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Toyota Camry Hybrid MPG-Real World Numbers

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  • Honda has faked their numbers in the past. Remember the Civic H.
    I'll pass on most of their stated specifications for now.
  • ushy66ushy66 Posts: 208
    edited December 2013
    Thank you for your post wheels r super. It is true some Mfg's (ie, Hyundai, Honda, and Ford, not to mention the EPA) have faked or misrepresented mpg #'s/fuel efficiency of various car models. However, it appears the high fuel efficiency #'s by the new 2014 Honda Accord is no fluke or fake; 47 mpg combined for the 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid vs 39-40 for the 2013/2014 TCH.

    Alex Dykes is a very thorough, honest and forthright auto journalist/reviewer who has recently reviewed most of the cars in this midsize hybrid segment, and has some interesting observations and commentary in his print and especially video reviews. If you have the time, I think you will enjoy them and learn from them as I have. While Alex's 2012 TCH review is a bit cursory (and the audio is a bit subpar and video shake is a bit annoying) his other reviews are much more polished and you can glean much of the hybrid tech mpg #'s for the TCH from his reviews of the 2013 Avalon and 2013 Lexus ES 300h, since these other Toyota hybrid products have virtually the same hybrid tech and power-plants/drive-trains; they just have a bit more lux and higher cost for that lux. The following links should help you get a better appreciation of how the hybrid technology is changing/evolving and what Toyota should do to regain it's lead, which it appears to have lost. To watch the excellent video reviews, click on the play button of one of the images in the print reviews:

    2012 Camry Hybrid link: link title

    2013 Avalon and 2013 Avalon Hybrid link: link title

    2013 Lexus ES 300h
    link: link title

    2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid link: link title

    2014 Honda Accord Hybrid link: link title

    BTW, I currently own a 2010 Highlander AWD LTD, and like it a lot, but would not replace it with a hybrid Highlander since the price differential b/n the non-hybrid and hybrid HL is outrageous @ $7-8 k and would take 9-11 yrs to break even since the real world mpg gain in a HL hybrid is really only ~ 5 mpg (Toyota says 28 mpg for the HLH, but real world #'s listed on fueleconomy.gov and fuelly.com is ~ 25 mpg, and my combined mpg for my 2010 HL AWD 6 cyl is 20-21 mpg), assuming the price of gas stays below ~ $4/gal which it may do in light of the fact of all the new oil-shale finds/development in the USA and Canada. I also have owned several non-hybrid Camry's over the years, and when the cost differential in that hybrid over a non-hybrid is only ~ $1750, one can break even in about 4-5 years for the extra hybrid cost, which makes more economic sense. I plan to buy a midsize hybrid sedan in the next 1-2 yrs (in addition to my HL SUV), which is why I welcome the competition by Honda vs Toyota and the other mfgs. Competition is good because we the consumers are the ultimate benefactors with better and cheaper (usually) products.

    Your thoughts and comments are welcome.

    Jake
  • Three points:
    Every year on average, MPG goes up in the H-Line. Compare the 07 Toyota Camry to the 13. Big difference! Next year, Every car company can and has plans on beating the best one out there today. You buy a car today, and next year it will be obsolete electronically and technology - simple fact!

    Point Two: Once you fake a number on me, I don't ever come back. It's a red flag and that's that.

    Point Three: Ford has 40+ cars in the CR "Cars to be avoided" class due to screw-ups in the model year of that line. GM is even worse. Toyota has only "ONE".
    I'm told the Impala is now a fantastic car. My answer; I would not be caught driving one because I would feel like people think I'm stupid for giving another chance to a time-proven failure. Otherwise, GM and Honda may have the best cars for the moment, but when you go to sell one you may be stuck with the same old Mfg's reputation they deserved in the past. People really don't forget that kind of thing, unfortunately. Trust and Time-proven Success are hard to beat when you go to sell a car. I sold my last Toyota in less than one day on Craigs list. I wasn't even completely ready to sell it so I started high to give me some feedback and it was gone the same day and I had to go looking for a new car the next day.

