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Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid

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Comments

  • fshifshi Posts: 57
    "Toyota made a powerfull big gas guzzling truck because the market demanded it. They also made the Prius and created the market for the hybrid. "

    "If reducing the use of oil and mpg is the ultimate goal, the Tahoe hybrid isn't going to buy much."

    A double standard is clearly shown here. Toyota doing a big gas guzzler is ok because market demanded it. GM doing a big improvement (hybrid) on the tahoe isn't going to buy much.
  • i'm not sure what you don't understand

    Toyota has sold THOUSANDS of great hybrids.
    tell me what GM has done? :confuse:

    I don't have to look up the numbers - I can tell by driving down the HWY who's selling hybrids.

    I see Ford (buying into Toyota's technology) coming up with some decent choices; Honda with the Civic hybrid and Nissan with the Altima. But GM? it's all spin and laughable results up to this point.

    just to stay on topic here - the Chevy Malibu (a very nice car by the way), is offering a hybrid version that is not likely to catch on. There just isn't enough mpg for anyone to pay much attention.
  • fshifshi Posts: 57
    "Toyota has sold THOUSANDS of great hybrids.
    tell me what GM has done?"

    I am not sure how the total savings of the prius as compared to hundreds of gm hybrid buses in major cities. Only prius drivers care about enviromnent? buses does not count?

    GM has the two-mode hybrid technology at hand for suv/pickup truck, which consumes MUCH MORE gas than small cars, making small cars more efficient is FAR LESS important than making gas guzzlers more efficient. Toyota does not have anything for big trucks. If you stay in the small car segment, and laugh at what gm has been doing that is not fair, if you look at all segment, you will find gm is far greener than you think. As a matter of fact. read this ...

    "For model year 2003, DaimlerChrysler had the best domestic passenger car mileage at 29.7 mpg, followed by GM at 28.9 mpg and Ford at 27.9 mpg. The "domestic" imports (foreign manufacturer but domestic production) had superior mileage: 34.4 mpg for Honda, 28.9 for Nissan and 28.1 mpg for Toyota. For imports, the leader was Suburu at 33.0 mpg, followed by Suzuki (32.4), GM (31.9), and Honda and Hyundai (30.4). Turning to the light truck category, Suburu again proved outstanding, at 26.3 mpg. It was followed by Honda (24.7), Hyundai (24.4), Isuzu (22.3) and DaimlerChrysler (22.2). Some manufacturers earned CAFE incentives by selling alternative fuel vehicles"

    As to 10% saving from malibu hybrid is nothing, 10% price premium is nothing too.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,176
    I have not followed the Vue as hybrids are getting very boring. Just happened onto this site with a lot of GM bashing and thought I would correct some of the misconceptions. The Vue is bigger than the Escape closer to the Highlander and gets as good if not better highway mileage than the Highlander. I would not have one as they are way too small for comfort and safety. As is the Camry & Prius. So there are no legitimate hybrids in the class of vehicle I prefer to drive. No big deal gas is headed back down.
  • How many "two mode" hybrid trucks has GM sold?

    "making small cars more efficient is FAR LESS important than making gas guzzlers more efficient"

    What does GM offer to someone who wants to commute to work and back and get 50 miles per gallon? I'm not saying there's not a market for a fuel efficient truck, but a truck is inherrently flawed at becoming "fuel efficient"

    If the Malibu Hybrid is an example of GM hybrid technology, what makes you think their hybrid truck will be any better?
  • scortchscortch Posts: 41
    No buses don't count because they have nothing to do with the discussion. GM is WAY behind in automobile technology that saves fuel.

    Their hybrids are crap, especially the MALIBU HYBRID. Their E85 is a scam.

