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2007 Hyundai Accent v 2007 Toyota Yaris Lift

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Comments

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    From CR's preview of their economy-car comparo, due out in a couple of days:

    While we haven't yet completed our formal fuel-economy tests, we expect the Yaris to average notably less than the 400-pounds-lighter Echo that returned 38 mpg.

    http://tinyurl.com/yfnxw9
  • boris13boris13 Member Posts: 80
    Nearly every posting of real-world MPG that I've seen (on various Internet forums; 50+ responses) indicate that the 5-speed liftback Yaris gets about 32-34 in the city and 38-42 in highway driving.

    Good enough for me.
  • forrestshalomforrestshalom Member Posts: 26
    ok, so does anyone know what the maximum recomended shift speeds are for each gear in the yaris?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I expect CR's overall number will be lower. They seem to get pretty low numbers in their city driving (their office is near NYC), but good numbers on their highway segment.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    What exactly is a "maximum recomended shift speed"? If you mean max speed to achieve the best fuel economy, it will vary by region (hilly or flat?) and other factors as well. But the owner's manual has recommended shift speeds if you wish to maximize fuel economy.

    I don't short-shift my car to get the mileage I do, but I also don't bounce off the rev limiter all the time. This car has a small engine, so even at WOT it's not like it's guzzling gas.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • forrestshalomforrestshalom Member Posts: 26
    okay, what i mean is: what is the maximum allowable shift speed for each gear according to the owner's manual? thanks!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    CR recently published a comparo of the Accent, Fit, Rio, Versa, and Yaris, and tossed in a Focus ZX3 for good measure. They tested both AT and MT cars. For AT cars, the Accent GLS bested the Yaris sedan in overall score 62 to 49. For MT cars, Accent GS vs. Yaris hatchback, the scores were 52 to 36. Neither car was recommended by CR. The Accent scored high enough, but CR will wait until the redesigned Accent establishes its reliability record. The Yaris did not score high enough in CR's tests to be recommended regardless of reliability.

    Because several other models were tested, I put my overall impressions on the comparo here:

    backy, "Low End Sedans (under $16k)" #3704, 6 Nov 2006 9:17 am
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    Right, and once the Accent establishes it's reliability record, THEN you can state things like "The Accent scored high enough".

    The contention has never been that the Yaris Hatch was the class leader, just that it was a better value compared to the Accent Hatch.

    You are still faced (when comparing the two vehicles) with the Yaris having better predicted reliability, better resale, and better gas-mileage...

    No Yaris owner has ever denied the Accent having a few more standard features. The argument has always been about what most people look for in an entry-level, inexpensive, economy car.

    A 3 day test from CR doesn't prove anything long term. In 3 years, even the FIT may experience reliability issues.

    Honda's history is that it probably won't.

    Hyundai's history is that the Accent probably will...

    T
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The Yaris is the better value? That means that Toyota's traditionally strong reliability and resale value, and the Yaris' excellent fuel economy, would outweigh its deficiencies in other areas, such as (according to CR's tests): emergency handling, braking (especially w/o ABS, which is hard to find), driving position, front-seat comfort, controls and displays, trunk (for the hatchbacks), NHTSA crash test results, standard safety equipment, and optional safety equipment. Are you saying these things are not important to most people who are looking for an economy car?

    Also, you make it sound as if the reliability record of the previous-gen Accent was terrible, which it wasn't. The fact is that neither the Yaris nor the Accent have a reliability history--they are both new designs. Based on recent history, e.g. 2007 Camry, Toyota's new models are not immune to problems.

    Additionally, the Accent sedan that CR tested cost $1313 less than the Yaris sedan, comparably equipped (except it isn't clear that the Yaris had the optional side bags/curtains). Also, at the time CR bought the Accent there was probably a $1000 rebate on it. That is a big difference in up-front cost, which is only partially offset by the differences in fuel economy and resale value (assuming the Yaris holds its value).
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    So by your logic, is the Honda a better value? How about the others that finished ahead of the Accent?

    We all get that you are hopelessly biased towards Hyundai, but how about some CRITERIA regarding value?

    I'll offer some of mine again:

    1) Reliability. Hyundai has a shaky at BEST track record when it comes to reliability. I don't care about "America's Best Warranty", I'd just rather not break down in the first place.

    2) Gas mileage. In a sub-compact, economy car, gas mileage is usually #1 or #2 on the average person's list.

    3) Residual $$$. I know Toyota will hold it's value. No matter how you crunch your numbers, Hyundai's don't. ALG just published a lot of new 2007 residuals and guess who was again amongst the WORST? Yup... Hyundai.

    Subjective items like seat position and controls and displays have little if anyhting to do with value outside of the INDIVIDUAL that is buying the car.

    For example, I found the seat material in the Yaris to be FAR more comfortable than the Accent. I felt the same way about the driving position.

    So there ya go, I've defined value (at least for me), yet again...

    Can you???

    T

    PS: I have 4 Yari with ABS on the ground ready for immediate delivery. Please send me some people who think it's hard to find one with it, it'll be an easy sale :)
  • boris13boris13 Member Posts: 80
    Did you drive the Yaris yourself? I thought it drove and handled extremely well for a low priced car. Engine had plenty of power. Front-seat comfort and leg room was great (I'm 5'10") and controls/displays were easy to use (I'll just have to disagree with the CR "experts" there). You get nearly 25 cubic feet of usable space with the rear seat folded down (I'm talking about the hatchback... I'm not interested in the sedan); I think that's very decent for the size of the car.

