Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Toyota Camry Hybrid MPG-Real World Numbers

1252628303134

Comments

  • orly1orly1 Posts: 19
    larsb, you have a lot of posts :) i love camry and toyota in general - except i'm having same problem as mra605 dec 20, 2008, real world LOW MPG with my 7 month old TCH.

    i'm also being told by dealer and toyota customer service that vehicle is "running as it should". my MID displays 26-28 MPG ave.

    i've read a lot on this forum and others and honestly; who in their right mind would pay the extra cost of a TCH if they didn't expect to get EPA estimates or very close to it? to say to mra605 or any one else getting 5-10 MPG less than EPA estimate for TCH that it is "normal" is insulting.

    i am beginning to think these forums are biased/edited (to include only the most glowing reviews). OR toyota is ignoring a very real issue which is a high concern for certain TCH owners.

    this post is not targeted at larsb; simply a reply to last post relating to most recent LOW MPG post (mra605).

    i'm convinced i am driving TCH optimally.

    QUESTION REMAINS: does this forum contain ANY posts where people have had low TCH MPG and the issue was resolved by toyota?

    there was one case where a honda hybrid owner sued over less than EPA - anyone know the outcome?

    thanks
  • cdn_tchcdn_tch Posts: 194
    orly1, please tell us what part of the country you live in because the weather does matter to the overall mileage of any vehicle. As I said in post #814, there are many factors in play when it comes to mileage.

    If you live in a cold(er) climate, the effects are real.
    - If it is cold outside, the ICE needs to run longer before it gets to operating temps that permit mode 3 and mode 4 operation. Worse, once the ICE shuts off, it starts to cool and eventually will need to restart just to keep itself at the proper temps. Since it is cold, you also have the internal heater on. That heat is from the coolant circulating in the block. As you take that heat and blow it inside the cabin, it needs to be replaced by the ICE running.
    - short trips also hurt. In the summer, my ICE is at operating temp within a few blocks, now in the winter I'm pulling into my parking spot and the engine will finally turn off when stopped (6mi)

    My last 2 tank averages were 21.5 & 24.6 mpg, In the summer my averages were around 40. In my Explorer, the summer average was ~18mpg, winter it was ~10.

    The 5-10 mpg less than EPA IS normal in cold(er) climates. It is a result of regulations (emissions over mileage) and physics. Please don't feel insulted by it, it just is that way.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Well, first of all, one cannot successfully "SUE" an auto manufacturer for having a car that does not meet EPA estimates. It's not a guarantee. It's an ESTIMATE.

    And the only way a suit like that would ever succeed is, FIRST, if you could prove that Toyota or the EPA "lied" on a test result- and that could NEVER be proven.

    Another required portion of a successful suit would be to have ZERO CARS of that type which could achieve EPA "estimates" and that also could never be done. An automaker is never going to sell a car of which zero numbers of that car can achieve EPA estimates.

    The most you can hope for, if you have an issue with your car in particular, is to get it declared a "lemon" by an arbitrator. That would require that your dealer and Toyota would have to certify that YES, your car's HSD system is working properly and YES, it is not capable of performing proper hybrid propulsion, which would mean the car IS a lemon.

    The problem with that is that if indeed all the hybrid components ARE performing up to spec, then the CAR WILL INDEED be able to achieve EPA results under at least SOME circumstances.

    I'm almost certain that no one has ever successfully had a hybrid car declared a Lemon because it was not meeting miles per hour requirements.


    So what can I do to help you, you ask?

    First, you should try to find a knowledgeable hypermiler in your area and let them test your car. There are many, MANY variables that go into achieving maximum MPG out of a hybrid car:

    Tire pressure.
    Length of trip.
    Oil type.
    Tire specifications.
    Driving style.
    Temperature during trip.
    Road conditions.
    Weather.

    I've got a story for you. A couple of years ago (maybe 3) I had a local couple contact me and say, "We can't get good mileage out of our Honda Civic Hybrid, and we located you on the Internet and was wondering if you could help?"

    I met them at a local mall. First thing I noticed: They had replaced the OEM tires and rims with low profile tires and custom (heavy) chrome wheels. This immediately meant that they were losing a ton of MPG right there.

    I also noticed that their driving style was completely wrong - they were leadfoots, or at least, they liked to quickly accelerate up to "slightly above the speed limit" as a normal course of affairs.

    I gave them the tips I could, and showed them that with a slightly modified driving style, they could improve their MPG. But those tires knocked 3-5 MPG off their chances right away.

