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Mazda3 2.3 vs. '07 VW Rabbit

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Comments

  • nedzelnedzel Posts: 787
    I sold my 2000 GTI GLX after 40,000 miles. The extreme lack of reliability and the very poor quality of the dealer service combined to make it a nightmare. I can't remember everything that needed to be fixed on that car, but it included:

    - rear struts and strut top mounts twice (and they needed to be replaced again when I sold the car)
    - starter motor
    - spark plugs and plug wires
    - mass air flow sensor
    - ignition coil pack
    - ac compressor
    - thermostat
    - rear brakes
    - headlight bulbs multiple times
    - all the taillight bulbs multiple times
    - turn signal stalk

    thankfully, I never suffered from the failing window regulators. But I did have 2nd gear grind.

    My GTI's interior was beautiful. The gauges were crisp, clear, and very easy to read. Although a little soft, I liked the way it drove.

    What surprises me about the Golf 5 is how overweight it is. I thought my GTI was a porker at 2900+ lbs. The Golf 5 is now over 3300 lbs! So it is no surprise that the Golf 5 has crummy fuel economy.

    It's too bad, because I like VW exterior and interior styling. VWOA recognizes that they've got major problems and they are working on it. Whether they've gotten where they need to be yet is the big question.

    In June, VWOA executive Adrian Hallmark was quoted as saying "The current customer satisfaction and dealer experience is as bad as it gets!"
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    While I would choose a Mazda 3 over a Rabbit, I would not place any bets on a prediction that Mazda 3 would have higher reliability than Rabbit.

    Do you know what is quality and what is reliability?

    Yes.

    If it's 2006 data and from JD Power, then it must be the IQS (initial quality study). It's about whether the buyer likes the car or not for the first 90 days of ownership.

    It is incorrect to summarize the IQS as "whether the buyer likes the car or not".

    Either you are confused or simply did not know that the APEAL study is the measure of (in your words) "whether the buyer likes the car or not".

    quote-
    APEAL is designed to complement the J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality StudySM (IQS), which focuses on problems experienced by owners during the first 90 days of ownership. APEAL measures how gratifying a new vehicle is to own and drive. While the redesigned Initial Quality Study included a new measurement for design quality, the APEAL Study finds almost no relationship between a model’s overall APEAL score and its IQS design score.
    -end

    quote-
    IQS measures a broad range of quality problems, heavily weighted toward defects and malfunctions, quality of workmanship, drivability, human factors in engineering (i.e. ease of use) and safety-related problems. Among these categories, the area that accounts for the greatest product improvement since 1998 are defects and malfunctions.
    -end

    In case you don't know, JD Power also conduct a relaibility study that documents the ownership experience for a period of time at 3 years or longer.

    Actually, it is problems experienced during 12 months for 3 year old vehicles.

    quote-
    Long-Term Dependability

    The Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) evaluates vehicle quality after three years of ownership. Owners rate vehicles based on problems experienced during the previous 12 months. Results are summarized with a problems-per-100-vehicles (PP100) designation.
    -end

    Better yet, Consumer Report has typically 10 years of study for reliability.

    If you prefer a flawed method of choosing the population (only Conumer Reports Subscribers are sampled :sick: ) that is sampled, then CR is "better yet".

    And if can guess right, according to both JDP and CR, VW Golfs/Beetles are about THE least reliable cars in this segment.

    You guessed wrong. Chevrolet Cobalt is the correct answer.
  • steven39steven39 Posts: 636
    i test drove a mazda 3itouring sedan among many other cars before deciding on the rabbit.i just felt that in my opinion the rabbit drove better,had more safety and convienence features for the money than the mazda 3 did,and also had a better warranty than the mazda 3.despite the better reliability rateing that the mazda 3 has,i just felt that the rabbit was a much better overall value.the mazda 3 drove a little rough for my tastes,while the rabbit had a much better ride and still handled very well.i think that the rabbit has a great balance of ride and handleing.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    While I would choose a Mazda 3 over a Rabbit, I would not place any bets on a prediction that Mazda 3 would have higher reliability than Rabbit.


