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Fit vs. MINI

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Comments

  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    Alright - enough is enough. A number of posts have been deleted. Keep it about the cars. Anything other than that which is personal and attacking will be removed.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    It really is in a different class than the Hyundais and crud like the Aveo and so on.

    Why do you insist on bringing your Korean-car bashing into discussions that have nothing to do with them?

    I agree the Fit is in a different class than the Hyundais, specifically the Accent that is a direct competitor for the Fit. That is, the Fit is in a lower class. You noted:

    I'd gladly pay $1000 more for rear disc brakes, adjustable seat height, a map light, better carpets, more amenities, and so on.

    You probably don't realize that you were describing the Accent pretty well--standard rear disc brakes, dual height adjustments on the driver's seat, map lights, better carpets, more amenities even on the base GLS model such as dual lighted vanity mirrors, front and rear center armrests, six-speaker MP3 stereo, an honest-to-gosh dead pedal, nice-looking wheel covers, locking fuel filler door, and readily available alloys (15" or 16" depending on model) and optional remote locking with alarm (and on the hatchback, available power moonroof). The funny thing is, you don't need to pay $1000 more for these amenities. Actually, you would pay about $800 less than the Fit base model, before any discount from the dealer. Meaning in the real world today the Accent will cost much less, with much more equipment including 15" alloys.

    So can you try to stick to the topic at hand, Fit vs. MINI? There is another discussion for Fit vs. Accent if you want to talk more about how the Fit is in a different class than Hyundai.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    Oh dear. I said "Hyundai" and this other guy blew up again. Either I mention "Mini" and othe guy blows up or the other does a knee-jerk reaction about Korean cars.

    You'll note that most of the time, I also include the Yaris.

    Here's a full list of cars that I have personally test-
    driven that handle worse than the Fit:

    Toyota:
    Yaris
    Xa
    Xb

    Mazda:
    3 series

    Suzuki
    Reno

    Hyundai:
    Accent

    Fit:
    Everything.

    Daewoo:
    Aveo
    BTW - Daewoo does build crud.

    Chrysler
    Neon/the new replacement for it

    GM:
    Cobalt
    Anything by Buick

    I'm sure I forgot a bunch as well. The Fit gives me the same driving experience and immediate feedback that a Subaru, a Corolla SE-R, a Mini,a Tc, Golf, or a Focus gave me. It didn't drive like a tin can. It didn't rattle going over potholes and railroad tracks as much. The rear end didn't feel like it was flapping around/along for the ride like the Yaris and Aveo, either.

    Going around an outward-sloping turn and hitting uneven pavement(road construction plates they put down) - the Fit was tight. The Yaris - bounced. (the older Tercel also did this) The Aveo was beyond dreadful - even worse. The Aveo reminded me of the Kia/Ford Festiva or a Suzuki/Geo Metro.

    On smooth road, all were fine - the problem was what happened when the conditions went from yuppie neighborhood to normal Los Angeles streets. Add in some potholes, cracking pavement, patches, roadwork, and so on - and the others start loosing points.

    In an 18-25K car, you expect good handling. In a 14K car, that's often a rarity. OTOH... That a car like the base Golf can come in at or near the same price and offer good handling, as does the Focus and a few others - it's clearly a matter of priorities. I'll take better handling and driving characteristics every day over bling and amenities if I have to choose between the two.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    If somebody blows up here because you mention "Mini", that is their problem because this discussion is all about the Fit vs. the Mini. If you can't keep on subject, and feel the need to take digs at Hyundais et. al. when they aren't anywhere close to the topic, that is your problem.
  • shado4shado4 Posts: 287
    I'll take better handling and driving characteristics every day over bling and amenities if I have to choose between the two.