    From experience, I can tell you that the Toyota HSD technology in the TCH is very sound, and very effective when used properly. My personal lifetime average is around 34.1 MPG after 41,000 miles. GH.com has at least 50 owners with as much as 40+ mpg average.

    If your car cannot at least 34 MPG when tested by a local hypermiler, then there is something wrong with the car and Toyota should repair it.

    Good luck, and keep us posted.
  • orly1orly1 Posts: 19
    thanks cdn tch for the information,

    re: driving optimally (i've already considered some or most of these things)

    live in ohio, car in heated apartment garage. rarely use "internal car heater", just front/rear defroster without fan. i turn these off at stops so AS can engage. (otherwise car will stay at 0 MPG)

    as far as ICE working until car heats up - far left dial is past "blue zone" almost immediately (few blocks) and stays almost in middle for the rest of trip. shouldn't that mean TCH is at operating temp?

    MID and dial show battery mode or EV mode engaged, but yes mostly ICE mode.

    5 - 10 MPG variations are acceptable for some drivers, but i bought my TCH expecting very close to EPA estimate (1-2 deviation) and a return on my 29K investment. forums like these with thousands of "meets and exceeds EPA" posts were also an influence - including non-paid endorsements by media.

    whenever someone posts like me here, it seems they get a few responses like those i have received and then nothing....

    at least there is a moderator and i hope NOT to suffer the verbal abuse that is rampant on the john true v.s honda site.

    thanks,
  • cdn_tchcdn_tch Posts: 194
    as far as ICE working until car heats up - far left dial is past "blue zone" almost immediately (few blocks) and stays almost in middle for the rest of trip. shouldn't that mean TCH is at operating temp?

    On another forum, someone recently posted that while it looks like it is at full operating temps, it is still about 20C less than during the summer (70C vs 90C).

    You say your TCH is 7 months old, what was your mileage in the first couple of months?

    Overall, I think you will see your averages start going up with the outside temps in a few months.
  • orly1orly1 Posts: 19
    thanks cdn tch,

    only first tank of gas "met or exceeded" EPA estimates. :mad: after that can sometimes reach 31 MPG tank ave., usually directly after fill up if i take her out on highway with cruise on.

    then next day MPG slowly returns to between 26 -28 and sometimes highway drive won't improve it. :confuse:

    i want to reply to larsb, think he is correct, i might have a lemon :lemon:

    please give me any new ideas. thanks
  • orly1orly1 Posts: 19
    dear larsb,

    thanks for all the posts, read many of them before i posted so i believe i have a good understanding of these mileage variables. besides wouldn't the dealer/mechanic detect more obvious things like tire pressure or specs?

    yes, that's what i thought, a "hypermiler" should "borrow" this car and see if driving technique changes anything.

    my scientific mind says; there should be a way to objectively determine if consistently LOW MPG is user error :blush: OR something wrong with this particular car :sick:

    perhaps i'm dreaming but my first thought was... rather than denying my assertion that MPG has been for most part 26-28, TOYOTA should play "hypermiler" and offer to take the vehicle themselves (for a reasonable amount of time) and see if they can get close to EPA estimate.

    worse yet, for Toyota to claim that 5-10 below EPA estimates is "normal" and they never implied otherwise during sale? PLEASE! MPG is biggest selling point.

    BTW: thank you so much for proving you are not a "ringer" for Toyota with your honest and practical reply.

    as for The problem with that is that if indeed all the hybrid components ARE performing up to spec, then the CAR WILL INDEED be able to achieve EPA results under at least SOME circumstances.

    the last post on the john true vs honda page says something like "would you buy a gallon of milk that advertised... will taste and have the nutritional value of milk under at least SOME circumstances... carton may or may not contain full gallon etc."

    a small MPG variance from EPA would have been acceptable. i believe Toyota and/or Honda would be better off dealing with the consumer than putting up such a fight. it's all about good customer relations and truth in advertising.

    as far as i can tell, since my TCH checks out o.k. on their computer - there is NO NEXT STEP.

