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Lemon Law Questions

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  • cccompsoncccompson Posts: 2,388
    This isn't a lemon law (or buy back) case at all - forget it.

    File a small claims case against the dealer. Present your case or settle.

    And then let go of this and get on with your life.

    P.S. It is VERY difficult to follow long posts that don't utilize paragraphs.
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,020

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    Very nice, now what happens if you buy a used car from a private party?

    The solution, as always is to pay a little more and get a CPO car.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,150
    The solution, as always is to pay a little more and get a CPO car.

    Well, I don't personally think it has to be CPO. But I do agree to buy from a dealer most times, as you get that added protection of the law (as long as the car qualifies, which varies by state, I think).

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    Well, I don't personally think it has to be CPO. But I do agree to buy from a dealer most times, as you get that added protection of the law (as long as the car qualifies, which varies by state, I think).

    Some states are pretty weak. Why take the chance?
  • I'm in the middle of pursuing a BBB claim against Honda in regards to my 2009 Odyssey. I am not represented by an attorney, although I have looked into it. This is a different sort of claim than most I've read about here. The vehicle initially had a major engine oil leak, which has been repaired. Since that time, it has had a whole slew of other problems, some of which have been major, that I believe were caused by the original repair. The manufacturer has already attempted a final repair, and while they did get the outstanding issues addressed, a mechanic I hired has found an additional problem. It has not quite hit the 30 days in the shop required by my state's laws, but it has had over three repair attempts if you lump all of the problems together.

    Is the BBB process quicker than a lawsuit? Does anyone have any experience where the poor workmanship of warranty repairs, rather than a single issue, were used in a lemon law claim? Any other advice or insight would be appreciated.

    Thanks!
  • exb0exb0 Posts: 539
    It is unfortunate that you have so many problems with your Odyssey. It used to be a good quality vehicle. I had my 07 Odyssey lemoned earlier this year for brake issues. I used a lawyer, and it took almost a year for Honda to settle. They waited till about a month before the trial date. Honda generally plays hardball when it comes to lemon law. Depending on your state law, the manufacturer pays your legal fees if you win your case.

    Unfortunately, in your case, you will have hard time wining your case. Usually, they have three attempts to fix the same problem, or 30 days in repair shop. Most states have a time limit. In VA you can only file within 18 months from the purchase date.

    As far as BBB or lawyer, it really doesn’t matter. If you loose your BBB case, you can still hire a lawyer and sue them. I prefer using the lawyer, because they tell you up front if you have a case, and they do all the leg and paperwork. Good luck.
  • Hmm...Well, I'm disappointed to hear that this will be a difficult case. I was honestly hoping Honda might cave. Either way, though, I intend on taking this as far as I have to.

    Essentially, what happened is this: We were on vacation. A dealer fixed the oil leak by replacing the short block and rebuilding the engine. That took a week. Two hours after picking up the vehicle from that repair, the car dropped all of it's coolant. Another week in the shop...at a different dealer. They also knocked the alignment out. Since then, we've discovered a crimped hose (which took 3 trips to the dealer), noises which were caused by missing nuts and bolts (another 3 trips to the dealer, counting an unnecessary strut replacement and the final repair), and another lesser oil leak. Add to that the fact that now the tie rod end boots are split and leaking grease (which I was told by the mechanic occurred during the engine rebuild) and I've about had it up to here. I'm not at 30 days yet...but I'm close.

    The real issue is that first repair. I mean...who really forgets to put back all the nuts and bolts? And why is it my responsibility to hire a mechanic to identify things that were not repaired properly?

    Thanks for your input. I guess I should be prepared for the long haul. Are there any car companies more interested in customer satisfaction than American Honda?
  • exb0exb0 Posts: 539
    Wow, that’s a lot of repairs, and they all seem to be related. Have you ever send the “last chance” letter to Honda? Generally it’s a requirement for lemon laws.

    “which I was told by the mechanic occurred during the engine rebuild”. Get that in writing, and send Honda the last chance letter before you go to the dealer.