    And the features that CR wanted are not that hard to find for the serious buyer. If the exact car that you want doesn't exist on a Toyota dealer's lot, you simply sit down and order your car to your own taste (in other words, load it up with options) and wait for it to come in.

    This is what I'm doing.

    For example, I'm upgrading my Yaris' handling with the accessory TRD sport shock absorber kit. Optional ABS and side curtain airbags will increase the safety factor and my peace of mind. I'll get the 60/40 fold-flat rear seat with the power package. Those items should cover most of CR's "deficiencies." Evidently CR just wants more of the currently optional items as standard equipment.

    Even with all the options I'm ordering, I should still be under $15,500 MSRP -- not bad for a new car that includes a warranty and Toyota build quality... not to mention an average of 35-40 mpg.

    I fail to see how the Yaris hatchback isn't just a good, but a great, value.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I have driven the Yaris sedan, twice. I checked 3 times for a Yaris hatch to drive but didn't find any, so I gave up. I thought the handling of the sedan was fine for my needs (I don't carve canyons here in the Midwest). The engine power was adequate for around-town driving. Driving position was pretty poor for me, I'm 5'10" also. I needed more thigh support and couldn't get it (Accent shines there, for me). The gauges were hard to read at a glance because they were to the side and too small (this is mentioned in multiple reviews, btw).

    As for getting features that I want, I asked a Toyota Master Sales Rep about availability of a Yaris with side bags and ABS, and at the time he told me to forget it, they were not being sent to the Chicago Region. That may have changed now, but at the time that was the picture.

    Note that the Yaris sedan had ABS and the 60/40 rear seat and it still finished last in the test group.

    You'll get a new-car warranty with your Yaris, true--a pretty short one though compared to some other choices that CR ranked higher.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I think the Fit (especially in base form) is a better value than the Yaris, yes. And I think you agree with me on that one, right? Weren't you all set to buy a Fit but didn't because you couldn't find one without a dealer markup?

    I've already posted my definition of value in a different discussion. When I did, you mocked the way I defined value and said that my requirements are not "real-world". So I'm not going to waste my time with that exercise again.

    Subjective items like seat position and controls and displays have little if anyhting to do with value outside of the INDIVIDUAL that is buying the car.

    Of course the definition of value is relative to the individual who is buying the car! What else could it be?? Should I buy a car because it meets someone else's definition of value?

    I am glad to see that ABS is becoming more widely available on the Yaris. Are these sedans or liftbacks, and do they have manual (which I'd prefer on the Yaris) or automatic trannies and do they all have the side airbag package (one of my requirements)?
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    "I think the Fit (especially in base form) is a better value than the Yaris, yes. And I think you agree with me on that one, right? Weren't you all set to buy a Fit but didn't because you couldn't find one without a dealer markup?"

    I didn't ask if you thought it was a better value than the Yaris. I asked you if, because you seem to think the criteria CR used in this particular comparison were worth noting, that because the ACCENT finished below certain cars if THEY were a better value?

    My hunch is, you still think the Accent is the best value, despite being rated below several others as well.

    "I've already posted my definition of value in a different discussion. When I did, you mocked the way I defined value and said that my requirements are not "real-world". So I'm not going to waste my time with that exercise again."

    Oh really? Please link me to where you defined value? All I seem to remember was a system of "blockers" and "pushers" you have. That's not a definition, that's a subjective way to justify whatever you want.

    It's a free country, and you are free to have whatever bias you want. Just please don't parade around pretending you don't, especially when it's blatently obvious.

    "I am glad to see that ABS is becoming more widely available on the Yaris. Are these sedans or liftbacks, and do they have manual (which I'd prefer on the Yaris) or automatic trannies and do they all have the side airbag package (one of my requirements)?"

    I have one (a Liftback). There are three more inbound to our region. It doesn't matter though, because even if it met every "requirement" you could think of, inevitably by virtue of it not being a Hyundai, you could find a "blocker".

    And that's perfectly ok, for you

    My definition of value focuses more on the big picture of the car, rather than little gripes a magazine may have about ABS or razor-sharp handling in an economy car.

    The Yaris is a better value, based upon broad scope items like:

    Gas Mileage
    Resale Value
    Reliability (Predicted or not)
    Build Quality
    Brand
    Transmission (at least in the manual, as you and I prefer)

    I'm thrilled with my car. Clearly I saw enough value to pull the trigger. I guess you're still "considering" the value of the Accent...

    T
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    $15,500 for the Yaris??? For that you can get a Fit Sport with a 5spd manual, but I realize this is Yaris vs Accent.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I didn't ask if you thought it [the Fit] was a better value than the Yaris.

    Sure you did:

    So by your logic, is the Honda a better value?

    Now, if you want to continue to play your games of making intentionally vague posts so you can deny them later, go ahead, but I'm not going to play.