    It's all about your comfort zone, Jake. I don't fault you for having a different perspective. That is what makes car companies try to stay out front.
    Remember the transistor AM radio back in 1961 - it sold the car.

    Les
  • ushy66ushy66 Posts: 208
    edited December 2013
    Toyota has announced today it will make engineering changes to improve the crash results noted by Consumer Reports in their downgrade of the 2013/2014 Camry and Camry hybrid, plus other unspecified changes to the 2014 Camry to keep it competitive ("And we’re going to continue to improve the car. We’ll have lots and lots of Camry news next year. ") in the midsized sedan segment (check the link: link title ).

    How long will it be before Toyota's Camry hybrid ups its game to better compete with the Accord Hybrid (performance) and Ford Fusion Hybrid (style): 2014 or 2016? Since the Camry, Accord and Fusion are on five year (complete) refresh/redesign cycles, and usually have a mild 'mid-cycle' refresh the 4th of the five year cycle, the 2015 Camry would be the 'mid-cycle' refresh and the 2017 Camry is when the next generation Camry is introduced, will we need to wait 'til Q2/Q3 2016 for the 2017 TCH for significant real world MPG #'s improvements? My best guess is that we will see significant TCH performance and styling improvements in Q2/Q3 2014 for the 2015 TCH model.

    Jake
  • What type of battery is the Honda Hybrid using?
    What is the warrantee on that?
    And, if you happen to know, what drives the power brakes in both the Honda and the Toyota? They can't be taking the vacuum off the engine since it is not running when the brakes are applied?

    Thanks from Les
  • clongstreetclongstreet Posts: 1

    @PFFlyer@Edmunds said: How is your TCH performing at the pump? This is the place to discuss your mileage performance!

    It seems after reading all this, the average driver can expect between 38-42 on average blended driving. I always get a kick out of those that say they can get 61mpg! 99mbpg!!!....hilarious....drive a tankful, take ODO and divide by gas purchased. That's what you got. All those inflated numbers are based on: : "I got up to speed quickly, put the car in neutral, gliding down a mountain, with full sails aloft, while waving my arms and nudging the car in my seat, after polishing my car to a mirror shine to include the windows, tires pumped up to 50psi, 1 gallon of gas in the tank, maybe less....blah blah blah....no speedy, you didn't really get 61....you were mere gliding and burning no fuel until you rolled to a stop. Hardly an accurate reading....also, the car is taking a snapshot when you see those hallucinatory readings...not accurate. Again, fill the tank, drive it until empty, fill it and divide by the miles driven when you RESET the tripometer BEFORE you set off from your LAST fill up. THAT's an accurate reading...

  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 6,088

    Yep, accuracy in your measurements is important! I recall having "ruined" the mileage a someone was getting with their car. They thought they were getting something like 42 MPG and debating whether going to a hybrid vehicle would make sense. Well, the 42 MPG sounded WAY high for the make/model of car they had. A little back and forth determined that they "calculated" their mileage by taking the number of miles they had driven after they bought the car by the number of gallons they put in the first time they put gas in the car...never mind how much gas might have been in the tank when they filled up. They never checked it again and assumed that was the mileage the car normally got. Needless to say, when they did things the right way (filled up, drove miles, filled up again, miles divided by gallons) they came up with a number like 25 MPG. I guess I ruined their dream of what mileage they were getting ;)

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  • rickpoolerickpoole Posts: 27

    After test driving the 2014 Accord Hybrid 4 times and never getting over 40 MPG (driving very conservatively) I started looking for real world data and stumbled into fuelly.com where people post real fill up data. The current average is a little over 39 MPG so it appears my results were realistic. So, I ended up getting another Camry since I could get a fully loaded Camry XLE hybrid for $6000 less than the Accord Hybrid Touring (including financing) and the local Honda dealers would not deal the least little bit. After 1-1/2 months I'm averaging about 42 MPG (almost all city driving) and my wife is averaging a little over 40 MPG in her 2013 Camry XLE hybrid.

