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Addressing the Fit's shortcomings

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Comments

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    You are absolutely right. Let's keep the "vs." discussions out of this.

    backy, "Addressing the Fit's shortcomings" #100, 12 May 2006 12:00 pm
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    The pricing of the Fit is a shortcoming. Fit pricing is too high.

    Has not changed since May 12th.

    $$$$ Re: Addressing the Fit's shortcomings [backy] by moparbad

    Unfortunately, Accord market pricing is much too comparable to Fit market pricing. :surprise:
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Fit pricing is too high? Compared to other cars in its class, with comparable equipment, the Fit is priced pretty well.

    The Fit is an all-new model in the U.S. with years of pent-up demand and a small supply. What did you expect, that dealers would give them away? The Accord is a older design and is readily available, with hundreds of thousands of units sold each year. The Accord VP is the least popular Accord model because it lacks features people expect in a mid-sized family car. And you wonder why the Fit sells for MSRP and the Accord VP sells at a large discount? I don't.

    As for the Accord, let me know where I can get an Accord with the cargo-hauling versatility of the Fit, or its fuel economy, or its handling. I guess we could say those are the Accord's shortcomings, in comparison to the Fit.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    I posted the fact a couple of weeks ago that the VP is not identical, but very simmilar to the level of trim in the Civic LX. It's definately a small notch above the Fit, with map lights, adjustable seats, telescoping steering wheel, armrest, dual mirrors on the visors, much better A/C, and so on...

    Plus, tons more power. It's a way bigger engine. The manual transmission is superb, and it gets about 30mpg in mixed driving. Yeah, not what the Fit or Civic get, but it's a very very nice car. For roughly the same price.

    It can be had for ~16,000 all over the U.S. All it's missing are two rear speakers, but those are pre-wired - just buy some Kenwood 6*9s and screw in in 2 minutes.

    So, yes, the Fit is very overpriced. It's even more than the Civic Value Package(which they don't sell in the U.S., but isn't hard to figure out and convert from Euros) True, the Sport has a the body kit and fog lights and alloys, but 90% of people I know don't care about alloys or fog lights - they are minor things compared to a better engine and more space.
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Posts: 678
    "So, yes, the Fit is very overpriced."
    No, the Fit is not overpriced. The price might be high to you, but it is not overpriced. In a few months, when supply meets (or exceeds) demand, the price will be adjusted accordingly with dealers offering prices less than MSRP, etc. If it was overpriced, people wouldn't be buying them left and right, and they would be sitting on dealer lots. Dealers are actually charging premiums on this car. If it was overpriced, they couldn't do that and sell the cars.

    "It's even more than the Civic Value Package(which they don't sell in the U.S., but isn't hard to figure out and convert from Euros)"
    What are you talking about?
    Two things...
    1. Name a Euro-zone country (actually name any European country) that has a Civic Value Package.
    2. You can't even compare prices between countries, let alone continents. There are destination fees, import taxes, registration, everything.
    A Jazz Sport 5MT in Germany costs the equivalent of US$21,700 and that's with only the L13A engine. Add $1000 for CVT.
    The base Civic in Germany costs over US$20,000. And that's for a car with a 1.4L engine that does 0-62mph in 14.6 seconds. Doesn't even have wheel covers...just the bare steel wheels. To me, $20k for a base Civic with the smallest engine and a manual transmission is quite a bit above the price of a US-market Fit Sport 5AT.
    The top end Civic (2.2i-CTDi Executive) is over $30,000. Do I need to go on?
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    How do you define overpriced?
    What does overpriced mean to you?

    Overpriced = too costly for the value.
    Simply because people are willing to pay a a given price does not mean that the item is not overpriced.

    VW New Beetle sold for MSRP and higher. Chrysler PT Cruiser sold for MSRP and higher. Pontiac Fiero sold for MSRP and higher.

    There is a saying "a fool and his money are soon parted".
  • johnnyvjjohnnyvj Posts: 112
    *Waits patiently for the Accord Special Pricing sales incentive to expire on 5/31 so that this thread can become un-hijacked*
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    A product that is priced too high for the value received will not sell very well. OTOH, the Fit is selling extremely well, indicating that it is priced appropriately for the market, at this time.

    A better example of "overpriced" is the case of the 2006 Accent. When it was introduced, its price was $15,400 for a model with power package and automatic--in other words, with the kind of equipment many people want. Hyundai dealers complained to HMA that the price was too high--it's even higher than the price of the base Fit! The cars were not selling well. HMA agreed and put a $1000 rebate on the car. If and when the sales of the Fit drop off and cars start sitting in dealer lots, you will see prices drop. Until then, it is priced right for current market conditions. Is it priced higher than I would like it to be? Sure! I'd like to buy a base Fit AT for $12,000. But that is an unrealistic expectation based on Honda's costs and market dynamics.
  • johnnyvjjohnnyvj Posts: 112
    Hey guys, lookee... a brand-new shiny Accord vs Fit thread, created just for YOU! :D

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f0ca5ae/0

    :shades:
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Posts: 678
    "How do you define overpriced?
    What does overpriced mean to you?"


    The market determines whether something is overpriced or not. In that sense, it is not a subjective term like "the price is too high".

