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Toyota Avalon Limited vs Lexus ES 350

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  • jpm1908jpm1908 Posts: 17
    I test drove both cars and the Avalon felt far more spacious. I also preferred the dashboard layout of the Avalon to the ES 350. The only edge I would give to the ES 350 is for exterior design. 0% financing for 36 months is just a fantastic deal when coupled with a highly competitive out the door price, which I think I got. $34,870 for the Limited with power seat, stability control and mats. I did not want the Avalon's Navigation system. So far so good. Only mild complaint is that the gas tank could be larger. I'm getting around 20mpg overall. Was hoping for a bit better.
  • bmlexusbmlexus Posts: 755
    Well most of the posts here mentioned that avalon is more comfortable better rear seats but i think that avalon has a much better ground clearance if i am not wrong the ES feels that its much closer to the ground
  • dubldocdubldoc Posts: 15
    I agree, the Av has a larger back seat, but if that matters, why give up the crown vic or the minvan? Personally, I like the fact that the Lexus is built in Japan and has a better warranty, better Dealer service, and a better resale value... if for nothing else, being rated #1 by JD Powers for 12 yrs in a row does tend to make a difference on trade in day... I drive my 350 pretty hard, and I now have 24K miles on it with an avg of 25.7 mpg since the day I bought it. Not too shabby...
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    why give up the crown vic

    The Avalon's back seat is actually larger than a CV.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • popsavalonpopsavalon Posts: 230
    J, mileage of "around 20" for the Avalon is extremely low. I get 23-25 mostly around town, and 29-30 on road trips of any length.

    On a controlled speed parkway where the max. speed was 60, I actually got 32 mpg for a 150 mile trip. I think these mileages are excellent for a car of this size and regular fuel.
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,647
    Yes, I never understand the 'if you want a decent rear seat, get a tank' line of reasoning. I just want a good car that I'm happy to put full size adults in the rear seat. The ES can't do that, the Avalon can.
  • I got a 2008 Avalon Limited with VSC, DLCC and power passenger seat for $34,800 OTD, 0% for 3 years. Though I never drove the ES350, just by comparison I knew I liked the Avi better - I love the ultra clean "hiding" interior, room, exterior design. I'm really happy with it. Oh, I'm 28 and I've gotten nothing but compliments on the car, not that I really care what people think about it. I am, however, still surprised at how big it REALLY is, both exterior and interior - still transitioning from my old '99 Corolla. :P
  • rpfingstenrpfingsten Posts: 154
    Emperojvl..

    Congrats on the new Avy... I hope you enjoy yours as much as I have enjoyed my 07 avy.. Like you, I was also impressed with the overall size of the avalon. I mean I went from a Sedan Deville to the toyota...and truthfully I'm as comfortable in the avy as I was in the caddy, and for about 15 grand less.... I'm a big boy, not necessarily all that tall, but a big boy none the less ( we'll just leave that alone for now ) but the point is I never thought I would be comfortable in a "toyota"...was actually sitting down at the local Buick dealership about to sign the papers on a new lucerne when my wife convinced to at least go look at the avy before I bought the buick.. truth be told, I went down there pretty much just to shut her up... wow was I wrong.... I was immediately taken back as to how roomy the avy was.. and even more impressive to me was the power the car has. 268 hp... my 8 cyl. caddy with the northstar engine in it only cranked out 275 and weighed considerably more...yep, think the avy is a very good blend of comfort, style and fuel efficency for the money..

