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Toyota Yaris Real-World MPG

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Comments

  • violinviolin Posts: 20
    I won't correct you.
  • wave54wave54 Posts: 209
    Unless a car is flex-fuel capable, I believe it can't safely run on anything more than a 10% ethanol blend. E85, with 85% ethanol, will drop fuel economy significantly (20-30%) and should be priced accordingly. In Brazil, E85 is 1/3 less than regular gasoline.

    I live in CT and all stations switched from MTBE to 10% ethanol some time ago. Gas mileage shouldn't suffer any more than 5% -- still 1.5 to 2 mpg with an economy car. No discounts due to the complexity of blending ethanol into the gas -- it can't be piped -- must be blended at each terminal.
  • jrlncjrlnc Posts: 48
    I have a Honda Fit and get great mileage, but my state (NC) is not yet using ethanol. Others who live in ethanol blend states appear to be getting 20% worse fuel economy with the same model.

    The dirty little secret is that ethanol is actually MORE polluting, costs more to the consumer, takes government subsidies (which adds to our cost), and give poorer fuel economy. I also don't like the idea that ethanol is produced using precious farmland, water, fertilizer, etc. There is something terribly wrong with the whole idea.
  • ronald711ronald711 Posts: 44
    Well I just bought an automatic sport sedan, it had 46 miles on it when the dealer filled it up, I drove 409 miles at 10.032 gallons to refill it up, that is about 40.7 MPG. I am very much impressed, and the car is not even broken in. and that included some air and city driving. So will see what a few more fill up's yield, but Im very happy. I ran it down to the last bar on the gas gauge, which odly enough once it hit that last segment it was flashing like once a second, which the manual said it would start out slow, but to me that was pretty fast, so I filled up shortly after, but only got 10 gallons in, next time I will drive atleast another 20 to 25 miles once it starts flashing just so I build my comfort zone with the low fuel warning light this car has.
  • reddroverrreddroverr Posts: 509
    Jeezuz H, really? Can it be that bad with the small amount blended in? with all the controversy about how much energy it takes to make the ethanol, it does seem like a great red herring.
  • bob104bob104 Posts: 94
    I've seen estimates of 1.5%-3% reduction in mpg using E10, 10% ethanol blend, with the higher figure being the one I trust. That's about a 1 mpg loss. Ethanol produces less energy than gasoline, gallon per gallon. Similarly diesel produces about 10% more energy, partly accounting for the higher mpg of diesel cars. E85 seems to produce about a 10-15% reduction in mpg, but, as someone commented, it is necessary to have a flex-fuel vehicle to use it. The lower energy in ethanol is due to the partially oxidized bond that defines it as an alcohol rather than an alkane. Think of it as an alkane/alkene that has already been partly burned.

    I am not thrilled with ethanol. In Brazil, it means converting rainforest to monoculture sugar cane production. Worldwide it means using food for transportation, much of it unnecessary transportation.

    Also, ethanol probably costs more energy to produce than it gives off. It's made relatively inexpensive due to massive farm subsidies that politicians are addicted to.

    Get a small car, drive less and carpool. Get an electric bike. Mine averages 23 mph with moderate pedalling and gets about 2000 mpg. True cost to operate is 3 cents a mile vs. about 45 cents a mile for Yaris. I substitute 3000 miles a year of car travel with my LAFree Sport. The LAFree Lite is very good too.

    In reporting mpg it's a good idea to fill the tank first oneself, recording the odometer reading, then refilling the tank, noting the gallons used and the miles covered. Several tanksful using this method will give a very accurate report, especially when driving conditions are noted: city/hwy, a/c use, driving style, etc.
    Bob
  • reddroverrreddroverr Posts: 509
    thanks bob104, informative post.

    Most of the analysis I've seen says that it takes less energy to make ethanol than it uses. Estimates vary quite a bit, though.

    Bicycles are great if you don't mind taking your life in your hands. In Portland Oregon, realistically, I am not going to be using one outside of summer. Too much rain and cold for me.

