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Land Rover LR2

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Comments

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Posts: 2,197
    millions of owners as yourself were just as excited when they got their FREELANDERS

    This was your direct quote in post 239.

    Also I said "SPEND MILLIONS IF NOT BILLIONS" not make millions of rovers

    This was your quote in post 255. If you are going to rant and rave, at least back it up with facts, not just angry mutterings. Also, a Freelander forum would be appropriate, not a forum dedicated to LR2. FYI, the LR2 was subjected to over 1 million miles of testing prior to introduction. And as BR told you, not one part was carried over from Freelander to LR2.
  • I read somewhere that Land Rover has one of the highest Customer Loyalty Rates among all car manufacturers. To paraphrase this online article (wish I could find it again...), the chances that a Land Rover owner will buy another Land Rover is very high. Why is that?

    To clear things up, I'm not talking about customer service satisfaction either.
  • muddyymuddyy Posts: 60
    So I'm a little confused about your point. If a loaded BMW X3 is much cheaper to lease than a loaded LR2, and the reason is because BMW is much more successful in the US then one should consider buying the LR2 because... ? Here's where I lose you.

    I think the LR2 lease is out of whack with the market and just because the loaded X3 is higher on paper, mid 40's to 40 for the LR2, but it's lease price is affordable and the LR2's is not, doesn't that simply make the LR2 a bad deal? Aren't they just asking too much money because they are a smaller company? Shouldn't be because it is a much better car or a much better value?
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    Land Rover is never going to sell as many cars in the world as BMW. You can define success in more ways then just sales volume. Land Rover has one factory in Sollihul and shares a factory with Jaguar in Halewood. BMW has many, many more factories then Land Rover and produces so many more types of vehicles that Land Rover will never be able to match the incentives that BMW uses.

    The entire market has become addicted to incentives of one type or another and Land Rover does not typicaly offer much in the way of incentives. We push to sell the cars on their own merits without a ton of support. Check any of the Land Rover lease question forums and the Land Rover leases are always very high.

    If you are interested in getting a LR2 just buy it instead of leasing it. If you only lease cars then frankly Land Rovers are probably not a vehicle you should be considering because they do not normally have the leasing support that other European makes do. There are some cars you should buy and some you should lease and the LR2 is a car you should buy.

    I would never advise someone to buy any BMW because they give them away on the lease side with incentives that don't apply to normal retail sales. The entire reason BMW came out with the ultimate service plan was to help protect their investment in lease vehicles that were returning. Then you have the Full Circle program that requires BMW dealers to retain X% of lease returns for sale at their original dealership.

    By doing that they force the dealers to shoulder a signficant portion of the cost when it comes to selling off lease BMWs. It also helps prop up residual values.

    A LR2 with no money down financed over 60 months using the 4.9% interest rate is around 790-800 a month with taxes.

    A X3 with similar equipment and using all of the same terms is nearly 970 a month with taxes.

    Looks like the LR2 is the better value unless you just HAVE to lease a car.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,010
    Here's one story - can't answer your "Why is that" question:

    "Apparently Range Rover drivers are content with their vehicles. The Range Rover took the 2006 Prestige SUV category in R.L. Polk's annual Automotive Loyalty Awards. The award recognizes manufacturers for superior loyalty performance. Loyalty is determined when a household that owns a new vehicle returns to purchase or lease another new vehicle of the same model or make."