    You might think the price of product X is too high at $1000. However, if demand greatly exceeds supply, a price of $1500 could be appropriate. When demand decreases, $1500 might indeed be considered overpriced and the price should drop.

    That being said, the Fit may be considered (by the market) to be overpriced in a few months. That will be at the point where demand drops to a level that the price will need to drop accordingly. However, demand is high across the US now, and that influences the price. You might think the price is too high and that's your opinion, but that doesn't mean it is actually overpriced...the market decides that.

    There is a saying "a fool and his money are soon parted".
    ...and there is also a saying called "supply and demand".
  • johnnyvjjohnnyvj Posts: 112
    Dead pedal:
    -Won't happen on this generation. It's part of the design of the car, and it is this way on all Fit/Jazzes worldwide. It seems to be the lack of space from the wheel well. From what I have seen on cars, pedals spaced close together are often caused by a short-nose design in which the wheel well intrudes into the passenger space.

    Seat height adjustment:
    -Standard in certain other markets, not sure why they don't have it in North America

    Center armrest:
    -Accessory in certain other markets, not sure why they don't have it in North America. However, unlike the seat-height adjustment issue, this one probably is not that difficult to resolve. Aftermarket ones are available, or if you try hard enough you can probably get one from Honda in a European country.


    Dead pedal- That is a shame. But how hard is it to add a four-inch wide plank of rubber-coated metal to the left side of the foot well? It can go above the weird little hump if need be. C'mon Honda, there's simply no good excuse for this.

    Height adjustment- Another very avoidable shame. C'mon Honda, so much is good with this car, why ruin some of the Fit-ty goodness with a silly oversight like this? :(

    Center armrest- Yeah, I'm hearing that you can import the Jazz center armrest. If true, I'll definitely be doing that if I get a Fit. Again though, have to wonder why Honda missed the ball on this one too.

    So annoying to have such a good car marred by some pretty easily avoidable mistakes. :sick:
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    And it looks odd too!
  • upland22upland22 Posts: 3
    I agree that a deadpedal would be nice, but I'd gladly trade the lack of a deadpedal for a little more room between the clutch and brake pedals! These pedals are too close together.
  • sfinstersfinster Posts: 17
    My shifter seems a little clickier, too. I'm at about 2000 miles. I figured I would mention it the first time I got the oil changed. However, my oil minder still says 80% so that could be a while! I'm just trying to pay attention to whether it's getting worse or not.
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Posts: 678
    I've noticed the same thing regarding the shifter, but I was assuming it was just the design. I've gotten used to the notchy feeling though, so its not really an issue for me.
    The one issue that I will bring up at oil change is a light clicking (more like a light clacking) sound I hear from the engine. It occurs only at a very specific time: when I am starting out in first gear and I let the clutch out while moderatly accelerating. Never hear it again after that...until I have to start off from a full stop.
    The car runs perfectly fine, but it's just the odd sound. Maybe I'm just paranoid? :blush:
    Anyone with the 5MT notice this too?
  • I have almost 1,000 miles. I have no problems with the MT shifter. It shifts like a manual. Smooth and easy. I hear nothing from the engine except the sewing machine sound of the 1500 CC engine!
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Posts: 678
    Yeah, my engine is perfectly quiet and smooth (apart from that little noise I mentioned...which you really have to listen for). In fact, a few times I thought I stalled the car because it's so smooth at idle. :)
  • jrlncjrlnc Posts: 48
    I also have the Fit m/t (Sport). This morning I rolled down both windows and turned off the fan and radio. I really listened for it when I was starting out. I didn't hear a thing out of the ordinary. The shifter is actually seeming even smoother to me now that I've been driving it for a while. (This is my 4th m/t vehicle, but my last car was an automatic so I'm a bit out of practice.)

    Do you hear it when the windows are rolled up? Is it a high-frequency tapping sound? Repetitive or occasional only?
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Posts: 678
    Hi jrlnc,

    Thanks for your response. The sound is easier to hear when the windows are up since much of the outside noise is filtered out. It is not a terribly loud noise and having the fan noise on 2 or higher, having the A/C on, or especially having the radio on will drown it out.

    The sound is occasional, but still it is the first time I have heard it in the cars I have driven, so I was somewhat concerned. Still, it's not that big of a deal that can't wait until oil change. Relatively high frequency...I am wondering if a slight valve adjustment is in order. However, if the dealership service department determines it will not affect reliability, engine longevity, and driveability, I won't worry about it. Performance is not affected.

    The sound only happens when starting from full stop when I am releasing the clutch into first gear. Even then it doesn't happen all the time. It seems like it occurs around 1500-2000 rpm. If I fully release the clutch before or above that engine speed it doesn't make the noise. The sound does not happen when I rev the engine while the car is in neutral or the clutch is fully depressed...or any other time for that matter. The conditions that I am describing seem very exact, but combining my habit of full clutch release at start-up around 1500 rpm on this car, combined with lots of stop/go driving in traffic, it does happen enough that I am interested to find the source of the sound.

    All this said, this is one of the smoothest engine and transmission I have ever owned (or driven for a long period of time). Granted I haven't driven many luxury cars ;) , but this car really is fun to drive!
This discussion has been closed.