    I would have to disagree with the end of your statement. If you look at Consumer Reports, which I have found to have quite accurate long term reliability ratings, that have the Mazda3 rated "reliable" and is a "Recommended Buy". I would say it is a bit early to say that the Rabbit is unreliable, however, their assessment of it's predecessor, the Golf, they rated that as having poor reliability, and Volkswagen rated next to last in long term reliability s a company.

    I really do not see VW pulling a 180 in terms of reliability in the Rabbit (which it's only called in NA, still the Golf in Germany) in the matter of 1 MY.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    I really do not see VW pulling a 180 in terms of reliability in the Rabbit (which it's only called in NA, still the Golf in Germany) in the matter of 1 MY. :surprise:

    1 model year? Are you aware of how long the Golf (Rabbit) has been in production?
    The current Rabbit (Golf Mk5) was introduced in 2003.
    There are 3 years of reliability history for the current model Golf and the data is very good.

    The new model Rabbit (Golf) is expected to debut as a 2008 model. Current Rabbit is going to have a short run in the US.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I have not seen any data stating that the Golf has very good reliability.
  • steven39steven39 Posts: 636
    vw and the word reliability do not go hand in hand.infact,vw and the word reliability should not even be mentioned in the same breath.i don't think there is any vw car be it the jetta,rabbit,passat,ect that has been given any kind of positive reliability review in recent years and the golf is no exception.there are many current and former vw owners that will agree with me.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I have also seen that the Rabbit is made in Germany, not Mexico or Brazil like the previous Golf. I have also heard, believe it or not, that the Germany plant put's out less reliable vehicles then the Mexican plant.

    One thing I have heard numerous times from almost every VW owner. Usually, they get one that lasts forever, and then the get one that is nothing but a rat trap. Total unconsistancy.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    I have not seen any data stating that the Golf has very good reliability.

    What data have you seen aviboy?

    What are the differences in expected reliability or differences in past reliability of German VW Golfs and Mazda3?

    Both vehicles have been on the market for several years so there is data for both past and current (initial) reliability.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    I have also seen that the Rabbit is made in Germany, not Mexico or Brazil like the previous Golf. I have also heard, believe it or not, that the Germany plant put's out less reliable vehicles then the Mexican plant.

    I've heard that the cow jumped over the moon, does that make it believable?

    Do you have data to demonstrate the difference in reliability of the Rabbit vs. Mazda3? Other than anecdotal or hearsay?
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    steven39 vw and the word reliability ....

    Is there data that you could share to show the difference in reliability between Mazda3 and Rabbit?

    Anecdotal experience is entertaining at best.
  • The Consumer Reports data had the previous VW as poor reliability and the Mazda3 as good, in fact very good. I have JPegs of these pages. Can you post them here?
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    What data have you seen aviboy?

    I told you, I have seen NO data recommending the Golf/Rabbit. I am going on the history of it's predecessor. I have stated that many times. Because cannot find data on the new to US Rabbit.

    What is your source for the Rabbit/Golf reliability?

    What are the differences in expected reliability or differences in past reliability of German VW Golfs and Mazda3?

    Ok, every respected periodical not only calls the Mazda3 a class leader, but, also has reliability that is at least above average to excellent. The history of the Golf that has been sold here in the U.S. has been repeatedly below average to poor. I have said many times in this thread, that it is too early to say the the VW is poor, however, look at the history of them, and history does not paint a good picture.

    Both vehicles have been on the market for several years so there is data for both past and current (initial) reliability.


    Where have you seen accurate reliability assessments for the Golf/Rabbit?

    Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to bash the vehicle. I have driven it. It does drive nice, and has good fit and finnish. I just question VW reliability.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    JD Power Vehicle Dependability Study Results (data released in 2006 for 2003 model year vehicles)

    Problems per vehicle
    2.43 Mazda
    2.99 Volkswagen
    2.27 Industry Average problems per vehicle
    1.94 Honda

    The difference is less than 1 problem per vehicle difference between Volkswagen and the industry average.

    The difference between VW and Mazda is 0.56 problems per vehicle.

    And this is for 2003 vehicles, it is reasonable to conclude that 2006/2007 vehicles will be more reliable for both manufacturers based on improving initial quality/reliability data.

    Honda is popularly regarded as a gold standard of reliability and 1.05 problems per vehicle is the reliability advantage compared to VW.

