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Traffic Laws & Enforcement Tactics



  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,860
    So that you can avoid the insulting indignity of being stopped, pulled over, questioned, fined, and interrogated for no good reason in the name of "safety" just because the sign says 65 or 70 in CA where it would say 80 or 85 in truly progressive States.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 45,532
    "Now in Europe, where the police in many countries use stationary and mobile radar cameras to catch speeders, the smartphone is being honed into a highly effective — and controversial — mobile radar detector.

    6 percent of all French drivers now use radar driving apps.

    Most of these companies rely on their users to scout and report the locations of speed cameras, which are then forwarded to others using the same application. Drivers passing the same points are asked to confirm or amend the sightings."

    In Europe, Speed Cameras Meet Their Technological Match (NY Times)

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 35,645
    Only "controversial" to those who use such cameras to increase their undeserved piles of gold or to preserve their surplus overhead jobs.

    From what I have witnessed in Germany, camera traps (and I didn't hear of many) were also signed.
  • This past summer we drove from Pennsylvania to Tennessee (via Virginia) for our vacation. The speed limit on the interstates ranged from 65 mph to 70 mph.

    The main effect of the varying speed limits was that we, along with most of the traffic, were either 5 mph over the limit, or 10 mph over the limit.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,860
    Not to sound like an advertisement, but smartphones in the US have an Escort app that has been doing this for a year now. You buy the smart cord live and use your radar detector in conjuction with your phone and you have a 2012 level of technology for "flashing your lights" to warn motorists of extra enforcement up ahead.

    It works great.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,860
    edited October 2012
    Good news! Had my trial today at 9:30 a.m.

    Showed up at 9:15 a.m., procrastinated a lot and was cramming for my defense and cross examination at the last minute, so I didn't mind waiting and arriving early.

    At about 9:35 they open the courtroom up, bailiff takes roll call, and we all sit until about 10:10 a.m. After the 40 minute delay, they ask us to all rise, and the judge (female) steps into the court. The court thinks they are getting their pound of flesh out with time wastage, but I'm loving it as I'm getting more minutes to do my last minute preperation and "radar error" research reading, educating myself with the time going by.

    I didn't see any La Mesa PD motorcycles in the parking lot (good sign). There were a bunch of CHP bikes, and one SD PD bike. No uniformed La Mesa PD officers in court; another good sign, but one guy walking in just after the doors opened worried me a lot, as he was young and in a nice business suit (potentially my cop?)

    They call one case and the person isn't present. They call my name 2nd, I stand up, say here, and the judge says the officer isn't present, case dismissed, go to the bail room.

    I go to the bail room, 10 minutes later the clerk calls me up, says my case has been dismissed, that I'll receive my refund ($360) in 4 to 6 weeks. La Mesa PD and the City of La Mesa -- PAY UP!!! GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK!!! BOOOYAH!

    I tell the clerk I'd like to see the officer's testimony from the trial by declaration/mail that I was found guilty in. She looks at me puzzled, and says my case has been dismissed. I tell her that my case was a Trial De Novo for a trial by declaration where I was originally found guilty, and for my own personal knowledge, I'd like to read the officer's testimony/letter that resulted in me being found guilty (she looks at me crazy) says "your case is dismissed and you'll have to pay if you want copies." I calmly state I don't need copies, just a couple minutes to review his letter and read it right here. She reluctantly hands me the paperwork, I find it quickly and read it as fast as I can as she just stands there waiting for me to finish.

    The officer used general arguments that didn't really apply to my case in his declaration. He made subjective statements which would and could really be seen as false statements. Things like 35 MPH is the speed limit for optimum conditions, that at the time of the citation (10:20 a.m weekday NON RUSH HOUR) there's lots of people entering and exiting the driveways alongside the roadway, frequent bicyclists and pedestrians (bold lies). The thing is he didn't completely perjur himself because he made these statements subjectively and generally, he did later on in his letter admit when taking his radar reading I was the only moving object around (benefits doubt about radar to admit that). Therefore, he stopped short of stating there were any bicycles or pedestrians applicable to my case. Maybe he was trying to justify his enforcement efforts???

    I'd like to think justice was served and that the officer was a coward who wouldn't dare defend his false allegations in a court of law. However, the truth is because I had the county seat as my venue, and the La Mesa PD normally goes to the East County Courthouse, he didn't show. Reason being that it wasn't financially beneficial to the city for him to show. He already wasted time re-writing the ticket 2 times (due to his own errors), and wasted time writing a prosecution letter in my trial by mail, he wasn't going to show up outside of his home court. The courts are clever, they schedule a La Mesa PD day at the court, and all traffic cases are heard on the exact same day every week (could be Wednesday, for example). Do you think he's going to pass up time to "kick it" with his buddies and colleagues at El Cajon, where he might have 2 or 3 trials conveniently scheduled back to back to back, or go to Kearny Mesa to handle one case he know he has to lie about to win? The financial reasoning behind traffic enforcement dictated he wouldn't show up today, and I was proven right. There's more money in it for him to show up at his regular courthouse only.