    The main discussion here is the Malibu hybrid junk though and it's being compared to the Prius and Camry hybrid, which is real hybrid technology that saves fuel. It has nothing to do with how this truck or that truck compares or about buses. Just their scam at a hybrid for the Malibu and trying to make people think they are green.
  • jntjnt Posts: 316
    Toyota was lucky and may be visionary when they pushed for HYBRID technology 10 years ago when gas price was $1.00/gallon. GM leadership (Rick Wagoner and Bob Lutz), on the other hand, killed the EV project since they were not making on selling this vehicle. But for fairness, GM, at that time had the most advanced Electric Vehicle technology. Hybrid vehicle today is just the extension to EV of the decade ago. It was largely the short-sightedness of GM leadership in dealing with changing times: they are about 5 years behind the curve on product planning.

    But then the "greenish" Toyota that has opposed any raise on fleet CAFE. In addition, they are making bigger and more powerful engines. Selling 150K of Priuses a year would not make any dent in overall CO2 emission while selling 200K of the Tundra with gas guzzling 5.7L engine. The new HYDRID Highlander only get 26/25 MPG rating. And how about those $100K LS430H that only returns 20 MPG?. We may feel good driving these Hybrid vehicles, but the return for the investment is more than 15 years (with gas price at $3.00/gal) w/o subsidy from government. And who among us keeping 15 years old vehicle?

    Toyota, has made the most of its green image. They are not here to save the planet; They are in business to make money. And they are very good at it. Last year, they made $ US 16 Bil (about 1/2 of Exxon Mobil). They are also calling themselves "American" car company by claiming building most of their vehicles in the US. Last time I checked, about only 50% of Toyota/Lexuses sold in this country are made here. The rest is from Japan. It is no different from the tag line from Wal-Mart years ago " We buy American wherever we can".

    Car companies should have products for every price range. If one wants to get full hybrid option like the Prius or the new Two-Mode Tahoe, then pay the $5K-$10K premium for it. If the budget is ~$2K, then the mild hybrid like the current Malibu is good enough. If I have my choice, I would go for the clean Turbo Diesel like the M-B BlueTec since it offer the 30% gain in overall fuel efficiency ( in both City and Highway (not in the case of Toyota Hybrid)) and lower cost yet. In addition, it has ton of torque.

    jt
  • fshifshi Posts: 57
    "What does GM offer to someone who wants to commute to work and back and get 50 miles per gallon? I'm not saying there's not a market for a fuel efficient truck, but a truck is inherrently flawed at becoming "fuel efficient" "

    GM takes care of big suv/pickup customer first, while toyota takes care small car customer first, and in my opinion, since big suv/pickup customer comsums much more gas than small car customer, the impact gm is doing is much larger than what toyota is doing.

    "If the Malibu Hybrid is an example of GM hybrid technology, what makes you think their hybrid truck will be any better? "

    This shows how much you know about hybrid, malibu uses a BAS hybrid, tahoe uses a two-mode hybrid, it is very similar to toyota's hybrid yet provide another mode for highway cruise, usually give about 10% saving on highway as well.
  • fshifshi Posts: 57
    "No buses don't count because they have nothing to do with the discussion. GM is WAY behind in automobile technology that saves fuel. "

    If you want to stay in the discussion, it is fine, concluding "GM is WAY behind in automobile technology that saves fuel. " is just too much and the conclusion can not be drew from the discussion of malibu hybrid.

    As a matter of FACT, GM sedan fleet average is 28.9 while toyota is 28.1, tell me how come GM is slightly leading with this "WAY behind automotive technology"?

    If you want to say malibu hybrid technology is behind prius', that is a valid statement, but you also need to say that malibu hybrid cost much less than prius'. that is a fair and complete statement.
  • scortchscortch Posts: 41
    I said behind in hybrid technology that matters.

    Toyota is ahead in that they have had the Prius for 8+ years here and they have the camry and highlander that been out for years now, while GM's vehicles remained stagnant, and still are when it comes to true hybrid and fuel savings. Heck Prius' 8+ years ahead of them more than make up for the few miles here and there that they do better in regular. Then add in Camry and Highlander.

    As far as the cost less on the Malibu hybrid, the whole point is, the hybrid they use was a TOTAL waste of time and money doing R&D and getting it into the car. Of course the POS cost less because it's worthless.

