than TL which may be a plus on poor roads. Interior is nice, 6 speed auto, 268 HP and mp3 aux beat TL. Nav looks same. TL has better "cockpit feel".

    I'd buy the SE if you could get it for $500 or so over Invoice, say $27,000, but MSRP was close to $30k, and they allotments are few so the dealer has leverage on price. 2 month wait for an order.
  • fsowirlesfsowirles Posts: 195
    Assumptions are bad things. The Camry in SE trim with the V6 is as good or better than the TL in 0-60 and slalom times. It is not boring to drive. I can only assume you have not experienced it first hand based upon your claims.
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    I have not driven SE trim, and it might be better then LE, however I highly doubt that it’s close to TL. Camry might be fester 0-60, but so as V-8 Impala. Like I said many people live by 0-60 numbers, not me. TL has a much better feel to it, in Camry you just for a ride.

    Assumptions are bad things??? So your following statement must be a fact not an assumption?? “The Camry in SE trim with the V6 is as good or better than the TL in 0-60 and slalom times.” Can you post a link or provide reference for this fact??
  • jls2jls2 Posts: 5
    I owned a TSX and for the most part, loved it. I had the sport package with ground effects kit all around, spoiler, fog lamps, chrome wheels, one great looking car. Problem is that it is just not powerful enough. So I really thought I would move up to the TL, and test drove a couple. Then I saw pics/specs/reviews of the new Camry and went to see it in person and had to have one. It looks great, has the power, very nice interior in the XLE. It is not quite as sporty feeling as the TL, but still very acceptable for a four door sedan since I am not looking for a true sports car ride or performance. In my opinion it does stand up to the TL now, but I can see why the TL fans would not want to admit it! Both great cars in my opinion, but especially for the money difference (approx $5k when comparably equipped) the 07 Camry V6 is a worthy competitor to the TL. And I do think people should drive them before forming an opinion on them on anything other than looks. Love my 07 XLE V6!
  • I agree on the badge thing, but I also know plenty of people who still associate the name "Acura" with Integras, and don't consider Acura to be at the same level as Lexus, BMW or Mercedes.

    That being said, I think the interior of the TL is made with materials of higher quality than that of the Camry. I like the Camry better overall though.
  • I drove the TL and the 07 Camry XLE back-to-back and I can tell you that even the XLE felt better balanced than the TL did. Yes, the TL has a stiffer suspension, but it feels "very" front heavy in comparison. The Camry is also a bit lighter which makes it feel a bit more nimble and more responsive to throttle changes.

    Bottom line, I felt more in control of the vehicle while driving the Camry.
  • fsowirlesfsowirles Posts: 195
    07 Camry (SE V6 performance numbers on page 81 of May R&T)

    The performance numbers are out for 2007 Camry SE V6, 6AT.
    1/4 mile: 14.5@99.9 mph (5/06 R&T test)
    The '07 Camry SE V6 did 0.83g and 63.6 mph.

    It was faster than '04 TL with 6MT
    1/4 mile: 14.8@96.6 mph (4/04 R&T test)
    The '04 Acura TL did 0.87g and 65.8 mph.

    You must agree that the SE is right there with a TL and until you drive it in that trim, you should withhold judgement. I don't live by numbers, I go by the feel of a car, being an Auto-X enthusiast. I have driven many, many cars of all class segments and the TL and Camry SE V6 have very similar feels. The weight balance of the TL is a little better, but steering response and body roll are dead even, IMHO.
  • fsowirlesfsowirles Posts: 195
    You drove an XLE. It is not supposed to be sporty...it is the luxo level and is floaty liek an Avalon. It should feel more like a Lincoln than a Porsche. Drive the SE, it is stiffer by design without being so stiffened that it is uncomfortable.
  • faldocfaldoc Posts: 84
    Although I looked at the sportier luxury cars, I really like the cruising softness of my Camry XLE. It can never be a slalom racer, it is not meant to carve the hillsides. It is a family car. It has more room especially in the rear than the TL. A TL is meant for a younger demographic, or families with smaller children. Camry is for older folks like myself. For cummutes of 1 hour, which I do each way every day, the Camry XLE is perfect.
  • I find it weird that you guys are able to discuss an Acura TL to a Toyota Camry!!??(Luxury car vs Family sedan???)Well in any case I would choose a TL hands down! The Camry is very bland, boring and yes I've test driven it and it was nice, but not as nice as the TL. Also, Camry XLE can go over the $30K mark which is entry-level luxury territory, and it aint no "Luxury car" what-so-ever, might as well buy an Avalon, now those are nice!

    Suave Tequila
  • fsowirlesfsowirles Posts: 195
    Which trim/engine did you drive? Was it a 2007? You are entitled to your opinion, but if you think there is not reason to discuss the two in comparison, then I question your open mindedness.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    I think the TL's styling is much more distinctive and exciting than the 07 Camry. I love Camrys, and the 07's stats are impressive, but its still a Camry, which is OK if you're into that look. We're comparing an 07 design to an 04 design, so when the TL (and Accord) gets it's redesign the bar will be raised and separate the 2 vehicles even more than they are now.
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    I’m not about to change your mind and I like Camry too, just for a different reason. It’s not as boring to drive as the old one but still boring. I will still try SE trim, but by looking at the numbers you posted it’s no match. I had no doubt that Camry is a bit faster as it has more power and it’s lighter, but look at the other stats you posted: 0.83g and 63.6 mph this is not in the same league with TL. I know .05 is a small number but it’s a huge difference in a real world and even average driver will feel it; and more then 2 sec slower. Again accept acceleration, all numbers you posted are not even in Accord’s territory. While typing I decided to check if Edmunds had any road test done for Camry, guess what I found? 2002 Premium Family Sedan Comparison Test, Toyota Camry SE V6, slalom 63.8MPH, which is even better then the new one. I know, the track must be different and so is the temperature, but still. The new Camry however has a much more power, and so if everything else is equal it should be faster. Does that make new Camry even softer then the old one? I’m confused.
    I do agree with you that you should go by what you feel, however in order to understand each vehicle you need to spend time in each; 1 hour test drive will not do it. That is why it is useful to look at the numbers, more information you have better your decision will be.
    Do not get me wrong those numbers are more then adequate for the average, family sedan, buyer; average buyer will probably not even look at those numbers. But let’s be true to ourselves, when it comes to handling and road feel TL is much better.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Well, here is the thing, consumers can cross-shop any two cars (or more) if they wanted to. Despite these two cars being cross-shopped by some, the majority of buyers would still cross-shop a Camry with Honda (Accord), Nissan (Altima), Hyundai (Sonata), and other midsize [maass-market] sedans; while the TL is mostly cross-shopped with the G35, IS, 3er, and other premium sports sedans.

