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Acura TSX vs. Mazda6 s Grand Touring

patpat Posts: 10,421
edited April 1 in Acura
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Comments

  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    Call me crazy but didn't a TSX vs Mazda6 thread exist at one time? This comparison seems to be weighted heavily to the Mazda side in all categories but price IMO.
  • kronogoosekronogoose Posts: 116
    I think it's a valid comparison. I'm interested in and have researched both cars.

    There is a glaring difference in horsepower, but I would wager that a TSX Type-S isn't too far off in the future. If Acura can sell a turbocharged 4 cyl in the RDX, why not the TSX?
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Indeed we might have had a TSX/Mazda6 discussion, but the member who asked for this specifically wanted to talk about the 6 s Grand Touring agains the TSX. We can do that. :)
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    There is a glaring difference in horsepower, but I would wager that a TSX Type-S isn't too far off in the future. If Acura can sell a turbocharged 4 cyl in the RDX, why not the TSX?

    They could, but by the time they do, the '08 Mazda6 will be out, with a 260+HP V6, and it'll be much larger than the TSX.

    The TSX handles well, but a sedan like that shouldn't be revved past 6K RPM all the time just to keep it in the powerband. The 4-cyl, although technically amazing, is simply too weak. I drove both cars extensively, and ended up buying the 6. Despite the nicer interior of the TSX, and the 6-speed manual, I couldn't justify paying $4K MORE for the TSX for a less-powerful engine and smaller interior space.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    Indeed we might have had a TSX/Mazda6 discussion, but the member who asked for this specifically wanted to talk about the 6 s Grand Touring agains the TSX. We can do that.

    I think I have to take back what I originally typed. I linked to this from the MAZDASPEED6 thread and didn't take care in reading the title of this one. :blush: I assumed this was comparing the SPEED6 to the TSX which IS a lopsided comparison in every regard.

    Sorry for the confusion. Carry on! ;)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I would happen to agree with most of that. However, I do thing the current Mazda6 V6 is a bit underpowered compared to other V6's. Since we are not doing that in this thread, the Mazda6 does perform better then the TSX.

    The thing about i-VTEC engines is you have to rev them very high to get any power, 7,000 rpm to reach 205 hp. and only 165 tq. Who consistently drives their car at 7,000 rpm's? I wonder what the power is during normal driving around 3,000-4,000 rpm's.

    Don't misunderstand me and assume I am bad mouthing Honda technology, I'm not. I think this car would have benefited more and been more competitive with a V6 with 220-240 Hp. For a high line lux car, it is outclassed by most other lux cars.

    Interior refinement, fit and finnish are top notch on the TSX, that's about all I really like.
  • huskerdoohuskerdoo Posts: 11
    Well, its kind of like comparing juicy fruit to speriment gum. Yes they are similar in size, yes they are both chewable and yes that special taste lasts about the same time but it comes down to what flavore you really wanted. I bought the TSX because I wanted the reliability of the Honda Corp. and a more comfortable interior. I also wanted the improvement in the gas milage ( I was going from a 05 Jeep). If what you like to do is beat your car and race folks from stop light to stop light and do it more cost consciously, then something like the Mazda6 or Altima would be a much better choice. But, if you desire the luxurious interior with the economy of a 4cyl and dependability then the TSX is a valid choice. Now, haven driven both within the last 3 weeks, I find that the power difference for everyday driving is negligible. They handle very similar but I feel the road better in the TSX and its ride is smoother. It is still a more nimble car then even its big brother the TL or Accord.The Mazda is also a fun car to drive, quick, nice manual, decent interior but a little more noisy. Yes, the TSX is probably about 4 grand more than it should be but for what you get its not bad. Compared to the next level cars ie:BMW, Lexus, Infinity, its down right awesome. The mazda, however, IS a nice car and truely more stream lined to the general public. I already own a Grand Caravan so I didn't need the extra space afforded by the M6 or the TL. Interestingly enough I turned down the TL due to the gas milage. I get 30 in town now and 36-37 on the road. If you like and need the power of a v-6, or if you are used to that type of performance then you wont be happy with the TSX 4cyl. You will always be left with a "wheres the beef" feeling. But I don't think the people buying the car are out there on Friday and Saturday nights playing the fast and furious. :P
  • Some may complain about the 4k extra for the TSX but the s Grand Touring model (the only model that competes in features and amenities with the TSX) is the same price as the TSX. Let's keep these comparos to apples to apples. Let's think about the future here as well. If you plan on trading in after 3, 4, or 5 years; all things equal, you will get more for your TSX trade than your Mazda6 trade. I just think the raspy v6, difficult air vent configuration, american style bland gauges, and the fact that Ford had anything to do with the Mazda6 makes the TSX a better car.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    and the fact that Ford had anything to do with the Mazda6 makes the TSX a better car.