    Ford.com

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    Yeah the Range Rover as a vehicle has the highest repeat customer base in the industry. Land Rover over all is more middle of the pack but that should rise now that they have all new vehicles in the market place.
  • patroverpatrover Posts: 2
    The LR2 has only been out a few weeks and are selling pretty consistently. Until they start to pile up, there will be no major incentive to lease them out cheaply as BMW is doing. Land Rover has always played the supply and demand card very close to the vest, which makes you think they know what they are doing by not overincentivizing an LR2 lease at this point.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Posts: 2,197
    In fact, I was quite suprised to see the 4.9% X 60 offered.
  • muddyymuddyy Posts: 60
    Some of this discussion is about buying what makes you happy even though the cost doesn't (make you happy). I leased a 2003 FL from LR for $399/month and was looking forward to the LR2 becasue I wanted a better car with better features and I like Land Rovers (personal taste). I don't care what anyone else thinks of Land Rover's so called "reputation" but I do care about over paying because of opportunism rather than value. So when I heard the LR2 was being developed I was hoping it would still be an "economical" LR as the Freelander was. But I have to tell you when I looked back on the launch of the RR Sport and it's pricing I knew the LR2 was going to be very expensive (for it's category) and it is.

    At approx. $650/month for a lease price and 4.9 for 60 months purchase, that's eventually $50,000 you will pay for a $39,000 car over 5 years (and that monthly payment is higher than the lease) sorry, these are all bad numbers and bad deals.

    2003 Freelander cost: $30,000 Lease: $399/month
    2007 LR2 cost: $39,000 Lease: $650/month
    2007 BMW X3 cost: $42,000 Lease: $490/month

    They're right when they say the LR2 has nothing in common with the old Freelander.
    But if you can afford it, great for you. I must be growing old school, I can actually remember when cars were an important purchase but they didn't break the bank, and they certainly were not the most expensive financial burden behind your house mortgage or your rent... they are now.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    I think you are confusing lease expense with vehicle expense.

    The Sport is not expensive for its category. It is less then a comparable equiped X5, less then a comparable equipped Cayenne and less then a comprable Toruag.

    The LR2 is less then a comparable equiped X3. There is no way you are going to get a X3 with the equipment a top spec LR2 has for 42,000. You are going to have a MSRP well over 45,000. When I speced out a X3 at BMW's site it was just shy of 49,000 USD when equiped like the top in LR2.

    Yes they lease for more then their competitors but I have already explained why that is. Historicaly speaking towards the end of the model yeal Land Rover will throw some support behind the lease to clear out left over models but that is all you get. If you want the best deal and don't mind waiting till the end of the model year then go that route.
  • muddyymuddyy Posts: 60
    Well, no, I'm comparing a loaded BMW X3 to a loaded LR2, lease price. BMW X3 loaded $490/month, this is in writing from a dealer in a showroom (in other words I know it's loaded and I know it's a real price because I was there); loaded LR2 $650/month, also from a dealer. That's a huge difference in my book.

    I also think the RR Sport is expensive and the lease is high, and it's cash price is more expensive than even the high end 4.8i BMW X5 which starts at $54,500; the RR Sport starts at $57,950, and it's right on the front page of their websites so I don't know how you can say the Sport is less than the X5, it's clearly not.

    But that's not even my point, which is that the LR2 cannot be considered an economical LR like the Freelander was and it is not even in the same price category as the BMW X3 though for comparison most reviewers see them as one in the same. They may be, performance and size wise, but not lease price; the LR2 is in the next class up; and that's a huge disappointment imho.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,671
    Give it a few months.... Every car that first comes out has lousy lease deals..

    As noted above, the Freelander actually had some pretty good lease deals in the '03 model year. Give the LR2 some time, and you'll probably see lease deals on them, as well..

    They may not have to sell a lot of them, but the $40K price range is pretty big leasing territory... They will at least have to come up with something reasonable, at some point.

