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Chevrolet Malibu vs. Toyota Camry vs. Honda Accord

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  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    I am sure the H & P costs the people at least $2K more to start too plus I also bet if there is problems out of warranty it will be a whole lot cheaper to fix the Malibu than the others.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Every time a new Malibu model comes out, GM claims "this one is truely competitive with the Accord/Camry". That has not been the case. So we are supposed to believe them this time? If we can't use past quality, to determine future quality, what are we left with? A test drive? My father's Malibu was great for a couple of years, but aged quickly. My 10 year old Accord with 3 times the mileage, had less moans, groans, and squeaks than my father's 5 year old Malibu, with no more maintenance required, and much less repairs needed. I just don't buy into the idea that GM has suddenly found the fountain of youth for their cars.
  • anon3anon3 Posts: 147
    "One thing that has to change is judging cars based on the past a whole decade or two ago."

    Good post. I totally agree with everything that you wrote.

    If you talk to GMC and Chevy dealers, they will tell you that one of the most frustrating problems that they face is legacy market perception about GM cars being inherently less reliable and a poor value. Like you said, too many people cling to market perceptions from the 80s and 90's, even when Consumer Reports, J.D. Powers, and a host of rating services give many GM vehicles very high marks and recommendations. It's tragic how people fixate on a GM mechanical problem and punish GM, but ignore numerous problems in Hondas... like the transmission problems that you mentioned. It isn't rational.

    What does it say about the quality and intelligence of a person who goes through life relying on decades old information and not learning anything new? Intelligent people grow and improve. So do companies.

    The engineering science of building cars has become so automated, repeatable, and studied that the quality difference between a top rated car and an average rated car is measured by .8 defects per vehicle vs 1.4 defects per vehicle. Either way, you're likely to have 1 problem. The difference is not significant.

    I completely understand why someone would buy an Accord, especially given that the Accord is roomier and has excellent ride quality, comfort etc. I like the Accord also and could easily drive it.

    But I decided to research vehicles and buy the one that was the best value. It was an easy decision when the Malibu cost thousands less, is faster, has better braking, is quieter, has a better warranty, and has more luxury options (like satellite radio, bluetooth, OnStar navigation) for the price.

    Even if the Malibu's Total Cost of Ownership ends up being higher over five years, I will have five years of driving pleasure from a car that is quieter, smoother, faster, and has lots of luxury features that make endless Washington DC traffic jams (second worst in the entire nation) more bearable.

    I've been generally dismissive of American cars for a long time. But, if GM makes a quality vehicle, I will reward them by buying their vehicles and I won't make my decision based on something that happened in 1994.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,042
    >most frustrating problems that they face is legacy market perception about GM cars

    It's always odd that Toyota's sludge and engine/transmission hesitations along with Honda's VCM and transmission failures along with road noise don't get played up like the past GM's problems that some found.

    Cars need to be judged on what they offer in the current and forth-coming models.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    I wonder what all the Honda people think of the media lambasting the new Insight. I sounds like it was made by Yugo. Makes me wonder what the rest of the HOndas are made of. :lemon:
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    >most frustrating problems that they face is legacy market perception about GM cars

    I feel sorry for the Chevy salesman, but who created this "perception"? The "perception" I think is based on facts (cars that simply didn't measure up to the competition). Market perception has nothing to do with my opinion. The reality of owning and driving Accords and Malibus myself, has created my "perception" of them. As far as Consumer Reports and JD Powers in concerned, they had the 2001 Malibu as a "Recommended" car. I would not recommend that car to anyone. It seems "average" reliability, poor quality, and cheap materials, is good enough for CR. Not good enough for me.
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,721
    Nice thing about honda now, is that I can still lease a loaded Accord. A good clean lease deal can be had. Lease turn in is so simple too. I have traded my Accord with minimal negative equity. Which cannot be had on a GM car now. Even in the most perfect condition. I cannot go lease a new Malibu for that cheap or at all. GM didn't just all of a sudden become pretty, you cannot always judge a book by its cover either. The only reason they are creating this new look or perception is because they are bankrupt and don't have a choice. Bankruptcy alone for me is reason enough to stay away at this point. GM has only recently improved in quality, it will take time to prove they have what it takes to be on par with the others. I would say they are getting there now.

    So, considering the new Malibu is night and day different in terms of build and quality compared to the previous model would be too quick to say. It could go both ways. I am not sure. Time will only tell. It is a very sharp looking car with a great offering for the money. I can see why people like them.

    I am certainly not going to bash anyone for driving one either. I will most definitely be impressed by the car if you drive by. I like a lot of cars, but which ones I would drive is my opinion. Heck, I think this Saturn Aura that drives locally here is one sharp looking car. Would I ever get one? No. That is just me. :shades:

    So, I guess at this point it could go both ways. Perhaps GM will prove to do some great things! But, ask yourself this.....would GM be trying to change or doing the improvements now if they weren't forced to do so? Will they uphold these goals when no one is looking?
  • butch100butch100 Posts: 28
    How does a cat. converter go bad at 15K?, if it clogged up then there is an engine management issue that caused way to much unburned fuel into the exhaust system. Don't know how you got stuck with rentals to replace a window switch, those can be replaced in about 5 min. My Malibu is now 4.5 yrs. old and it's soul is just fine!, no major repairs and I'm still running on the original brake pads. Now I'll admit it's value is less than a 4.5 year old Accord, but that is irrelevant to me as I have no plans to trade it until 10 yrs. old and I paid 21K for a car with V6, leather, sunroof, XM, ABS, alloys, P. seats, homelink, remote start w/auto digital climate control, ect. Try getting an Accord loaded like that and your closer to 30K.
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,721
    Well, it did, I am truly believe the converter was bad to begin with. It ran weird, I took it in, they called me up and stated that the converter was bad. They replaced it. Its on my invoice too. I didn't have rentals for the windows, but the other times when trying to diagnose the performance issues.

