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Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid

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Comments

  • paisan1paisan1 Posts: 11
    after reading most of the posts all I see are bickering between GM and Toyota . does anyone actually have a Malibu hybrid.i would like to hear how it is to drive and own.i have a civic hybrid and know how that is to drive,but would like to compare to the Malibu.for the record the accord was a performance hybrid that was real fun to drive,and I could care less about any mpg savings with that car.looking forward to more performance hybrids.....Arthur
  • "GM has the two-mode hybrid technology at hand for suv/pickup truck, which consumes MUCH MORE gas than small cars, making small cars more efficient is FAR LESS important than making gas guzzlers more efficient"

    getting a 10 percent gain (or even 20%) in a truck is more important than the Prius getting a 40% gain over a comprable compact?

    If a Chevy Suburban can go from 18 mpg to 20; that is more important than a compact going from 30 mpg to 45? How do you figure? Every bit helps, but to say that a truck hybrid does more for the environment than the Prius is hard to accept.

    Sure the Suburban can do more when it's fully loaded, but that's about 3% of the time it's being used. For 97% of your daily driving, the Prius will suffice. But it takes a change in attitude to get people to realize that many truck owners are driving much more than they need.

    Of course we're being hypothetical here because GM isn't selling anything yet.

    Anyone out there know how many Malibu Hybrids have been sold or are slated to be built?
  • hwyhobohwyhobo Posts: 263
    the accord was a performance hybrid that was real fun to drive,and I could care less about any mpg savings with that car.looking forward to more performance hybrids

    Considering it was a flop and Honda had to put it out of its misery, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for more of that genre.
  • tpetpe Posts: 2,342
    Lexus makes some performance hybrids, of course they're a little pricey.
  • fshifshi Posts: 57
    "getting a 10 percent gain (or even 20%) in a truck is more important than the Prius getting a 40% gain over a comprable compact?

    If a Chevy Suburban can go from 18 mpg to 20; that is more important than a compact going from 30 mpg to 45? How do you figure? Every bit helps, but to say that a truck hybrid does more for the environment than the Prius is hard to accept. "

    where do you get the numbers, Tahoe goes from 14/20 to 20/21, 30 to 45 is local, percentage wise it is the same as Tahoe goes from 14/20. Now, do you understand which is more important?

    "Sure the Suburban can do more when it's fully loaded, but that's about 3% of the time it's being used. For 97% of your daily driving, the Prius will suffice. But it takes a change in attitude to get people to realize that many truck owners are driving much more than they need."

    You need to convince big suv buyers to abandon this segment, you do not even need a hybrid, live closer to where you work, and ride a bicycle, that is good for you health too
  • fshifshi Posts: 57
    "So where are you pulling your numbers from? I think I know. You can't average numbers like that. That's just playing the numbers to fit your attempt to justify GMs junk. 33 vs 24, 34 vs 32."

    I assume average person drive 50% local and 50% highway, you may be different you never drive on highway.

    The rest of the statement is just repeating what you said before, and we are arguing in a loop. Relax my friend, and have a nice day.
  • tpetpe Posts: 2,342
    If a Chevy Suburban can go from 18 mpg to 20; that is more important than a compact going from 30 mpg to 45? How do you figure?

    First off let's use real figures. The Honda Civic gets an epa average of 29 mpg. The Civic Hybrid gets 42 mpg. So over 15,000 miles the Civic owner could save 160 gallons by switching to the hybrid version.

    The Chevy Tahoe gets 16 mpg, the Tahoe Hybrid gets 21. Over this same 15,000 miles the hybrid version will save 223 gallons. An additional 39% fuel savings over the Civic.

    I can be argued that the Tahoe driver could save even more by transitioning to a smaller vehicle. I think we need to live in the real world. The Tahoe driver was not cross shopping this vehicle with Civics, Camrys, Accords, etc.. It is far more likely that he could be induced into purchasing a Tahoe Hybrid than a Camry or Civic hybrid. And the trucks/SUVs in this country use over 60% of the fuel while the passenger fleet uses less than 40%. If your goal is to save the most fuel, which group would you target first? However going from 29 to 42 mpg sounds much more impressive than going from 16 to 21 mpg and for a mathematically challenged populus it probably also makes for an easier sale.
  • jntjnt Posts: 316
    Your argument is correct for $3.00/gallon gas price. But if the price goes to $7-8/gallon like in Europe, then the US vehicle mix could change to favor cars or smaller vehicles (<4000 lbs). People will respond accordingly when every fill up costs them $100. A few years back who could imagine cars like Fit, Aveo, Cobalt, Focus, Sentra, Civic,... are in great demand today?

