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Fit vs. MINI
hpmctorque
Member Posts: 4,600
Reviews of the Honda Fit suggest that it shares the attributes - nimble handling, peppy, fun-to-drive, cute - that MINI Cooper owners value. In addition, it's cheaper, runs on 87 octane, has more dealerships, and is likely to be more reliable. Is the MINI's handling, fun factor and styling sufficiently better than the Fit's to offset the Honda's advantages?
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That's called V-Tec
That's passing range, and you want it to be at least 2/3 the way to redline when you whomp on it to pass. The automatic will be drastically slower in a roll-on passing manuever. Sure, you can downshift, but that's even more noise and worse mileage. I want a small car that maxxes out at ~90mph but gets there quickly. No need to ever drive faster.
**
"Handles like a champ
The Fit drove like a champ, with quick steering and exquisite road feel. These impressions were confirmed on the track, where it slipped through the slalom in 6.1 seconds at 67.5 mph. The Fit felt stable and well balanced, and provided good feedback to the driver. It was about as much fun as you could have in a thrifty little car. Not only that, but the sporty handling didn't sacrifice comfort; it provided a pleasing, comfortable ride."
**
This is because it's about the same wheelbase and dimmension as a Mini. It's small and very agile. Big plus for city traffic.
And the quote was nice. :P Evidently the reviewers agreed - it's shockingly close to the base Cooper(not the S, of course) in how it actually drives.
Note - it's almost half a second quicker 0-60 than the base Cooper. Tighter handling as well. Quicker slalom times. Virtually the same wheelbase and weight. The tires are almost identical in size as well. It's no underpowered toy, to be sure.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=109810/pageId=69- - - - 465
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=61670/pageNumber=2
Very simmilar from what I can see. The Fit slalom was 6.1 seconds at 67.5 mph. The base cooper does it at 67.4mph. Ubsurbly close to each other.
Highlights:
- same power to weight ratios. Acceleration is very simmilar.
- same slalom scores.
- height and width are visually simmilar, though the Fit is a couple of inches taller and squarer.
- Honda has a smaller wheelbase(misprint in the URL above) 96.5 for the Fit, 97.1 for the Cooper!
- Cooper turning: 34.9ft. Fit: 34.3ft. Fit is more agile.
- Cooper weight: 2524lbs Fit Weight: 2432 - fit is lighter.
Honda Cons:
- Not available in Yellow, yet.
- Braking is a few feet longer, though still very quick.(I suspect a caliper upgrade to dual piston models would solve this)
Honda is better:
- Is a foot longer. Actual cargo space.
- seats 5, not 4!
- slightly better safety features(though the Cooper does brake a bit quicker)
- more headroom
- quieter overall
- better stereo
- uses regular gas, not premium.
- all the handling plusses add up - so much so that even with pathetic stock suspension, it equalled the Cooper in the slalom.
- thousands less.
P.S. I bet you that the upcoming 2nd generation Mini will be almost exactly the same dimmensions as the Fit. It'll have more power, to be sure, but $18-20K out the door is a huge margin - enough to actually "trick out" a Fit if you wanted to - and blow the doors off of the Mini.
Traded in a 2003 MiniCooper S. Also own a 2000 VW New Beetle TDI.
Couple of things to note:
-Front leg room is not as good as either the Beetle or MiniCooper. But it doesn't feel cramped - I'm just used to small cars with an amazing amount of front seat room.
-Turning radius is almost as good as the Mini, and much better than the Beetle.
-Acceleration seems to be as good as the Mini.
-Ride is nowhere near as stiff as the Mini, and is better than the Beetle. Both of those cars take little bumps very hard.
-Seating position feels high compared to the other cars. Wish there was a way to sit lower, but I'm sure I'll adjust quickly.
-Interior space is amazing. I can't wait to try transporting my bicycle in the space between the front and back seats.
-Wish there were more closed interior storage spaces. Having lots of compartments is nice, but that means more stuff to fly around and hurt me if I'm in an accident.
-None of the interior controls seem to be in strange locations. Drove home in the dark, and had no trouble finding door latches, window controls, headlights, radio controls, etc.
-Clutch seems to be very closely spaced next to the brake. People with big feet might have a problem with this.
