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Chevrolet Malibu vs. Toyota Camry vs. Honda Accord

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Comments

  • blufz1blufz1 Posts: 2,045
    Those are high prices! You have to grind them! See the negotiation thread! See how Jeffyscott got a great deal. Your beginning offer sb Dealer cost less 3% holdback less all incentives to dealer= starting point offer. "Your mission,should you decide to accept it,"is to let the dealer make no more than 75% of the holdback. See edmunds for Dealer costs and Mfg. to dealer incentives and rebates. Don't pay more!
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Who is going to buy these V8 Impalas? A heavier, torque steer inducing, low reliability engine, in an already front heavy FWD car. Hope Chevy doesn't plan to dig out of the hole, with ideas like this one.
  • dave8697dave8697 Posts: 1,498
    I live in US. These are US prices. They DO NOT SELL an SE in my area. You didn't explain the $5000 difference I questioned. Then out comes your misperception. You called an engine you know nothing about unreliable. Based on what data on that engine? You need to cut down the car based on pure opinion and misperception. You haven't driven the SS car. It's an all aluminum engine. You didn't know that either? Don't you know the Chev has a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty that far exceeds the powertrain warranty Honda offers. Would they be offering that on things unreliable? The '05 Impala ran ahead of Mercedes' latest SUV on the Baja race course to clear it for the Mercedes test drivers. The Mercedes gave the Impala a 1 minute head start and couldn't ever catch the Impala. That should answer handling questions.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    The fact is, the "V8 engined Impala" has below average reliability in CR ratings ( like just about every other V8 model car GM makes). I am not the only one with this perception. Check it out for yourself.
    I can copy and paste it for you, if you like, sir.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Those prices are outrageous.

    There would have to be $5000 in incentives on the Honda EX for $23,000. It may not have been a V6?

    It was an EX-V6.

    First of all, invoice on the Accord is $24,820. Subtract $750 in incentive money and you are right at $24,070. Subtract 3% holdback, ($722) and you have $23,347. With these figures, a $24,000 or lower price shouldn't be hard to negotiate, especially when financing through Honda. Add to the fact that dealers want to move all the 2007 models they can so they get the most ultra-profitable 2008 models allotted to them as possible.

    By the way, Destination is $595. Your prices reflect a $695 destination? (27,400 is MSRP for EXV6, destination si $595 = $27,995 Sticker). Small difference, but hey, if you could save $100 wouldn't you?

    By the way, is the Impala included in this forum? It is a full-sized car, these are all midsizers. Seems like the Malibu is the competitor here sizewise.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    No they won't -- New Impala to be a RWD, which may have a positive impact.
    Looks for 2009 model as being a turn-around. Not that Impalas in FWD do not sell. Have no idea why one would want a V8 in one. It was designed to have a V6 from day one.

    Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Well, I have no idea why Honda would not sell the SE in your area. The Accord is the best car one can buy. That said, if you want an Impala SS, by all means go for it! That will be the car you are most happy with. The hot Impala is going to be the RWD one. Those with FWD and a V8 will have little value once the RWD cars hit the market place. I would think the V6 in the Impala would be the way to go, until the RWD hits the market. With a heavier foot, don't expect the 8-4 engine to give all that good of gas mileage.
    -Loren
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    No they won't -- New Impala to be a RWD,

    RWD sounds better, for a V8 powered car. Following Chrysler's lead on this one (300/Charger), I guess. I don't understand why though. The Impala is Chevy's best selling car, the way it is now (FWD V6).
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    if I'm not mistaken the Impala is #3 behind the Camcords with the Altima holding 4th. You have to wonder, however, how many of those 'sales' are to corporate/governmental fleet buyers and/or rental cos. Last time I heard GM was losing $2500 on every car they 'sold'.
    I agree with you, if GM needs touse that wealth of experience they have in V8s it is better placed in a RWD chassis somehting they already have - then Australian Holden. Haven't been able to figure out why they haven't put the 3.6 (the best engine GM has right now with less than 8 cylinders) in the FWD Impala though - may be a question of keeping some old pushrod engine plants running to keep the UAW happy, as well as a lack of production capacity.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    The Impala is a bit larger inside, and is now priced at or below $20K for starter cars, with some sale prices below $19k. So it makes sense as something to buy for say a company car. Haul people around, and is a bit larger than a Honda or Toyota. The new car looks better inside and out, as in closer to the competition. This helped sales. Certainly looks better than the current Malibu. It did lose some of the Impala look, but what the heck, we are talking making a sale now, while waiting for the New Impala which is a totally new car. Yeah, there will be NEW cars coming. At least cars we currently can no buy in the States, are arriving soon. And the Impala is going to have NEW skin... totally new, yeaaaa!