    The engine is still not running right. The transmission is a bit off. The gas mileage has improved since the new converter. Perhaps a bit more power, but still acts weird. Its intermittently happening. GM stated they'll back their warranty, well, I will use it. I think I have ran up about $1,500 or so in warranty bills. Over silly stuff. Never had that with my Accord or my other 2 VW leases. I do not have time to play games. I work to hard and pay too much to be messed around with.
    But, no car is perfect. But, this is my first GM car too.

    With great deals out, you really don't have to pay $30k for a Honda. I lease, so soon I will have a new car. I will look closely at the new Accord, Acura TSX, VW, or even a new camry.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    I'm betting too that you paid at least 2K more for the Accord than you would have the Malibu.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Sure, but I think the Accord is worth more. When you sell one, you find out most people looking for a used car agree. Just pointing out that you can recoup some (not all) of the higher purchase price, when you sell it. People think a 10 year old car is not worth much, but I got $5,000 for my 12 year old Accord, with 140k miles on it. It would be difficult to get $3000 for a Malibu that old with that many miles on it. Check the prices of 10 year old used Accords and Malibus, and you will still see a substantial difference in the average asking price.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Just checking the Kelly Blue Book value on 10 year old cars (99 models), on MSN Autos. The price range for a 99 Malibu was between $3000 and $3800, and the price range for a 99 Accord was from $5700 to $7500. It's actually more than I thought it would be.
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,721
    You know, its all good. I see many homes in our town that have just GM cars. Some are brand new. Right now actually, if you want a GM car, you should be able to get a great deal. While making that a great choice. However, if you are like me and change cars often. Then, getting a GM car would not be the best idea. You will lose more money on a GM trade than some of the others. Even Honda probably isn't trading as high now. You cannot lease a GM car, so that for me would keep me from getting one. I lease a GM car now(before they stopped leasing), probably most cheap lease out on this company. So I have thought about transferring the lease to someone else. Swapalease?

    Now, if you are going to keep it for many years, than its a decent move. But, GM still needs to convince us that is will hold up to time. You certainly don't see many GM cars around that are year 91 or so that start up each and everyday in the winter like our honda.

    Just because I won't drive another GM car and desperately want out, doesn't make it a bad choice for someone else. I am very much pampered with my car now, its just the engine that leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth. :cry: Never again, Sorry GM!
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,042
    >You certainly don't see many GM cars around that are year 91 or so that start up each and everyday in the winter like our honda.

    There is a plethora of GM cars from the 80s that are driven daily around here. In fact more and more are showing up all the time.

    >the winter like our honda.

    I can't agree with the honda comment. Our friend's 95 Civic often wouldn't start. I'd go over and mess around and finally get it started for her. It wasn't even winter!!! in Ohio. She finally got rid of it and it was rusting out in front of the rear wheels already. At least she didn't have to put one of those tin can mufflers on it like Hondas seem to have around here.

    I believe this thread should stick to comparing the current cars rather than trying to continue to put down GM from the past. I could list off many warts on certain foreign car's image from the past and the present... do we want to go there? I don't think so.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Here in Mich. with the snow and salt you don't see many Honda's or Toyota of those years though you still see many American cars plugging around without much rust.
  • butch100butch100 Posts: 28
    I see PLENTY of 10 year GM's that run fine EVERYDAY! and run just ad well as any honda, please, stop posting until your [non-permissible content removed]-buzz wears off, your starting to sound lke a moron at this point..
  • berriberri Posts: 4,138
    Here in Mich. with the snow and salt you don't see many Honda's or Toyota of those years though you still see many American cars plugging around without much rust.

    You mean like all those Mopar minivans rusting fenders and wheel wells or GM cars with blotched paint running around? I'm amazed how well most cars look these days after 5 or 6 years, but I think all brands have their good and bad models and model years. Can't say that one brand really rusts more than another. For example, I've seen a lot of old Corolla's running around up north with good bodies on them.
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,721
    I never made any of my posts personal. If you read the above posts, it is a nice debate. That's all. I'm not sure where that came from.

    Yes, we should get back on track.. Lol.

    Can you get a gm car in a manual anymore? Such as the malibu, don't Camry and accord have a option. Wasn't there a new engine soon to be used?
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    "......Can you get a gm car in a manual anymore? Such as the malibu, don't Camry and accord have a option. Wasn't there a new engine soon to be used?"

    Yes you can. I believe the Aveo, Cobalt, CTS and obviously the sports cars.

    Question is, how many Malibu buyers would want it, and is it worth it for them to make it available.
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,721
    Wouldn't it make it more cost effective to produce a few manual optioned cars?
    Not by much, but could help. But, yes, how many would opt for it. It beginning to be more rare to have a manual.

    I know my mother had an 04 Jetta (manual) and now she has an 08 Jetta(auto)
    Should would have wanted the manual, but its more hard to come by.

    The auto's are getting more advanced, such as paddleshifters, DSG, but its really not a true manual. But, very close in some cars.

    However I used the manual shift mode on the GM rental I had, and it was not exciting at all. 6spd shifting. I was surprisingly disappointed that it didn't work as well as I thought. So, probably in that case it would not compare to a true manual. Or maybe I wasn't using it right.

    The camry perhaps may have more of a chance of getting a manual out of the 3 cars.
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