    Toyota has nothing in place to deal with loyal consumers who are having my same problem. i suspect there are enough people in my boat that these law suits will continue especially since consumers are being told "deal with it".

    i very much appreciate the fact that i am not being called "stupid" by this forum for basing my choice of car on advertising, media forums and blogs and EPA MPG estimates. the backlash against john true vs honda has been shameful.

    my TCH may be a lemon OR Toyota may be facing a bigger problem. They would not be the first to "deny, deny deny" until someone took legal action.

    in all, i'm very disappointed with Toyota right now.

    thanks
  • cdn_tchcdn_tch Posts: 194
    I only gave this a couple of minutes,

    here is the EPA site that has various graphs

    http://www.epa.gov/nvfel/methods/quickdds.htm

    here is the graph of the EPA highway driving cycle.

    http://www.epa.gov/nvfel/methods/hwfetdds.gif

    And the city cycle.

    http://www.epa.gov/nvfel/methods/uddsdds.gif
  • orly1orly1 Posts: 19
    hello cdn tch,

    thanks for the reply. are you talking to me? i really don't know what i'm looking at. if it helps improve performance - i'll bite.

    here's my REAL problem. i made my purchase based on advertising, media forums and blogs and EPA MPG estimates all of which promise a return on investment through gas savings.

    another thread HERE

    http://townhalltalk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f0dc3d7/530!make=Toyota&model=Camry%20Hybr- id&ed_makeindex=.f0dc3d7

    doesn't seem to have a single post about real world estimates being consistently off. there is always someone to correct the math... so if my numbers are 26/28 cty/hwy (rarely reaching 31 MPG) aren't i consistently 25% under EPA estimate?

    plain and simple, i never would have bought this car if Toyota had said "your EPA MAY vary up to 25%, we don't guarantee performance nor assist customers with poor MPG performance"

    HERE's a suggestion... someone should track these LOW MPG claims and invent a "do-hicky" that can attach to the car to distinguish between driver error and true car performance under average conditions.

    What's my next step - other people who post with this issue seem to just give up :cry:
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    orly1 - I'm talking to you.

    Next step:

    You really need to find a local hypermiler who can test your car.

    There is something wrong with the HSD system in your car only if that person cannot do what they think they can do with the MPG.

    If you were in Phoenix with your car, I could answer that question in less than an hour.

    I don't want to downplay your issue in the least, but it's really not rocket science: Either your car's HSD system CAN perform properly and there is nothing wrong with the car, or it cannot perform properly and there IS something wrong with the car.

    Some further interrogation:

    What kind of display system do you have - the digital system in the middle stereo area, or just the basic one that comes with the normal display cluster?

    Do you notice the car moving into electric mode (called E-Mode ) when it is warmed up, and the battery charge is good, and speeds are below 42 miles per hour?

    Are most or all of your daily trips very short, and/or on dirt or gravel roads or in very hilly areas?

    Do you have the original OEM tires on the car, inflated to at least 32 PSI each?

    Have you learned the "feathering" trick to force the car into E-Mode?

    Does the gas engine shut off at red lights?

    If you are running the heater all the time, and your trips are short and in cold weather, you will definitely see lower MPG because of those factors.
  • orly1orly1 Posts: 19
    dear larsb and cdn tch,

    thanks for replies, i know you are busy. will post again later.

    larsb, many of your questions are already answered in previous post #825, #826. i learned a lot from both cnd tch and larsb earlier posts B.M. ;) (Before Me).

    larsb - you have a killer sense of humor, and cnd tch - you are very nice (must be canadien? ;)

    in answer to unanswered questions, have MFD that comes with car. don't drive on gravel... yes weather (snow) plays factor. but as i said in previous post problem has existed since purchase in june 08. also just had car checked by dealer including psi.

    already agreed with "hypermiler" idea in concept - but where does a single mom with few connections find such a person? i suggested toyota take claim seriously and play "hypermiler".

    also agree and see the merit of you both patiently repeating some of the most obvious aspects which affect performance because MPG questions come up repeatedly and people can't search through all posts.

    perhaps one of your questions will turn up user error :)

    meanwhile, i'm just glad i'm not receiving the amazingly hostile comments the two honda hybrid guys are getting. people overwhelmingly conclude the drivers are at fault and call them complete idiots based ONLY on the fact that they managed to get EPA estimates.

    neither of you two have "downplayed my issue", however this forum certainly does...

    but larsb please explain why the "burden of proof" as to whether my car's HSD system CAN perform properly and there is nothing wrong with the car, or it cannot perform properly and there IS something wrong with the car falls on the consumer of a very new MSRP car?

    am i just being naive? should i know the answer? is it buyer beware.... i sure expected better from Toyota.

    thanks to you both. i'm not giving up so easily, i will follow every suggestion in hope to either improve mileage or "prove" to Toyota the HSD is not working properly and THEY need to get involved.

