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2007 3-Series

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  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,656
    I actually saw a Charger SRT-8 Yesterday on my way home from work. It is definitely a bad mama jama. I love the hood scoop and aggressive styling. I'm sure you'll get the same stupid grin every time you mash the throttle and hear that 6.1 L HEMI V8 roar. But it's an automatic! And what is the story with this Charger with less than 2K miles? Is it a demo? Did somebody buy it and return it?

    How many miles are on the E39 M5 you're looking at?

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Well said Designman.

    The E30 or 993 epitomize what a sports car should drive like.

    The Miata, RX-8, S2000, Elise/Exige, and even the STi and Evo IX give me hope that there will always be undiluted new cars.

    BTW, I drove the C6 (non-Z06) recently and liked it very much. Yeah, it's got power, but it also handles - and with rigid body structure and a nice, quality feeling and designed cockpit.
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    I think the M5 has more staying power due to its all-around qualities but good luck with whatever you choose. After all, we don’t have to be married to these vehicles, just throw money at them.

    I'm really not in any hurry, but I can pick the M5 up for a really good price -ditto for the Charger- so I really will have to make a decision in the next few days. One thing that does concern me is the level of dealer support for the Dodge; I'm sure the service department will just laugh and scratch if I request a loaner. And who knows what they would do with the warranty if they found out(GASP!) I drove it on the track. Then there's the fact that I've been hard-wired into the BMW community for so long that I can easily find help with any problems I might have with the M5. I'd have to start from scratch with the Charger.
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    But it's an automatic!

    That engine has so much torque that I don't miss a stick(heresy, I know ;) ).

    And what is the story with this Charger with less than 2K miles? Is it a demo?

    Some well-heeled good ol' boy bought it and then decided he missed his pickup truck- so he turned around and traded it back in on a new Ram. I think he must have been dropped on his head as well...

    How many miles are on the E39 M5 you're looking at?

    @52K. The S62 V8 appears to be nearly bulletproof. The only red flag involves some engines that develop problem with carbon accumulating in the secondary air injection passages in the heads. Eventually the carbon accumulation blocks the passages and trips the CEL. Since the air injection system only functions at start-up(in order to light the catalysts off quickly for emissions purposes) the problem has no effect on driveability or vehicle performance. BMW's fix involves removing the heads and cleaning them(BIG $$$- dealers charge $7K or more to perform the procedure). I've heard through back channels that at least one aftermarket tuner has developed a $600 "Off Road Use Only" ECU reflash that causes the on-board diagnostics to ignore the secondary air injection system and thus the CEL stays off. That gives the savvy E39 M5 buyer an advantage over the non-gearheads who may want to unload such a car-or hesitate from buying one-because of the problem.
  • Shipo and others,

    Take a look at this track test done by a Greek car magazine:

    http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40398&highlight=335i+track

    ON A TRACK, DRIVEN BY PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS, the 335i beats the M3 and barely trails the SMG M3. Clearly the 335i can turn, slalom and brake... And oh yeah, this was the Automatic version of the 335i.

    Also, one of the tuners on that board has a plug-in product that is dyno tested to produce 400HP and 400+ ftlbs torque - and it's sold for $1300. Search around, you'll see the before/after dyno tests. And it doesn't change the shape of the curve at all - simply takes each point and moves it up on the graph. Take the base price of a 335i, tack on $1300 and you've got a 2009 M3 beater....today.

    But of course, you don't have the cool/bragging/posturing factor of the M3, if that's important to you.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Hmmm, something doesn't smell right about this. I'll wait for some more credible tests before I'm willing to believe it.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I guess it depends on what your definition of "credible" is.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Maybe I should have said something like corroboration, as in other tests showing the same result. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,021
    You also have to be careful with published dyno results. It is SOOOOO easy to cheat on a dyno and influence the results. And of course, the engineering had better not be reckless.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,380
    I'll take our previous go-around re: 335 vs. M3. Close but no cigar.

    As far as modified engine/computer/drivetrain, you're either racing or you're wasting! I'll never modify a stock car designed for a certain specification. All guarantees/warranty are gone (unless certain Dinan mods) which are certainly not designed for bang-for-the buck crowd.

    My view is have a good daily driver and a dedicated track car if you want to make it a true hobby. So, M, Quattro, Type S, CTS-V, SRT-4,6,8,10, C-6, should be good enough for the street with no mods.

    Regards,
    OW
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,656
    & other ROUNDEL readers: There was a scary amount of the ROUNDEL editors (Including Satch) in this past month's issue that said they not only loved the new 335i Coupe, but would buy it with the automatic! YIKES! What is this world coming to?