    Roland.
  • ronawineronawine Posts: 1
    Why do we compare the ES to an Avalon Limited? They are in separate classes. The Avalon is much closer to the Lexus LS. The LS has about 4 inches more wheelbase. The length overall is the same. The interior cubic footage is the same. The standard equipment advantage goes to the Avalon Limited. When I purchased my Avalon in 05 I checked out the Lexus. While being a beautiful car I found nothing worth the $25000 difference. I have never regretted my decision. Especially comparing the V6 to The V8 and front wheel drive to rear wheel drive here in snow country!!
  • yankeryanker Posts: 156
    Oy\ur 2000 Avalon with 118000 made to Florida from Western Nrew york on two and i/2 tankfuls of gas and overall ran for 3000 miles at 31 mpg for the third time
  • gaffgaff Posts: 3
    I purchased a 2008 Lexus ES350 about the first week in August 2008. I have 1073 miles on it. I am taking in on 9/17/2008 for a 1000 mile check-up. I am not happy with the drivers seat. I cannot get a comfortable position. I have tried everything. I can't drive 10 miles without my foot falling alseep. I am looking to trade for an Avalon. How much of a loss do you think I will take? All comments and suggestions are welcome.
  • gaffgaff Posts: 3
    I purchased a 2008 ES350 in August. I cannot find a comfortable drivers position. I have tried everything. I can go 10 miles with my leg falling asleep. I am thinking of trading for an Avalon. How much of a beating will I take? Any suggestions or comments are greatly appreciated.
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,647
    Yes, you'll take a beating, depends on how much you paid. You should rent an Avalon to make very sure it works for you.
  • gaff... as someone else told you, you will take a hit with a trade in... but mind you that would be the case regardless of whether or not you were going to the Avalon or "any" other car. Remember that regardless of what you are driving, you lose approx. 5K in value the "minute" you drive the car off the lot. As for going to the Avalon, I have an 07 XLS and so far love it. I actually looked into "trading up" to the ES 350 about a year after I got my Avy, but after test driving the lexus I couldn't justify the difference in price. Don't get me wrong, I like the body style of the 350, it's a beautiful car and the 350 does have some "nicer" immenities, but not nice enough to justify the price difference. Also, like you, I was not comfortable with the ES drivers seat, not to mention I actually felt like there was more room in the Avalon. Engine wise I'm pretty sure they are the exact same power plant, so you won't be dissappointed there if you do make the switch.
    Either way you'll be driving one nice ride.

    Roland
  • I test drove both cars in early 08 and wound up purchasing an Avalon Limited. I much preferred the body style of the 350. The key thing for me was the roominess of the Avalon. I don't know what the cubic feet of space is for each of the cars and I don't really care; the Avalon feels much roomier. The only thing I don't like about my Avalon are the cheesy stereo and cup holder covers that don't open all of the way. In general, the dash panel could me made more aesthetically pleasing with a bit more faux wood and a bit less silver plastic. What a great car, though. The ride is fantastic and the car has LOTS of passing power.
  • kenb757kenb757 Posts: 149
    From the 2009 Lexus ES 350 Web site:

    "Ratings achieved using the required premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 or higher. If premium fuel is not used, performance will decrease."

    Again, if premium fuel is required, then why include the second sentence? My take is: the Lexus has the same engine as the Avalon does and can run on regular unleaded with no problem.
  • kenb757kenb757 Posts: 149
    I believe Toyota dealers have a nice (faux?) wood kit that covers most of the unsightly silver plastic on the dash. You may want to ask about it.
  • No kidding? I would certainly consider this. Is it dealer installed? Appreciate the tip!!

    Sincerely,

    Jamie
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,647
    I think you're right, I seem to remember checking the two engines - same compression ratio, so it would seem to be the same octane requirements. My manual (ES300) says something similar about 'performance will decrease', but I haven't noticed, and the mileage is unchanged.

    Edit - just checked, engine dimensions/compression are the same, the Lexus listed 4 more hp, would be hard to notice!

    P.S. - the Avalon has about 107 cu. ft. interior space, the ES350 about 96.
  • kenb757kenb757 Posts: 149
    On the Toyota Web site, when building your Avalon, and under "Select Your Other Options," a "wood dash applique" is listed for $309. I'm almost positive it is dealer installed.
  • nimiminimimi Posts: 249
    That must be a dealer installed option and only available in certain areas as it does not display as an option in my zip code.
  • It is quite possible for two engines with the same compression ratio to have different octane requirements. Why? Engine Management System is the answer. Once the heat of combustion takes place and expands to the cylinder’s walls, how efficient this heat is managed depends on plumbing layout and the ECM and ECUs design/configuration to adjust the fuel mixture accordingly.

    Here’s another related case: One of my co-worker has an ’08 BMW X5, 4.8i. The compression ratio for this engine is 10.5:1. The Owner’s Manual states that “premium unleaded gasoline with a minimum octane rating of 91 is REQUIRED.” On the other hand, my ’08 Avi, with a compression ratio of 10.8:1, has no premium fuel requirements and runs extremely well on regular with no engine knocking whatsoever. By compression ratio alone, this does not make sense; my avy should be gulping premium too. Seems like the [non-permissible content removed] are beating the Germans in this area (jeje).