    Hope that new tech like clean diesel, light weight design, EV, Plug-in hybrid, ...will reduce the fill-up pain. Any improvement in MPG helps regardless how small since they all add up. Today some available technology could provide cars with better gas mileage in newer designs. They will add cost to vehicle, but may be lower than the full hybrid price tag of $6K-$10K

    1. 6 speed AT : 3-5% in improvement
    2. VCM or AFC (cylinder shut off); 5-10%
    3. Light Weight: 2-3%
    4. Stop/Start 5-10% (more for Chicago and LA traffic)
    5. Turbo Diesel: 30%
    6. Small Turbo Gas: ?
    7. Direct Gas injection : 2-3%, cleaner exhaust, more HP
    8. Better Aerodynamic 2-3% (more for boxy truck)

    jt
  • tpetpe Posts: 2,342
    I agree that as gas prices go up more people will place a higher priority on fuel efficiency, meaning a lot of drivers will be giving up their full sized SUVs.

    Let's look at this totally independent of fuel prices. I believe that the biggest advantage of hybrid technology is the ability to recapture kinetic energy lost due to braking. That being the case there will always be more energy lost on vehicles with more mass. So that's where there is the most energy to recapture, i.e. the biggest benefit. In terms of fuel savings the absolue best application of hybrid technology would be in transit buses and delivery trucks. The least benefit would be in vehicles with small mass. The problem is that no one's impressed by a metro bus that has increased its fuel efficiency from 3 mpg to 5 mpg but they are impressed by a Prius that gets 50 mpg.

    Again, while Toyota's hybrid technology may be impressive their choice of application is driven by how it will affect their image. I don't give them credit for being "greener" than GM but I do give them credit for realizing the value of image and how it affects their bottom line. I think that GM has also realized this and have tipped their hat to Toyota's insight into how the consumer's mind works.

    I think that GM might have actually given the consumer too much credit. While Toyota took a page from P. T. Barnum and subscribed to the philosophy, "you'll never go broke underestimating the stupidity of the American people".
  • The Tahoe may get more technically but, you will still pay twice as much for fuel to drive something that's rarely used to it's full potential.
  • nedzelnedzel Posts: 787
    actually talk about the Malibu Hybrid, instead of "GM sucks", "no it doesn't", "yes it does" over and over and over?
  • Actually, since the new Vue two-mode uses the 3.6l (if I remember what I read?), it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to see this making its way into the passenger cars in the not-to-distant future. The Vue uses a transverse mounted engine, and I think the new two-mode is front-drive only. So the transmission and engine layout are there. The only question is whether the package would fit under the Aura / 'bu hood, and possibly where to put the batteries..

    And for all the griping about 'only 2 mpg'- 10% better without changing your driving habits and locale isn't anything to sneeze at. Sure, I can (and routinely do) get 10-15% better than most people in similar vehicles on the same route I drive, but that's driving the speed limit, anticipating slowdowns / speedups (egg-under the accelerator method), etc. Add another 2 mpg for the mild-hybrid at very little up front cost, and things look pretty good. All without the relatively large compromises being made for the competition's full hybrids (lost trunk space- Camry, lurching- Camry, weird packaging- Prius, heavy dependence on the batteries for overall results- both Camry and Prius).

    Don't get me wrong here, those compromises are fine if the end result of the maximum fuel savings is your goal, but most of us out here would like to not pay an arm and a leg for the car, or give up space (it's a PASSENGER car for a reason), or be able to carry 4 folks and their luggage on a trip, or even deal with strange drivetrain feel daily. To each his own. The mild hybrid is a good way to maximize existing powertrain efficiency without extreme expense or any real sacrifice in the capability of the platform in question.
  • tooninertooniner Posts: 1
    Regarding the 2008 Malibu mild hybrid, there's a bit more to the "why bother?" question than the EPA estimated 2 mpg increase.