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • Mr. Shiftright,

    Maybe I should have been clearer. Most of the dyno results were not posted by the manufacturer. They were posted by group members who went out and bought it and did a pre and post-install dyno test. I intend to do the same once mine arrives.

    Given the very similar results across different users, either it actually does work or there is some really big conspiracy for various consumers in various states to fool the 335i population into buying a worthless device. Maybe it's led by the same people who faked Elvis's death!

    What other device costs you $1300, is undetectable (and I don't condone lying), takes 20 minutes to install and gives you +90 ft-lbs and +70 HP? If you can find it, I'll buy it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,021
    Well I guess what I was trying to say is that peak horsepower is probably the worst way to indicate if a chip is any good or not for your car or if the tuner knows what he's doing. The chip with the highest HP might not be good at all. I'd really have to know a lot more about the chip, what the chip attempts to do and with what parameters (A/F, spark, rev limiter, shift points, blah blah), and how adaptable it is to other engine modifications.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    I'd really have to know a lot more about the chip, what the chip attempts to do and with what parameters (A/F, spark, rev limiter, shift points, blah blah), and how adaptable it is to other engine modifications

    The only way you are going to get anything close to a 25% power boost out of that engine is to crank up the boost pressure to the ragged edge. The problem is, for $1300 you won't be getting an upgraded intercooler or cooling system, both of which you would need to keep the motor alive. It will be intersting to see how established tuners such as ACS, Alpina, and Dinan modify the 335i.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,380
    "The problem is, for $1300 you won't be getting an upgraded intercooler or cooling system, both of which you would need to keep the motor alive."

    How much would that cost?
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    How much would that cost?

    I'd want an all-metal radiator such as the one Zionsville Autosport offers for the E36/E38/E39. You get increased reliability as well as an improved cooling capacity. As for the intercooler, I just don't know; I'm not even sure that the E90 has enough room to fit a larger unit. As I said, it will be interesting to see what the professional tuners do to the 335i.
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    There was a scary amount of the ROUNDEL editors (Including Satch) in this past month's issue that said they not only loved the new 335i Coupe, but would buy it with the automatic! YIKES! What is this world coming to?

    Well, I've moderated my anti-slushbox views a bit as well. The newer autoboxes work very well with an engine that has a broad torque curve, such as the M62 V8 or the new turbo gas and diesel engines. The autobox in the 335i will even match revs on downshifts, making it a treat to drive in a "spirited fashion". That said, I still prefer a stick in a car that develops power further up the RPM band. The older fours and the ///M engines are good examples of this. And, a bit OT, I think Jeep Wranglers are absolutely ruined when fitted with a slushbox.
    My main gripe with most BMW slushboxes is the fact that they will often ignore the driver, upshifting or downshifting even in manual mode. I can understand why the box would ignore a downshift command in order to prevent a mechanical over-rev, but why should it upshift on its own? There's already a rev-limiter in place. Finally, I'm not as pessimistic as Mike regarding BMW automatic transmission longevity. My old E39 has over 140K on it and it is still running fine- and there are a lot of slushboxes on the E39 Enthusiasts Group that are pushing 200K.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,021
    There is a misconception that it's a lack of maintenance that does in ATs, but really, the enemy is HEAT...it must be that some BMW owners are in conditions that cause more heat stress....whether that's mountain driving, desert work or something as simple as running underinflated tires all the day long. I wish ATs had temp. gauges.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • I hope that you guys (and girls) don't mind a question from a relative novice. The lease on my 2003 330xi (auto trans) is running out in 3 months. I am interested in buying another 3 series with AWD. I noticed that according to Edmund's web site, the 2007 328xi has slightly more HP (but slightly less torque) than my current vehicle. Given this, do you think that I will notice any decrease in responsiveness/drive if I were to purchase a 328xi, compared to what I am driving now? Unfortunately, I am not sure that I can wait until late Spring for the 335xi because of my lease (nor am I sure that I want to pay 50K for a car right now).

    Obviously I know that I will ultimately need to test drive the vehicle, but I was wondering if any of you had experience with these vehicles.

    Of note, I didn't buy the 325xi in 2003 because I thought that it had a really sluggish drive (with the added weight of the AWD).

    Thanks!
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,380
    I lease the '06 330xi which is obviously discontinued. I do not know why they went from 330 to 328...doesn't make sense.

    The 328 should be quick enough for you if you were satisfied with the '03. Let us know when you test drive it.

    If the performance is very important to you and you are set with BMW, go for a 2 year lease. Your other option is to stretch your current lease for 3-4 months until the 335Xi is due out.

    Regards,
    OW
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I don’t think you will find much difference in the power department. Your 03 has 14 lb-ft more torque but the torque in the 07 comes on at lower rpm. A test drive should reveal what you want to know.