    That system of "blockers" and "pushers" is the system I use to define my requirements for buying a car (or any major purchase), and the car that best meets those requirements at lowest cost is the best value for me. Is that clear enough for you? I can't help it if you can't understand a fairly simple concept of mandatory requirements and nice-to-have requirements. I could state those requirements again, but all you would say is what you said before: they aren't normal requirements.

    Of course I have biases. Don't you? I have a bias towards cars that meet my needs better than others. One thing that I don't have is a loyalty or preference for a particular car company because I work for it.

    You have just one Yaris (liftback) on the ground with ABS now? A few posts ago, late yesterday, you said you had four Yarii on the ground with ABS. Those Yarii with ABS sure sell fast, don't they? I guess that shows how popular ABS is. And all of these cars, both on the ground and inbound, have side bags/curtains? How about transmission choices?

    I am glad you are thrilled with your choice of the Yaris. I am still considering the value of the Accent and other cars because it's not yet time for me to buy my next car. I don't just go out and drop $12-15k on a new car for the heck of it.
  • boris13boris13 Member Posts: 80
    I don't like the looks of the Fit at all, thank you (I don't care for four-door body styles, period; however, the Fit is particularly homely). I also don't like the fact that it's an old design (dating from 2001 in Japan and '02 in Europe) and will be replaced by an all-new model in about a year and a half. So, it's nearly obsolete on introduction. Plus, the gas tank in the Fit is directly under the front seats... that would make me a bit nervous, riding on top of 10 gallons of (flammable) fuel.

    As you pointed out, for the same price as a Fit Sport, I can get a well-equipped version of a car I REALLY like -- the Yaris liftback.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    It's true the the versatility of 2 doors is superior to 4, 9CuFt of cargo space is much better then 21CuFt, center mounted instruments are more practical than gauges in front of you, having a gas tank in the center of a vehicle is much more dangerous that having it closer towards the rear, and the fact that every review I've ever seen puts the Fit well on top of the Yaris is just a bunch of Honda bias...you're right, the Yaris is much better.
  • boris13boris13 Member Posts: 80
    I was telling you why I prefer the Yaris. I wasn't saying it's better, strictly going by empirical data. It's better for me, that's all. We all have our preferences, right?

    For example, the center-mounted gauges don't bother me a bit. It was easy to adjust. (And the Yaris hatch IS versatile -- I have nearly 25 cu. ft. of cargo space in the Yaris hatch with the rear seat folded down. Yeah, I know, 40+ in the Honda. So what... I still don't care for the Fit.)

    I like the size, the fuel economy, the style, and the drivability of the Yaris. Build quality of the Yaris and Fit is comparable; in other words, high. Pricing with both cars loaded is about the same as well. It comes down to what you want and what you like.

    I'm sure that the Fit is a very good vehicle overall, and hopefully the next-generation Fit will be styled much better.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    I guess if exterior styling is the reason for picking a Yaris, then there's no agrument against that. But to me, it's sort of like buying a car because it has a better shade of green than an other car. Style is 100% subjective. Again it's like discussing the merits of one color over another. But then I guess a lot of people buy all sorts of things for superficial reasons and leave those of us who look more objectively just scratching our heads. ;)
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Actually, I was a bit harsh in my last post. No matter how practical is the ScionXB, that car is way to ugly for me, and that's a purely subjective statement!
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    "Of course I have biases. Don't you? I have a bias towards cars that meet my needs better than others. One thing that I don't have is a loyalty or preference for a particular car company because I work for it."

    Right, loyalty that extends so far as to say I'd be driving something else were it not for dealers being a little outrageous on "economy" cars.

    Your job as a Hyundai representitive (since you refuse to share your official title), is clearly influencing you as well ;)

    "You have just one Yaris (liftback) on the ground with ABS now? A few posts ago, late yesterday, you said you had four Yarii on the ground with ABS. Those Yarii with ABS sure sell fast, don't they? I guess that shows how popular ABS is. And all of these cars, both on the ground and inbound, have side bags/curtains? How about transmission choices?"

    I didn't say that. I said I had 4 Yaris's on the ground with ABS. I still do. Re-read what I wrote before you mis-quote me. You asked if I had your preferred transmission. I have one.

    I'm not sure what game you're trying to play here, but availability of a HOT product is always going to be a slight issue. We can GET it for you, but it may take a little patience (something you seem to have a lot of, what with all your "considering").

    Look, I'm not trying to change your mind. I realize that is extremely futile with someone who won't define something as simple as "value". But I also won't allow you to trumpet the merits of a car that is inferior in the LARGEST respects people look for when buying an economy car (with the possible exception of standard safety features... something a LOT of Yaris owners, myself included, don't find a "blocker", but you can get now if you want).

    We can talk about the inches of interior space, driving position, the instrument cluster, whatever...

    But in the end, the Yaris has the BIG value items covered:

    Gas Mileage
    Reliability
    Resale
    Build Quality
    Etc...

    The Hyundai has more standard features, but looking at even the recent past, is a shaky foundation to hope for good "value" (your personal experience aside).

    The Accent has perpetually been (along with the Rio), the WORST car at holding it's value (based upon ALG residual value).

    Ever stop and wonder why??? Cars don't depreciate for simply no reason at all. They either are troublesome, undesireable, overproduced, or a combination of the 3.