    Ahhh, another unbiased opinion from the Honda crowd. It's always so refreshing to read them. :sick:

    FYI, Ford had very little to do with the 6. The main component from them was the engine block, which BTW was developed jointly by Cosworth and Porsche not Ford, and the rest amounts to a few levers and switches for things like the turn signals and wipers. You can blame Mazda for the rest of the things you don't like.

    So you're OK with owning what is essentially sold as the Accord in other markets? Boy does Honda have you TSX owners snookered! :P
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    Some may complain about the 4k extra for the TSX but the s Grand Touring model (the only model that competes in features and amenities with the TSX) is the same price as the TSX. Let's keep these comparos to apples to apples.

    Trust me, I am. I'm talking the out-the-door price of the 6 versus the TSX, NOT sticker price. After going back and forth with the dealer, I bet I'd pay at least $4K less for a GT than the TSX, considering that when I bought my 6 (close to two years ago), the Mazda dealer had no problem haggling over the sticker price, while the Acura dealer wouldn't budge from sticker, at all.

    Let's think about the future here as well. If you plan on trading in after 3, 4, or 5 years; all things equal, you will get more for your TSX trade than your Mazda6 trade.

    Maybe, I'll give you that, but I keep cars longer than that usually, so trade-in means little (if anything) to me. Besides, I'd rather enjoy my car now, rather then when I trade it in.

    I just think the raspy v6, difficult air vent configuration, american style bland gauges, and the fact that Ford had anything to do with the Mazda6 makes the TSX a better car.

    And that's your opinion, which you're entitled to. The raspy V6 is a definite plus in my book, and the power advantages and throaty sound definitely outweigh the sluggishness and "quiet" 4-cyl. The "American style bland gauges" are not supposed to win art awards, they're simply supposed to convey information to the driver, which they do quite well, and I don't have to look twice to see the speed I'm cruising at. The HVAC system is simple and straight-foward to use, like the TSX, and works just as well as anything else out there.

    Oh, BTW, my family has owned at least a dozen different Ford products over the past twenty years, all without major problems and were very reliable from start to end, and my 6 has over 30K miles on it, with NO problems, no rattles, and hasn't failed me yet. This compares to a co-workers '04 Accord he bought new only a month after I bought my 6, and it's been at the dealer about 7 times now, three of them for a recurring problem.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    So you're OK with owning what is essentially sold as the Accord in other markets? Boy does Honda have you TSX owners snookered!

    Very true, considering you could by an Accord with a V6, the 6-speed manual, and just about every option the TSX has, for about the same price, OTD. This is for a bigger, much more powerful car.
  • johnny420johnny420 Posts: 473
    Yes, you're right, we TSX owners are clueless, no doubt about it. Honda has us all bamboozled. We bit on the TSX when we could have had a more powerful version in the USDM Accord for thousands less. And none of us are aware that a similar version of the car is sold abroad as an Accord. What to do. It seems like ridiculous posts like these come in waves.

    Yes, the Accord is bigger, which many consider to be a bad thing. It is also softer, uglier and handles nowhere near as well as the TSX. Yes, it's more powerful and faster in a straight line. So what? It's nowhere near as fun to drive as the TSX.

    By your definition, bigger and faster in a straight line = better. Enthusiast drivers have different criteria.

    These USDM Accord/TSX arguements have grown more than tiresome. If you or the other poster had any idea what you were talking about, you would not be posting this drivel.

    As it stands, you're just parroting the same tired arguements that have been posted hundreds of times before. Doesn't change a thing. People who own TSX's know better. Nuff said. :shades:
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    Yes, the Accord is bigger, which many consider to be a bad thing. It is also softer, uglier and handles nowhere near as well as the TSX. Yes, it's more powerful and faster in a straight line. So what? It's nowhere near as fun to drive as the TSX.