    The justice of this case makes me feel better about not fighting the CHP speeding case earlier this year and just paying the fine and going to traffic school on that one. I had a good case this time and made a good judgement call.

    My best judgment call was to not accept the court's offer to bribe me into accepting a guilty verdict by allowing me to go to traffic school for an extra $55 even though there's a rule you can't do traffic school within 18 months of your last session. They were willing to bend the rules on that in order to get my $360 + $55. I didn't take the deal; I doubled down and went all-in!

    Take that La Mesa PD.

    Tickets on Lake Murray Blvd = 2
    Convictions = 0

    Undefeated, 2-0 record; taking all challengers and newcomers; bring it! Bring it La Mesa! You only have until 2014 to use that almost 10 year old traffic and engineering survey where the 85th percentile was 41 MPH, but you still set limit at 35? I bet the next survey comes out to 45 MPH or more at 85th percentile, and if the limit were set to 45, I might actually obey it! 35 makes me laugh and I ignore it.
  • Wow.
    Because, after all, it is all about you.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,860
    Because, after all, it is all about you.

    It's not about me. It's about all Americans.

    HOpefully, the City and PD department review their conviction and fine collection rates for different citations on different roads, and keep track (stats).

    Hopefully, they'll see an unusual resistance to speeding tickets given on Lake Murry Blvd. by the La Mesa PD. HOpefully, they'll see the trend that a higher percentage of people won't be walked on and tend to fight those tickets at a higher rate. Hopefully they'll see and take notice of a higher rate of dismissals and not guilty verdicts. Hopefully they'll realize enforcement efforts on underposted roads is in vain, and adjust accordingly. Hopefully, they can learn from their mistakes.

    I know I did my part as a citizen to correct this bad behavior by my local gov't with negative reinforcement.
  • eliaselias Posts: 2,083

    please continue your responsible & safe motoring and contesting whatever unjust citations happen your way.

    also please keep ignoring the naysayers who would seem to prefer that you CONFORM to be one of the sheeple!

    ANDRES3 FOR PRESIDENT (of the NMA.) :)
    [ Are you active in your local NMA chapter? you would be a great resource for local drivers who aren't as well-informed as yourself.) ]
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,860
    [ Are you active in your local NMA chapter? you would be a great resource for local drivers who aren't as well-informed as yourself.) ]

    This should answer your question regarding activity in my local NMA chapter:

    There's a local NMA chapter in CA??????

    I don't think the CA chapters in the NMA are very alive, but they should be!

    As to a great resource for drivers, 85% of what I know about fighting and winning tickets should be credited to David Brown's NOLO PRESS publications.

    The NMA does have the best cross examination question booklet I've ever seen on radar though. You get to be a regular Johnny Cochran.
  • ronsteveronsteve Posts: 435
    Are those night courts for actual trials, or just simply arraignments where you plead guilty, or not guilty?

    Overland Park, KS has (or at least in 1999, had) a traffic court that convened in the evening.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,860
    Just got my insurance renewal for the following year 2013. They have my record as follows:

    Accidents: 0
    Traffic Citations: 0

    Ahhh... the wonders of traffic school erasing one, and having another thrown out of the courtroom and dismissed all in one year. Of course, the citation date on that dismissal was from 2010.

    That's another great reason stalling and delaying your traffic ticket case is a good idea. If you can delay the conviction for a year and a half, then the 3 year window insurance companies are allowed to know about it (look up the record) is shortened, and hence, the amount of time they can wrongfully upcharge/surcharge you for it.
  • eliaselias Posts: 2,083
    Good Driving, Andres3, and nice job handling the traffic 'events'.
    Merry Christmas & Happy New Year !
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,860
    edited January 2013
    Let this be the year that everyone does their fair share of light flashing and honking at LLC's.

    Let this be the year where everyone learns to merge at full speed so as not to impede traffic.

    Let this be the year where law enforcement actually earns their paycheck and actually seeks out dangerous drivers rather than waiting and hiding behind a bush (while eating a donut and reading the newspaper) for the first person to ignore an underposted limit.

    Let this be the year where red-light and speed cameras are outlawed by the Supreme Court.

    Let this be the year where all the bad roads in the USA are re-paved.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,860
    I find DUI checkpoints highly inconsiderate. I've wasted over 20 minutes getting through my last one, and that didn't even include being pulled aside (which I wasn't).

    They are inconsiderate for the following reasons:

    1) The courts erred in ruling them Constitutional. They trample on several fundamental rights.

    2) The ends don't justify the means.

    3) They waste time, waste gas, increase pollution (from tailpipes idling), and create congestion.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 35,645
    Here's a nice enforcement tactic

    Yeah, respect them, right. Animal Farm...
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,860
    There was a story of charges brought against 9 Philadelphia traffic court judges recently. I'm sure that city isn't alone with a corrupt traffic court and enforcement system.

    In good news:

    San Diego Mayor Filner lived up to his election promises, and had the illegal and unconstitutional camera's brought down. All red-light cameras and required associated (red light photo enforced intersection) signage was removed as well (at taxpayer expense) the other day.

    So San Diego is now free from the oppression that was REDFLEX or whatever other scam artist run corporation that works in red-light cameras.