-Front cupholders are in a similar location to the Beetle - wonder if that means short cups only (I won't be eating or drinking in this car for a while anyway).
-Not happy that there is no lock on the gas cap.
I haven't really had a chance to get to know this car. But these are my immediate impressions.
I was sold on the fuel efficiency, magic back seat, color, and reliability reputation of Honda.
I do wish the Fit had a moonroof available. Had one on both the Beetle and Mini, and will have to get used to a solid roof again.
I like the fact that the security system doesn't chirp when the car is locked. If you want to be sure, you can hit lock twice in quick succession and it will beep, but I really like quiet security systems.
Wish it had auto-up windows like the Beetle.
The few miles we drove it had no rattles or squeaks. The Mini was constantly developing noisy dash rattles, until the dealer finally insulated the entire area about six months ago.
Someone else commented about the giant blue stereo display. I agree it is too big. The instrument gauges have a neat color scheme at night, but so did both the Mini and the Beetle.
Demographics - I'm 34, husband is 43. This car was really my decision. Not exactly the target youth market. But it's not like I could afford any kind of new car back when I was in my late teens and early twenties. This is only my second car purchase - all cars I drove before the Beetle were hand-me-downs from my father.
I can't wait to drive it this weekend!
A campaign for the new car, a five-door hatchback called the Honda Fit, makes media choices meant to help consumers sort themselves as, well, fit or unfit for Fit, which will compete against models like the Chevrolet Aveo, Kia Rio, Nissan Versa, Scion xA, and Toyota Yaris. The Fit campaign has a budget estimated at $20 million to $30 million, typical for a new car. To demonstrate that Fit is smaller than most other cars, American Honda and its agency, RPA, will run a series of eye-catching commercials that are five seconds long rather than the standard 30 seconds.
Smaller wheelbase, smaller turning radius, quicker 0-60 time, slightly less weight, better slalom times... the list goes on. It's virtually identical in size and performance to a base Mini except that it edges out the Mini by a few tenths of a second here and a few inches there. Plus, it holds way more cargo and 5 people in a pinch(you gotta be close friends, though - lol)
Honda needs to get leather in it asap and market it as an average person's Mini. Want Mini-like driving and fun but don't want to deal with the lack of reliability and price-gouging?
CVT
Panoramic Sunroof
Xenon Headlights
Park Distance Control
Navigation
Automatic Air Conditioning
Integrated Gargage Door Opener
Dynamic Stability Control
Heated Seats
5 different types of Alloy Wheels
Run Flat Tires
Multi Function Steering Wheel
Harmon Kardon Audio System
Just a few of the many customization options not available for the Fit.
The Fit is mini. The Fit is not a competitor to the MINI. :P LOL.
The Fit does have Limited Editions.
Fit or Fit Sport.
5 spd. manual or 5 speed automatic.
Choice of color and that is it for the Fit.
Sorry, wanted to say it one more time, BASE Mini is a competitor to the Fit. Not optioned Mini. BASE.
Next week Honda will launch its new Fit subcompact, which it hopes will become the next big thing in small cars and take a bite from a segment that's been dominated of late by cars such as the Toyota Yaris, Hyundai Accent and Chevrolet Aveo.
For some strange reason, Honda does not list the MINI as it's competition for the Fit. :surprise:
That field includes the Mazda3, Ford Focus and Toyota Yaris, which is almost as new as the Fit.
Here is another article re Fit competitors
FYI - MINI buyers do not typically buy base MINI's according to MINI sales experts.
Dominated by the Yaris? They are just off the boat. The Echo didn't sell all that well as I understand.
I finally saw some advertising for the Fit. Looks like they want to place in as a practical alternative for bigger vehicles. Practical and fun. They show it munching on a minivan or something. I thought it was a pretty good ad. They used a techno modified voice to make is sound like a great new innovation. Maybe it is...though it has been around awhile.
You get Honda reliability and user-friendliness plus it happens to drive and handle exactly like a Base Mini. That's a hell of a "bonus" compared to most other cars.
With the Audi A3, the Mercedes B Class, and the Volvo microcar coming, as well as the Smart(finally) - you have to consider splitting the segment into two - commuter-boxes and luxury models. The Fit with leather and a couple of options could compete with the upper-end cars quite easily.