    That’s what’s great about having a lawyer. They’ll tell exactly what you need to do, and my lawyer hired an expert who inspected the van and drafted a report. The same person would have been the expert witness at the trial. If you have multiple issues to fix, don’t fix them on same trip. Have them fix it one at a time, after you send the letter.
  • ......DRAMAAAAAAA !!!
    OK so let me start and mention that I'm a 24 yr old female and this is my 1st car purchase( WHAT A NIGHTMARE!). I purchased a "certified" used Chevy equinox 06 on October 16th,2009. The day of the purchase I had gone back and fourth with the dealership, loved the car and wanted it. I needed a cosigner so I had my grandpa help me. The dealership calls me and says " Wow, amazing your credit score combined has got you a even better interest rate something like 7%". I'm think oh shindig that's awesome. The say we go to sign all the paper work I ask to see the car before going through. The dealership says its being prepared and is not ready so I should just take care of the paper work and then I'll have the car. Whatever okay I sign but wait, NOT THE TOP LINE the sales man says the bottom... okay?? But.. I thought my grandfather was the co-signer so isn't her supposed to be on the bottom line ...? Well yeah..? no..? You are both the owners but this is the way it has to be done says the sales man..
    OK so we get in the car and the cars odometer says that the car has 43,500 miles on it?? But all the paper work and the mileage advertised
    was 38,500.
    Once I realize I try and rectify the problem with GM corp and I contact the dealership. They both say that the problem will be taken care of and that it will take a few weeks to be updated in their system. I was very concerned because I didn't want warranty to be affected.Then, 4 days after purchasing the car and 3 days after realizing the mileage was incorrect the ENGINE LIGHT comes on.
    Fast Forward to today... ( December 1st)
    Ive been to the Chevy mechanics in my hometown 4 times because of the same on going problem that can't be solved. The dealership has been dodging our calls, not returning our calls or giving me the paper work with the correct mileage.I am becoming increasingly concerned about this issue and very worried. Should I return the car..? If so how can I have the lemon law apply to me when the mileage on the car is what determines how long you have the lemon law. And with that said the mileage on the odometer was different from the one written on all the paperwork.
    Now fast forward into the FUTURE.... If I cannot get this problem with the engine light solved after FOUR times of going to the dealership in a 6 week period, then it will never get solved and I won't be able to ever pass inspection in the future.

    Is it a lemon? Because I think it is..? And what can I do ?? I feel stuck ... :( :O(*************
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    I doubt your car qualifies as lemon but since it was a Certified used car, your problems should be covered by warranty. here's a link to the GM Certified web page: http://www.gmcertified.com/certified/whatis/

    I would contact GM customer service and talk to them about your engine light problem. I would also discuss (calmly) the problems you had when buying the car.
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    Let's see, you have several items here.

    1) Top line or bottom line. You have two things here. To me, 'co-signing' mean a second person signs as being responsible for paying for the LOAN if the first person stops paying. But, more than ONE person can also be the OWNER OF A VEHICLE (me and my wife both own all our cars). A loan co-signer does not necessarily have to be a co-owner. So, you need to look at your paperwork and determine what went on with your purchase. There should be loan papers showing who is the primary on the loan and who co-signed. There should be ownership/title papers showing who owns the car.

    2) Milage. Look at the paperwork for the 'certified' policy. It will show what is covered, for how long (time), and how many miles. Some 'certifications' are only good for 3 months/4,500miles after you buy the car. Some are for 4,5,6 years/60, 80, 100,000 miles total age/milage of the car. You need to look and see what you got with a 'certification'. If throughout the purchase you thought you were buying a car with 38,500 miles, but the odometer says 43,500 miles, this difference could be a problem. If you only have 'certification' that lasts for 4,500 miles after you bought it, then you are already out of this milage period. The dealership needs to resolve this problem and get the appropriate paperwork corrected and re-issued.

    3) Check engine light. What is the 'unsolveable' check engine problem? Is this being covered under the 'certification'? The answer to this question should be a Yes or No answer. (Am I right in that you bought the car in one place and are taking it to another place for this problem's repair?) If this is a covered item, and is not going to cost any money to repair, ask a direct question - Can you fix my car? If they answer No, then take it somewhere else.

    4) What state are you in? In general, most used car have NO 'Lemon Law' warranty, only new cars can be. But I think some states do require even used cars to have some kind of 'implied' warranty. Give the state you bought the car, people in that state can respond and tell you if there is some state law that might cover the car.

    I'm sorry for the problem you are having with what is probably the first car you have ever owned. If you spend some time reading the paperwork you received, and giving more info on the above items, there may be some additional answers the readers of this forum can give you.
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    In general, I don't agree. I feel in 90% of the time, an inspection is almost worthless. You will pay $100/$200 and have little more idea about the future reliability of a car.

    The best mechanic does not have pre-cognition or x-ray vision. He will have no idea if or when something is going to fail in the future.

    For finding things already wrong with the car - I think people should be able to decide during test drives if there is something significantly wrong with a car.

    Does it start quickly? And idle smoothly?
    Is the check engine light on? (For any car, if it is on, run away. Why would anyone buy a car with something wrong staring them in the face?)
    Are there any strange sounds when at idle or when driving. (A test drive is not for testing the radio. Keep it turned off. Play with the radio while sitting on the car lot.)
    Does the heater work?
    Does the AC work?
    Do the brakes stop the car? Are there any noises when braking? Does the car/brake peddle pulse/vibrate or make any noise while braking.
    Does the car pull? Drive the car at highway speeds. Does it vibrate or not track well.
    Look at the tires. Are they 'matched'. Do they have a lot of tread left?
    Do all the lights, turn signal light, and brake lights work?
    Open the hood. Even if you have no idea what's under there, look. Is it dirty, oily, greasy? Is there a missing cap or dipstick? Has someone been cutting into the wiring, hoses, or ducts? (Also inside - if there are wires handing down under the dash, this is bad.) Are there unplugged hoses?
    Does the car have an aftermarket security system, remote starter, or an aftermarket stereo system? All of these WILL cause problems.