    Camry was never meant to compete [directly] with the TL and it should not be. The SE trim and upgraded power do not translate into a sports sedan. Camrys across trim lines are still classified as family sedan last time I checked, and still the same after test driving the 07s.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I don't disagree with your premise but the interesting thing is that so many people throughout our Forums are doing just that - comparing the new Camry to the existing TL. While the two vehicles certainly do seem to be squarely in separate classes, there are many who are not seeing it that way since the '07 hit the streets.

    Interesting.
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    Hi Pat, I think it’s a good idea to compare vehicles from different classes, as many people shop at the price point and not the vehicle group.
    While we at it, can you set up another discussion IS250 vs. Accord Coupe. Similar price point and size, close performance; should make a good discussion.
  • ctlctl Posts: 123
    When you take a nicely designed/built FWD vehicle, with enough power and firmer suspension, you are standing there right next to the TL. "sports sedan" or "family sedan" are just marketing terms. This is not a knock to TL, it is a nice looking, well designed, "sports-image sedan". What it is not though is a "hard core" RWD like IS, BMW 3, G35, I think 2007 Camry SE V6 really exposes that.
  • dr_gdr_g Posts: 21
    Guess I'm not the only one that sees this as an odd comparison. I live in a city where ½ the kids in my high school class (93) drove Acura Integras (I hated that car back then - way over pimped out) and ½ the people on my street now own Camry's as their cheap family car. Having driven several 2006 Camry's to near limits of handling (LA traffic is a zoo and requires nerves of steel) I can say it gives out way before the TL does. I was looking at getting a G35 and IS350, but the G was too loud (sounded like their was no soundproofing) and the IS is just way overpriced. I ended up "settling" for a TL (still a huge upgrade from my Contour SE which I loved). To my surprise the TL is not the big-boat I thought it would be and handles very nicely, although as mentioned is front heavy. I'm trying to avoid the urge to mod it once break in is done.

    Not having driven the 2007 Camry I can't speak for it, but assuming it's in-line as a less Avalon it had no business running lanes of traffic in LA. Guess Toyota may be taking a stab at Accord with a sportier feel. One thing Camry always had going for it was a ride so smooth it was like driving a Lincoln Towncar (without the 5 foot trunk).

    As far as the the AUX MP3 comment on the Camry - I was bummed when I originally found out there was no easy way to add in aux support to the TL's audio system without spending $200 plus. Then I found out you can write 2 channel audio (same quality as MP3s) onto DVDs and get around 100 songs on a DVD - so with the changer who needs an IPOD. I have about 520 songs on my TL right now - and with steering mounted controls it's better than any IPOD adapter. TL wins the audio contest hands down - unless you want to try to play audio off your Palm or something, then you still need a ¼ jack somewhere.

    I wonder if Bluetooth on the Treo 700 can play audio through the TL's audio system - now that would rock - no cables and can listen to medical lectures (ok, fun for me I guess).
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    These other cars you mention are priced a LOT MORE than a TL! Who wants 'hard core' anyway? The Camry exposes what? The TL gives you great performance, handling, 4 doors, and awesome electronics in a class leading safety cage for about $31K. And in 2008 Acura will raise the bar again with the redesign.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    about that "Class leading safety cage" of the TL is that, according to the IIHS, cars like the '06 Lexus IS, '05- '06 Mitsubishi Galant, '06 Jetta and Passat, and '06 Subaru Legacy all achieve better evaluations for structrual integrity in the very demanding Side Impact test.

    The TL, like most vehicles, earns an 'Acceptable' for Structure/Safety Cage, while those mentioned above, earn 'Good'.

    'Class leading safety cage' seems erroneous in reference to the TL.

    ~alpha
  • fsowirlesfsowirles Posts: 195
    At TL w/NAV is going to MSRP at $35k. Keep the 2008 out of this as we are comparing current cars. Heck, the 200X Ford Festiva is going to run circles around all of these cars....don't believe me, exactly. Silly, huh?

    Seriously, the NEW Camry in SE trim with the V6 and NAV is on paper and in feel very similar to the TL and comparably equipped for $31k MSRP. No Toyota isn't targeting the TL, no it isn't in the same class segment, but if you are looking for a sporty family sedan with reliability, tech options, and good resale for around $30k, then both of these cars should be looked at.

    As for the comment of the Camry not even coming close, I implore you to withhold that comment until you have driven a SE V6. It is not a 'just below the Avalon' car as is the XLE.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    You can create that discussion - sounds interesting. Go to this link Comparisons and use the Add A Discussion link just above the discussion list on the right. Drop me an email if you have any trouble.
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