    Caveat: I've never owned a GM product nor work for any car industry concern.

    + Mild hybrids like the design in the Malibu and Aura are relatively simple when compared to dual-mode hybrids. The reduced system complexity and small size of mild-hybrid components (its electric motor-generator (MG) fits in the ICE-only Malibu's alternator position) means that many car models could add the mild-hybrid feature.
    + The main fuel-saving strategy is to cut fuel supply when the engine is not powering motion, i.e. at rest (auto-stop) and deceleration (regenerative braking).
    + A minor benefit to regenerative braking is decreased use of brakes, thereby promising a maintenance savings for those components.
    + The MG is used for power assist during acceleration. While it is nothing like a performance hybrid Lexus or Accord, the mild hybrid should have equivalent pick-up to its ICE-only cousin despite a bit more weight. If the stars align, it could have marginally better acceleration or improved fuel economy during acceleration, or both.

    Here's a link to an SAE article about the GM mild hybrid system as included in the 2007 VUE. From what I've read about the Aura and Malibu mild hybrids, they are very similar.

    http://home.rochester.rr.com/ebay342/saturn%20hybrid.pdf

    Happy reading!
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Posts: 833
    Anyone know the count of Malibu Hybrids sold?

    I'll bet not much.

    meanwhile the Toyot Prius and Camry Hybrid are selling pretty well.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    Can't buy them if the dealers don't have them.I have not seen a single Aura or Malibu hybrid at a local dealer.
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Posts: 833
    actually there is one guy reporting on his new MH who loves the car.

    he's impressed with his gas milege of 30 mpg on his 2.4 litre 4 cyl. hybrid :surprise:
  • jerrywimerjerrywimer Posts: 588
    I haven't looked on the fueleconomy.gov website to verify this, but the mild hybrids should have an advantage that appeals to most 'greenie' eco-friendly types, in that it shuts the engine down at a stop. This should greatly reduce emissions for the average driver over other four cylinder cars, and is painless, since the car is taking car of all the work itself. (I do the same in my vehicles manually, any time I'm stopped for any extended period of time- as at train crossings, long slow lights, in line at fast food places, etc.)
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,798
    "actually there is one guy reporting on his new MH who loves the car.

    he's impressed with his gas milege of 30 mpg on his 2.4 litre 4 cyl. hybrid"

    FWIW, I'm getting 31 MPG in my AWD FEH hybrid, which is an SUV rather than a passenger car... thus not super impressed by that MH number. The FWD version is rated at 34 city.
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Posts: 833
    "mild hybrids should have an advantage"

    as opposed to non hybrids? :confuse:
  • jerrywimerjerrywimer Posts: 588
    Yes. As opposed to non hybrids. Sorry if that was unclear.
  • packer3packer3 Posts: 277
    Very impressive I was getting between 32 and 37 mpg on straight highway driving
    on my old 2004 V6 200 hp Malibu, anyone who is looking for a great used car with great highway mileage get your hands on the V6 200 hp Malibu you will not be disapointed whats so ever. Just dont get it for city driving it averaged 15 to 16 mpg.

    My car had the trip computer take one for test ride on a highyway and set the computer within 10 miles you will be in the 30's I also use to check the gas mileage manually and it was the same
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,798
    "Very impressive I was getting between 32 and 37 mpg on straight highway driving on my old 2004 V6 200 hp Malibu, anyone who is looking for a great used car with great highway mileage get your hands on the V6 200 hp Malibu you will not be disapointed whats so ever. Just dont get it for city driving it averaged 15 to 16 mpg. "

    I was being tongue-in-cheek; anyone considering a vehicle should think about what kind of miles they will use. If 80-90% of the miles are in the city, then a hybrid may be the right choice. If most of your miles are on the highway, other vehicles may be the best choice.