    IF, in a few years you can prove otherwise, you may have a leg to stand on.

    T

    PS: Still no answer as to whether the cars that ranked ahead of the Accent in CR are better "values" either eh???
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    PS: Still no answer as to whether the cars that ranked ahead of the Accent in CR are better "values" either eh???

    You didn't ask that specific question before, but in terms of the hatchbacks, I think the Accent is a better value than the pricier (when comparably equipped) Rio5, although people who need five doors may disagree. I think the Versa S is a lot of car for the money, but it doesn't press enough of my buttons for me to consider it a better value than the Accent. The xB is dead. The Focus ZX3 is much pricier than the Accent SE when comparably equipped with critical features like ABS (and I don't think curtain airbags are even available on the Focus), so I consider the Accent a better value. And as I stated earlier, I think the Fit is a great value. I think the base Fit is a better value than Accent when both are at MSRP. It's a tougher question if the Fit stays at MSRP (or above) and if there's big discounts and rebates on the Accent.

    Here's a question for you: if I am such a "Hyundai representative" because I happen to prefer the Accent over the Yaris, then what do you call the folks at CR who ranked the Accent sedan 13 points higher than the Yaris sedan (even though the Yaris cost over $1300 more), and the Accent GS hatch 16 points higher than the Yaris hatch (albeit the Accent lists for a whopping $176 more even though the Yaris didn't come with side airbags, 60/40 seat, power windows/locks/mirrors, tachometer, seat height adjuster etc.). Are they biased against Toyota and for Hyundai? Did they rate the cars on criteria that don't apply to "normal" buyers? Don't they understand that VALUE is all about things like ALG residual values, a long history of reliability for the brand, and a few more mpg, and NOT about everything else that they considered in their tests? Why would they even look at all those other aspects of the cars in their tests when, according to you, these things are not the largest respects that buyers of these cars consider? Don't they get it?? I mean, how many years have they been doing these tests--about 40?

    Maybe this is why they rated the Accent over the Yaris by such a big margin:

    Gas Mileage - Accent "good", Yaris "excellent"
    Reliability - "lack data"
    Resale - actual cash out of pocket in depreciation from sale price after 5 years about the same (refer to my earlier analysis on that subject)
    Build Quality - Equal. Yep. If you don't believe me, look at CR's assessment of fit and finish and also read other third-party reviews praising the build quality of the Accent.

    Then read the reviews of the Accent and Yaris in the CR report, look at the little dots, and see how they stack up in the other areas not mentioned directly above. It should be clear why CR assigned the points as they did.

    I know why you are seeing more Yarii with ABS now: Toyota has include ABS in the two "power packages", one of which I expect would be on most Yarii. Interestingly, this is the same tactic Hyundai took with ABS on the 2007 Accent sedan. Except side bags/curtains are standard on the Accent.

    So here's one more question (multi-part), a variation of one I've asked several times but you have chosen not to answer. I will be as clear as I can about it. I ask that you be as clear as you can in your response, to avoid any misunderstandings: How many Yarii do you have on the ground at your dealership right now that have both ABS and side bags/curtains? How many Yarii do you have coming in in the next month with ABS and side airbags/curtains? How many Yarii are there in your entire region (please specify which region). on dealer lots today, that have both ABS and side bags/curtains? (I'm assuming this info is easy for you to look up on the Web, if not then the details on just your dealership are fine.)
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    "So here's one more question (multi-part), a variation of one I've asked several times but you have chosen not to answer. "I will be as clear as I can about it. I ask that you be as clear as you can in your response, to avoid any misunderstandings: How many Yarii do you have on the ground at your dealership right now that have both ABS and side bags/curtains? How many Yarii do you have coming in in the next month with ABS and side airbags/curtains? How many Yarii are there in your entire region (please specify which region). on dealer lots today, that have both ABS and side bags/curtains? (I'm assuming this info is easy for you to look up on the Web, if not then the details on just your dealership are fine.)"

    And I will be clear... again.

    I have 4 on the ground. There are about 12 inbound that I can see in our region due within the next 3 weeks.

    I don't believe you on build quality. I think I've made that quite clear. The Hyundai may hold up well over the span of a 3 day test, but the REAL lacking "known value" in this whole discussion is the most important one of all when comparing the two vehicles... how well will these "tests" hold up over time??? So I'd think any buyer "considering" an Accent would have to ask themselves a couple questions:

    1) Do you trust that Hyundai has overcome being the laughing stock of the industry? That they have genuinely changed reliability/quality issues that, even as recent as 3 years ago, caused them to depreciate faster than Enron stock did (or at least the worst (fastest) in the industry)?

    2) How do you define "value"? Is it in the features? Or in intrinsic things like reliability (even predicted), gas-mileage, and resale?

    The reason why I asked the question about whether or not you find the vehicles CR ranked AHEAD of the Accent to be better values is quite obvious:

    You don't. All the hubbub you made about the article, and yet you yourself find it seriously flawed...

    So do I. Which is why I don't go around forums linking people to my "thoughts" about it (thereby implying I find validity in it).

    To insinuate that I didn't do my homework before I purchased is not only wrong, but as silly as your "consideration" of the Accent for how many months???

    It must be something unique to the Hyundai folk I suppose, but I can certainly understand not wanting to rush into buying one :P.