    My biggest hope involves the plug in hybrid, which rumor has it toyota will manufacture a prius with this feature in 2008-9. There are also add-on firms modifying cars to be plug in.

    We are also supposed to start seeing clean diesel cars in the next couple years as well.

    At any rate, we have a 56 cent tax on ethanol imports, which seems rather dumb. Better to sent the money to the middle east?
  • randydriverrandydriver Posts: 262
    I am a Chevrolet Aveo owner and my mileage dropped alot when they change to the summer blend of gas we get...which is ethenol blend. My city mpg went from 31-32 down to 27..and I am a slow driver with a 5-speed. When I am visiting my parents in the east part of the state where they dont use ethenol I get much better mileage. I have tried this 3 times to be sure it wasnt my imagination.
  • bob104bob104 Posts: 94
    Yes, Portland is pretty rainy. I don't ride in the rain either, but we don't have much here in San Luis Obispo, CA.

    There's a great article in a recent Popular Mechanics about 10 energy solutions. One of them is the plug-in hybrid. The bit of technology that helps make this work is the lithium battery. It has about 3 times the capacity of lead-acid and about 50% more than the current standard, nickel metal dihydride. But the efficiency isn't much better overall than gasoline. The advantage is that you can "fill er up" with domestic electricity derived of wind, hydro, solar or, er, nuke. All of them have their own problems and costs. The only free ride is in the empty seats in American cars. That's why I like my 2000 mpg electic-bike. In the future cars that can tow a trailer will not be used to pick up a quart of milk. Vehicles will be tuned to driving needs: ebikes for commuting (2000 mpg-equivalent), small 30-mph electric cars for neighborhood travel (150 mpg-equivalent), efficiently powered conventional and diesel subcompacts (50-60 mpg).

    Clean diesels do seem to be coming down the pike, lead by Europe's need to clean up their smog. Not sure they'll ever get clean enough for California. I believe the VW Lupo gets up to 80 mpg.

    NEWS FLASH: The current issue of Popular Mechanics rated four subcompacts on their loop track as follows: Yaris, 37; Honda Fit, 35.8; Nissan Versa, 27.8; Kia Rio, 30.3. Sorry, I'm just reporting here: They preferred the Fit overall.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,682
    were they testing the 2007 Toyota Yaris hatchback sold here in the States or the 2007 Toyota Yaris sedan in that current Popular Mechanics issue?

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • bob104bob104 Posts: 94
    I think it was a hatchback. Also, PM has an article on alternative fuels. They calculated ethanol to cost about $2.41 GGE, gallons gasoline equivalent, when gasoline cost $2.14. The graph was very complex, however, so I'm not quite sure what to make of this dated info.
  • reddroverrreddroverr Posts: 509
    Bob,

    I am afraid most americans won't buy in to your vision of the future.

    Not to get long winded, I'll simply say that a vehicle that gets its first 50 miles a day off electric power charged overnight (when demand is slack), greatly reduces our dependence on oil..while costing the consumer less money. A very small percentage of our electricity is derived from oil. If I could get my first 50 electrically, I would very rarely see a gas station. BTW, they also are looking at uploading electricty from cars back into the grid.

    If i recall, the Yaris tested was a sedan s. not that i would bet my life on my memory.

    SLO used to be a nice sleepy town. I bet it is overrun now. no?
  • bob104bob104 Posts: 94
    It's true that Americans are by and large a stubborn bunch and seem willing to go to war for petroleum rather than drive sane cars. They won't buy them willingly, but when gasoline is $10 a gallon (next summer?) they will be forced to go efficient. The technologies I outline are the likely way we'll go by my best reckoning.

    SLO is still kinda sleepy. Not too overrun as we have a growth cap of 2.3%. You can get a nice-ish 3/2 home here for $800,000. Knockdowns start at about $550,000 for a 2/1, no garage. But it's the perfect town for ebiking.