The auto magazines need to stop comparing the Fit to the others just because of its size. It drives and handles much better than anything they are comparing it to.
Now, I suppose they could also compare a RX-8 to a Camry, afterall, they are about the same price - but they aren't the same when you get to driving them. That said - teh RX-8 isn't a 350Z or IS350 by a long shot. Neither is the Fit a Cooper S or a Mercedes B class. But it's certainly no Yaris. Compared to an Accent - it *is* the RX-8 of basic transportation. Lack of features nonwithstanding, the Fit runs circles around the Hyundai out on the street.
Side note: the last car I drove that was positioned like this and also drove this much better compared to the others was a Volvo 240. It was Volvo's budget car, yet its low price, useability, reliability, and most of all, superb handling - it sold better than their upper-end models for many years. Honda sells more Fits in many markets than any other model.
I see the same dynamics at work here. The Fit has better cargo options, better reliability, handles twice as well as any other car in its price-range other than maybe a base Golf, and tons of safety features. It's not a matter of it being better than every other car in every area so much as it gets it right overall and suffers no major problems.
P.S. Any Civic 14 inch alloys will work on it. Mugen has a supercharger kit in the works - 145HP. There are better body kits as well. If you look at the aftermarket for options, only the Mini and Scion(s) have simmilar ease of customization. It's nuts if you look at what you can get from Japan alone for it. A Cobalt or KIA? Lol.
For me, the Yaris doesn't compete with the Fit because it's not a 5-door, but other people, who are looking at the Fit for other reasons and don't particularly need a 5-door configuration, obviously see them as competitive. (My own comparison list included some non-obvious choices, like the Chevy HHR and the Ford Focus wagon.)
If someone is looking for a small, fun-to-drive "go-cart" kind of car, they might compare the Fit and the Mini. I guess I can relate to the comparison because, when I test drove the Fit, it reminded me of when I drove a Mini. If you haven't driven both, you might be less inclined to see them as competitive.
It is a subcompact B-Class economy car in the $13,500 to $16,500 price range.
Generalizing and individual interpretation is wonderful when looking at an inkblot and telling the therapist what you see, however, classifying a vehicle and defining it's most similar rivals allows a starting point of uderstanding and a point at which to begin a comparison.
I agree with you if I ignore the first two sentences of your post.
The most similar vehicle to the Fit at this time is the Nissan Versa which is not yet available.
By your definition, the closest competitors to the Fit are the Aveo, Rio5, and the Accent and Yaris hatchbacks although they have only 3 doors, at least in the States). Cars like the Versa, Spectra5, Elantra hatchback, Reno, Focus, Mazda3s, and Aerio are another class up in size.
The competitors to the Fit are defined by the size of the Fit, price of the Fit, intended use of the Fit and features of the Fit. It is a subcompact B-Class economy car in the $13,500 to $16,500 price range
People don't really put things in neat little categories lke that when they're comparing things. Only those who need to categorize things for some reason do that (magazines, the government).
For one thing, boundaries are artificial. By your definition, a $16,500 car would not compete with a $16,600 car. And a 99 cubic foot car (interior volume) wouldn't compete with a 100 cubic foot car (that's the government's boundary for when something is called a compact instead of a subcompact).
Also, you yourself posted that the Yaris and Chevy Aveo are competitors, but they're not in the 13,500 to 16,500 price range.
Cars don't always compete only with cars that fall into the exact same size class, people may compare a car with something slightly bigger or slightly smaller. They are unlikely to compare a car with another that is twice the price, but it is common that they may compare a car with something that is a few thousand more or less.
Mini - starts at $17540
Fit Sport - starts at $13850
http://drknife.com/blog
Mini - starts at $17540
Fit Sport - starts at $13850"
First, yes you can still compare them...unless there is a secret limit I don't know about yet. Price is not necessarily a determinate for certain people of when to compare or not compare two vehicles.
Second, the difference is only $2370 since the Fit Sport (as you mentioned above) starts at $15,170
It is the base model that starts at $13,850.
2006 Fit 5 spd manual MSRP $14,400
2006 MINI Cooper 5 spd manual MSRP $18,000
FIT 5 door
Cooper 3 door
Fit Asian
Cooper British
Fit Economy
Cooper Premium
Comparing the two, PRICELESS!