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • muddyymuddyy Posts: 60
    Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for.
  • bg54bg54 Posts: 21
    When Purchasing or leasing a Land Rover/LR2 OR Freelander DO your consumer Research.. Do NOT buy off of Hype .. Consumers must know of ALL THE mechanical problems that have been a part of the Rovers in the past 4 years. From the Range Rover to the Freelander. In 2006 all 3 were AT the top of the Worse SUV's for 2006 for having problems. This is documented via the web sites, comsumer complaints, Edmunds under Freelander and Rover in consumer complaints. Saying the LR2 HAS NOTHING in common with the Freelander is NOT true, when it has the same electrical and engine as the Freelander and Transmission. The Transmission was replaced in 2004. Maybe not all parts but it still has some of the same genics as the Freelander. Being told it is being built in a AWARD winning plant means nothing.. Look at the problems JAGUAR was having in 2006, by bring up Jaguar comments on Edmunds. Please don't hype qaulity when it is not there to mislead consumers into purchasing. Until the LR2 has been out on the Market for over 2 years and complaint are minimal, is when to believe the past has been corrected by FORD/ROVER. Until then I would wait and see on their reliability prior to purchasing. BMW .. can BRAG... But they also always test drive the BMW for a couple of years, to get the bugs out, and not throw it into the market with problems.

    The ROVERS have lost their Bragging Badge for a couple years..

    B Gant
  • verdugoverdugo Posts: 1,987
    B,

    Good job on not using the CAPS so much. You can actually read your posts now ;-) Also try to put in a return in there every once in a while.

    I don't think it's a bad idea to wait a bit to buy a LR2, but then again it's always better to buy ANY model after it's been out a year if you can wait.

    I'm very interested in the LR2. I'm waiting until the end of the year -- not because I'm afraid of LR's reliability, but b/c I want them to work out any first-year gremlins. Hopefully there'll be some cool additions next year as well.

    Having said that, I will repeat again what everybody has already said, the LR2 does NOT have the same engine as the Freelander. They don't share a single piece in common. Where are you getting your information?
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    Unless the X3 had a MSRP of $48,000 in change then it was not a comparable vehicle to a loaded LR2. That is what a X3 with all the options that a loaded LR2 has costs in terms of MSRP. The X3 is a more expensive car but BMW is subvening the lease to make it appear less expensive. I have already explained why the LR2 is not going to be like that. It is a brand new vehicle and it makes no sense for Land Rover to throw incentives behind it.

    Additionaly you can't compare a Base X5 to a Sport as the X5 doesn't even come standard with Nav. To get all of the stuff you get in a 61,000 dollar Sport on the X5 you would have a MSRP of nearly 68,000 dollars.

    A 61,000 dollar sport is the most common price and comes with Nav, all around PDC, adjustable air suspension( I don't think you can even get adjustable air suspension in the X5, luxury interior, heated front and rear seats and a heated windshield also not avaliable on the X5. Oh and a Center Console mini-fridge also not avaliable in the X5.

    All of that is leaving out all of the extra 4WD hardware that is standard no the Sport and not even avaliable on the X5.

    You have to compare like to like with different brand vehicles you can't just compare the base model of one to the base model of another unless they have similar equipment levels.

    Land Rover is not going to price a car down in the freelander range anytime soon. They know that they cannot compete down at that price and volume level so they are just not going to market anything at that level.
  • bg54bg54 Posts: 21
    If you go on the Jaguar Edmunds, the Rover, the Freelander 2
    and Freelander.. You are reading NOTHING POSITIVE what so ever.. It is all ABOUT LAW SUITS and how FORD/LAND ROVER has not supported their products when all were failing. You will read and see the tempers are above RAGE with Rover and Ford. I could post many, but go to the last page where it starts todays date and read. FORD/ROVER HAS NO
    respect for the consumers who purchased their LEMMONS, and
    refuse to compensate them for the BAD PRODUCT. LAW SUITS
    are not starting to form. DO YOU really want to take a chance on a company that HAS NOT SUPPORTED it product?

    B Gant
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    I could post many ...

    Yes, but then we'd be repeating ourselves and repetition isn't particularly effective.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • verdugoverdugo Posts: 1,987
    Vinnie,

    You have a LR2, right? Does it come with auto-dimming mirror?

    Thx,

    Angel
  • vinnieg1vinnieg1 Posts: 53
    Yes. I believe it came with the li8ghtn package.
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