    As far as GM's all electric vehicle, well, they shoulda and coulda but they didn't, mute point.

    Making small cars more efficient is a lot better than making huge ones better. There are a LOT more of the smaller ones than those gas guzzling tanks, making smaller cars doing more to help.

    GM just talks right now, they don't really act. Oh yea, the Volt, well, it's still a to come one of these millennium type cars. They don't have a CAR right now, today, that's a true hybrid getting really great mileage.

    There ONLY reason to put out the Malibu Hybrid is to say, hey, look at us, we are green, see, we put out a hybrid. We are green, see, we put out environmentally damaging E85. Yea, look at us, we are green. We making our cars use corn based ethanol so you don't burn as much foreign oil (although we are taking your food supply with us, oh well). Don't worry about all the oil and natural gas we burn making it and transporting it. Don't worry about all the damage to the water supply and ocean from so much fertilizer being used. We gonna make it because the government pays us with your taxes to make it and we get credits.

    When GM releases hydrogen and pure electric vehicles that are affordable, to the public, then people can say GM is green.

    Yep, I agree, they need to start using the high tech diesels that burn a lot cleaner and can burn biofuel also. They would be better off with those than they would this E85 crap.
  • fshifshi Posts: 57
    8 yrs of prius is NOTHING in the automotive industry, and the first 5yrs only sells a dozen thousands at most, as compare to the 16-17mln market. If toyota really care about green, why does it offer hybrid in its new tundra and sequoia? It does not know how to do it! Different companies have different priorities.

    To be fair, as I said many times, toyota is far behind in the big vehicle segment, which is more important if you want green. If you want to talk about cars so that it is relevant to the discussion, then do not conclude toyota is overall greener. since it is greener only in the segment with a very small weighting factor because of the tiny small cars. I know this discussion is going nowher, I am stopping here.
  • scortchscortch Posts: 41
    GM is far behind period so do not conclude that GM is greener simply because they advertise they are, which we all know they aren't.

    Believe it or not, I like GM for the most part. The last 5 of 7 cars (including the E85 capable Impala I have now) has been a GM vehicle.

    I just think the E85 and so called Hybrid they trying to push on the public is crap and a scam and just to try and make them look better to people that want to be green and to get credits from the government. Each E85 vehicle they make, they get credits that allow them to slack on MPG in other places.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,176
    I just think the E85 and so called Hybrid they trying to push on the public is crap and a scam and just to try and make them look better to people that want to be green and to get credits from the government. Each E85 vehicle they make, they get credits that allow them to slack on MPG in other places.

    The blame for that should fall directly onto the Federal Government. The EPA and Congress have put a BIG loophole in the Mileage legislation. I am sure it was a compromise with the Big 3. If you only had to add a couple pieces of stainless tubing to your car and it would qualify as a 30+ MPG Flex Fuel PU truck, why not? I agree that it is totally a scam. Too bad we have so many people running this country on the payroll of the lobbyist.
  • scortchscortch Posts: 41
    Yea, it should fall on the government. Just lobbyist and all looking out for the interest of big business and not the people as usual.

    That's what I don't get, how can it qualify for 30+ MPG? Heck, my Impala only gets 17 city and 25 pure highway with E85, much less a truck.

    If they did away with the 51 cent subsidy on every gallon of ethanol, then it would not sell at all. I think that is a good thing. They need to do away with it and start using the corn for our food again.
  • e85 is a colaborative scam by lobbiests funded by companies such as GM
    shame on the politicians taking the bait and forming bad policy and shame on GM for promoting it.

    the person in this forum suggesting GM is doing more for hybrid technology than Toyota is out in left field. He's either employed by GM to push spin or sadly blinded by their marketing hype.