You are correct, that is my point.
Fit is an excellent product that is overpriced by $1,000 if Honda wanted to sell 200,000 Fit. At a volume of 40,000 Fit that is the intended sales goal the Fit will have more buyers than cars.
What is frustrating to me is that features found on the Fit such as magic seats are also offered on Civic hatch in markets outside of North America and space efficient Accord Wagon is also denied to Honda customers in North America.
With the Fit, the Civic 5 door hatchback, the Accord 5 door wagon, that would be a fantastic lineup of versatile fuel use friendly and space friendly cars!
...with a price tag to match
> with the upper-end cars quite easily.
An Acura version, perhaps...
This is ridiculous. I see people complain about an economy car not having leather seats. We Americans are stoopid.
Bingo. While there will be some (and by some I mean very, very little) cross shopping of these cars, they are very different animals that happen to be roughly the same size. The Fit is more mainstream, and more practical; the Mini truly is a lifestyle car. It's not perfect, but it has more personality out there than virtually anything else out there, especially at where it's priced.
They're both great cars--but they're aimed at different audiences.
As for Mini being overrpriced--the flip side is it does wonders for resale value.
Numerous car mags and boards do "get" the Mini--it's all about fun; I made the mistake of driving a Mini, and I was hooked (although I went for an S).
The Fit is a great car--and if I was in college, it would be something I'd strongly consider (I owned a Civic when I was younger--great car--and we have an Odyssey as well). At that age, the Mini wouldn't have been high on my list. But at forty, the Mini does it for me--just a blast to drive, very quirky, and suprisingly comfortable (more front to back leg room than my mid-sized SUV, but then again the back seats are pretty much for show only).
Like I wrote earlier, the Mini isn't nearly as practical as the Fit. But the fun factor is something different...
I have no problem with the idea of comparing the two cars, since that's exactly what I did.
But the issues you brought out above are exactly why these cars are so different, and won't be cross shopped by very many people.
Would I by a Mini if reliability was primary on my list? No. But it's not.
Ditto for gas mileage.
The relative scarcity of dealers is not an issue for everyone, but is to many.
It really should be an easy choice for most people, one way or the other, if they do compare the two. Not like choosing between and Accord or a Camry, for example.
The Fit *is* the new entry-level car. It's also not the smallest car Honda makes. They make a tiny 2/3 size Fit in Japan that is really like a 2-3 person Aveo. I think it's called the Honda Life. It's cheap - and the Fit is the bigger luxury version of it.
Overall, it's exactly like getting a Yaris or Aveo or whatever small car you want, with a better engine and transmisson, side airbags, abs, and Mini handling. That's definately worth a couple of thousand more than an Aveo.
I hear peolpe whining about the cost. If you add up the comparable equipment(never mind finding one in RL with ABS or side airbags for most of them), it's very close in price - but the Fit still has a Honda engine and Mini-like suspension. It's a clear winner.
Also, part of the price increase over Japan is the automatic. The CVT automatic is a cheap option in Japan, while in the U.S., it's the same one in the Civic. 5 speed automatic - that's a serious leap forward that NOBODY ELSE can match. Add in the Mini Cooper-like paddle shifters and it's a real gem.
In many ways, it's easily equal to the base Civic, at least form an engineering and safety standpoint. I do wish they had an EX package, though. I'd gladly pay $1000 more for rear disc brakes, adjustable seat height, a map light, better carpets, more amenities, and so on. The leather they offer in China is amazing looking as well.
Have you driven the MINI and the Fit? I have and the Fit handling does not evoke similarities to the MINI handling.
They are as comparable as Sake to Guinmess Stout.
The Fit handles better than any of it's competitors in it's class.
Same power to weight ratio. Same wheelbase. Same width. Look at the specs - the Fit beats or equals the base Mini by a tiny margin in every measurement. And it actually does a bit *better* on the test-track.
It really is in a different class than the Hyundais and crud like the Aveo and so on.