  • ushy66ushy66 Posts: 208
    edited April 21

    2015 Camry Revealed at 2014 NY Auto Show; Major Refresh to everything, except power plants (that is, no changes to the hybrid engine and drive-train, for now)

    Check out the new 2015 Camry and click on the press release at bottom of page to get more info: (http:// "https://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/16/2015-toyota-camry-new-york-2014/")

    More 2015 Camry pics: (http:// "https://www.autoblog.com/photos/2015-toyota-camry/med/")

    So apparently no change, for now, in the 2015 Camry hybrid power plant to improve fuel efficiency. Reportedly the 2015 Camry will arrive at dealers this ~ September, +/-. However, the 2015 Prius will be have a complete make-over, and reportedly it's newly re-designed power plant will improve fuel efficiency by ~ 10% (50 --> 55 mpg); the new 2015 Prius will reportedly arrive at dealers between this June--> September. That newly revised Atkinson hybrid technology should then be used in the Camry, Avalon, and Lexus ES models probably in 2016 or 2017, which should allow the Camry hybrid to improve it's fuel efficiency by ~ 10%.

    Thoughts?

    Jake

  • ushy66ushy66 Posts: 208
    edited May 30

    2014 Honda Accord Hybrid MPG #'s Slammed by Consumer Reports!

    As some on the board have noted (lester_eng, and rickpoole) there may be something 'fishy' in Honda's MPG claims for their 2014 Accord Hybrid (~ 48 mpg), and now Consumer Reports confirms Honda's inflated mpg claims (CR found ~ 40 mpg vs ~ 48 mpg claimed by Honda) and is highly critical of them (check the following links: (http:// "http://editorial.autos.msn.com/consumer-reports-blasts-honda-accord-hybrid-mpg-claim?icid=autos_5679") , and (http:// "http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/honda/accord/sedan-hybrid-4-cyl.htm"). These reports will definitely cool the hot sales of the 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid, and call into question the veracity of any future Honda product claims.

    Kudos to lester_eng and rickpoole for their posts and heads up!

    Jake

  • Wife has the 13 TCH and after a year with one long trip, it is averaging 43 city and close to 50 Highway at 60 MPG. Have not seen a need to run at 70 MPH so far.
    I calibrated the digital MPG, both tank and auto-reset trip computers by filling the tank to the brim (takes a while) and then doing the same on the next fill. The meters were only off by one MPG between computer and pump ODO/gallons observed. After that, we use the computer number which you do not have to fill the tank to get.
    The Highway number at 70 will have to wait for my next thousand mile plus trip.
    40 MPG is probably close to what I would expect.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 6,088

    I calibrated the digital MPG, both tank and auto-reset trip computers by filling the tank to the brim (takes a while) and then doing the same on the next fill. The meters were only off by one MPG between computer and pump ODO/gallons observed. After that, we use the computer number which you do not have to fill the tank to get.

    Yep, I wouldn't expect the dash to match the calculation EXACTLY, but within 1 mpg makes the dash reading a useful tool for keeping an eye on whether things are generally going well with your vehicle. Our newest vehicle is the first we've had with dash readings of instantaneous and average mileage, and while the instantaneous reading is interesting, the average mileage figure is much more useful

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  • Here is why MPG numbers are meaningless without knowing the distance you commute.

    Actual TCH results:
    1block from home - 7mpg
    1/2 mile away up a hill - now 20 mpg
    2 miles at a light - 32 mpg
    4 miles to store - 35 mpg

    Now the engine is hot and running more efficiently, but not if you are commuting to work and come out to a cold car.

    Hot start from store: 50 to 60 MPG back to garage.
    Why so high? The engine is hot and the TCH is using the battery more than the engine.
    Why? SMOP - Small Matter Of Progamming at Toyota.
    Note, you do not start this car's engine - it starts and stops when it wants too.