    Anyway, thanks to all for on this list for our common sense when it comes to cars.
    Bob
  • bob104bob104 Posts: 94
    Sorry, I was in a rush and didn't respond to your point about plug-ins. Yes, they will be part of the mix, for sure, especially now that lithium batteries, with triple the energy capacity of lead-acid coming on strong. A bit of arithmetic: 100 lbs of lithium batteries stores about 6 hp for an hour, or 36 hp for 10 minutes. That would take you around town at 25 mph in a Neighborhood Electric Vehicle NEV, better known as a golf cart, for about an hour. Not bad. Each 100 pounds reduces mpg by 1% in a conventional car, so the hybrid concept might not be too bad an idea. It's making a car that is JUST strong enough for the highway but light enough for city efficiency that will be the hard trick requiring a new traffic culture. Regards,Bob
  • reddroverrreddroverr Posts: 509
    Bob, I replied over here:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f0b7a1b/40

    too off topic for this board. I got redressed for talking diesel here once before.
  • rodnreelrodnreel Posts: 13
    City HWY MPG
    35% 65% 33.7
    40% 60% 33.6
    25% 75% 35.8
    25% 75% 35.8
    20% 80% 35.9
    25% 75% 35.5
    25% 75% 35.0
    25% 75% 36.0
    25% 75% 37.1

    I have a Liftback and have been running the AC quite a bit. I'm usually driving 75-80 MPH on the HWY. As you can see my mileage keeps improving.
  • reddroverrreddroverr Posts: 509
    good notes R n R.
  • jsoarjsoar Posts: 4
    I just did my first fill-up on my new LB with manual transmission. I don’t know if the dealer topped off the tank completely or at what milage. It had 22 miles when I got it. But it appears that I got about 42 mpg. It was 95% open road driving at around 50 to 55 mph, no AC running, 10% ethanol. I’m in the flat lands of the mid-west, and in no hurry anymore. I expect it to get better when broken in. I’m pleased.
  • cohencoycohencoy Posts: 3
    I have the same problem! I'm just so pissed about it too! I got the car on 6/12. My first two tanks were exclusively city driving (HOU, TX) which means lots of bumper to bumper traffic and some stretches of 60+ mph. So both of those tanks were 23 miles per gallon! WTF is that about? :confuse: on Monday I drove to Austin going close to 80 the whole way plus some hwy driving there and got 30 miles per gallon...I filled it up tonight and for the first time was able to put 11 gallons in and my trip meter said 330 miles. What is the problem? Granted, it is very hot and the A/C is blowing cold and the ipod is playing, but still....is there something wrong with mine? :cry:
    BTW,I'm in Drive, I do not have the parking break on, I'm not towing anything, nor am I loaded down with stuff.
    What gives?! Is mine just a :lemon: ???
  • lucynethellucynethel Posts: 81
    To add insult to injury......I just sold my 5 month old Chrysler PT Cruiser with 800 (HUNDRED!) miles on it to buy this Yaris! I had the 4 cyl., NON turbo 5 speed stick on my PT. Got 18-20 MPG in mixed driving. Car had SOUL that's missing on my Yaris. Also had POWER etc. But I was cheap. And I wanted that Toyota "PIECE OF MIND" back! I also watched Motorweek who said they got a "FINE 36 MPG IN MIXED DRIVING" with their test car. Then, my Popular mechanics came.....37 MPG in mixed driving. Now? I am simply MIXED UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And a bit fed up too. :sick:
  • apriljoyapriljoy Posts: 3
    I did not top off the Yaris with gas when I took delivery of it so I didn't do any calculations with that tank. Next tank I made sure to set the trip meter to zero and then drove until my tank was less than half full (according to the gas gauge). I have the Yaris Sedan, A/T

    1st tank -- 30.1 MPG (100% A/C, 80% City/20% Freeway)
    2nd tank -- 34.2 MPG (60% A/C, 80% City/20% Freeway)

    I've read on another Yaris forum that it depends on how you drive your Yaris. My Yaris prefers going 80 mph on the freeway. I've toned it down to 70 mph with some sections where I go 75 mph.
  • earthearth Posts: 76
    I get a kick out of those that know exactly how much city, and how much highway they drive. Do you guys actually measure the city driving, than the highway driving miles, than do some additional math or such ?