    To suggest the Malibu Hybrid is a value based hybrid....lol :lemon:

    And the Volt? don't even get me started.
  • fshifshi Posts: 57
    "the person in this forum suggesting GM is doing more for hybrid technology than Toyota is out in left field. He's either employed by GM to push spin or sadly blinded by their marketing hype."

    what about you? you are blinded not seeing the gm two-mode hybrid for big suvs and pick trucks. everything toyota has is real help to the environment, everything GM or other car maker has is scam or cheating or sth. Anybody disagree with you is just GM employee...

    I see your logic here.

    How many times do I need to repeat? Prius's saving to you may be big, but its impact on environment as compared to the entire auto segments is almost negligible. I give credit to anyone that is pushing the technology in the big suv/pickup segment unless you can convince the customer to abandon this segment, that segment is far bigger than your tiny prius segment. Hard to understand? or you do not want to accept?
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 6,094
    Let's not let this turn personal please.

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  • scortchscortch Posts: 41
    No, the Honda Insight isn't a scam.

    The scam here is GM's version of the hybrid that's sole purpose is to say look, we have a hybrid too. Ok, yea, we got it wrong but it's still a hybrid, so please buy me instead of a Camry or Accord. I would but not the hybrid version.

    Again, not counting the Tahoe, etc. Just the Malibu and Aura. They were trying to counter the Camry and Accord hybrids and failed miserably. They had the technology already there that was used in the Vue, Tahoe, etc. Why on God's green earth did they get so stupid as to put this junk in these cars?
  • fshifshi Posts: 57
    "The scam here is GM's version of the hybrid that's sole purpose is to say look, we have a hybrid too. Ok, yea, we got it wrong but it's still a hybrid, so please buy me instead of a Camry or Accord. I would but not the hybrid version.

    Again, not counting the Tahoe, etc. Just the Malibu and Aura. They were trying to counter the Camry and Accord hybrids and failed miserably. They had the technology already there that was used in the Vue, Tahoe, etc. Why on God's green earth did they get so stupid as to put this junk in these cars? "

    The sole purpose you are talking about is your interpretation of what GM is doing. By definition BAS system is a Hybrid. It uses both electric and gas to power a vehicle. whether it yieds 10% or 30% is another issue, it has to asscociate with cost. GM put this BAS system to the market, and did not hide the fact that is yields about 10% fuel economy gain, and carries a 10% price premium. What is wrong with it? You think people will go buy a hybrid just becaue it is called a hybrid and follows whatever company's ad, you underestimate average customer's wisdom. Everything is PRINTED on the paper. GM's hybrid is a low cost option. As to your comment about why GM has the technology on VUE, Tahoe but not on cars? The reason is the same that why toyota does not put Prius technology on Tundra and Sequoia?

    The technology for small cars is different from the one for big trucks. Gm does not has the one as competitive as Toyota's offereing for small car, while Toyota does not have ANYTHING for big trucks.

    I see our discussion is all about faith, not fact, therefore it is getting nowhere...
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    Might I point out again that Toyota technology seems to be working pretty well on the Mariner and Escape SUVs?
  • fshifshi Posts: 57
    "Might I point out again that Toyota technology seems to be working pretty well on the Mariner and Escape SUVs? "

    Sure, might I also point out again that GM technology will be used in BMW, Daimler, Chrysler SUVs?
  • jntjnt Posts: 316
    Actually this week , GM announced that they will introduce the "Two mode" Hybrid for the Chinese version of the SGM Buick Lacrosse for China market. They will be the first to introduce commercial fuel cell vehicle in that market as well. So give them a break: They are just tied up in transferring their automotive know-how to their future Chinese owner (Shanghai Automotive Group).

    jt
  • "GM will use"

    When it comes to hybrids, GM is selling promises when Toyota has produced results in the form of thousands of happy Prius drivers.

    to think of the Malibu hybrid as a "value based" hybrid is comical. We shall see how many people buy into that.
  • scortchscortch Posts: 41
    That's just it, GM has been WAY behind the curve and continue to be.

    As was said above, the value hybrid is comical and a waste of money on both sides.