    I got a Honda Accord, so I guess I won't need another car for a few hundred thousand miles ;)
    Loren
  • dave8697dave8697 Posts: 1,498
    CR is a Japanese car buyer's club. They can't even have much data on the 303 HP Impala all aluminum V8 with DoD. 2007 is the first year. They berate all American cars to the extent that only Japanese car buyers will subscribe to CR. That has led to only Japanese car owners doing surveys for CR and since they all love their cars so much, they under-report their problems with them. People who are happy with their American cars are not represented in their surveys except when they get so angry with a car problem that they subscribe just to do a survey. There are not many American car owners who are represented. Japanese car owners love the magazine because it praises all their Japanese cars. CR constantly berates a new American model that is new from the ground up based on prior models. How is that justified? CR is worthless. Japanese car buyers are probably upset by J.D. Powers, who rate the Chevrolet models as better than the average of all Japanese models in the first 3 yrs of ownership. They probably think JD is lying. CR is definitely not a impartial judge of any all-new American car.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Then I guess you would say just about all of the magazines that do car testing are bias against "American" cars too. Like Car & Driver, Edmonds, and many others, who mostly rate the Toyotas and Hondas higher. When CR (or any other car reviewer) does not have enough information on a new car, all they can do is predict the reliability. When a certain car has been proven reliable over the past 15-20 years, it's safe to say the new model will also be reliable. When a car has a history of average reliability, you can reasonably predict the next model to be about the same. Dave, are you saying all these car comparison tests, and car reviews are simply false, and we are being lied to? Do all these car reviewers really think "the Malibu is better than the Accord" but are somehow forced to say otherwise? It's a conspiracy, right?
  • blufz1blufz1 Posts: 2,045
    You may have thought too much about this.
  • shadow5599shadow5599 Posts: 101
    I got a Honda Accord, so I guess I won't need another car for a few hundred thousand miles

    You make it sound like ALL Hondas and no other vehicles go to several hundred thousand miles. Both are completely false. I've had several go that distance, and never owned a Honda. Any car to go that distance needs good care and a good driver. Even so, it's a man made mechanical device, things will break.

    How many cars have you owned Loren? And for how long?
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    13 cars, I do believe. But I may have missed one or double counted one along the way and I ran out of fingers. Never owned a long lasting American make. And the Opel did not last too long, as I got a bum motor. Normally, they were good cars, from what I hear. Best so far, all the Japan cars. Most woes, the Oldsmobiles. Ford Mustang was so-so. This is my first Honda car, though I owned a couple Honda motorcycles. Anyway, it is getting late, and the mind is not as sharp. I will have to write down each car and rate each one some day.
    Loren

    P.S. Dad had a good Olds Cutlass Supreme '71 or was that '72. Pretty cool looking car and farily reliable. All his car overheated on vacations though. All sucked gas. But the Cutlass and Buick LeSabre were sharp looking. I got into the sad era though for GM cars. :cry: Not to say I did not have fun driving. Hey, driving such wonders as the Starfire '76 :D
    Loren
  • shadow5599shadow5599 Posts: 101
    13 cars, I do believe. But I may have missed one or double counted one along the way and I ran out of fingers.

    Hey, 'bout the same as me then. But on the opposite side of each other. Funny how things go. All my vehicles have been North American. Reliable, trouble free and long lasting.
    One exception, I do now own a 96 Escort which isnt really a Ford, it's a Mazda Protege. Tis my 1st foreign car!