    T
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    OK, so then you have four Yarii on the ground at your dealership with ABS and side bags--that's great! But only 12 in your entire region inbound in the next 3 weeks?? How many dealerships are in your region? It looks like ABS and side bags will still be very hard to find on a Yaris for people like me looking for those safety features.

    Here's a few third-party (i.e. people who aren't on the payroll of Hyundai, or Toyota for that matter) comments on the Accent's build quality:

    Lots of features, solid quality.
    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=117349

    At least the build quality seems excellent, with no squeaks or rattles, and the Accent is very well equipped.
    http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/30082006/45/hyundai-accent-crdi-3dr-0.html

    Consumer Guide "Best Buy". Pros: Fuel economy, Maneuverability, Build quality.

    http://autos.yahoo.com/hyundai_accent_gs_3_door-review_article/?source=cg

    It all fits very neatly, however, and build quality overall is impressive.
    http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=754&fArticleId=3343994

    As a matter of fact, this little car pushed everything we knew about cheap cars right off the shelf and into the trash can. This is what to think about the inexpensive Accent SE: It's solid, eager, nicely equipped, cute, practical, and pretty sporty. ... The Accent SE is screwed together so solidly that during the hundreds of miles we accumulated that we couldn't coax (or beat) a rattle out of it. Doors close with a solid sound, and the exterior fit and finish easily meet the standards of the class.
    http://www.thecarconnection.com/Vehicle_Reviews/Sedans_Coupes_and_Hatchbacks/200- 7_Hyundai_Accent.S180.A10988.html
    The company has put a reputation for shoddy quality behind it...

    Quality? You can find it in the fabrics, plastics and around the engine bay. ... I never thought that I would be saying this, but the Accent really does feel like a quality machine, and it's something the competition probably wasn't expecting. Poke your nose in that engine bay, and you'll find that there's weather-stripping all around to keep dust and dirt out, a jacket to insulate the battery so that it stays warm in the winter, and no wiring left exposed to the elements. Even the seams where metal meets metal around the bay are properly joined, a sign of true quality. You can't find these things in a Yaris, I'm told, and sure enough, under the nose of a Yaris, these things weren't there. Granted, I wouldn't blame you for being a skeptic; such details need to be pointed out, or you go through life not taking notice.
    http://www.carpages.ca/go/roadtest/2007_hyundai_accent_3door_hatchback_road_test- .aspx

    There's more if you still don't believe me.

    Do you trust that Hyundai has overcome being the laughing stock of the industry?

    I do, but you don't respect anything I think so how about a third-party opinion:

    The company has put a reputation for shoddy quality behind it, and has been leaping up the ranks in measures like the Initial Quality Survey by J. D. Power & Associates.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/10/automobiles/autoreviews/10BLOCK.html?ex=131554- 0800&en=219859a914a4acab&ei=5118&partner=rssaol&emc=rss (Free access through Nov. 12)

    How do you define "value"? Is it in the features? Or in intrinsic things like reliability (even predicted), gas-mileage, and resale?

    What a hoot. A feature of a car such as a fuel-efficient powertrain is "intrinsic", but a feature of a car such as a widely-adjustable, comfortable driving position or complete, clear gauges is somehow relegated to lesser importance. Once you get it through your head that every buyer has a different set of requirements that, for them, define "value", you'll understand why the folks at CR rated the Accent far above the Yaris and maybe you'll be a better car salesperson.

    The reason why I asked the question about whether or not you find the vehicles CR ranked AHEAD of the Accent to be better values is quite obvious: You don't.

    I thought I was quite clear that I consider the base Fit a better value at MSRP than the Accent. Note that of the hatchbacks CR has tested, the Accent is only one point behind the Versa S and two points behind the Rio5. The xB is dead and the Focus that was tested is sorely lacking in equipment--that was the only reason it made the group on price. A difference of a couple of points is basically a toss-up, and a buyer can choose based on which car meets their specific requirements best, at the best price.

    I am not insinuating anything about YOUR choice of a car. You chose the car that you felt met your requirements the best. That's great, for you. But consider that not everyone has the same requirements, and definition of value, as you do.
  • spaminajamspaminajam Member Posts: 13
    FINALLY! Some common sense.....Great job with great links & documentation.
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    With regards to the Accent, Car and Driver counts as one of their "lows":

    "still carries a Hyundai badge on the nose".

    If you don't believe that the stigma still exists, you simply are ignoring reality. A few positive remarks about a car that's been on the market for less than a year is NOT indicative of how the vehicle will perform long term.

    Again, if you ask 100 people in a shopping mall, most likely only the Hyundai owners will testify anything positive with regards to the company. Bias? Yup. Unfair? Perhaps. Reality? Absolutely.

    I understand there have been improvements. Improving from the bottom isn't overwhelmingly difficult. The point is, UNTIL there is more than a few limited timeframe indicators, the majority of car buyers (note: NOT car magazine writers... buyers) will continue to view Hyundai as a second-tier product.

    If you disagree that's 100% ok. But you are in the minority... And most likely either a Hyundai owner or employee ;) j/k.

    It MAY be changing... heck, a lot of things might happen too. In the end, the Yaris is a better value because it doesn't rely on supposition. Toyota is a known quantity... with Hyundai you're crossing your fingers.