    So what is it coming out to for a quick trip and not a commute? About 43 MPG observed.

    So when you hear MPG from me or from the Federal Fuel Guide, you have to compare those numbers to your own driving pattern and cycle times.

    Example: the 2014.5 gas 4-Cly Camry got me 41mpg on a 250 mile long city/highway trip.
    But: it only got 35mpg this week on a short trip of 50 miles including 2 mountain climbs.
    Same car. Long quick return trips good. Short commute trips bad.
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,698
    @wheels_r_super - don't ever fill your gas tank 'to the brim', that can cause real ($$) problems with the evaporative control system. Fill it consistently to the first click, you will have accurate mpgs after a couple of tanks.
  • texases: Are you thinking that if you fill it up and park it, the gas will expand into the control system. I continue to drive immediately and that is required to run down the gas out of the neck.
    What say you?
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,698
    No, when you fill it up to the brim, you are submerging the inlet to the evap system, potentially forcing liquid gas into a system designed only for gas vapor. Many are the problems caused by overfilling the fuel tank. Since there's nothing to be gained, no sense doing it.
  • Ten years ago I discovered a problem: why was my MPG fluctuating between fills on a long trip.
    Turns out that at a really slow gas pump, the gas had a chance to equalize using the breather tube running to the neck to evacuate air from the top of the tank. And as a result the pump would trip late putting more gas in the tank. On a really fast pump, the pump would trip off a lot earlier because the small tube could not pull the air out of the tank quick enough forcing the nozzle to think the tank was full.
    That is why the computation would vary from like 34 to 39 MPG on the same type interstate going the same speed, etc. So once I get a calibration, I use the computer to get the correct readings and correct for know bias. Thanks for the good tip.
  • Here is the last data I took with the 13 TCH. It was rated at around 40/40 MPG. We don't know what tests the EPA did to get that number, but I can now translate that to what they were simulating:
    78 mile trip, Sunday AM, low traffic, and 64 degrees. Hybrids are a bit sensitive to temp.

    Mile 2 - city = 28 MPG
    Mile 7 - all interstate = 40 MPG. If I commuted 7 mile to work at this point I would be getting EPA MPG provided I came out of work to a cold engine.
    Mile 14 - divided highway, some lights = 45 MPG.
    Mile 32 - 2 lane slow traffic, no lights = 50 MPG. So if I commuted this distance every day from Madison to New Hope, Al. this would be the actual MPG of this TCH.
    Now I manually reset the MPG to get a pure highway number back to Madison.
    Mile 32 to 78 = 46 MPG. It dropped bacause I put it on Cruize an picked up the speed on interstate to 62 MPG. One mountain climb and then 70 MPH did not help.

    So can you imagine two guys meeting at work and both have the same car - one says he hates it because he lives to mile from work and his MPG is lousy. The other guy swears he is getting 50 MPG in the same exact model car. They are both most likely correct. They just don't understand what makes and what kills EPA estimates, in my opinion.
    Cold engine starts and short trips sap all gas engine cars of their rated MPG.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 6,088

    They just don't understand what makes and what kills EPA estimates, in my opinion.
    Cold engine starts and short trips sap all gas engine cars of their rated MPG.

    That phrase, "Your mileage may vary" is SO true. Great observations!

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  • When I bought my 14 Camry Hybrid SE new, I was only able to log 36-38mpg combined hwy/city driving. The car now has 3600 miles and it gets between 46-51mpg combined city/hwy driving up to 65mph.
    I am definitely a happy camper with his Camry. BTW, I live in Florida---no "real" hills, overpasses don't count.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 6,088
    standonit said:

    When I bought my 14 Camry Hybrid SE new, I was only able to log 36-38mpg combined hwy/city driving. The car now has 3600 miles and it gets between 46-51mpg combined city/hwy driving up to 65mph.
    I am definitely a happy camper with his Camry. BTW, I live in Florida---no "real" hills, overpasses don't count.

    Driving conditions matter for sure! As do drivers!

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