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Fuel Economy and Oil Dependency

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Comments

  • lemmerlemmer Posts: 2,676
    Good grief. If you can't drive safely at 75-80, you need to get a bus pass.
  • cdn_tchcdn_tch Posts: 194
    Most drivers aren't concerned, and for good reason.
    Most drivers aren't concerned because they don't think about it. They'll complain about how much it costs to fill their tank and then peel out of the gas station.

    The extra safety, convenience and pleasure that comes from higher speeds on limited access highways are worth it.
    Pleasure, yes, I'll agree with that; Convenience, doubtful; Extra safety, no, speed increases risk.

    Speed limits should be set for safety, not to save gasoline.
    It isn't an either or, it could be both.

    For new cars, volatile organic compounds (VOC) emissions drop as speed increases, while nitrogen oxides emissions are less at 70 mph then they are at 10 mph.
    Comparing 10 mph to 70 mph in this discussion is irrelevant. What are the stats on 60 vs 70 vs 80 mph? Also where is the information from? Please provide a link so we can all learn.

    For carbon monoxide emissions, speed increases emissions, but new cars are so clean that the increase is negligible.
    With 3 Trillion vehicle miles driven, the increase ends up being substantial.

    Also note that unregulated gasoline powered engines - used in lawn mowers, snowblowers, etc. - pollute much worse than automobile engines. A 1998 car, for example, would have to drive 305 miles to put out as much carbon monoxide as a snowblower operated for one hour. And a 2008 car is even cleaner than the 1998 model.
    Yes, unregulated gasoline powered engines do pollute more but that does not make it OK to pollute more with a car.

    Sorry, but slowing people down in the name of pollution control is a waste of time, energy and money.
    I have not advocated slowing down for pollution control. I just made the point that if we slow down, not only do we increase safety, but reduce emissions as well.
  • Cool. If you're not comfortable driving that fast, don't.
    But please stay in the right lane so those of us that choose to can do so safely & enjoy it more.

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,013
    Dawdling down a wide open road at a coerced unnaturally low speed is not a way to reduce tension :sick:

    Why are so many other developed nations able to handle 75-80, but not Americans?

    Why are those who preach freedom and liberty the ones who become pseudo-authoritarians when it comes to speed limits, and why do said people who completely lack credentials believe they can judge driving ability? :lemon:
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,338
    "Why are so many other developed nations able to handle 75-80, but not Americans?

    And those numerous nations are..............

    Why are those who preach freedom and liberty the ones who become pseudo-authoritarians when it comes to speed limits, and why do said people who completely lack credentials believe they can judge driving ability?


    Experience under all conditions enable discernment of selfish driving styles.
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    If you can't drive safely at 75-80, you need to get a bus pass.

    Yes on a multilane interstate, driving at 75-80 mph is the same skill level as driving at 55-60mph. You point the car straight, with slight turns of the wheel. Interstate driving is actually the safest and easiest, you'll find.

    And for those that say people can't do that, in my neck of the woods - NorthEast - that is what people are driving on the interstates now. All I want is to make the current driving legal.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,013
    According to the link Steve posted, nations with major highways at 75mph (120 kmh) or more are Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia, CZR, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iran, Ireland, South Korea, Lithuania, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland,
    Turkey, and Zimbabwe. And even the psychotic Orwellian nanny state of Great Britain has a 70mph limit, which is an insane speed in the eyes of some here.

    Experience under all conditions can also discern when some favor a speed which is simply illogical and regressive.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    that have not caused any at-fault accidents in over 5 years. There is no need to enforce speed limits on safe drivers, as they are not the ones causing accidents.

    75-80 is a reasonable speed limit even for people that are older than the speed limit. For most people, the interstate/freeway/highway maximum speed limit should be 85.

    Slowing down does not make anything safer. Slowing down does not reduce your risk of getting into an accident. However, if you do get into an accident, reducing your speed will lessen the severity of that accident. So by that logic, we should design our airplanes to fly 55 MPH in the air so that if there is a bad landing or takeoff people won't die?
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,318
    we should design our airplanes to fly 55 MPH

    Alternatively, we could just train our car and truck drivers as well as pilots are trained.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • Steve has hit the proverbial nail smack-dab on the proverbial head:

    Train our drivers to a standard that makes interstate driving 'at speed' a non-event. No pass, no drive. Raise the bar.

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    I agree, raising the bar and having a driver's license mean something substantial other than identification would be a good revelation for this country.

    The driver's tests in CA are a joke.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,338
    "regressive" is preferred to "agressive" & for those who prefer driving agressively at 80 mph, do it in the countries listed by Steve and while over there, apply for citizenship and stay there.

    It is rude to expect others to get out of your way by keeping right of where you want to go agressively.

