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2007 Toyota Camry Problems and Repairs

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Comments

  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    How do you know, decide, which additives have a positive effect/result, vs NEGATIVE, or even neutral...?

    "...alcohol is a cleaner, not a lubricant.."

    I have often used gasoline as a "cleaner", even better than alcohol, does that mean I shouldn't be fueling my cars with same....?
  • djm2djm2 Posts: 705
    By a cleaner, I mean that the fuel is "DRY" in that it lacks a lubricant, like the old fuel that had lead! ----- Without a "lubricant, " carbon will stick to the underside of valves and in the grooves of the pistons. ----- Without a "lubricant" valve seats will be eaten away. ---- Gasoline is used to cool the "in tank fuel pump," and a lubricant in the gasoline will help to lubricate that pump! ----- When you run the tank low on fuel, you damage the pump. ---- A pump should last 100,000 miles. DO NOT use gasoline as a cleaner. TOO dangerous! ---- Best regards. ----Dwayne :shades:
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    Hi Dwayne;

    As you've probably noticed, I share your appreciation for intelligently selected additives, but I did want to add a few comments about alcohol, carboned ring grooves, and high temperature sludge.

    Although alcohol does not have the self lubricating qualities of gasoline, and when added to gasoline, does undesirable things to fuel economy; it also offers several redeeming virtues. One is that it adds oxygen to the combustion, which causes blended fuels to burn cleaner than straight gasoline. The oxygenation reduces carbon monoxide emissions, and ALSO REDUCES THE AMOUNT OF CARBON DEPOSITS IN THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER. Alcohol used in fuel also acts as a cooling agent; which enables the use of higher compression ratios or greater spark advance without inducing preignition.

    I agree with your observation that carbon deposits are a much greater problem when using oxygenated fuels than they were with the old non-reformulated gasoline; but the additional carbon deposits do not come from the alcohol. Instead; the carbon results from specific additives which are used in fuel as lead substitutes; to protect the valve seats and to provide additional lubrication. The phenomenon of spark plugs coming out all black with carbon appeared shortly after unleaded fuel came into regular use in the late 1970s; long before alcohol was being added to fuel. Although I deplore the widespread use of alcohol as an oxygenating agent; I am at least happy that the industry acknowledged the health danger of the MTBE which was promoted by Chevron as an alternative oxygenating agent. So I think it is important to not give alcohol a bad rap for something it doesn't really do. I much prefer to lose 10% fuel economy than to be exposed to yet another carcinogen. (Of course; alcohol is also a carcinogen; but it is apparently less of one).

    The sludge which has become an engine problem in the last ten years is quite the opposite of the sludge which used to be found in engines of the 1950s that were using non-detergent oil; or the sludge found in more recent engines which never had their oil changed. These older types of sludge were formed as a result of engines that were rarely driven far enough to thoroughly warm up the oil and boil off the contaminants; but with the use of detergent oil, these contaminants are normally trapped by and suspended in the oil, and then periodically removed by regular oil changes and filter replacements.

    But the late model sludge is called "high temperature sludge." This sludge is created when engine oil comes in direct contact with very hot objects. The cooling systems in late model engines have been redesigned to decrease the amount of heat lost to the radiator; in order to speed the warm up process and to improve vaporization of the incoming fuel mixture (in order to further reduce emissions and increase fuel economy). In some engines; this has resulted in local hot spots in cylinder heads; where the lubricating oil is exposed to higher temperatures than it previously encountered. And this hot contact can cook the oil and generate sludge from the oil breakdown. The solution for this problem has been for engineers to again redesign the cylinder heads; to eliminate the hot spots and even out the temperature. But those of us who own vehicles produced during the learning curve have an ongoing problem with high temperature sludge. Hey; ain't that a great motivating force to move people to buy newer models?
  • djm2djm2 Posts: 705
    Good Morning zaken1:

    YOUR POSTING WAS OUTSTANDING! ------ Kindly be advised that I was not trying to to blame the carbon on the alcohol! ------ I was just trying to give some reason why using HIGH QUALITY additives could be beneficial to both the performance and the longevity of the automotive engine.

