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Acura TSX vs. Mazda6 s Grand Touring

24

Comments

  • waygrabowwaygrabow Posts: 210
    I think that the TSX and Mazda6 are both good vehicles, so I occasionally 'tune in' to see how people are enjoying these cars. When we were buying a new ride for my wife, the finalists were the Mazda6, TSX and Audi A4. Our Audi has been flawless, but eventually it will be time to buy again. It's great to have many good alternatives to choose from.
  • Mazda is underrated as an innovator in car design. If Acura was so wonderful and the interior of the 6 has "american style bland guages." Why did Acura "knock off" the Mazda horizontal display band in both the TL and the TSX? Don't know, ask Honda! BTW the five pointed "semi-triangle" with the logo in the middle was also knocked off from mazda. Mazda started using it around 1999 or 1998 with the Protege and Millenias. The last generation TL's and TSX's copied that as well.
  • Test Drove Both when I bought my car. Both are great cares. I had my heart set on the Acura. Dollar For Dollar, I ended up with a 6s base trim. I liked it almost as much as the Acura. The Acura looks and feels more upscale. However, the Mazda was 24.5k msrp, with 3500 in incentives i got it for less than 20k. The Acura was therefore about 7k more than the 6 cyl 6s. I couldn't justify the additional money especially for a car that wasn't as fast and was no better handling. I bought the mazda 6. I love it.

    Its not the "s Grand Touring" like the post says, but i drove the Grand Touring and found it jittery with the 18" wheels. I liked the ride of the 17" wheels and the no spoiler look better. Thats the only difference.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "Why did Acura "knock off" the Mazda horizontal display band in both the TL and the TSX?"

    Actually, the Mazda "horizontal display band" is a travesty with the clock, radio, and HVAC information presented in red LED's, all crowded next to each other with no association to the panel that controls that function.
    image

    Acura has individual, backlit displays for radio, clock, and HVAC information organized in an easy to read and logical manner.
    image

    Which do you think is more attractive and easier to read?

    Oh, by the way - this is the way Honda has been doing it since the 1991 Acura Legend.
    image

    Still looks modern even after 15 years!
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Actually ,that is totally subjective. IMHO, all of the Mazda vehicle information, not related to the engine, is located in one, easy to read area. Your eyes do not have to search for information displays that distract you from what you are supposed to be paying attention to, which is DRIVING.

    The red digital (not LED) screen is better for your eyes to read, in all lighting conditions.
    That is scientifically proven.

    I really do not see any correlation between the 91 Legend and TSX interior, and no different then the Accord of that year. Really no different then any other [non-permissible content removed] car of that time, including the Mazda 626
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "Actually ,that is totally subjective."

    Yes, it is subjective. But here's why I disagree. If, for example, you want to know the temperature, what's easier to do? Look at the HVAC and read "72" or look at the center display, read "6:41!FM1 CH4 98.7! 89" and recognize that 89 is the temperature? No big deal, but it is my personal preference.

    "The red digital (not LED) screen is better for your eyes to read, in all lighting conditions. That is scientifically proven."

    No, you're wrong. Please do a little reading on "Purkinje Shift" and "Night Presbyopia" before you show me one of the scientific studies you reviewed.

    "I really do not see any correlation between the 91 Legend and TSX interior."

    Look at the center stack of the two Acura's again. The clock is at the top center by itself. The HVAC display is in the center next to the climate controls, and the radio display is beneath, next to the audio controls.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "BTW the five pointed "semi-triangle" with the logo in the middle was also knocked off from mazda. Mazda started using it around 1999 or 1998 with the Protege and Millenias. The last generation TL's and TSX's copied that as well."

    You better check again and see who copied who...