    Don't believe me? Tell that to the people who bought a 2003 Accent/Rio (the car with the worst residual value). I suppose you're going to tell me that up until 3 years ago, they hadn't turned the corner, but now they have, right?

    And why are residuals so low on those cars? Residuals are based upon 3 things: Desireablility, Reliability, and Availability. So what was it with all these 3 year old Accents? Did they over-produce them? Or were they just undesireable, inferior cars?

    I'm certain I will have a substantial market for my car when I go to sell it. Toyota's are funny like that. I don't have to worry about hoping that history won't repeat itself (because I'm sure all those people who bought the worst residual Accent in 2003 thought they were getting the "new" "quality" Hyundai...).

    If you want to take that gamble, good for you.

    I'd rather just go with the Yaris.

    T
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Of course for those of us who like a car for the long term (versus a fad car), then residuals are meaningless. What's the residual on a 10 year old car with 200,000 miles...hmmm.
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    It's not even about the $$$ involved per se, it's WHY the residuals on the Accent are so pathetic?

    Just because the occasional person keeps a vehicle for a long time (remember, nationwide, the average ownership length is only about 3.7 years), doesn't mean you should just ignore residuals.

    Residuals are a great indicator of the market on a given vehicle, regardless of how long you keep it.

    T
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    It seems you are finding it harder and harder to discuss the Yaris wrt the Accent on the cars' merits, and so are resorting to attacking the Hyundai brand and making sweeping generalizations about what people in a shopping mall think about Hyundai.

    Again, if you ask 100 people in a shopping mall, most likely only the Hyundai owners will testify anything positive with regards to the company.

    Well, at least you finally acknowledge that Hyundai owners are pleased with their cars. Did you know that Hyundai's repeat customer business is one of the best in the industry?

    On resale value: do you remember the analysis I did earlier in one of the Yaris discussions, and how many dollars you will be out-of-pocket if you buy an Accent or a Yaris, based on real-world sales prices and the ALG residual percentages? Recall that the results were in the Accent's favor, due to a lower price up front for comparably-equipped cars. I can repeat that here, if you don't remember it. The bottom line is, I don't care one bit if one car has a better ALG residual value percentage than another car. The two important questions are: 1) does the car meet my requirements (if not, the other question is moot); 2) which car will cost more (in dollars) during the term of ownership?

    I hope you are right that you will have a "substantial market" for your Yaris when you go to sell it. With safety features like side air bags and ABS becoming commonplace even on B-class cars, I wonder what the market will be like in a few years for a car like your Yaris that doesn't have those features.

    With regards to the Accent, Car and Driver counts as one of their "lows": "still carries a Hyundai badge on the nose".

    Could you please post the link to the quote from C/D on the current-gen Accent (2006-7)? I couldn't find it. I did find comments like this:

    There are no complaints about space from this elongated editor; or about the interior, which is an attractive two-tone design with legible instrumentation and a simple control layout.

    The strut-front and beam-axle-rear suspensions were tuned for a refined ride, says Hyundai, and we were surprised by the veracity of that claim.

    The new Accent is remarkably quiet in motion, so much so that the flagship Azera we drove on the same day seemed not that dissimilar.


    http://www.caranddriver.com/previews/10396/hyundai-accent-gls.html

    Do you realize that the 2003 Accent was designed in the 1990s? It's a totally different car than the current Accent, which we are discussing here--the car that CR rated better overall by a large margin than the Yaris.

    I noticed you didn't say anything about build quality. Were all those third-party opinions about the Accent's solid build quality enough to convince you that it is indeed at least the equal of the Yaris there, if not better? If not, maybe you could provide some published, professional third-party opinions (as I did) that state that the build quality of the Yaris is better than that of the Accent.

    btw, How did you determine that my opinion is the minority opinion--and not yours? Some scientific survey no doubt? ;)
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Also, with respect to residuals, what do they mean in actual dollar values. For example, I buy an Accent and a Yaris for $14,000, after 5 years what will the value be for each of them, assuming they're in the same condition at 75,000 miles each.

    For example, I just went to KBB to see the private party selling value for a 2001 Corolla LE with 75,000 miles and it's $7085. I did the same thing for a 2001 Hyundai Accent GL with 75,000 and the KBB private party value for excellent condition is $4380, or a $2705 difference.

    Now the MSRP of a 2007 Hyundai Accent GLS with Manual is $13,145, and for a 2007 Corolla LE with Manual is $16,035, or a difference of $2890. I didn't even compare in detail all of the options and features, but based on my knowledge of Toyotas, there are probably more safety features on the Hyundia, and probably more discounts when buying a Hyundia vs Toyota. So even if you end up losing $2705 when you sell the Accent 5 years down the road, you'll have paid at least $2890 less for the Accent and probably a lot more to get comparable features. And you're assuming that after the Toyota's 3 year warranty expires, you have zero repairs in the Corolla. With the Accent, you have the longer warranty.