    Every Sunday I make it a point to check all the fluids on both vehicles in preparation for the week's activities. The Camry now has 63, 100+ miles and when I pulled the dip stick to check the oil, the oil film on the stick is as clean as the first day that I took delivery of the vehicle in January of 2007. ----- This is the way it should be on any vehicle, but I would doubt that it would be in that state, if I changed my oil and filter every 5,000 miles, as suggested by the manufacturer. ------ When I owned the 2003 4 cylinder Honda Accord, the recommended oil and filter change was every 10,000 miles, but the recommended interval by the dealer was 3,750 miles. (What does the dealer know about "real world usage" that the manufacturer does not know?) ------ (I would love to pull the dip stick of an Accord that has been given 10,000 mile oil and filter service at 63,000+ miles!) ----- As stated in previous posting, when I purchase a vehicle I put 100,000 mile "top of the line manufacturer's extended warranty" from the dealer, and I give the vehicle outstanding service. ----- Once I get to 100,000 miles, I trade the vehicle because I do not want to finance an expensive repair, such as a transmission, but at the same time, I want the vehicle to perform at 100% up to that point!

    Alcohol in the fuel, in the marine industry, is a disaster! ----- Boat owners have problems with plastic / fiberglass tanks dissolving, and this material being carried into the fuel system! ----- There are also engine problems associated with this fuel tank issue. (Some boats have aluminum tanks so this problem does not exist. But on the other side of the issue, water and alcohol in fuel, in an aluminum tank, can cause electrolysis.) ---- In addition, long periods of storage over the winter, due to moisture in the surrounding air, causes "phase separation" in the fuel tank. ----- (The gasoline and the alcohol & water separate.) ----- Additives are poured into the tank, prior to storage, to help to prevent this action from occurring! ----- Outboard Motors are affected more that an inboard engine with regards to the quality of the fuel. ----- Marine fuel suppliers have recognized this problem by developing a fuel know as Valve-tec which is nothing more than additives and a lubricant in the fuel.

    The subject of "oil and filter" service will be a debate for as long as automobiles are on this earth. Everyone has an opinion about the "best oil," service intervals, and every manufacturer has their own personal recommendations. ----- But there is a bottom line to the entire process. 1.) The owner needs to give their vehicle high quality service to keep it running at peak efficiency during the period of ownership, ----- 2.) The owner needs to protect their investment in terms of the original and the extended warranty, ----- 3.) The owner needs to recognize that the manufacturer is going to look for any reason not to honor their warranty "if" they can prove owner abuse. ---- (If the owner of the vehicle changes the engine oil at 5,000 mile intervals, as recommended by the manufacturer, and the engine develops sludge, the manufacturer is going to blame the owner of the vehicle for neglect, and as such, they will not honor the extended warranty.) ------ When this happens, the owner of the vehicle is responsible for the cost of the repairs. The cost of an engine this could range from $5,000.00 to $10,000 dollars. An oil and filter change costs me $40.00 at the dealer with the BG additive. Let's assume that a replacement engine for the Camry would be about $7,500.000 dollars. If I change my oil and filter every 2,500 miles in 63,000 miles, I have changed my oil about 25 times at a cost of $1000.00 dollars. (In 100,000 miles it will have cost me $1,600.00 dollars.) This maintenance keeps my engine clean and keeps my warranty in good standing! ------- I guess it is a personal thing! ------- Best regards to all. ------- Dwayne
  • canccanc Posts: 715
    This is a very informative post; thank you. So, I'm assuming that the Camry is a "late model engine which has been redesigned (...)". I noticed that the warm-up process for my Camry, even though I'm in Canada where the cold winters can be brutal on some days, my car heats up in NO time. Where a car would take about 5 minutes of driving to warm up, mine does it in 2. I often drive less than a mile for it to reach the halfway mark on my temp gauge.

    So when did this learning curve end exactly, or is it still going on?
  • djm2djm2 Posts: 705
    Hi Canc:

    I know many people on this board are going to disagree with me, but on "cold winter mornings," I start my vehicle, and let it warm up while I remove the ice from the windows. ---- I have decided a long time ago, that I would not drive a vehicle in the cold weather, until I get some heat from the heating system. ---- Since I have a six speed automatic transmission, and I can operated it in the manual mode, I only allow it to shift to the 3rd gear while driving on the city streets. ----- Once the engine temperature reaches "normal operating temperature" I place the transmission selector into full automatic, and enter the highway! ----- This works for me! ----- Best regards. ------ Dwayne.
  • wwwest:

    Re: Dealer Discontinuing BG Service for Toyotas

    My indicating that GoodYear continues to offer BG SERVICE for ALL makes of vehicles goes to support the probability that BG servicing may, in fact, still be considered for maintaining longevity of the vehicle; my statement should not be construed as a contradiction of the Dealers' inability to offer this service.