    If any of these items are not right, walk away. There are thousands of used cars for sale nearby, in anyone's location.

    Other than the above, no one is going to be able to tell if, for example, the alternator, battery, transmission, power seat, etc, etc, etc is going to soon fail. Or continue to work fine for 10 years and 100,000 miles.

    Of course, the above is for someone with some amount of what is called 'common sense'. For people with none, maybe spending $200 would be a good deal.
  • brown2428brown2428 Posts: 9
    edited March 2010
    A week before i was supposed to go to arbitration with the BBB agaist GM, GM offered to repurchase my vehicle, if I stopped arbitration. Well, I believed them and stopped arbitration and started looking for another vehilce. Little did I know they were going to treat the replacement like a trade. The car dealer wanted over 3,000 dollars down and tried to charge me 13% intrest. I walked out on the deal because my understanding of replacement is you exchange cars. I didn't know I would have to pay a higher interest than what I already have on my previous car and put money down. Everytime I call the GM rep that is dealing with the car dealership,he tells me he will take care of it and contact me back, but he always go to the dealership first and most of the time I hear from the car dealership instead of him. The car dealer lowered the interest to 9.39 then 8 then back to 9.39. The car dealer changed the down payments and interes rates so much, I didn't want to work with them anymore. They told me they had to go back up on my interest rate because they had to run my credit again and my score ha dropped 12pts, which was not true, according to the credit score I paid for through the credit bureau. I told GM person I didn't want to work with this car dealership and he said I didn't have to, later changed that statment and told me I had to. I don't understand why i have to drive 19 miles to work with a dealership of their choice, when I have 3 GM dealerships within 5 miles of my home. I don't uderstand why a replacement is being treated as a trade. I don't understand why the GM rep never calls me back when I call him with questions or problems with the dealership, he aways go to the dealership and they call me with more bull. Can anyone give me any insight on how a repurchase deal is suppose to be handled? I am thinking about contacting a lawyer to handle this for me. Any advice, information or suggestions will be most welcomed. Thanks in advance for any help or advice that anyone can give.

    Sheryl
  • duke15duke15 Posts: 161
    I recommend using a lawyer. I did with another manufacturer and they bought my car back, to include any interest I paid on the loan and insurance on the car, plus my lawyer's fees.
  • tuggajbtuggajb Posts: 646
    get a lawyer
  • Does anyone know what the effect is on your credit score when a dealer re purchases your car due to the lemon law? I filed for arbitration and when the dealership received the papers, they immediately called to settle and repurchase the car. I'm concerned because they do the same thing on a repo I believe, and I was wondering if this would have a negative effect? I can't find this answer anywhere, any help is greatly appreciated.
  • It shouldn't have any effect if your payments were made on time.
  • exb0exb0 Posts: 539
    Your question doesn't make sense to me. In my experience it is the manufacturer who is repurchasing the car, instead of the dealer. Dealer does the repairs and provides the facility for the manufacturer's agent to take the delivery of the car.

    Is it a used car, and what state do live in?
  • bab66bab66 Posts: 1
    I just purchased a brand new 2011 ford fiesta- by brand new I mean it had about 10 miles on it. It has had issues starting atleast 4 times but I don't know that each time would count according to the rules to file it as a lemon. Anyway here is the info on each time. I have two service records but atleast 4 records from roadside assistance- I don't even have my license plate or registration yet it was purchased last month around the second week of october.

    1) wouldn't start- called roadside they jumped and it worked. drove straight to dealership they tested the battery for maybe a minute said it was fine and sent me away.

    2) wouldn't start- called roadside they jumped it again. I brought it in but they couldn't find anything wrong with it. They said they were leaving the ticket open in case an issue happened within the next few days so I took it home after a day or two.

    3) wouldn't start- service department said to tow it instead of jumping it sothat they could see the problem while it occured. since it was sunday the driver wouldn't tow it to them sooo i jumped it and drove it in. they couldn't get it to act up after a few days so they changed the battery and gave it back.

    4) wouldn't start- towed it this time! they said it started right up when it got there. they kept it until it acted up for them. got through to ford had to replace a part, something about the computer. they gave it back to me a few days ago.

    5) wouldn't start- today is sunday so i can't tow it again. will send it back in the morning since they are closed today. Also, a few times it has taken two tries to get it going.

    - So, I have two service records from all of this because the first time they didn't really check it and they counted some of the other times together. I can get info from roadside although each tow truck driver didn't give me anything to sign (now i realize i should have asked!) Does this count? do I need to wait until I have two more issues? It's really an inconvenience to not know when my car is going to work. I have checked around and other fiesta owners don't have issues.

    Also my mom mentioned that there is a possibility that this car had been messed with before I purchased it. It's a specific color that the lot was low on. They had one when we went but it was in the shop (the salesman drove us around to find the color I wanted, showed us one, and mentioned they were taking parts off of it to put on another car...i should have left right then! it's my first car purchase so i wasn't as thorough as i should have been) but we were told that mine was coming from another location. Anyway...is it a lemon and what do I do next?
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