    So in terms of value, the residual difference seems small in comparison to the initially higher cost, less features, and a greater potential of non-warranty repairs in the Toyota. You still may end up buying the Corolla, but for reasons other than residuals and future resale value, because there is no value there.
  • randydriverrandydriver Member Posts: 262
    I went and drove a Hyundai Accent and it was nice......I liked the way it handled and just the overall feel. I have also test drove a Toyota Yaris....and it had a different feel to it...but I liked it also. I think for me it come down to what I wanted from each car. I am kinda quirky so I think the Yaris handling and all and good gas mileage fill that need. For a more sporty feel and a little less mileage I would take the Accent.
  • canuck785canuck785 Member Posts: 160
    LOWS
    Sloppy shifter, still carries a Hyundai badge on the nose, never going to get you noticed.


    if you get the apple green color (hatch version), you WILL get noticed!!! ;)

    i drove both cars too, auto tranny and I much prefered the accent.we were in fact disppointed with the yaris, enough to take it off our list! and my husband is a BIG toyota fan.

    I went there, without any prejudice againts hyundai or favor to toyota. I want a car that I (yes, ME cause I will be THE driver and most important, I will be the one PAYING it).

    we were gonna go with the Xa, HANDS DOWN, but since it will be replaced soon or whatever is gonna happen to the scions, we choose to go another route (mostly because we are concerned about the parts availability in the future since they were not on the market for long) we prefer to go with something that is also easier to get (we dont want to order a car)

    last word, I really liked the accent and I am seriouly considering it for my next purchase.
    (i will need to drive the aveo5 and the accent again to make my last choice)
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Just FYI, the xA is about 95% the same as a Yaris and the Echo in terms of drivetrain (and chassis-wise it is virtually identical to the Echo hatchback sold in Canada etc). Parts availability shouldn't be a problem in the next 20 years, especially the way Toyota supports its models. They also sold about a kajillion ist's in Japan, which is what the xA is.

    I am surprised your local dealer doesn't keep enough stock to sell you an xA without ordering one. Ordering is really just for customizing a car to your exact preferences as far as accessories.

    I have been in the '07 Accent a few times now, and I would say if you are looking to have some of the optional equipment like the power package etc, the Accent SE is a better pick than the Yaris. But it's not cuter though...

    :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • canuck785canuck785 Member Posts: 160
    thanks for your infos!
    i never thought about that...hummm...
    and about ordering, i was not talking about the Xa in particular but in general.

    We are in rural kansas and the toyota/scion/hyundai/nissan are 50+ miles away, more for volks,suzuki,kia and others.
    the market here is really in trucks so they tend to keep only very few small cars.

    the toyota/scion had 2 yaris liftback (one bayou blue, nice color BTW and a silver one that we drove) and they had 2 xB and one xA that we drove.
    on the other hand, the hyundai had 4 accent. 2 wine red and 2 silver, all auto tranny and 2 were GS with prefered pack and 2 with premium pck.
    I asked him why they already came with pck (just for curiosity) and he said that it makes no sense to the dealership to put a car without a/c on the lot 'cause he will get stuck with it so they always order their cars with the pck that includes a/c. good thinking on their part!

    we also wanted to test drive a nissan versa but none was available at the subaru/nissan dealer. same at the honda, no Fit available. the ford dealership closer to us did not have any focus either...
    so now you know what i meant by "ordering" ! ;) it is just because of my location i guess.
  • besmithbesmith Member Posts: 13
    Hi this is my second post. I just wanted to share with you guys how I feel about my new car. I got a 2007 Accent gs white stick shift with premium package.I've had it for a month and its been great. a few things i really like are the markers, the ice cold a/c (i live in phoenix) and everything is laid out very logically. the window switches are illuminated but the lock switches are not. After you take the keys out the windows will still roll back up. the lighter is illuminated also. it has a nice arm rest. so far i've been getting 30 mpg mostly city. things that i don't really like are that the engine is buzzy at 80 mph. the range on the key fog is not the greatest. and there are no mirrors in the sun visors. hope this helps anyone. oh and the price was just right.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    how much did you pay for your Accent?

    Down here in Willcox, AZ, we're not needing our A/C in our Sportage 4x4 any more it's gotten colder out. It only gets to around 65 during the heat of the day, now. :D

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    They're right about the mistake of ordering an Accent without A/C for dealer stock: the dealer near me now has a special on his last '05 Accents (yes, that's not a typo - he still has 5 2005 Accents), all stick shift with no A/C, all $8888 each. Which is only about $1200 or so off MSRP, and I think he STILL won't be able to unload them. He should just call it a loss, sell them at $5-7K apiece, at that price I think they would go fast.

    At $8888 I bet he will still have some into calendar 2007.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • besmithbesmith Member Posts: 13
    i paid 12,100 and like 250 for tint. i traded in my maxima for 1000 plus an additonal 1000 down. my payment is like 230 a month. im only 19
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    for your age. Muscle cars are not where it's at. I like the economy cars much more and Hyundai does them well. So does Kia. They are now receiving some mainstream awards for their craftsmanship.

    I noticed it though on my 1999 Kia Sephia. There was something very desirable about that car and people let me know on the Internet that the car was a POS. Obviously I disagreed. I saw a future for Kia and big bro Hyundai is steam rolling along and also has a very, very bright future.