    I am simply requesting Forum members to share their knowledge, or experience, towards commenting on the use, or non-use, of the BG System as administered by Toyota Dealerships; it would be helpful, here, if Readers not utilize my observation, that GoodYear continues to offer BG Service, to preclude them from providing useful responses to my initial inquiry.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Goodyear, or Firestone will sell/HYPE ANYTHING that has a hefty profit margin.

    Most worthless, "snake oil" type products do.
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    I believe the learning curve ended recently for a few proactive manufacturers; and it is still going on for others. Please do not ask me to specify which companies have completed their education. I am not privy to that level of detail.
  • djm2djm2 Posts: 705
    edited March 2011
    Hi All: --------------------- Both my Chevrolet & Toyota dealer use and recommend the complete line of BG products. ----- I have used the BG / MOA oil additive at every oil and filter change since the Camry was new, and it now has 63,300+ miles. ------- My engine is quiet, smooth, powerful and sludge free. ---- It does not use "oil" between oil and filter changes every 2,500 miles. (Some engines on these boards use oil every 1,000 miles!) ----- I think BG makes some quality products, but the choice of whether or not to use them in your vehicle is up to you, --- as the owner. --- You have to make an individual choice! ----- (I have only used the oil and fuel additives. -------- I use the fuel additive every 5,000 miles.) The oil on the dip stick is as clean today as when I took delivery of the vehicle. The dealers do not force me to use these additives. It is my choice! The decisions is yours! ----------- NOTE: ------ I have started to use the BG/MOA in the oil of the Chevrolet Malibu. I am planning to use this additive at the recommended 5,000 mile oil change intervals. (5,000 - 10,000 - 15000- 2000 - etc) ---- At the 2,500 mile oil and filter changes, "in-between", I will just use the recommended oil.

    Best regards. ------------ Dwayne :shades: ;)
  • kenkat1kenkat1 Posts: 1
    Hello to all ; I am new to edmunds forum. I am desperate to resolve the oil use prob w/07 Camry 2.4. We bought it new and chg oil faithfully every 3000 miles. It has incremently increased its oil consunption to 1.2 qts in 2300 mls and the car has only 41700 mls on it! Canc; I am totally w/you I will never buy another Toy if they don't fix this one. kenkat1
  • sumnercsumnerc Posts: 12
    use of BG/MOA is only for cars using regular oil, never synthtic like mobil 1.
    Different cars consume oil no matter what anywhere fron 1 quart for each 1,500-2300 miles this is normal.
  • canccanc Posts: 715
    Hi Kenkat1,

    Sadly, I've done quite a bit of research on this topic and we are far from being alone. I'm also concerned that as the car gets older, the oil consumption will increase. I have to rack up about 3000 kms. now before my dealer sends the results to Toyota; has your dealership offered to do anything about your case?
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    One of the less commonly understood details about oil burning is that it can be caused by using an improper driving technique during the break-in period (up to 1,000 miles). Some owners still follow the old, outdated practice of being as easy as possible on the motor during the first 1,000 miles. Sixty or more years ago, this was good practice; as motor oils were not as good as they now are, and piston rings were not as durable as they now are, so avoiding excess heat and load was appropriate.

    However; this has all changed over the years: Todays motors are very precisely machined, motor oil now contains very effective anti wear additives, and the use of hard chromed piston rings has become standardized. These rings are so tough that they need extra loading during break in; so they can wear in to match the finish of the cylinder wall.

    It is still good practice to avoid heavy loads during break in; in order to allow the sliding parts to loosen up gradually; but at the same time; it is necessary to periodically put enough extra pressure on the piston rings for them to seat properly. If this is not done; an engine can become an oil burner.