All true. But....the Fit ain't no Mini. Period. In its highest and best form, the Fit may "hint" at an absolutely basic Cooper. Maybe. But have you seen the option list for a Mini, nevermind the S? :confuse:
You guys have got to stop comparing the Fit to a Mini. Honda was not trying to build a cut-rate Mini with the Fit. No way, no how. If they did, it wouldn't be slotted beneath the Civic, and it would be wearing an Acura badge, with more serious hardware.
The Mini is a more luxurious car and has some nice features, to be sure. OTOH, if you are like most people and want a small car to get around town in, the 3-5K premium of the base Mini, then all the options on top of that - it's hard to justify. Plus, the Mini isn't a paragon of reliability from what I've read.
5K in user/dealer added options for the Fit certainly will turn it into a serious vehicle - and still not be what a stripped-down Cooper S costs(IF you can find one for MSRP that is) The car has been a serious hit in Japan for years now among the tuner crowd.
But you can go test it for yourself. When you have, come back. That Car and Driver has it up in the top cars for slalom test, EVER, shows that it may be basic, but it isn't a joke. It does to most small cars what the original Mini did to its competition - drive nice circles around it, despite it being a basic car.
Well, there's the understatement of the year! Let's see...zenon, Dynamic Stability Control, navigation, leather, 17" alloy, heated headlamp washer, trip computer, auto climate control, multifunction steering wheel, steptronic 6-speed auto, 6-speed manual, limited-slip.....need we go on??
"5K in user/dealer added options for the Fit certainly will turn it into a serious vehicle"
It still won't turn it into a Mini. What it will do is turn it into something the Fit's target market will not buy.
My gawd, how did I ever live without that one!
The Mini in most basic form costs $18,000 and offers
-6 speaker single disc player
-Leather-wrapped steering wheel
-Vinyl (Leatherette) seating
-A/C (manual)
-5-speed MT
-Optional paddle-shifted automatic ($1300)
The Fit has all of these features, with a few exceptions/additional features:
-the 6-speaker stereo is 200 Watts and ALSO features MP3 WMA playback and an MP3/auxiliary input jack
-The seats are cloth
-Foglights are standard (they are optional/extra cost on the Mini)
-Cruise Control is standard, it is optional/extra cost on the Mini)
-The Fit runs on regular at 33/38MPG, the Mini takes premium at 28/36MPG
-Paddle shifter-option costs $500 less than Mini - ($800)
Honda Fit Sport 5MT - $15,170
Mini Cooper w/Fog Lights and Cruise Control - $18,400
Honda Fit Sport and Paddle Shift - $15,970
Mini Cooper w/Fog Lights, Cruise Control, and Paddle Shift - $19,700
While, the Mini may be the better car overall, the Fit makes an incredible case for itself, especially at it's price point.
Xenons (thanks for the reminder)
Traction and stability control
Cornering brake control
(Aforementioned) headlamp washer
6-way adjustable seats for both driver and passenger
Ambient lighting
Follow-me-home headlights
Puddle lights
15" alloys
Does the Mini cost more? Absolutely. But my point is the Mini is so far out of the Fit's league, that to compare the Fit to it, is ludicrous, and unfair to the Fit.
I would rather have a car with a good repair record than one with a poor repair record. It is more fun to drive the car in the country than to drive the car to the dealer's service shop.
The fit is equpped for a car of its size. If you drive in hte city and around, that is a fine car. If you drive a lot long distance, you get a larger car.
Ohh Mini, it's not about the size, it's about how you use it :-) that applies to paople that spend a lot of $ and still only have a mini.
When i pay a lot of money, I want a Mazda 6 Wagon with all gadgets... whey would I pay the same money for a Mini?
I can live with a Fit (even wehen it is not my dreamcar...) but i only pay 15000 for it. If i can afford 30 Grand, than for a car, not a Mini...
Oh, and Mini is a Rover... they got bankrupt because they built the worst cars in Europe (Daewoo built the worst cars in the rest of the World and is bankrupt too). Honda builts some of the best (reliability, economy) cars. How do you compare them?
and whoever thinks he gets a BMW in Miniformat... Peugeot engine :lemon:
No one buys a Mini for the size or roominess. There's not much of either. The Mini is a lifestyle choice, a statement car. Its not practical, its not comfortable. Its fun, its quirky, its....a Mini!
BTW, doesn't the Mazda6 have a Ford Duratec engine?