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Where to find E85 flex fuel vehicles ?

spider348spider348 Posts: 2
edited March 15 in Mercedes-Benz
Can anyone recommend a car dealer/salesman who is knowledgeable on flex fuel E85 engines ?
I have made dozens of calls around the west and not one salesperson understands this topic much less wants to help find one.
I am seeking to purchase n E85 sedan (Mercedes C320/240) and pickup (Nissan Titan or GMC/Chevy).
Thanks.

Comments

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    I seriously doubt that anyone on the West Coast is selling FFV. The reason being there is only ONE station for the entire West coast. I checked with them yesterday and the price is now better than unleaded, $3 per gallon vs $3.35 for regular. Unless you live close to downtown San Diego it is not going to do you any good to buy one. This site will give you all the vehicles currently available for E85.

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfueltype.htm

    PS
    As you can see from that list it is consistent that you will get 25% less MPG with E85.
  • spider348spider348 Posts: 2
    Thanks for the info. I am in the West (Rocky Mountain region) and there are a bunch of E85 (4 in my area) and many more proposed to start this year. I hear what you are saying about cost. But again, many more ethanol refinerys coming online in near future. Additional cost and less MPG is OK with me considering the positive environmental and economical impact.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    You might consider a diesel car using B100 also. If you cannot get what you want in a FFV. I imagine that is available in the same locations.
  • They say it costs about $100-200 more a car to build flex-fuel vehicles. Does anybody sell an aftermarket kit to convert a regular car to run on either gasoline or E-85? Im guessing the only difference is a sensor in the fuel system to detect what the car is burning, and some different EFI software to adjust the air/fuel mixture accordingly. This, on my budget, would be way cheaper than buying a new car already equipped to run on either gas or E85
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    Can a vehicle be converted to operate on E85?

    Response:

    This is a common question that is asked of the National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition. Unfortunately, there is no simple answer. In the strictest sense, yes, a vehicle that was designed to operate on unleaded gasoline only could be converted to operate on E85. Realistically, no, a vehicle cannot be converted to operate on E85. Here’s why!

    During the 1980s and early 1990s, many small companies were formed that were altering gasoline powered vehicles to operate on other forms of fuels such as propane, compressed natural gas, 85 percent ethanol, and 85 percent methanol. The marketing program of these conversion companies was based on the premise that it was cheaper to operate a vehicle on alternative fuels. However, the vehicles being converted were engineered, designed and built to operate on unleaded only. Shortly after the emergence of the “conversion firms” the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) determined that when converted from gasoline to another form of fuel, the exhaust emissions from these converted vehicles were often much “dirtier” than prior to conversion. See explanation regarding EPA Memo 1A. The use of alternative fuels in the transportation sector has been built around the objectives of using cleaner, non-gasoline based components.


    http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/faqs/conversion.php
  • All the available FFVs appear to be FUEL GUZZLERS. WHY?

    I would like to be able to choose a Ford Focus wagon FFV or something from another manufacturer that compares in size and mileage. :shades:
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    E85 vehicles are on average 25-30% less fuel efficient than regular gas. E85 has about half the energy of diesel or biodiesel. The best FFV on the market today is the Chevy Monte Carlo. It gets about 19 MPG combined. So far no Flex fuel cars are slated for MY 2007. Only PU trucks and large SUVs. The poor mileage does not look so bad with a PU that gets 15 MPG on gas and 12 MPG on E85. If you want great mileage get a Jetta Diesel. Most owners are getting 45+ MPG. Plus it is a great handling car.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Interesting - Ford has been manufacturing FFV vehicles since about 2000, and offer them on the Taurus, Explorer, Ranger, Focus at least. Of course, Ford never has advertised this, so nobody knows it. Most people who drive them don't even know what the Green FFV logo on the side of the car means, they don't know they could run their car on rubbing alcohol if they chose to. Now, GM, late to the party as always, had converted their SUVs to run on E-85, and are advertising it.

    If you don't like Fords, your choices are limited, unfortunately......
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    If you don't like Fords, your choices are limited

    That is pretty much true. Though Chrysler offered their minivans in 2000 as FFV. GM only had the small PU trucks in 2001. Ford/Mazda has had the most FFVs over the last 7 years. I think with GM they just happened to be on the upswing when the politicians jumped on the alcohol bandwagon.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    And GM advertised it cleverly, like they were the first with it. Actually, they were only the first to Advertise ie..... Another blown opportunity for Ford....
  • lemminglemming Posts: 4
    Are things like the Saturn Vue and Ford Escape able to run on E85 as well as having the hybrid assist.