    By your definition, bigger and faster in a straight line = better.


    I never said that the Accord was the better car. Check my post. I only said that your money buys a bigger, more powerful car when choosing the Accord over the TSX. If I truly believed what you just generalized, then I would've bought a Charger SRT-8. Plenty of straight-line there, it just can't corner to save it's life.

    Enthusiast drivers have different criteria.

    I absolutely agree with you, handling counts as much as power, if not more. That's why I avoided the SRT-8 and bought the 6, it's got plenty of both. Handling that for all intents and purposes MATCHES the TSX, both in road feel, stability, and control in curves (IMO), and power that, if not matches the Accord, at least doesn't trip over itself when merging with traffic on the highway. Why bother getting one or the other when you can have both? Hence the Mazda6.

    If you or the other poster had any idea what you were talking about, you would not be posting this drivel.

    No idea, huh? I've driven all three of these cars extensively before I bought the 6. The Accord was in fact too big and mushy for my tastes, and the power was nice, but I didn't have the satisfying feeling I had when piloting it through the twisties. The TSX handled without fault, cornered nicely, and the interior fit-and-finish and features were flawless, but I thought the 4-cyl was too overwhelmed for MY needs, and I didn't want to keep the tach north of 6K RPM all the time just to pass or merge with highway traffic. The 6 had handling that felt just as secure and confident, the interior was nicely done for my tastes, with great fit-and-finish as well, and the V6 was perfect for my driving style, and had a little extra behind it when I needed it. Not to mention saving a few extra bucks besides.
  • xplorx4xplorx4 Posts: 621
    Is this discussion about a fully-optioned V6 Mazda6 vs a TSX? If so, I would probably tip the scales in favor of the TSX. The two cars handle virtually the same, and have reasonably sufficient power to merge into traffic faster than most other cars can. I recently traded my '04 TSX for an '06 Mazdaspeed6. I would not have traded for a V6 Mazda6 (which I did test when I originally purchased the TSX.) The TSX interior fit-and-finish, auto-climate-control system, and NAV system are much more intuitive, straightforward, and easier to use than the Mazda. Does the TSX need to rev high to find its power? Sure, but you're probably spending less than 2% of your time in the car like that.

    You really get a lot of car for the money in a TSX. During the first week after I'd traded for the Speed6, parts of me missed the TSX features, nearly to the point of regret, but the extra HP of the Speed6 is the only thing that tells me I didn't make the wrong choice by not keeping the TSX.
  • johnny420johnny420 Posts: 473
    Mostly fair rebuttal.

    But the TSX "trips over itself when merging with traffic on the highway," and you need to "keep the tach north of 6K RPM all the time just to pass of merge with highway traffic?" Please. Either you didn't drive the 6MT version of the TSX or you really don't know what you're saying. Sorry, I'm not trying to insult you, I've just lived with the car for 2.5 years and I know what it can do.The AT I can't speak to, but I know many who can, and they, too, would pooh-pooh your claims.

    I've never had any issue with the TSX merging or passing on the freeway. In fact, I relish the thought of on-ramps and high-speed shifts/merges. Passing at freeway speeds is simply not an issue. The only time I head "north" of 6K on the tach is when I want to because it's fun. To assert that any of the above is not as I stated is ridiculous.

    I like the 6. I cross shopped the 6. I test drove the 6 4-5 times. I almost bought the 6. In the end, the TSX just scratched an itch the 6 couldn't. Like you, I found the car that satisfied my needs. Overall balance, solid drivetrain, sweet gearbox, smooth high-revving engine, sharp handling, classy interior, fun-to-drive factor. That's what sold me.

    FWIW, I found the 6's Duratec V6 to be more than a little underwhelming. It was one of the things that kept me from purchasing the car. It is far behind the offerings from Honda and Nissan, and Toyota for that matter. It's also thirsty.

    I am glad you like your 6. :shades:
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    It is far behind the offerings from Honda and Nissan, and Toyota for that matter.

    Yes but it only requres good old regular unleaded to run and torque steer is non-existant (Nissan). Some versions of the other manufacturers competing engines, yes in their mainstream cars too, take premium.