    So the taxpayer paid to put up the signs and cameras, and now the taxpayer pays to have them removed and thrown away. My big question is what scum sucking idiot no brain people thought this was a good idea in the first place?

    He cited several reasons for removing them:

    1) increased accidents or lack of evidence showing any reduction in accidents.
    2) bred contempt and disrespect for law enforcement
    3) bad way to welcome tourists to the city, and say thank you for visiting, here's a $500 fine in the mail.

    The unsaid final reason was that I believe San Diego was no longer making a profit on the camera's, and was barely breaking even.

    In other good news, my favorite quote from this story:

    An analysis of crashes that occurred during the ICC’s first full year of operations, from December 2011 through December 2012, also found that speeding was not to blame for most of these accidents. ing-up-to-60-mph/?wprss=rss_local

    Speed limits going up, what's not to like? Albeit painstakingly slowly and incrementally.

    Some here might find it blasphemy that most accidents weren't related to speed. With greater speed comes greater risk, or so some in the dark ages still say.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 35,645
    edited February 2013
    "Speed kills" is one of the greatest lies ever perpetrated against a populace.

    The crony capitalist camera operators should be treated as other corporate criminals. More of our market oligarchy at work.

    1) increased accidents or lack of evidence showing any reduction in accidents.
    2) bred contempt and disrespect for law enforcement

    Exactly. Some people need to prove their side, and if they want respect, earn it like normal people.

    About the local corrupt irresponsible should be imprisoned or hanged LEOs, no TV news story carried it on their site or on the air. Only a print media site carried it. I wonder why.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 45,532
    "Privacy advocates are going to court in California over the use of automatic license plate readers by police.

    The sophisticated camera systems are mounted on squad cars and telephone poles. They are able to read license plates and record the time, date and location a car was encountered.

    One such device, the SkyCop Mobile License Plate Recognition & Video Surveillance System, is touted by the Memphis Police Foundation on its Web site. The organization says the system can provide police with such information as "improper registration, people driving on revoked licenses, stolen plates and/or stolen vehicles, outstanding warrants, sex offenders (and) known gangsters."

    Court Battle Looms Over Automatic License Plate Readers


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  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,860
    If a photograph from hearsay evidence is good enough for the courts then a picture of the dollar bills covering the fine should suffice as well.

    No double standards!
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 45,532
    "The email from police union President Ken Allen explains future police pay raises will be funded through traffic tickets and court revenue. It comes on the heels of the passage of the city’s budget."

    APD email says traffic money to fund future pay raises (

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 35,645
    It's all about safety! Think of the children!

    I wonder how corrupt that will end up being in an area with many parts that don't seem to be 100% in the first world.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,860
    Utah high speed 80 MPH and up speed limits studies are in, and the predicted blood bath didn't occur. In fact, accident and fatality rates are down in Utah in the higher speed zones since the limits were raised.

    Oh the horror of finding out speed kills is a myth.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 45,532

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  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,860
    I wonder how the "speed" kills crowd will explain that one in Utah? Maybe Utah has a lot of German immigrants?
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 16,268
    andres3 said:

    I wonder how the "speed" kills crowd will explain that one in Utah? Maybe Utah has a lot of German immigrants?

    Even the NHTSA own statistics say that (inappropriate) excessive speed is app 20%. So not to state the UTTER obvious but APPROPRIATE to way SLOWER speeds are responsible for the OVERWHELMING majority !! (yes the other 80%)
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,860
    ruking1 said:

    andres3 said:

    I wonder how the "speed" kills crowd will explain that one in Utah? Maybe Utah has a lot of German immigrants?

    Even the NHTSA own statistics say that (inappropriate) excessive speed is app 20%. So not to state the UTTER obvious but APPROPRIATE to way SLOWER speeds are responsible for the OVERWHELMING majority !! (yes the other 80%)
    Most studies have speed being involved as a causal factor at 2%, 3%, or 5% depending on who your looking at. If it's higher then that, then they are probably attributing 10th degree relationships to "involve speed" as a "related" factor.

    1) (US Dept. of Transportation Study confirms Speed not a significant Causal factor in collisions).

    2) (Purdue Univ. Study - Higher Interstate Speed Limits are Safe)
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 16,268
    edited February 1
    I am really not sure how to resolve that 15% to 18% DIFFERENCE. The data cited is a snap shot of the SMALLER 2007 picture and FATALITIES NOT included. However, I do see another difference, between 2007 and 2012 NHTSA data.

    In any case, here is the data source for those who might be interested.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 45,532
    Dare I? (good article on the Pinto if nothing else)

    "Excessive speed, for example, is implicated in an overwhelming number of fatal crashes. Traffic enforcement cameras—“speed cameras”—have been shown, conclusively, to reduce road fatalities.

    Western European countries have been aggressive in adopting speed cameras, which is one of the main reasons that their road deaths have fallen so dramatically. The United States has not. Even simple police enforcement of the speed limit, in some states, has been lacking."

    The Engineer’s Lament (The New Yorker)

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 35,645
    Yeah it's speed cameras, not increased safety tech. Gotta keep the revenue streams coming in, pensions don't fund themselves.
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