    Why do you have to choose? The upcoming Hyundai Accent SE 3-door will offer the best of both worlds. From Hyundai's press release:

    "Accent was tuned to satisfy unique consumer needs. The GLS four-door was tuned for comfort, but still feels agile. The GS three-door has a unique steering rack with increased sporty feel. The SE trim delivers even more road-holding capability with a sport-tuned suspension featuring 24 percent stiffer front spring rate and 11 percent stiffer rear spring rate, larger stabilizer bar (24 mm.), unique strut valving, high performance steering gear and larger wheels and tires. Accent SE delivers a 70 percent increase in roll control over the GLS, even exceeding the roll stiffness of the Hyundai Tiburon SE. To complete the performance package, Accent SE has powerful four-wheel disc brakes with a four-sensor, four-channel Antilock Brake System (ABS). Electronic Brake Force Distribution (EBD) is integrated into the ABS, automatically adjusting braking force front to rear based on vehicle loading conditions."

    Now add in the available amenities that will be offered in the SE. Things like a power moonroof, maplights, in-dash 6-CD changer, plus over 35 accessories that can be bought to personalize the Accent to your liking. All at a price that will likely undercut the Fit. Seems to me the Accent SE may give Honda a few fits. :P

    As far as the MINI, my father owns a Cooper S and that is a truly fun car to drive. If the Fit can actually match the handling characteristics of the Cooper, then kudos to Honda!
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    I wouldn't underestimate the Koreans. Not anymore. They are clearly in the Japanese' rear view mirror. And closing fast! Now if they can only address their tendency to overstyle....
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    Drop the personal snipes or you will be canned from this discussion.

    We already have a Fit v. Hyundai discussion. Please look at the list of the Fit discussions here http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f09fe85/ for the list of Honda Fit discussions (main and comparisons).
  • re:

    The Fit gives me the same driving experience and immediate feedback that a Subaru, a Corolla SE-R, a Mini,a Tc, Golf, or a Focus gave me

    Maybe you meant Nissan Sentra SE-R (not Corolla)? I test drove one of those once, great car, fun to drive, in the same way Mini and Fit are.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    Yeah - my bad. Sentra SE-R. Very nice car, if a tad overpriced.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I know its unrelated to the current issue at hand, but they (late model Sentra SE-Rs are a great deal if you can still find one (old model) as far as bang for buck! They feel about a generation behind, but are cheap!
  • upland22upland22 Posts: 3
    I agree that the Fit's clutch is too closely spaced to the brake pedal. I hope Honda does something about this in the future.
  • upland22upland22 Posts: 3
    Is everyone satisfied with the factory treads? Comments?
  • kagedudekagedude Posts: 407
    The Fit's "driving" characteristics is very close to the Mini (Note that I don't mention accessories).

    I've driven my brother's Mini Cooper S, I think its a 2003 model. Never driven the Base Mini which seems to be what we are comparing the Fit too. Interestingly, from a Mini perspective, the Base is pretty slow. I almost got the car and didn't like it compared to the S. So to compare the Fit to the Base Mini isn't really saying much. Lets compare it to the S instead. :P

    The Fit's steering feel and response is better than most cars in its class but can't be compared to the Mini. Its true, the Mini S' steering response is instant. Its compared more to the EVO and I believe the EVO and the Mini S was the top 2 in handling a few years ago. The Fit's steering response has a little delay and as I posted earlier, my Mazda 3i even gave me a better feel. However, given this for normal driving, the Fit is more suitable.

    The Fit's initial torque as someone posted before makes you feel the car is fast. I drove around Manhattan and the Fit sprints and zips past yellow cabs with ease and sometimes too much causing the ABS to initiate when I brake while going over bumps and potholes. The car is just too hyper in the 2500-3500 rpm range.

    On the highway, the car too picks up reasonably well. Although it does reach around 3500rpm when you hit 70mph+, the car has a very quiet cabin that you only feel to shift into 6th gear (which isn't there) because of the torque/hp feel.

    Its suspension really holds up to those bumps and potholes while driving through the city. When you hit a bump, it recovers quick with no further bounce. The Fit doesn't really lean when going on sharp turns. The car is very solid which makes it feel like the Mini.

    The Fit's gauge cluster IMHO is better than the Mini. The Honda Fit's especially at night makes you feel you are driving a luxury car.