    91 Mazda 929 (no hood emblem)
    image

    91 Acura Integra ("caliper" hood emblem)
    image

    92 Mazda 929 (hood emblem look familiar?)
    image

    06 Acura TSX (still "caliper" hood emblem)
    image

    Acura, like all car makes, evolves the style/appearance of the emblems periodically to keep up with evolving car designs. Acura started with the "caliper" and has kept with it to this day. Mazda started with no emblem at all and quickly jumped on the bandwagon, as illustrated in the pictures above. In 1999, Mazda changed to the current emblem design, in an attempt to give the brand a more upmarket appearance after the relative poor sales of the Millenia and, more importantly, the inability to create a luxury brand ("Amati") modeled after Honda's success with Acura (and Toyota's subsequent success with Lexus).

    Don't get me wrong - I love Mazda's. They make the sportiest, purest, most soulful Japanese cars out there. They have simply been challenged with marketing, production, cashflow, and quality issues while Honda and Toyota have simply enjoyed unchallenged global dominance. If I were a Mazda executive, I'd copy Honda/Acura too.
  • Don't get me wrong - I love Mazda's. They make the sportiest, purest, most soulful Japanese cars out there. They have simply been challenged with marketing, production, cashflow, and quality issues...

    I'll agree with the miserable marketing, but I've heard of no production issues since the fire at the Mazda3 plant. Cashflow isn't a problem, since they're pretty much the only car company that's both partly owned by Ford and MAKING money.

    If I were a Mazda executive, I'd copy Honda/Acura too.

    They did, in the early to mid '90s, and they lost marketshare and $$$, to the point where if Ford didn't step in, they would have left the US. Mazda has a good thing going with offering sporty, performance-oriented products at a reasonable price, instead of the plain vanilla offerings from Toyota and Honda. "BMW on a budget" is what I've heard more than once, and I agree.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    No, you're wrong. Please do a little reading on "Purkinje Shift" and "Night Presbyopia" before you show me one of the scientific studies you reviewed.

    Any one that needs corrected vision due to astigmatism, or similar conditions, has an easier time seeing red, rather then any shade of blue, if corrective eye ware is not being used. When I find that study, I'll post.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "I've heard of no production issues since the fire at the Mazda3 plant."

    I actually didn't know about the fire. I was referring to their relatively small production numbers compared to Honda/Toyota. I think of Mazda as an almost "niche" builder - by Japanese standards.

    "the only car company that's both partly owned by Ford and MAKING money."

    Agreed, Their relationship with Ford has been a good deal for them.

    ""BMW on a budget"

    I'll agree with that too. The Miata and RX-8 are two of the finest sports cars on the market.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    The fire was over a year and a half ago. That fire also limited supply of the Mazda3 for 2005. What has hurt in 2007 inventory is the Cougar Ace vessel on a 90 degree list off of the coast of Alaska, with an abundance of Mazda3's and CX-7's on board.

    Mazda is just not as big as Honda/Toyota. They do not have the facilities to produce vehicles in the masses that Honda/Toyota do. Plus, they only have limited resources here in the U.S. Outside of the Mazda6, everything comes from Japan, where Honda/Toyota do a lot of production here.

    Even though the Tribute and B Series trucks are made here, they are more or less Ford clones.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "Any one that needs corrected vision due to astigmatism, or similar conditions, has an easier time seeing red, rather then any shade of blue, if corrective eye ware is not being used."

    If you have astigmatism or another vision problem, then you shouldn't be driving without corrective eyewear. The reason why red is easier to see in this instance is because the eye is less sensitive to red, and an uncorrected astigmatism tends to "scatter" incoming light. This scattering would be minimized with red vs. blue light if the vision problem is left uncorrected.

    However, you are not correct in stating that red is better "in all lighting conditions" as you did in post #42.

    Here are some quotes from a couple of my old Army flight training manuals...

    TC 1-204: Night Flight Techniques and Procedures. "Presbyopia. This condition is part of the normal aging process, which causes the lens of the eye to harden...As presbyopia worsens, instruments, maps, and checklists become more difficult to read, especially with red illumination."

    FM 1-301: Aeromedical Training for Flight Personnel.
    "Aircrew members will not use red lighting or red-lens goggles when viewing inside or outside of the aircraft during flight. Red lighting is a longer nanometer, which is very fatiguing to the eyes."