    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength. - Eric Hoffer
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,318
    Of course, you can get a general aviation sport license with a driver's license and 20 hours of flight training (i.e., a long weekend) and cause all sorts of havoc with your lawnmower powered ultralight.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • i don't think its driving the 75-80 that's the problem. i think people just need to be cautious of their surrounding drivers. 75-80 is a fine speed to drive when not many cars are on the highway, but I think it is ridiculous to try and do the same and swerve in and out of lanes to do so. If the situation permits one to drive in that way, so be it! If it doesn't then obviously drive accordingly. I know that's the problem with speed limits. If they are high, then drivers assume that this is the speed they should be going at ALL times. there are factors we can' control and therefore are forced to drive slower. i guess in LA, the speed limit is the most irrelevant thing ever!!! to go the max. speed is something Angelinos are happy enough with!
  • cdn_tchcdn_tch Posts: 194
    Yes on a multilane interstate, driving at 75-80 mph is the same skill level as driving at 55-60mph. You point the car straight, with slight turns of the wheel. Interstate driving is actually the safest and easiest, you'll find.

    I guess this is where we differ on what is 'safe'.

    Your definition is being able to follow the road at speed and not drive into the ditch.

    My definition is that both the car and driver are capable of handling the speed when something goes wrong. Yes just about any imbecile can point a car in a straight line and do 80+ mph. Unfortunately there are precious few who have a feeling for the car they are in and would slow down if they had a sense that the car was losing downforce and starting to create lift, or realize that should a deer or other wildlife come up on the roadway how to best avoid a serious accident.

    Airline pilots are trained in many worst case scenarios so they have the ability to get out of trouble. Airplanes are also certified for speed, and cars should be as well, not just how fast can it go, but rather how fast can it go with in its design specs (brakes, handling, aerodynamics).
  • i couldn't help but create my own in reponse to the 4 dollar discussion. I am currently pay 2.35 but I am always looking to pay less and save money any way I can.

    i started using the program Safeway and its sister sites (vons, genuardis, dominicks) have created. Every time you use your Safeway card, you earn gas rewards! Im not a huge shopper but even the smallest rewards helped me out !
    Has anyone tried this?
    if so, how much did you save???

    oh yeah, btw they have a site where you enter your zip to see if the store near you is participating!!!
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,013
    Regressive is the opposite of progressive, and driving 75-80 - speeds accepted by hundreds of millions of fellow humans on appropriate roads - has nothing to do with being "aggressive"...but nice deflection. Of course, one can't expect much progress from the irrelevant unwashed old crony capitalist pseudo-intellectuals of Clark county, the silent generation that has betrayed the world.

    It is rude to impede the progress of others driving a completely reasonable speed, and insane to believe you have the means to do so. Keep your tired old sled in the right lane and let the people of today go past - this is where your recourse ends. The slow and backwards will keep right or wish they had.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    drivers ignore the speed limit regardless of what it says. People will drive the speed that is reasonable, safe, and comfortable to them no matter what a sign with numbers on it says. The study was done on a 2 lane road where the speed limit was adjusted from an archaic 35 MPH to 45 MPH. The average speed of cars with the previous speed limit was about 46 MPH and 95% broke the "law." After the speed limit was adjusted the average speed of vehicles became 44 MPH and a majority of drivers were within the "law's" parameters.

    Therefore, increasing speed limits does not automatically mean the speed of traffic will increase.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,013
    I drive on a road like that every day. It's a long stretch of suburban arterial, posted at 30(!)/35/40 at random points - at one end it starts at 30, then up to 35, then 40. Traffic moves at about 40 (a reasonable speed for the route) over the entire stretch, unless LLCs cause a little chaos.
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    there are precious few who have a feeling for the car they are in and would slow down if they had a sense that the car was losing downforce and starting to create lift,

    You're kidding right? Please post a link - like Consumer reports stating vehicles are having hazardous lift at 80mph.
    It's about 1,000,000 times more likely that someone will have a problem controlling their car on ice or snow then just driving down the road at 80mph. If you were going to put ay effort into improving people's driving skills, it would be on snow and ice.

    or realize that should a deer or other wildlife come up on the roadway how to best avoid a serious accident.

    I've known somebody that had a deer run into the side of the car, and my boss who hit one at 45mph and had no time to react. Deer are unpredictable, stupid and fast, which makes driving skills rather irrelevant. The stability control and ABS of vehicles allow drivers to maintain control in those cases where some avoidance maneuver is possible. Those systems act faster and better than any human can, and no great skill is needed; but the deer might move the same way you go.

    Airline pilots are trained in many worst case scenarios so they have the ability to get out of trouble.

    Are you inferring that many years of driving experience counts for nothing?

    Airplanes are also certified for speed, and cars should be as well,

    Airplanes and cars are designed and tested in much the same way. Most auto manufacturers have testing facilities, and cars designed for high speeds are tested for high speeds. Sports cars carry larger, more powerful brakes, and many cars now are equipped with certified H, V, or Z tires. I have no qualms that my Mazda couldn't run safely at full speed if on an appropriate Autobahn or track.
  • cdn_tchcdn_tch Posts: 194
    Consumer reports stating vehicles are having hazardous lift at 80mph.
    It's about 1,000,000 times more likely that someone will have a problem controlling their car on ice or snow then just driving down the road at 80mph. If you were going to put ay effort into improving people's driving skills, it would be on snow and ice.