    After all, both GM and Ford are making their monster trucks with flexfuel capacity(just to muddy the Mileage stats I'm sure)

    I don't want even a small SUV but would do it if it could take the E85. It is clean air I want.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    To find which cars are flex fuel ready go to this website and check it out. No hybrids as of yet. Yes it is a way to get a full size truck rated for 33 MPG to satisfy the CAFE regulations. Unless you live in the Midwest you will have a tough time finding a car for sale or any E85 for sale.

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfueltype.htm
  • lemminglemming Posts: 4
    I can get E85 in the DC metro area, the Federal/Military station up by the Pentagon sells its "clean" fuels to the public.

    What I can't find is a car I want that can use E85.
    Chevy dealers deny any GM sedan has ever been flexfuel(pathetic morons=car salesman) Offered me an Avalanche instead of an Impala.

    Ford says only flexfuels were special made for for fleets. That might be a better story. sigh.

    Now I want a E85/hybrid mix-and I'm guessing that is a long time coming. The manufacturers aren't listening. :mad:
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    Now I want a E85/hybrid mix-and I'm guessing that is a long time coming

    Toyota got enough bad press with the Prius only getting 46 MPG combined when it was rated at 55 MPG. Can you imagine if it was a Flex Fuel it would only get about 32 MPG on E85. That is better than any of the cars available so far for E85. Volkswagen sells 100% Flex Fuel vehicles in Brazil. Maybe you could buy a FF Beetle and have the only one in the DC area.
  • shalwechatshalwechat Posts: 25
    If you want to see info on the Prius go to john1701a.com

    An excellent source on VW TDI's go to tdiclub.com

    A good sorce of info on e85 is e85fuel.com

    A google seach will give a wealth of info on this topic. One need to keep in mind, dispite the enthusiest and the naysayers, all these vehicle segments have good and bad points. Those sites I mention are very helpful and friendly. Some sites even have a network of likeminded owners for one to network with in regards to the vehicle.

    I hope this helps...
  • We can however help you with your ethanol problems. My company provides the Full Flex Gold converter a unit that will allow any vehicle with Multi Point Fuel Injection to run on Ethanol or gas whenever you choose without having to push any buttons or flip any switches. The Full Flex Gold works with microprocessors that automatically adapt to your fuel systems requirements.
    There are no polarity concerns with Full Flex Gold. Our unit simply calculates an ultra fine adjustment which will allow your vehicle to run on any mix of ethanol whether it’s 20% or 100%. Full Flex Gold is designed to be used with any vehicle in good maintenance condition and also in original Flex Fuel vehicles. Full Flex Internationals technical staff that is led by our ASE certified technician Dan Lorenzo is highly qualified to deal with and solve any problem in the area of automotive technology and can make a diagnosis submitted by telephone, e-mail and fax; Alex Conger and Curtis Lacy with their extensive background in marketing and customer service are responsible for any and all information needed for our customers to receive a better understanding of the Full Flex Gold converter. Our web address is www.fullflxint.com Please feel free to stop in and visit the site. We are having our first FULL FLEX GOLD-RUSH Holiday Sale that ends December 21!! We are Knocking 40% off all units and are running out of the Full Flex Gold very fast. So, be sure you get the unit that is right for your vehicle now because we may not have it again until next year.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    Does your company guarantee that the Ethanol will not damage aluminum engine parts? My understanding is that is why Toyota and Honda are dragging their feet on E85 capable cars.
  • When it comes to corrosion E85 can cause damage, since prolonged exposure to high concentrations of ethanol may corrode metal and rubber parts in older engines (pre-1988) designed primarily for gasoline. The hydroxyl on the ethanol molecule is an extremely weak acid, but it can enhance corrosion for some natural materials. For post-1988 fuel-injected engines, all the components are already designed to accommodate E10 (10% ethanol) or higher blends through the elimination of exposed magnesium and aluminum metals and natural rubber and cork gasket parts.Hence, there is a greater degree of flexibility in just how much more ethanol may be added without causing ethanol-induced damage.
    Now we also have a company that provides extended warranties for all flex fuel vehicles and converted vehicles as well. Call us at 866 568-3617
  • Hey,

    I tried to log onto the website (www.fullflxint.com) and it did not exist! :confuse:
  • the website is www.fullflexint.com
  • 88998899 Posts: 1
    Just found this website called afvfinder.com, it currently has a few flexible fuel vehicles and other alternative fuel vehicles in the rocky mountain area.
This discussion has been closed.