    I think all we're proving here is that any manufacturer has the potential to make exceptional vehicles and has a history of good and bad vehicles. In the end, I still dont believe there's alot of difference between a good GM model and a good Honda or Toyota model. Or has Honda been using some of that metal from Mars which I'm sure HAS to be better than earth's metals. Nobody can say that those 2 havent made crappy vehicles, they've had their share as well as anyone.

    I know it's not part of this topic but just wanted to say...
    Last year at this time when I was shopping, I came very close to buying a brand new 06 Sonata which after all was said and done came to about $25,000. I noticed the other day a few 06's for sale at about $15,000. That depreciation is the same as most North American cars. I have to be extra happy now that I didnt go for it.

    Oh but wait, perhaps if I had, I could just say, sure I lost $10k in 1 year but hell, I'm drivin a foreign car, and it's GOT to better than anything made here....right? You may ask, then why didnt I go for the 03 Accord with 80,000Kms for $20k? Hmmm :confuse:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    CR constantly berates a new American model that is new from the ground up based on prior models. How is that justified? CR is worthless. Japanese car buyers are probably upset by J.D. Powers, who rate the Chevrolet models as better than the average of all Japanese models in the first 3 yrs of ownership. They probably think JD is lying. CR is definitely not a impartial judge of any all-new American car.

    What's the problem here? You think CR is lying, so you assume the Japanese think JD is lying?

    Not EVERYBODY drinks the kool-aid and goes ONLY by what magazines say.
  • dave8697dave8697 Posts: 1,498
    I guess the problem is that the 'just assume the American car is a bad choice, don't even bother to verify this for yourself' mentality is run rampant now, especially on the coasts. Even though there has been tremendous improvement, there is not enough successful marketing strategy being implemented by the Detroit 3 to get consumers to give them a fair shake. The recent higher fuel costs have GM rethinking it's plan. Profits only came from trucks and cars were a hobby. Now they see truck sales drop and suddenly they are losing billions. Gas prices are not going back down so they now have to become a car company again. They will be putting their best efforts into car design after a decade of that being a secondary concern. If we let CR be our judge and jury "When a car has a history of average reliability, you can reasonably predict the next model to be about the same" then far fewer will ever discover the improvements. The new '08 Malibu will be a very good car and instead of 15% of the value coming back to this country, 85% will. That is the opposite ratio of a Civic built in Ohio. I will take the other side and ask people to find real proof that the all new American car is unreliable before concluding it so. It can't be found except in biased opinions so far on here.
  • dave8697dave8697 Posts: 1,498
    I guess the problem is that the 'just assume the American car is a bad choice, don't even bother to verify this for yourself' mentality is run rampant now, especially on the coasts. Even though there has been tremendous improvement, there is not enough successful marketing strategy being implemented by the Detroit 3 to get consumers to give them a fair shake. The recent higher fuel costs have GM rethinking it's plan. Profits only came from trucks and cars were a hobby. Now they see truck sales drop and suddenly they are losing billions. Gas prices are not going back down so they now have to become a car company again. They will be putting their best efforts into car design after a decade of that being a secondary concern. If we let CR be our judge and jury "When a car has a history of average reliability, you can reasonably predict the next model to be about the same" then far fewer will ever discover the improvements. The new '08 Malibu will be a very good car and instead of 15% of the value coming back to this country, 85% will. That is the opposite ratio of a Civic built in Ohio. I will take the other side and ask for real proof that the all new American car is unreliable. It can't be delivered.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    I agree the domestics are good cars. But the Japanese cars are still better and offer the tactiles and ergos that somehow the big two and a half can't nail.

    Why Detroit hasn't done what the Japanese did to us years ago - copy designs and tweak them - is beyond me. I'd love to buy another GM someday.

    Bought 3 vehicles in the past year and a half. A Honda, an Acura and a Nissan. Each time I gave Ford and GM a chance to earn my dollar and each time neither did. C'mon Detroit.
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