    larsb, you've been here longer. do you know of ANY instance where Toyota has corrected a mileage issue with Hybrid Vehicle? (also asked in previous post)

    where's my "hypermiler"? any volunteers?

    my son just said "that's a horribly LONG post"! :blush: YES IT IS! Because i feel horribly upset and horribly helpless.
  • I purchased my TCH in early November and have put on almost 6K miles to date. In New England we have had our share of snow and consistently cold weather. My average city/highway is about 60/40. I have been averaging about 36 mpg according to the car computer.
    This past weekend there was a bit of a warming up into the 40's. On a highway trip back from New Jersey I averaged 41 mpg.
    Ergo, warmth, flat highways and driving steadily at the speed limit produces much improved mileage. We have experienced colder weather this week and my tank average is down to 36.5. Hybrids are like humans, we don't enjoy the cold.
  • orly1orly1 Posts: 19
    many posts to read,

    totally agree about weather.. my real world numbers have been consistently 26/28 tank ave since june 08. sometimes reaching 31 MPG.

    would be thrilled with you numbers, simply satisfied with EPA
  • lzclzc Posts: 483
    Easier than finding a hypermiler, how about just taking your car out on the freeway and checking the mileage? Fill the tank, find a level and preferably lightly traveled road, set the speed control at about 65 mph, and then just drive for about 30 miles. Assuming you aren't bucking a significant headwind, you should get something close to EPA hwy mileage.

    There are too many variables to deal with in normal stop and go driving to ever know for sure what accounts for mileage. Highway driving, on a level road and at a set speed, eliminates all that. Good luck.
  • orly1orly1 Posts: 19
    thanks lzc,

    i do understand the necessity of repeating some of the obvious tips, since same questions are repeated some of the "try first" tips come up also. thanks for caring enough to reply.

    of course, i have already set cruise control to 65 and driven 30 + miles on level light traffic. once my MFD displays 26 tank ave., even a trip like this does not produce EPA.

    can anyone direct me to a member who sells Toyota Hybrids and might give me tips on how to get dealer/customer service to get involved?

    since car checks out o.k. on dealer computer Toyota response has been "car working according to expectations" nothing more they will do.

    Future Replies: Please try to click on orly1 and read previous posts before suggesting "new tip"

    thanks for your interest
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    orly1 says, "of course, i have already set cruise control to 65 and driven 30 + miles on level light traffic. once my MFD displays 26 tank ave."

    Don't get too hung up on the "tank average" when you are doing these tests.

    When you got the advice on the hwy test, he was not talking about a TANK AVERAGE, he was talking about looking at the REAL-TIME MPG meter and making sure that you are around 40+ MPG when you are at about 65 and on a flat surface.

    Search YouTube for "camry hybrid" and watch the video I posted about "48 MPG at 77 MPH" to see what I mean.

    Where do you live? I'm going to try and find a hypermiler in your area to test your car for you.
  • orly1orly1 Posts: 19
    o.k. thanks. will look up video.

    i think you are talking about watching big dial rather than MFD.

    why not trust MFD display? always hovers between 26/28. rarely hits 31 since purchase.

    am i calculating AVE MPG wrong by believing MFD?

    live in cleveland, ohio area.

    Future Replies: Please try to click on green orly1 and read previous posts before suggesting "new tip"

    thanks for your interest

    just to repeat, i would be content with close to EPA estimates. NOT expecting my particular vehicle to ever give me the high end numbers being posted on forum.
  • lzclzc Posts: 483
    Thanks for pointing out the difference. Normal driving tests contain enough variables to guarantee results of little value. Only by eliminating as many variables as possible and then scrupulously measuring is one likely to get results that measure the car's performance, not the driver's or current driving conditions.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    orly1, please check your CarSpace e-mail. I sent you a contact who might be able to help you.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    Before winter hit, with 13000+ on the clock I added up all the miles, and all the gallons and did the math. 41 MPG overall average for warm weather driving. Pretty darn good for a car that is only supposed to get 34 highway. My cold weather driving has dropped down to roughly 33 MPG, but then again I drive like its a regular car and skip all the P&G and other hybrid tricks. This doesn't surprise me however, I expected the drop when winter hit, and it pretty much matches what I had with the Prius I had. Warm weather was 51 and cold was 41. If I drive it in hybrid style I can get it up to roughly 35 MPG in the cold, but I normally don't have the time to do it in the mornings getting to work, but I do on the way home, and that is what is getting me the 33MPG. My morning trip is roughly 30 MPG on the display, and 36 on the way home.