    I have a 2006 Honda EX Coupe, Auto trans, with Nav, and only drive the city. No highway driving period. I got about 25 mpg when brand new, and now get 26.7 miles per gallon with 3,000 miles on it, and use the air part of the day in a lot of stop, and go traffic. Was thinking of the Yaris at one point, but will hold off my next purchase until a better hybrid car comes along.

    Your gas mileage will improve over time, but its a dissapointment for those that are getting about what I get
  • reddroverrreddroverr Posts: 509
    Part of it may be the "summer blend" or ethanol. Look upthread a bit to see some folks complaints.
  • lucynethellucynethel Posts: 81
    Personally I am VERY aware of that AND the EPA "dream" numbers. But 10-11 MPG diffeance? Wish I kept my PT Cruiser that had "soul", POWER, COMFORT, safety, style and just so much more......Now, IF my numbers change to 30 PLUS on city ONLY driving, all will be forgiven. But otherwise, this car is just another SAD mistake. (For ME!)
    Mike
  • apriljoyapriljoy Posts: 3
    Mine is an estimate. I mainly do city driving so I make a note on a notepad in my car when I do go on the freeway/highway and how many miles I use. From there I just calculate the percentage.

    When I'm driving around town and it's not too hot outside (over 90 degrees needs A/C during some parts of the day) I have the windows down. Once I get on the freeway I roll up my windows. I think one of the biggest reasons my MPG has improved was I used the A/C less on the second tank.
  • cohencoycohencoy Posts: 3
    I have to say that I think it is complete BS that running the AC would reduce mpg by 10. I just don't buy that. also, I realize that real world mpg are never going to match the company line's perfect course ideal circumstances, but still, 10 mpg off is a bit extreme!

    Also the ethanol laced gas is a load of hooey. even if we are...which I seriously doubt...it wouldn't be that high of a percentage, so it would not be reducing my mpg this dramatically.

    I'm pissed and my dealership will be hearing about it until I see an improvement. :lemon:
  • wave54wave54 Posts: 209
    I own a small 4-cyl A/T (Aveo) and the difference between my best highway mileage and congested, block-to-block city driving with AC on can indeed be 10 MPG.

    I think it's the nature of the beast. A low horsepower engine with an automatic getting up to speed with AC drawing some of that power is lousy for gas mileage. A more powerful 6 or 8-cyl doesn't strain as much in the city and shows less of a drop in mileage.
  • lucynethellucynethel Posts: 81
    My 1st tank in almost all city stop & go=27.3 MPG.
    My 2nd tank in ALL stop & go city-26.7 MPG. My car is the 3 door liftback auto trans. This car SUCKS with numbers like this! I also only used the a/c about 50-60% of the time. I DO understand summer fuel blends etc, but I want my "REAL" car back!

    Look for mine going up for sale on San Diego Craiglist! I am NOT kidding either.....
    Mike
  • emeliaemelia Posts: 4
    Liftback automatic:
    Driving in WI where gas prices are $3.17

    first tank- about 33 mpg
    second tank- about 34 mpg
    third tank- about 33 mpg
    fourth tank- about 37 mpg

    However, we made the dumb mistake of driving in 3rd gear for about the first week, buzzing along on the highways. I was so upset at first until I realized our mistake (thanks to another Yaris forum here).
  • lucynethellucynethel Posts: 81
    Does this mean you are mostly HIGHWAY?
    -ALSO, you should never use overdrive "in town" as it is hard on brakes AND the transmission. You probably know this already (?), but just checking as a retired Service Manager....

    Sure wish I had your results! Now I have Yaris envy.....
    Mike :-)
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