    Most of my miles are in the city, so my Ford Escape Hybrid was a good choice for me.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    Hybrids get better highway mileage than non-hybrids, but the Malibu and Aura are nothing special on the highway.I probably do as well with my 2006.5 Optima.The Prius and the Civic wybrids get over 40 Hwy,so well worth the price if one is buying a new car. :)
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,798
    "Hybrids get better highway mileage than non-hybrids, but the Malibu and Aura are nothing special on the highway.I probably do as well with my 2006.5 Optima.The Prius and the Civic wybrids get over 40 Hwy,so well worth the price if one is buying a new car."

    It depends upon whether or not the Prius is a large enough car. The Prius was too small for my purposes.

    If you just need transportation, a Honda Fit or Toyota Yaris can produce high 30's MPG, and cost many thousands less than a Civic hybrid or a Prius.
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Posts: 833
    anyone still think GM is deserving of it's "green" marketing?

    Someone was talking about how GM is targeting the segment where people consume more fuel i.e. larger SUV's. How their contribution will have more impact than that of the Pruis.

    Any sales to report for GM hybrids?

    I did see someone post how they ordered a Tahoe Hybrid at MSRP. :surprise: They were commenting on how they didn't have to pay any dealer mark up for a dinasour (non hybrid) that is easily purchased for 10k under MSRP.

    I think GM will spend alot more on promoting their commitment to being green then they will on the technology itself. And the sales, or lack of, of their hybrids is proof enough. It's a desperate ploy for a company on it's knees imo.

    There's a waiting list for the Prius once again. Who's waiting to buy a GM hybrid?
  • bhill2bhill2 Posts: 1,360
    I would be interested to see figures on how sales of the Tahoe Hybrid are going now that they have the 2-stage hybrid. This hybrid seems to provide an impressive decrease in fuel consumption.

    Presently the Malibu Hybrid is a 'mild' hybrid, which is another way of saying what aspesisteve did, that it is an excuse for GM to promote their commitment to being green without actually having to provide the technology. However, if GM adapted the 2-stage to the Malibu, I think they might have a mainstream car that could actually make a real difference.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv, 2001 Jaguar XK cnv, 1985 MB 380SE (the best of the lot)

  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Posts: 833
    General Motors put their better more sophisticated 2 mode hybrid system that is being strapped on the Tahoe into the Malibu?

    It would be interesting to see what they could get in milege here.
  • mike_mpgmike_mpg Posts: 1
    The problem now is the premium on a Prius. The payback before took about 4 years compared to a Toyota Corolla. With A $2000 premium it takes over 8 years. A comment about all hybrid systems. They only provide benefit for frequent stop-and-go driving. If you're an LA freeway driver, then this is the car for you. If you are driving long distances without a break, then a diesel like the Jetta is the car for you. The prius can get high 40s on the highway too, but because of good aero drag, narrow tires and a very small engine (1.5L) running Atkinson cycle. I used to think the mild hybrids offered by GM were pointless too, but they also shut off on coast and at intersections, making them lower emissions cars in that use. The 2.4L engine also runs Atkinson cycle, which improves economy a bit, but the car is much bigger and heavier than a Prius. There may be no premiums on the Malibu Hybrid and since GM is hurting right now, you may be able to score an incentive from GM as well as the IRS incentive. The IRS incentive for Prius may have already been used up. Hmmmmm. I personally love the styling of the Malibu, but that doesn't save any gas.
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Posts: 833
    it's not just about payback, sometimes people just want to have a smaller foot print on the world - that's why some choose to put solar panels on their roof even if it takes 12 years to break even.

    if you get pleasure out of giving to charity, then think of the planet as a great cause.
    the Prius is a huge success for Toyota. It definitely took some vision and strategy to get it to market and make people want them. Now they are waiting in line for them.

    GM isn't offering discounts on the hybrid Tahoe (that I know of) - as for the hybrid Malibu, I don't think anyone cares because the bonus is so minute.
  • rjsplacerjsplace Posts: 1
    All the engineering an GM comes up with a mild Hybrid that gets you a sticker on the car that says Hybrid but little else.Lets hope the VOLT actually gets produced but it wont be early 2010 I bet. I have a 2006 Grand Prix 3800 engine one of GMs finest engines good for 200,000 miles and I get 30 miles to the gallon Highway.But of course GM is discontinuing it. So if you want reliabilty and good mileage buy any GM product with a 3800 while still available.
This discussion has been closed.