    On a tank to tank basis, the average tank came out to 38 MPG in the summer, with some in the 40's, enough of them to get me to 41 MPG overall. My winter is getting me between 31 and 35 MPG per tank, depending on how cold it is.
  • I will follow up to what others and I have said here. A key element is the length of the trip. I have an '08 TCH, and have quite consistently gotten roughly 24-25 MPG in winter (20's to 40's), but this is partly because my main daily driving is a 15-20 min city commute, w/only 5 miles of often slow highway driving. This is not enough, or barely enough, time for the car to warm up, so it essentially never gets out of gas mode. Everyone who posts these winter mileage estimates should state their average trip length, and whether it is highway or stop/go. Unless my car is a lemon (and I can get 35-40 in summer on the highway), I think it is hard to break 30 MPG (and I've never been close) on cold, 15 min city trips.

    On another matter, I have never completely understood the "pulse-glide" technique. I have tried, but slow down too much on the glide and then end up having to press the gas too much on the pulse, and mileage degrades! How long is each phase? 1 second? 10? I don't think I am doing it right.

    Thanks.

    Macolyte
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    P&G in the Camry is much more difficult than the Prius due to the size of the motor and additional weight. The trick I found that works best is feathering the throttle to keep it within 3-5 MPH of the speed you want to maintain. Light throttle to get back up to the peak, and on the glide keep your foot on the throttle with less pressure. You will know you are doing it right when your calf begins to ache.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    I sent you a contact who might be able to help you.

    I have been watching this with interest. Hope to see the results soon.

    I can't imagine not being able to match the new EPA levels. When I traded at 67,000 miles my lifetime FE was over 37 and that is in the hills of WV. I wish I was closer to Cleveland as I would love to drive a car someone says has something wrong.
  • orly1orly1 Posts: 19
    hi wvgasguy,

    there is more than one person on this forum that has posted very disappointing FE and got the "run around from toyota" - they just seem to give up.

    thanks to larsb pep talk, i hope i will have the energy to pursue this further. the contact has emailed me and has offered to meet and drive the car with a "scanguage".

    that is very nice since i have no other way at present to tell whether it is the car or the driver.

    what car did you trade at 37? mine is 09 TCH.
  • orly1orly1 Posts: 19
    hello macolyte,

    is that "mac lover" - because i am also mac user. i have seen some of your earlier posts, when you first got the car and were stuggling to get EPA.

    as per request, my length of trips ARE short, during the winter. and cdn_tch did explain the concept to me that even though the dial "looks as if" the car is warmed up it must still cycle in and out of ICE (post #823)

    he also accepts 10 MPG less during winter.

    consistently gotten roughly 24-25 MPG in winter (20º s to 40º s) sounds like me, only i've gotten these numbers regardless of temps.

    your car sounds like mine, however i would not have purchased based on these numbers. in earlier posts, i have stated that from time to time the MFD will read between 35 - 40, usually right after fill up on a 30 minute plus drive.

    then back to city and mileage creeps back down to below 30 tank average.

    i've been ill this past week so i have not contacted GM at purchase location as suggested. will keep posting.

    frankly all these posts that claim they are getting above EPA "without even trying" are beginning to depress me. (jealousy)

    thanks for your interest. at least they posted my review on edmund's :)

    i just heard a line in a t.v. show making fun of people who believe in the EPA estimates, saying that "EPA is just a number to get you in the car and take a test drive" so that you will then base you purchase on more/other factors - MY BIGGEST deciding factor was a belief in EPA estimates and blogs, media and other "PRO FE" propaganda.

    good night macolyte
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    I am sure there are indeed circumstances where one has driving conditions that just won't allow them to utilize the TCH to meet EPA results.

    In all fairness to Toyota, a handfull of people that don't get EPA results are not something that giant corporations would address. I realize there are a few people with your results but Toyota has sold thousands x thousands of hybrids. I'm sure for every legitimate complaint like yours that is still probably an environmental issue rather than a flaw that they have 100 people complain that simply do not know how to drive the TCH.

    I believe the new EPA numbers really reflect the results of a drive run where the averages is of someone who does not maximize the advantages of the hybrid system.

    Like all things it may not be a fit for all circumstances and your may be one.

    I don't remember seeing it posted but what did you drive in the past in similar situations and waht milage did you achieve as compared to the EPA?