    The next gen Mazda6 will most likely have a "Mazdafied" version of Ford's Duratec35 which produces 265 HP and 250 ft-lbs out of the box on regular 87. If Mazda give it a few tweaks, which I doubt they will without stepping on too many PAG toes, it will easily out power everything else.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    I've never had any issue with the TSX merging or passing on the freeway. In fact, I relish the thought of on-ramps and high-speed shifts/merges. Passing at freeway speeds is simply not an issue.

    I'm glad that you found this to be true, But I don't think it's "rediculous" when it's someone else's opinion. I did drive the 6MT, through many different scenarios, and I felt that it didn't feel as confidence-inspiring when merging and passing as I liked, and this was trying different gears at different revs. Yes, I could get power, but what required two (or even three) downshifts to make a pass on the highway or two-lane took only one (if any) with the 6. I love shifting a manual as much as the next guy, but when making a pass quickly (such as on a two-lane with oncoming traffic), the less time I spent shifting, the better.

    I found the 6's Duratec V6 to be more than a little underwhelming. It was one of the things that kept me from purchasing the car. It is far behind the offerings from Honda and Nissan, and Toyota for that matter. It's also thirsty.

    As said before, The Duratec may not be the most powerful in it's class, but torque-steer is non-existent, unlike the Nissan Altima V6, which tugged the steering wheel even at half-throttle. The Honda motor was nice, but as I said before, both it and the Nissan couldn't hold a candle to the 6 in terms of cornering and control. I won't even touch Toyota, which couldn't build a sporty sedan to save it's life! As for thirst, I average 26 MPG in day-to-day driving, and I've hit 30 MPG twice on different road trips. I can't say it's too bad with only regular fuel.

    Overall balance, solid drivetrain, sweet gearbox, smooth high-revving engine, sharp handling, classy interior, fun-to-drive factor. That's what sold me.

    As I stated before, the 6 may not excel in any one category, but it does everything "just right" in the categories you mentioned for me. We may disagree on the details of each vehicle and how it relates to our driving styles, but at least we're not lowering ourselves to Toyotas! :)
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    The next gen Mazda6 will most likely have a "Mazdafied" version of Ford's Duratec35 which produces 265 HP and 250 ft-lbs out of the box on regular 87. If Mazda give it a few tweaks, which I doubt they will without stepping on too many PAG toes, it will easily out power everything else.

    Yes, it may, but in this dog-eat-dog world of the automobile biz, the HP title won't last, nor do I expect it to. If they keep the great balance, handling, control, and braking of the current 6, without tacking on too much weight with the new motor, then they'll have a winner.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    If they keep the great balance, handling, control, and braking of the current 6, without tacking on too much weight with the new motor, then they'll have a winner.

    The weight will probably rise too but not so much from the motor. Spy shots of the next gen 6 show that it will most likely be larger in all dimensions which I'm sure will add weight and make the higher HP and torque necessary. The Duratec35 doesn't weight much more than the Duratec30, about 100 lbs IIRC and it's the same size, so that's a start. For the rest you can probably look at the Fusion's weight and add the difference to the next 6.

    It's still going to be an awesome car I'm sure but I just wish they wouldn't try to make it so much like a Camry or Accord. I like the size it is now and the "rough edges" that come with it. Makes you feel like you're part of the car and, like you said, they need to preserve that in the next gen. If they don't they can go ahead and cancel the "Zoom Zoom" commercials. ;)
  • johnny420johnny420 Posts: 473
    Yes but it only requres good old regular unleaded to run and torque steer is non-existant (Nissan). Some versions of the other manufacturers competing engines, yes in their mainstream cars too, take premium.

    Careful here. Torque steer may not exist because the Duratec's torque is unimpressive. :D And Honda's excellent V6 takes regular fuel and makes much better torque, HP and fuel economy than the Duratec. It's also smoother. But that's neither here nor there. I think we're reaching the HP limit for FWD vehicles anyway.

    MZ6greyghost: The reason I said "ridiculous" above is because it's not my opinion that the TSX doesn't need to be kept above 6K to pass or merge, it's fact.

    If Mazda was to shore up their pedestrian interiors and address the engine issue I mentioned, I would revisit the marque in the future. I like what Mazda tries to do with their cars: they make cars that are entertaining to drive, and they look good to boot. I admit, the MazdaSpeed6 is an intriguing vehicle.

    :shades:
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