    Based on data, I have to disagree with your opinion Steven.
  • The Mazda3 was not alive in 2003. Production started in 2004. :confuse:
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    The Mazda3 was not alive in 2003. Production started in 2004.

    The purpose of my data is to provide data of manufacturer long term reliability. This must be done by reviewing past performance from the manufacturers.
    The results are relevant to the current 2006/2007 Mazda3 and VW Rabbit, though it will be another 3 years before we can look back at actual results from the current vehicles being sold.

    No where in my post did I state that Mazda3 production started in 2003, although the first car rolled off the assembly line on 8 December 2003. ;)
  • d_hyperd_hyper Posts: 130
    Unfortunately for Mazda, this statistics includes B-series pickup (Ford). Although the brand should look for consistent quality across the range, it is not the case w/Mazda. Made in Japan Mazdas vehicles are significantly better than the rest. The appropriate comparison should be between models not brands.
  • steven39steven39 Posts: 636
    i don't think it's probably fair to bash vw reliability.yes vw's track record in the past is not very favorable as far as reliability is concerned.however,toyota is haveing major problems with the 07 toyota camry
    a supposidly rock solid dependable car.they are haveing tranny problems and engine problems.an obvious flawed design with the engine and tranny.
  • "toyota is having major problems with the 07 toyota camry"

    Can you elaborate on this? I just purchased a 07 Camry Hybrid. Thanks!
  • d_hyperd_hyper Posts: 130
    '07 Camry woes http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f0c6927/0
    Good luck with your purchase!
  • sssfegysssfegy Posts: 132
    The new Rabit is based on the 2005.5 Jetta so look at the records for the New Jetta. How about Car&Drievrs comparison? That's a very weird one again, Mazda beat all the cars,in all categories they tested, but took number2?! What a world! Consumer reports picked the 3Hatch over the A3? But the sedan 2.3 won't beat the unrefined 5 cylinder(sounds like a direct injection turbo with no turbo!)? It sucks to be a Mazda product engineer!
  • bziebzie Posts: 1
    the new rabbit is not based on the jetta the rabbit is the new golf it has replace it i work for vw and the rabbit is a great car so fudge the review and that crap
  • The Mazda3 got beat by the Rabbit in the Car&Driver comparo because the Rabbit scored more in the "fun to drive" and "gotta have it categories," which I think are purely subjective. However, the Mazda3 beat or tied the Rabbit in every objective performance category. I think the Car and Driver guys just had a thing for the Rabbit and fudged their test.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Yes....Same interior, same suspension, same front end, same engine, same platform.
  • I thought this article was interesting, I think it may stir some more discussion.

    link title
  • Just bought a Rabbit.
    Tried the mazda 3 and did like it alot but preferred the rabbit.
    And after driving around through the blizzard/ice storm in the northeast this week I love it even more. Great little (heavy/ well balanced) bad weather car.
  • It's good to see a french maker in the top 10. I've always liked the designs of Peugeot and Citroen (though I prefer Peugeot).

    I would bet that the Passat is responsible for pulling VW down on the list. I have heard horror stories here from friends with previous Gen Jettas and Golfs, far more that I have ever heard in Europe. The EUR Golf and even the Bora have usually been a pretty decent/average cars in terms of reliabilty. The Passat however has always been known for its problems. There's no question that the Mazda3 is a much more reliable car.

    There have been numerous complaints around EUR that the new car feels less remarkable than the previous one and frankly I agree. The doors don't close with that old VW feel anymore, it feels more like the [non-permissible content removed]. It's quite obvious that a lot of cost cutting went on. I haven't driven the US market Rabbit yet, but the Golf--besides it's long list of features, some of which are not even available on the Rabbit here--is not impressive. It's also significantly more expensive. I'd say Mazda has caught on big time and I can't wait to see the next Gen 3.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    My rabbit closes with a very nice thunk! :blush:

    Not impressive? If anyone has anything bad to say about the us spec rabbit, they usually admit that it has a pretty ballin' list of features. I feel bad for the euro golf! :sick:
  • savvyboysavvyboy Posts: 10
    "German engineering is the way to go...no more Japanese cars for me. They just can't compare to the feel of a German car. "

    So who is going to be the first to tell this guy that the Mazda 3 is more of a European car (Volvo S40) than it is a Japanese car?
This discussion has been closed.