    2003 330xi
    225 HP @ 5,900 rpm; 214 ft lb @ 3,500 rpm; weight 3538 lbs

    2007 328xi
    230 hp @ 6500 rpm ; 200 lb-ft @ 2750 rpm; weight 3582 lbs
  • I assume you will be going with an autotrans?

    If this is correct, the newer 3xi also has a much improved transmission, now at 6 speeds vs the 5 speed auto that was the norm in the older version.

    This with the torque coming on slightly sooner will make the new version "probably" feel more zippy than the older 3.

    The mileage too will be better, the engine will pollute less and maintenance intervals are up to 15,000 miles for the normal routine stuff (oil is about it until you get past your term of ownership, basically.)

    Overall, you will be taking a step forward.

    The 335xi will be a BLAST, there is no doubt, but if you can't wait, well then that's that.

    If you want to consider such a move (and I bet you won't since the new 335 will probably not have much BMW financial support at least initially -- translation high lease payments now, declining after a few months when the newness of the 335 is replaced by someone else's newness, etc.) you can ask to keep your current car for a couple of months.

    Here are two possible scenarios. . .you keep the current car and make the lease payments and that's that. There have been times, however, when you can keep your current leased vehicle WITH a replacement on order and a portion of the lease payment is considered a cap cost reduction on the new car.

    I am generally not in favor of a DP on a leased car PERIOD. This may be the one circumstance that if offered may make some sense if what you really really really want is a 335xi.
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    There is a misconception that it's a lack of maintenance that does in ATs, but really, the enemy is HEAT...

    Well, yes and no. Excessive heat breaks down the ATF and the lubricated/moving parts in the transmission suffer accordingly. If the transmission isn't running all that hot, a change of the fluid at 50K-60K intervals will be sufficient to keep it running for 150K-200K miles.

    I wish ATs had temp. gauges.

    Don't hold your breath... My 1993 Pathfinder at least had an ATF temp warning light.

    I wish BMW would fit a glass cockpit that could be configured by the driver. That way we gearheads could have all the information we want at our fingertips.
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    I do not know why they went from 330 to 328...doesn't make sense.

    BMW model designations used to correspond with engine displacement. Tody the numbering system is used to differentiate cars within a model range.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,021
    Really? An ATF heat warning light? That's very cool, I didn't know that....great idea!

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,380
    BMW model designations used to correspond with engine displacement. Today the numbering system is used to differentiate cars within a model range.

    I was rereferringo the drop in power output. Doesn't make much sense to go from 255/230 to 230/200.

    Regards,
    OW
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    They’re careful about how much power they dole out. I guess they figure that jumping the 325 to 255 hp in the 328 is giving you a baker’s dozen, if you will. No free lunch. Taking the successor of this current 328 to 255 hp is a logical next step. It’s a good thing there are the HP wars. I don’t think they would have given the 335 that much power if it wasn’t for the competition. Think of how miserly Porsche is with power. A 245 hp Boxster equates financially to a 400 hp Corvette.

    I believe it will get to a threshold where many customers will be quite satisfied with the power offered on the lower-end models, although it will always be different story with the performance-pushing buyers. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a shift in sales percentages from say the 335 to 328 in the future. Speed limits aren't being raised but power and acceleration times have improved substantially through the years. All of this is benefits the consumer and it’s a good thing too because we have to put up with all of the other bs they put into these new cars in addition to increasing weights.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,380
    I agree with the weight issue in terms of lbs. or kg./HP. I always thought that a good wight limit in the compact to midsize segment should be around 3,000 lbs. The advent of lighter weight alloys will no doubt find their way into the design. Corvette has the right idea with the fiberglass body and magnesium/carbon fiber.

    Then, you don't need 500hp/383 lb/ft of tourque to move the added weight in say an M6.

    250/250 or 300/300 would be quite potent. Pushing 900 lbs. less is a big advantage for total performance IMO.

    A Z06 weighs 3,132 lbs and comes close to my goal weight. This is probably the only car manufactured in the U.S. that is world class (now). With 500 HP/470 lb./ft. or in stock 400/400 model, there is more than enough blend for an enthusiast or meglo-enthusiast.

    Regards,
    OW
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,134
    The 328 model didn't replace the 330i.. It is the entry level 3-series... It replaced the '06 325i (which also had a 3.0 litre engine). I believe the '06 325i was rated at 215 hp, so the 328i is a 15 hp jump from that model...

    The 335i (turbocharged 3.0 litre) replaced the 330i.. A power jump from 260 hp to 300 hp..

    2006.. the two 3-series models were 215/255 hp

    2007.. the two 3-series models are 230/300 hp

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  • manybmwsmanybmws Posts: 347
    335xi coupe out next September.
This discussion has been closed.