    "Blue-green light falls naturally on the retinal wall and allows the eye to focus easily on maps, approach plates, and
    instruments; blue-green lighting results in less eye fatigue...When blue-green lighting is used properly, the decrease in light intensity and the ease of focusing make it more effective for night vision."
  • ""BMW on a budget"

    I'll agree with that too. The Miata and RX-8 are two of the finest sports cars on the market.


    I'm not sure I'd agree exactly with that. As fine as they are, neither the Miata nor the RX-8 are sedans, and neither offer the level of luxury or refinement that BMW's do, and I don't think they even try to. If you'd specifically mentioned the BMW Z series, then OK.

    Both are excellent sports cars in the strictest sense of the word. I guess I see this as more of a apples to oranges comparison, budget considerations or no.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I believe he was referring to the fact that Mazda's resemble the appearance of BMW's, as well possessing handling characteristics you see in BMW's. I get this quite often from customers. Fit and finish are no where near BMW, but, that is to be expected.

    To be technical, the RX-8 is a sedan.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Funny, I am a pilot as well, hence me name Avi...for aviation...however, I was never in the service. I was flying before I was driving....pilots license at 16.

    I'm still trying to locate where I read what I posted. I guess different studies give different results. Personally, I find red easier to read. But, thats just me.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    You must be younger than me Aviboy.

    I went to flight school when I was 23 and I didn't have any vision problems. Now that I'm 40, I still have 20/15 uncorrected vision in the daytime, but at night my vision is not what it used to be.

    And yes, the red instruments in my BMW are a little "fuzzy" to my eyes at night. I have to look and really concentrate on focusing to make them perfectly clear.

    I never thought it would happen to me.

    So what do you fly? I'm pretty much a helicopter guy (I fly an A-Star during the week), but I do have a couple hundred hours in SEL airplanes (Cessna 206 Soloy mostly).
  • I believe he was referring to the fact that Mazda's resemble the appearance of BMW's, as well possessing handling characteristics you see in BMW's. I get this quite often from customers. Fit and finish are no where near BMW, but, that is to be expected.

    To be technical, the RX-8 is a sedan


    Mazdas resemble BMW's? Sorry, not seeing it. Handling, OK, at least for the RX-8 and Miata.

    And the RX-8 may technically be a sedan, but it's rear seat comfort is marginal, and don't you have to open the front doors before you can open the rears? Not very sedan-like. Let's not split hairs, it's a sports car.

    I like Mazda's a lot, and would love to own a Miata someday. I just wasn't getting the BMW reference.
  • Mazdas resemble BMW's? Sorry, not seeing it.

    "BMW on a budget" simply refers to the great handling and control that pretty much all the Mazda sedans and sports cars have, at a fraction of the price of a BMW.

    Handling, OK, at least for the RX-8 and Miata.

    Right. Have you bothered to drive a Mazda6 or Mazda3, either the standard models or MazdaSpeed versions? If not, I HIGHLY suggest you do. The Mazda3 has decent power, and out-handles everything else in it's class, hands down. Excellent control, great steering and braking, and it's just fun to drive. The only thing better in this class is the MS3, with 263 HP and 280 lb/ft or torque.

    The Mazda6? I challenge you to find a "family sedan" that handles as well as a 6, within the same price range. Camry and Accord? Yeah right... Altima? Too nose-heavy, and the pre-'07 models with the V6 suffer from SEVERE torque steer (the '07's are supposed to quell that, but I haven't driven one yet to see for myself). Yeah, the V6 is underpowered compared to the rest of the class, but the '08 is looking to change all that, rumored to receive the new 3.5L with 260+ HP.

    The 3 and 6 are basically great cars for people that would LOVE the performance of a sports car, with the practicality of a 4-door (or 5-door) family sedan. In other words, BMW on a budget...
  • Dude, relax. I was responding to aviboy, who did say that Mazdas resemble BMW's. I've driven the 6, almost purchased one in fact. The TSX handles every bit as well as the standard 6, with a superior interior and better fit and finish, IMO.