    The Fit beats the Mini in MPGs. Got my 3rd fill up and it still averages over 37mpg combined city/hwy. :P

    Its funny, when I first drove the Fit off the dealer lot, it felt bouncy and wobbly. After a day of driving, wearing the tires from the armor all and taking off some air (dealer had it at 36psi so I lowered it to 32psi), the car's handling/steering felt a lot better. Maybe I just got used to it? :confuse:
  • koimankoiman Posts: 12
    Fit is a great car but at least at the present is not a competitor to a Mini. Fit or a variation will need a body style that doesn't blare Economy Car. When or if that happens look out Mini your sales will drop. I own a 03 Mini and really like it but I am disappointed that Mini hasn't improved the minor annoinances and I also expected mini to introduce new models. For a company that intends to excite they seem complacent the last few years.
  • cct1cct1 Posts: 221
    The life cycle of the brand is five years--there is a totally new model coming out next year--out is the supercharger, in is a twinscroll turbo. There is also a new model coming out--the traveler, which is an extended wheel base.

    Many of the bugs HAVE been worked out--beginning 2005 model was significantly changed; the dash is now a single piece (which is where a number of the rattles occurred), the base model transmission was upgraded to the gertrag version, and in the S the gear ratios have been reworked (and the suspension softened, which may or may not be an improvement, depending on your perspective)--if you haven't driven a 2005 or 2006, you probably should--they are significantly (although not radically) different from the previous models.

    You'll never see a million Mini models--it's not what BMW is trying to do with the Mini; they are trying to stay with the Mini heritage. Heck, there's quite an uproar over the Traveler, let alone a bunch other models. Personally, a bunch of Mini model don't make much sense--I'd hate to see that much brand dilution.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    We've had our '05 Mini for over a year now. There's still some squeaks (not really rattles) from the dash area, but reliability has been superb. I'm not a fan of the CVT though. And of course, in terms of styling, the Mini's in the majors compared to single-A for the Fit. But I doubt Honda's trying to sell the Fit on looks.
  • koimankoiman Posts: 12
    cct, I was hoping that mini would branch out in a similar way to scion with new models. A niche model 2 seater pickup for instance would be a model more in line with the mini image instead of another wagon. I also would like to have seen the engine hp increased incrementally. I am also disturbed by the talk of cheapening the car I read that the hood would changed to a conventional short body part in order to lower cost. This kind of thinking would put the mini in competition with honda and toyota and hurt the company in my opinion.
  • cct1cct1 Posts: 221
    I don't think you'll see mini branching out like Scion--Scion is a high volume vehicle; Toyota can make a nice little profit by doing little variations here and there (all of which cost money to develop--although probably not too much on the Scion platform). Mini, on the other hand, will only turn a profit for BMW with the next generation. There are variations of the Mini done by Bertone (Who does a two seater pickup off the Mini platform, and is building the GP), but it wouldn't be profitable for BMW to do this--they wouldn't sell enough, and the retooling wouldn't be worth it. But I agree with you to a certain extent--a Moke, two seater with a bed, etc would be kind of cool.

    As for HP, when you start getting above 220 on the Mini's platform, you're really pushing it for what the average driver can handle. You can still mod it though. I would love to see an AWD Mini though--and that hasn't been ruled out for down the road, although there are know plans for it in the immediate future (Gertrag actually developed an AWD for the Mini, but it got shot down).

    The hood will remain a clamshell; the only difference it the lights will be integrated into the body rather into the hood itself (There are two holes in the hood that comes down over the lights). Otherwise, the hood is the same design as before (No way Mini could have gotten rid of the clamshell hood!). It will be a bit taller, but that's due to the new European pedestrian laws.

    The interior materials are actually supposed to be of higher quality; you're dead on in that there is some concern about what they're doing with the rest of the car. One thing to remember, it's possible to use a cheaper manufacturing process AND improve the car at the same time. There have been some track tests floating about that suggest that the new Mini's performance is going to be slightly improved over the 2006; I doubt that Mini is seriously dumbing down car whose reputation is built on it's handling, but that remains to be seen.

    Again, I bought a 2006, and I'd do it again; I'm not sold on the 2007's--yet. But down the road, I might be...
  • sfinstersfinster Posts: 17
    The gas door does not lock when the car is locked. I have a Fit Sport. I wouldn't be surprised if the Jazz has this feature, though.
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Posts: 678
    All Fits/Jazzes around the world have the locking fuel filler door except for the United States and Canada.
This discussion has been closed.