    Cold, short trips would have easily dropped your results on your previous vehicle too.

    My son got 32 mpg one time with a load of kids, my wife would get 35. I always would get 38+. Those differences though only amount to 10% differences

    i just heard a line in a t.v. show making fun of people who believe in the EPA estimates, saying that "EPA is just a number to get you in the car and take a test drive" so that you will then base you purchase on more/other factors - MY BIGGEST deciding factor was a belief in EPA estimates and blogs, media and other "PRO FE" propaganda.

    The EPA is only a "relative" number I ever used. I typically would average about 10% above the city number. The ad's today of 17 to 25 mpg are interesting but my experinece was that I would get about 19 on average with an EPA like that. The tests are accurate for the most part. They try to require a consistant test so that people can compare. However many people never get EPA on any of their cars and some average near the top consistantly.

    I know I had an Infiniti FX45 and averaged 16 mpg and NEVER got over 17. Then as part of a maintenance service they picked up my car (nice service since I lived 100 miles away) I decided to check my car. I figured some kid would pick it up and hot rod it so I reset everything. To my surprise a nice older gentleman picked it up and when he got back I saw that he averaged 18.5 for the trip. I would have swore it was impossible to get that type of milage.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    I have always wondered why 3/4 ton and up trucks didn't get EPA numbers, and I think it is so they don't embarrass the 1/2 ton trucks. :P I had an F150, it got 13 MPG, no matter how I drove it. I now have an F350 Dually Crew Cab diesel, it gets 14 on a bad day and 22 on the highway. It weighs twice as much as the F150, it twice the size, and gets much better MPG. Makes one wonder eh? I have an 08 Veracruz, it gets better than EPA rated Highway, but just below EPA city, at least in winter. The Camry averages 44 MPG Summer, but 32 winter, the Prius 51 summer 42 winter. It is all in how you drive it, where you live, and the weather conditions. The EPA is only so you will have an idea of what you may get when driving.
  • I see many in here are having varying results with the MPG on their TCH's. I have had mine (2009 model) for about a year now; I find that the average tank I'm able to obtain is anywhere from 32-35. I think you really have to be cognitive about the way your driving these to get the MPG that's advertised. If I'm driving mine with the purpose to try and obtain the highest MPG I can probably get 35 for the tank and if I just drive it with out regard for anything I end up with 31-32. In my case I notice better MPG on HWY driving vs city; Most of my driving is around the city relatively flat and as previously mentioned get 32-34 MPG. I have taken it on a few HWY trip and received almost 40 MPG! Either way it's not bad, but I'm not sure how much better it is than the gas powered 4 cyI.

    I'm not complaining a bit about the car as it's probably one of the best cars I have ever owned; smooth, quiet, comfortable, nice sound system, reliable etc... I don't see how you can obtain the advertised MPG numbers unless you are driving under ideal conditions with the purpose for trying to obtain the maximum MPG though. The car will always use the gas motor to accelerate so driving around a city with a lot of stop and go is not going to result in very good numbers in my opinion.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    My winter numbers have dropped, different gas formula and the engine needs to run longer to keep the EGT's up. My summer driving I am seeing the EPA number though, and that is without gluing an eye on the MPG gauge. In City driving though, there are too many lights, and unless you can get in a groove where you hit every light just right, you are very hard pressed to get it into EV mode. I also tend to inflate my tires a bit higher than what the book says so there is less rolling resistance.
  • I got my TCH and fit right into it getting 38 on my first tank with combined driving. This was a calculated real mileage and not the one posted on the dash (I don't believe in those dash calcs.). I find it really simple to just accelerate just past the desired speed then back off the gas completely to get the electric to kick in, then just lightly touch pedal to maintain speed. Works like a champ every time. If you have your foot at all on the gas you will never get the electric to take over.

    I considered a VW Jetta TDI diesel before buying this because I own a 125000 mile 98 Beetle TDI that I have never gotten less than 48mpg on no matter how hard I drive it. I enjoy this car but if I had it to do over I would have bought the TDI. Just too much playing around to get the good mileage with this one (my wife will never do it, lead foot you know). I now have both worlds though and can play the gas vs diesel price war games with the oil companies.

    For all those out there that just don't have the feel for the TCH I highly recommend you condider the VW diesel, all the perks of mileage with none of the messing around. Don't worry about the engine it's clean, quiet, lasts forever, has a 10k mile maintenance interval, cheaper, tax credit, 3 years totally free maintenance.
Sign In or Register to comment.