    Here's the proven, time tested technique I use to break in a new motor. Always drive gently until the engine oil has reached normal operating temperature (usually after 5 or more miles of driving). Then, spaced out during the first 150 miles; do ten brisk accelerations from 35 to 55 mph. I usually begin these runs when the motor has about 25 miles on it, and start out by using about 1/2 throttle, but progressively increase the amount of throttle, until using about 3/4 throttle by the time the motor has 150 miles on it. Besides the ten acceleration runs, I do not otherwise drive aggressively; BUT I ALSO DO NOT USE CRUISE CONTROL DURING THE BREAK IN PERIOD. It is important to vary the speed by at least 10 mph frequently; in order to allow the engine to operate under a wider range of loads, and occasionally to permit extra oil to be drawn into the cylinder during decelleration. This practice is not appreciated by other drivers on the road; but it sure makes a difference in the way the motor runs during its subsequent lifetime.

    Another important tip is to carry in the car a quart of the same brand and weight of oil that was originally put in the motor. That way, you won't be forced to add a different brand of oil if it needs a quart during the break in (or at any other time).

    New motors cannot use most brands of synthetic oil during break in. The reason for this is that synthetic oil is so slippery and has such high wear resistance that it will prevent the piston rings from seating if used during the first 5,000 miles. Mobil 1 is the only synthetic that can safely be used during break in.

    I also would not tow a trailer, drive at speeds over 60 mph, or climb a long, steep uphill grade (especially not in hot weather) for at least the first 500 miles.
  • Here is my experience with 2007 4cyl. Toyota used a rubber connector for the oil line and eventually it disintegrates as any high school kid can tell you. Mine failed and drained all the oil out of the car. Luckily or not (depending on how you look at it) I was alerted by the engine noise and it was fixed ($700). Keep an eye on any oil on your driveway as it may start slow as ours did and then all of a sudden rupture. A toyota mechanic told me that Toyota had tried 3 fixes for this problem. This may not turn out to be a problem for you but I thought I would mention it. Good luck.
  • djm2djm2 Posts: 705
    Good Morning Ledzepplin:

    Kindly be advised that the Toyota Fix for this problem is to replace the "flexible oil line" with a "steel line!" ------- I had this done by the Toyota Dealer under the Extended Warranty, when I read about this problem on this site! --- My vehicle, (2007 V6 XLE), had not yet showed signs of leakage, but I wanted it replaced since I spend many hours on the road, --- and I DID NOT want to experience this failure! ---- (I had to "politely push" them to take this action, but when I used "professional logic" they agreed!) ----- This should have been a "call back on the part of Toyota!" ---- The process of replacing the line took about four hours!

    Best regards. ----------------- Dwayne :shades: ;)
  • I am curious to know if you have had to replace a 2nd or 3rd ignition coil yet...as I've just had my 2nd one replaced...probably about a month after the 1st one went bad. I am pretty upset about it... as my 2007 Camry LE only has about 40k and my husband is threatening to now trade it in. I currently own 3 Toyota's and my previous Camry lasted a very long time so I bought another. I am very concerned that the quality may be slipping. Let me know how yours is doing as I am curious if this is an issue with the cars we purchased or just a fluke. (I am hoping) Thx
  • chuck28chuck28 Posts: 257
    HI, so far I have not had to replace another coil. DO you have a 4 or 6 cylinder. I have a v-6. I think it is unusual for these coils to go bad on any car with low mileage. I am not happy about at all and I too believe the Toyota quality has slipped big time. I was able to replace the coil myself . The part cost me $90 The front coils are a 5 minute job though Toyota wanted $300 for parts and labor.

    I would also let Toyota know about your problem. Maybe they will have a recall one day.

    Keep me updated, thanks
  • djm2djm2 Posts: 705
    Hi All:
    I have never replaced a coil, (or any electronic device), on my 07 V6 XLE Camry, and this vehicle now has almost 64,000 miles. ------ Outside of the "oil line," my vehicle has been "trouble free" since I took delivery, and this line was replaced BEFORE it stated to leak! --------- (Maybe I was just lucky!) ----- I think the Camry is a high quality product.

    Best regards. ---------- Dwayne ;)
  • I am having that problem now with my 07 Toyota Camry....have already replaced 2 of the ignition coils AND all spark plugs....what was your "fix" after all said and done? :-(

    Anna
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