    Why are they not introducing it here in the U.S. first? WTF cares about China?
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    "value hybrid"??? Exactly what does that mean? :confuse:
  • fshifshi Posts: 57
    "As was said above, the value hybrid is comical and a waste of money on both sides"

    You guys are just blindly believe GM is way behind, and interpret everything to prove this belief. GM BAS hybrid wasted your money as well? How? According to your logic, if toyota makes money with Prius, it send you a check? 10% fuel economy gain is very significant especially with a very small price premium. and considered a major technology breakthrough in engine technology. VVT, AFM can only yield less than 5%.

    link title

    Read this more carefully and do not put your personal interpretation in it. The hybrid GM introducing in China is a BAS system, will introduce two-mode in the future. GM has introduced two-mode in US on saturn VUE and Tahoe/Yukon, volt plug in is due out in 2010, why bother to introduce this two-mode on cars? two-mode is best suited for trucks.
  • scortchscortch Posts: 41
    10% gain is nothing. I can get a 10% gain just from driving differently and using quality fuel.

    Major technology breakthrough in engine technology? roflmao, omg, that's the funniest thing I have ever heard.

    Again, we are comparing the MALIBU HYBRID TO THE CAMRY AND PRIUS (which is what it competes with, mostly the Camry). Why can't people get that through their thick heads? The Camry, with their REAL hybrid technology, gets 33 city versus 21 city of the standard 2.4. The Malibu with it's FAKE hybrid gets 24 city versus 22 city of the standard 2.4.

    The GM version of the hybrid in the MALIBU is total junk. Plain and simple.
  • fshifshi Posts: 57
    "10% gain is nothing. I can get a 10% gain just from driving differently and using quality fuel. "

    Are you in the technology field? Everthing being equal is the rule when you do comparison, 10% gain is on top of what you are talking about. I do not want to repeat this anymore.

    "Major technology breakthrough in engine technology? roflmao, omg, that's the funniest thing I have ever heard".

    10% fuel economy gain for an IC engine is a major technology breakthrough, I repeat that. This further tells me that you are not in the technology field.

    Camry hybrid carrys price tag 3k more than the Malibu. Comparing performance without taking into account cost is just like comparing fuel economy for different vehicles in different segments.

    Camry, Malibu
    $25200, 22140
    33/34, 24/32
    avrg 33, 28. this is what you will see in your daily driving.

    You tell me, 33 vs. 28 with a 3K price hike make more sense? and makes a day and night difference between camry and malibu? give me a break.
  • scortchscortch Posts: 41
    Yea and like you are in the technology field, lol.

    So where are you pulling your numbers from? I think I know. You can't average numbers like that. That's just playing the numbers to fit your attempt to justify GMs junk. 33 vs 24, 34 vs 32.

    You have to compare prices with similar options. Even if all options were identical, you pay for the better quality of a Toyota. A hybrid Camry is only a few hundred dollars more (MSRP) over a standard Camry equally equipped. The Camry may cost a little more than the Malibu hybrid but, you also gain a lot more with the Camry hybrid in performance and economy.

    10% gain is nothing.

    The GM junk is not a technology breakthrough. Honda and Toyota's system was a breakthrough. GM's version is just a cheap imitation to try and get sales. Hopefully people are smarter than that though. I mean anyone with half a brain can see it's junk and just something to try and get more sales instead of actually being of any value to the consumer.

    I understand you may work for GM and just trying to defend their poor excuse of a hybrid for the Malibu though.

    The new Malibu is a really nice car. They did a great job on it. They could have done really great on the hybrid too but, they chose to try and scam the customer with junk instead of a true hybrid.

    Not only is it junk, they also only have it in key markets and, you can only get it in one option. You have no options to choose from like leather or anything. Again, anti-consumer.
  • fshi,

    it doens't matter what price the Malibu hybrid sells at if no one buys it.

    using $3.00 per gallon (that's conservative), it would take the average driver 2-3 years to recover the added cost of the Camry Hybrid in fuel savings.

    GM had a big jump on everyone with the electric car and then pulled the plug. All that did was deal the green revolution a big set back. What were they thinking?
This discussion has been closed.