    Nobody is dissing Mazdas, I was just replying to aviboys post. The MS 3 looks like a great car in particular. I've always enjoyed Mazdas, if only because the company has always been willing to think outside the box.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    avi....Service is a comparison that folks forget. Since we have Acura and Mazda dealerships let me share.. The entire Acura line is good quality stuff but no bargain to maintain and/or fix. I just pulled the year to date service numbers for our Acura and Mazda stores. The avg. repair order YTD at the Acura store is $980. (highest out of 5 franchises) The mazda dealership is $280.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Safeway is cheaper than Albertson's.

    I went shopping at Safeway in August and the grocery bill was $42. When I went to Albertson's in November, I spent $215.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    Safeway is cheaper than Albertson's.


    and your point is? How does the extra expense at Albertsons relate to the Mazda6 vs Acura debate?

    Seems to me that service costs provide a good comparison of two cars. Its also the part that most consumers foolishly don't compare or even think about. I have seen dozens of people buy cars they can barely afford only to find out that service / maintance costs are way above their budget...
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    My point is - you don't know what kinds or quantities of food I bought at each store, do you? Maybe I bought some twinkies and lunch meat at Safeway and Thanksgiving dinner for 20 at Albertson's.

    How are we supposed to know which one costs more if you don't tell us what was included in the services?
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I'm 27. I have 20/15 uncorrected as well. However, acute red-green deficiency, so, no airlines for me, but yet, red lights in cars is easy for me to see. I don't understand how.

    Anywho, I am partners in a 1982 Piper Warrior II PA-28-161.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Mazdas resemble BMW's? Sorry, not seeing it. Handling, OK, at least for the RX-8 and Miata

    Look at the Mazda3 and BMW 3 series. There are close similarities.

    Yes, the RX-8 is no doubt a sports car. Not splitting hairs with you.

    I think you can throw in the MS6 in the handling group as well. It handles just as well as a 3 Series with X drive.

    For a few years now, Mazda has been referred to as the Japanese BMW. This not referring to lux features, or price though.

    Appearance is subjective. I think there are some design similarities in some of their vehicles (not all), as do many. I hear customers say it on a daily.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Interesting....I was unaware Acura's was that much more then Honda's to service. It is something that is often over looked. Acura's are a great car, in and out, no question.

    Audi is almost a G every time you bring one in as well.

    I guess if you can afford the car, you can afford the maintenance.

    My Mazda6 costs almost nothing to service. Besides the fact that I get my dealer discount, however, if I paid full price, it would still be no strain. Oil changes/ tire rotations.. not much more then that.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    I may not know what kind of food you purcahsed but cars have rather similar maintance requirements...unless the car is some exotic car they all get 30K, 60K, 90K, etc.. services that are similar. According to surveys Acura is a superior quality product to Mazda...so why are the service bills so much higher for similar work??
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    OK, we're getting closer but you're still avoiding the answer. What services did your Mazda dealership perform at 30K miles? How about the Acura dealer? I bet the lists are different.

    Most dealerships have a piece of paper at the service counter that lists the services they perform at each interval, and the price they charge for the service.

    These services can vary wildly, not just from brand to brand, but also from dealership to dealership.

    Also consider how some companies reduce the cost of service to attract customers - by marketing "100,000 mile tune-up" intervals, "lifetime transmission fluid," and 15,000 mile oil change intervals.

    The manufacturer may say it's OK, but I regluarly change the fluid in my engine, transmission, differential, brakes (lines and master cylinder).

    Is Mazda service cheaper because they are performing less work, or maybe you are paying for frivolous services you should have declined at Acura? The hourly rate charged by dealerships is pretty standard, so it's probably one or the other.

    So what's the answer in your situation?
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    The answer is simple...The Acura buyers pay more for similar work. The hourly rate is higher and prices are higher. We get almost double the cost at the Acura dealership for an oil change than the Mazda store and no lack of takers either.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Correct me if I am wrong, but, last I knew you open the hood, you have a Honda...

    It's amazing the extra cost to work on it with an "A" on the grill.
This discussion has been closed.