    Enjoy your ride and the Arizona sun-we sure are diggin' the Arizona life over here just north of the US-Mexico border.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • canuck785canuck785 Member Posts: 160
    last week I saw an add for a 2007 accent GS with prefered pck going for 8999$.
    I dont know why it was 3500$ les than msrp but it was one of those apple green ones...not sure how popular that color is ;) or maybe it was a demo?
    still it was a great deal IMO.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I expect it was a "one only" loss leader to drive traffic into the dealership. Happens quite often. I read about some lucky guy picking up a new Optima, $17k list, for a little over $11k on a deal like that.
  • canuck785canuck785 Member Posts: 160
    you must be right. it was saying in the add
    " this car only" so it was not a special for multiple cars but this very specific one.

    I said again and again that i would NOT get a 2 doors but i really enjoyed the accent on my test drive... ;)
    I always had 2 doors (except for my cherokee) and i did not wanna go back to the assle of moving/getting out of the car thing with a 2 doors :)
    on the other hand, i also had a wrangler for a couple of yrs and that car has to be the most "unpractical" "pain in the butt" car when it comes to loading ppl or stuff.
    the driver seat moves back and forth but you cant let ppl in on the side (it was a 1994) and i had to flip back the back seat everytime i went grocery shopping or had my dog in the car... and i will not comment with the soft top / hard top installation !!! ;)
    but i LOVE my JEEP !!!!!

    so anyways...i got a question for owners(or anyone for that matter)

    i saw somewhere that there is a pedal in the back on the front seats for passengers to use to move the seats to make getting out easy? and also, i see that the brochure is mentionning a reclining back seat but the sales guy never said anything about that...so what is the deal, they recline or not?
    i know the guy at toyota made a big deal of it(the reclining seat) in the yaris ;)

    and is the rear window wiper only available with the SE? that is my understanding at this point and i have to admit that i wish it was standard on the GS too...it should be part of the prefered pck with a/c and the CD payer :)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    There IS a pedal for the front passenger seat to slide it forward to ease entry to the rear. I don't think there's such a pedal on the driver's seat.

    The rear seat DOES recline, but not much--just a couple of inches I'd estimate. But I found it useful as it makes the seatback a little more comfy.

    I think you are correct that the rear wiper is only on the SE. I know that Consumer Reports griped about lack of a rear wiper on the GS they tested (although they could have tested a SE and it would have fallen mid-pack in pricing with the cars they tested). But maybe you should go for the SE anyway, as it has better handling, those cool 16" wheels, more gauges, rear wiper, leather wheel/shifter, and most importantly... ABS with 4-wheel disc brakes.
  • canuck785canuck785 Member Posts: 160
    i am not sure i wanna go with the SE. mostly because of the tires that are more expensive than the ones on the GS. I am trying to keep the price as low as possible. the only, really ONLY thing i will not compromise on is A/C..the rest is all up for discussion :)
    the reason i am trying to keep to price tag really low is that I won't have a big down payment and no car to trade-in for.

    backy, do you know if hyundai as specials on regular basis?

    and while i am at it ;)
    my sticker would be 12.317$ for a GS with prefered pck right? what would be a good deal to get? i know there is not a big mark up on them, but how much lower should I expect to get if i try a bit?? :)

    question for yaris owners:
    on all the pics i am seeing, the speedo is white(light colored) numbers on a black back. the one we test drove, had the opposite, black numbers on white/silvery (ugh!) why is that???
  • boris13boris13 Member Posts: 80
    I think it depends on whether you drove a liftback or a sedan. They have different speedo clusters.
  • canuck785canuck785 Member Posts: 160
    i was refering the liftback pics. and we test drove a liftback...i was just wondering why is was different than in the pictures? not a big deal... :)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If you want to keep the price low and need A/C, you might look into a 1-2 year old Elantra 5-door--much more car than the Accent or Yaris. Tires are cheap, good replacements available for around $40.

    Hyundai dealers typically offer discounts, and this is a good time of year for you--year-end. There is no general rebate on the Accent now, and that may change in early 2007 (speculation based on history) but you seem to need a car now, so shoot for one on the 29th or 30th. Certainly don't settle for sticker!
  • canuck785canuck785 Member Posts: 160
    an elantra? will have to look at it!
    but the accent gs looks GREAT! i just loved it when i saw it on the lot! really. that wine red is Gorgeous!
    hey, i am a woman, the car has to look good!!! :P
    i can't buy just now...the immigration dept. is keeping me waiting for my work permit, SSN etc....GRRR...
    (i am wondering if they have anything againts canadians??!!! LOL !!! but as soon as it gets in, it will buy within a few days at the most within that month.

    that's why i am doing my homework prior so i will not be pressed by time and just buy anything. I have noticed a couple of times when i went test driving, that i actually know MORE about the cars than some salesman!! LOL!!!

    again, backy, thanks for your infos!
  • brettes23brettes23 Member Posts: 26
    You gotta be kiding me? Former Hyundia owner here! I had a 1995 accent, 2003 Elantra, and a 2005 Sonota!! I gave Hyundia three strikes and guess what? I now own a toyota! I also sell cars for a living and this is the first toyota I've ever owned. As for the Hyundia, never again!!!!!! In fact how can you put Hyundia and Toyota in the same sentence! One word JUNK!!!!! There is a reason why they have the one hundred thousand mile warranty!
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