    Aerodynamic forces change with speed, and I've experienced it. It is not that the car starts flipping over backwards (a la Le Mans), but rather that you can feel the car getting very light in the front.

    The deer was just an example, not a statement of the only unexpected thing that can happen on the road. Many things can happen, and most people will panic when confronted with an emergency and no amount of technology can make up for that.

    Are you inferring that many years of driving experience counts for nothing?
    Nope, I'll state it without reservation. As a friend said in an unrelated conversation, "you have 2 people in the same job for 30 years, one has 30 years experience, but the other has 1 years experience 30 times". This holds for drivers as well.

    Most auto manufacturers have testing facilities, and cars designed for high speeds are tested for high speeds. Sports cars carry larger, more powerful brakes, and many cars now are equipped with certified H, V, or Z tires.
    The manufacturers test their vehicles, yes, the tires have maximum speed ratings, yes, but the cars are not certified to run at any given speed. There are many cars that if you hold down the gas pedal far enough for long enough, they will go 80 or 90 mph, but at that speed they are running close to flat out. Do you believe a car like that should spend 6+ hours on the interstate/autobahn at that speed?
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,318
    My sister does that too.

    I go to my local Albertsons and usually save about three cents a gallon swiping their car in the pump - it's not related to grocery purchases. The Fred Meyer has an even better price and doesn't require purchases or an affinity card, but they are too far away from my neighborhood.

    Some gas credit cards have price rebates but I haven't checked any of them out.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    There are many cars that if you hold down the gas pedal far enough for long enough, they will go 80 or 90 mph, but at that speed they are running close to flat out.

    Do you live in Khazakstan near Borat's village? :D Many? Let's look at the cars made since 2000. What cars barely (subjective so let's say 92mph) can make 90mph? Name 1 car besides maybe the Smart that can't go 80mph? Just 1.

    Do you believe a car like that should spend 6+ hours on the interstate/autobahn at that speed?

    A SL is a maximum, not a "recommended". On a multi-lane interstate I don't care if you drive 55mph in the right lane to get your maximum fuel economy and feel safe. Or 60mph if you're rushing to the hospital. :D I'd also suggest that all garbage-trucks, moving vans, Student drivers, and those above 90 years old stay right. The left-lane or middle lane if there, is for the higher speed traffic.

    And if you don't like to drive 55mph with faster traffic on the left, there still are secondary highways where 55mph is the SL and going to the same destination.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,958
    Krogers has a 10 cent discount, if you have a qualifying amount of grocery purchases, each month..

    But, I have the Citi Shell MasterCard. That gives you 5% off gasoline and 1% off everything else, rebated off your balance, the very next month. Currently, that's about 10 cents/gallon, but it was as much as 21 cents/gallon, just a few months ago..

    It's the best "rewards" card I've found, because it pays out right away, and it's for something you have to buy anyway..

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    Great suggestion! Even though gas is down to $2.09 in the York, PA area, I'm always looking to save money.

    My wife fills up almost exclusively at Giant foods. They offer discounts on gas depending on how much you spend at the store. Their gas is priced with many of the other gas stations. With some luck and proper shopping, we may be able to fill up for under $1.50 next time.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    The manufacturers test their vehicles, yes, the tires have maximum speed ratings, yes, but the cars are not certified to run at any given speed. There are many cars that if you hold down the gas pedal far enough for long enough, they will go 80 or 90 mph, but at that speed they are running close to flat out. Do you believe a car like that should spend 6+ hours on the interstate/autobahn at that speed?

    Yes, that is exactly what manufacturers are doing when they put in electronic speed limiters onto their vehicles (most modern, if not all modern cars have this electronic nanny). Therefore, I'd argue the certified speed is the speed limiters maximum allowed speed by the manufacturer.
  • lemmerlemmer Posts: 2,676
    There are many cars that if you hold down the gas pedal far enough for long enough, they will go 80 or 90 mph, but at that speed they are running close to flat out.

    Did you write this 30 years ago and forget to update it?
  • One can drive at 80 without driving aggressively - lots of stretches of Interstate in the US are posted at 75. 5 over isn't aggressive - in a lot of places, it's merely keeping up with the flow of traffic.

    It's not rude to keep right - it's the law.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,338
    Intimidation may work for your crowd on the docks, but it fails to generate any respect of those who know better.

    One should not confuse the silent generation with the greatest generation who knows a lot more about being young than the young know about being older.

    The youth are not born with wisdom, it is accumulated with experience and age.

    There are old drivers and bold drivers, but no old bold ones. Choice is yours.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,338
    "
    one can't expect much progress from the irrelevant unwashed old crony capitalist pseudo-intellectuals of Clark county, the silent generation that has betrayed the world.


    I find it sad to see such blind faith manifesting itself into name calling, stereotyping, ridiculing, marginalizing, and all that bluster which essentially is another way of showing that what anyone else has to offer on the subject is worthless...for no other reason than it doesn't support someone's chosen position.
This discussion has been closed.