    Amaury
    '08 Limited
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    The Avalon and the ES350 use the exact same 2GR engine. Even the Avalon suggests premium for "enhanced performance". My guess would be that on the Lexus requiring premium fuel is not a big deal for most buyers where on the Toyota nameplate it may be. If you notice the Avalon is rated at 268 HP on reg and the Lexus is rated at 272 on premium.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • texasestexases Posts: 5,647
    See the comments above. Certainly, different engines can require different octane with the same compression ratio. Here, we're dealing with the same engine, with the added power coming from (probably) the added advance the knock sensor-controlled engine will allow with premium. The same power increase is also likely available to any 3.5 l car (Avalon, Camry, etc.).
  • My Owner’s Manual states that either regular or premium yields optimum engine performance (it is “either”; not just premium). Contrary to popular belief, the 268HP cap on the Avalon’s 2GR-FE won’t be increased by switching to premium fuel alone. That engine has to undergo serious mods in order to increase the horsepower output even by a few digets.

    Amaury
    '08 Limited
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    imageSee more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com

    The 2GR-FE engine from the Avalon is the same thing as what is installed in the ES350 the slightly higher HP rating in the ES is from the requirement of premium fuel. Here is a shot of the owners manual from the '06 Avalo, showing my point: "for improved vehicle performance...."

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • bmlexusbmlexus Posts: 755
    Here’s another related case: One of my co-worker has an ’08 BMW X5, 4.8i.

    How do you compare your co worker x5 with your avalon?

    X5 feels a lot more specially doesn't it?

    Of course you have to pay a price for that ;)
  • Anyone with a 2008 Owner’s Manual for the Avalon sold in the U.S. can check page 414; It says nothing different from what I stated earlier.
    ----- ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------

    One of the engines has a tweak that the other doesn’t. In very simple terms, horsepower depends on the thermal efficiency of the engine. Fuel type alone won’t increase this efficiency.

    Amaury
    '08 Limited
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    A 2GR - FE is a the same no matter what they put it into. They share all the same specs. Even on the spec sheet for the ES350 it reads:

    "Ratings achieved using the required premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 or higher. If premium fuel is not used, performance will decrease"

    What does that tell you? Do you really think Toyota would tweak this engine for a lousy 4 HP? The "tweaked" version of this engine is the 2GR-FSE which is direct injected and used in the IS/GS and makes a little over 300HP.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • I'm planning to buy or lease a Toyota Avalon Limited in the very future, which would feel luxury like the Lexus ES 350. The Lexus ES 350 has a power tilt and telescopic steering column and the Toyota Avalon does not have a power tilt and telescopic steering column. Before I buy or lease a Toyota Avalon Limited in the very future, I'm requesting the Toyota Avalon Limited to offer a power tilt and telescopic steering column for the late availability 2009 model year available at Toyota dealers by October, November, or December of this year 2008 so I can buy or lease a 2009 Toyota Avalon Limited with a power tilt and telescopic steering column and feel luxury like the Lexus ES 350 rather than having the 2009 Toyota Avalon Limited still offer a manual tilt and telescopic steering column. If the 2009 Toyota Avalon Limited comes with rain-sensing variable intermittent windshield wipers, heated and ventilated front seats, power rear sunshade, wood grain style leather wrapped steering wheel and shift knob, wood grain style interior, perforated leather seats, steering wheel mounted audio and climate controls, vehicle stability control with traction control and brake assist, 2-way driver's side memory systems, 8-way power driver's seat with power lumbar support, optitron meters with tachometer, speedometer, coolant temperature gauge, fuel gauge, and digital odometer with twin trip meters, smart key system with push button start, JBL synthesis AM/FM stereo with 6-disc in dash changer with hands free phone via bluetooth, optional dynamic laser cruise control, optional 8-way power passenger seat with power lumbar support, power windows with driver and passenger auto-touch up/down, power door locks with anti lockout feature, power moonroof, chrome outside door handles, etc., then the 2009 Toyota Avalon Limited should come with power tilt and telescopic steering column rather than a manual tilt and telescopic steering column.
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