Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Mazda3 2.3 vs. '07 VW Rabbit

1235720

Comments

  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    That is the nuttiest thing I have ever heard outside of politics...LOL. Wouldn't you prefer they spend the extra money on something of value? Lets say they saved $15. per car and they build 100,000 Fusions/Milans this year they saved $1.5 million dollars that could be used to make product better...based on the most recent Consumer Reports the Fusion/Milan Ford did something right. maybe that $1.5 million savings by not using gas struts that add cost and weight helped to get that top quality rating....

    Don't sweat it, buy exactly what you want and like...I'm just poking a little fun.
  • steven39steven39 Posts: 636
    just for the record here folks,the rabbit's hood is opened with a gas strut, not a prop rod.i just feel that prop rods belong on under $10,000 kia's and hyundai's not on 20,000.00+ cars.it's tasteless as far as iam concerned.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    I'm not sure it would even cost them as much as $15/car to install one gas strut in place of the rod. Based on 100,000+ cars, it probably costs them $1.95 per. But lets say it does. I'm sure they could increase the price of the car by $15 and no one would notice. And they would end up selling a few more cars to people like me and steven39! ;)
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    I've never had to replace a prop rod.
    Gas struts and coil springs on hoods have both caused me a problem or two on cars over that past 30 years.
    I prefer a prop rod.

    Redline Tuning offers gas strut kits for many makes and models of vehicles for those who prefer gas struts on their hoods.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    I've never had to replace a gas strut either, even those on rear hatches that gets opened and closed several times a day. For the hood, which if I'm lucky, might need to be opened once every 3 months or more :P , so, IMO, the hood struts should last a lifetime, or longer. ;)
  • Long story short, the ex-VW owners tell me they will never touch one again, and the current VW owners are all saying that their next car will NOT be a VW, no matter what. Not exactly a recommendation.

    Back in the 60s, VW had almost 50% of US import car market share, by far the largest. Right now? They barely exist. I guess most VW owners never returned, indeed.

    Back in the 90s, VW had almost 50% of Chinese car market share, by far the largest. Right now? They are down to 20%. Coincidence? History repeating itself?

    IMO, a car is "cheap" if it fails to deliver the service expected. VW's have been "cheap" for quite some time.
  • 06 Golf had higher quality rating (fewer problems per vehicle)than Mazda 3 as rated by JD Power. It is expected that the Rabbit will have better quality than the Golf based on actual quality improvements seen in Europe when Golf IV model switched to Golf V model (Golf V = Rabbit).

    Bottom line, reliability goes to VW Rabbit compared to Mazda 3.


    Do you know what is quality and what is reliability?

    If it's 2006 data and from JD Power, then it must be the IQS (initial quality study). It's about whether the buyer likes the car or not for the first 90 days of ownership.

    In case you don't know, JD Power also conduct a relaibility study that documents the ownership experience for a period of time at 3 years or longer.

    Better yet, Consumer Report has typically 10 years of study for reliability.

    And if can guess right, according to both JDP and CR, VW Golfs/Beetles are about THE least reliable cars in this segment. :lemon:
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    Your analysis is flawed.

    Diminished market share in the scenario you described did not necessarily mean diminished product quality.

    In both cases, it was simply the result of gradual infusion of other import brands.

    Especially with the Chinese market. One cannot simply walk into the Chinese market. The government there can and will make you go through all kinds of hoops. And you have to know that, until relatively recently, the Chinese was not friendly to Japanese products, cars included.

    Even if VW had improved quality, more competition would have resulted in reduced market share.

    "...a car is "cheap" if it fails to deliver the service expected"

    I also don't agree with that statement. Cheap and reliability, or lack of, are 2 distinctly different issues. Jags and MB do not particularly have good reliability records. But I doubt you would hear anyone refer to them as cheap.

    And for the record, I know plenty of repeat, in some cases, life-long, VW customers.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    Man i hear ya stevo. I feel like the civic handled just a TAD bit better, no doubt to its lower height and weight. i"m plannin on slapping some 17's on my rabbit and that should balance things out a bit. I miss the milage too, but not terrible; the performance trade off is excellent. I've had mine for almost 4000 miles (we got it at the beggining of oct.) and it has been great.
  • steven39steven39 Posts: 636
    the 2dr rabbit with manual tranny is probably the best value out there right now.i tried to find one down here in ft. lauderdale,fla and was unable to.the msrp is 14,995.00 plus destination and for that money and features content,you are getting a car that drives like you spent twice as much for it.
  • nedzelnedzel Posts: 787
    I sold my 2000 GTI GLX after 40,000 miles. The extreme lack of reliability and the very poor quality of the dealer service combined to make it a nightmare. I can't remember everything that needed to be fixed on that car, but it included:

    - rear struts and strut top mounts twice (and they needed to be replaced again when I sold the car)
    - starter motor
    - spark plugs and plug wires
    - mass air flow sensor
    - ignition coil pack
    - ac compressor
    - thermostat
    - rear brakes
    - headlight bulbs multiple times
    - all the taillight bulbs multiple times
    - turn signal stalk

    thankfully, I never suffered from the failing window regulators. But I did have 2nd gear grind.

    My GTI's interior was beautiful. The gauges were crisp, clear, and very easy to read. Although a little soft, I liked the way it drove.

    What surprises me about the Golf 5 is how overweight it is. I thought my GTI was a porker at 2900+ lbs. The Golf 5 is now over 3300 lbs! So it is no surprise that the Golf 5 has crummy fuel economy.

    It's too bad, because I like VW exterior and interior styling. VWOA recognizes that they've got major problems and they are working on it. Whether they've gotten where they need to be yet is the big question.

    In June, VWOA executive Adrian Hallmark was quoted as saying "The current customer satisfaction and dealer experience is as bad as it gets!"
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    While I would choose a Mazda 3 over a Rabbit, I would not place any bets on a prediction that Mazda 3 would have higher reliability than Rabbit.

    Do you know what is quality and what is reliability?

    Yes.

    If it's 2006 data and from JD Power, then it must be the IQS (initial quality study). It's about whether the buyer likes the car or not for the first 90 days of ownership.

    It is incorrect to summarize the IQS as "whether the buyer likes the car or not".

    Either you are confused or simply did not know that the APEAL study is the measure of (in your words) "whether the buyer likes the car or not".

    quote-
    APEAL is designed to complement the J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality StudySM (IQS), which focuses on problems experienced by owners during the first 90 days of ownership. APEAL measures how gratifying a new vehicle is to own and drive. While the redesigned Initial Quality Study included a new measurement for design quality, the APEAL Study finds almost no relationship between a model’s overall APEAL score and its IQS design score.
    -end

    quote-
    IQS measures a broad range of quality problems, heavily weighted toward defects and malfunctions, quality of workmanship, drivability, human factors in engineering (i.e. ease of use) and safety-related problems. Among these categories, the area that accounts for the greatest product improvement since 1998 are defects and malfunctions.
    -end

    In case you don't know, JD Power also conduct a relaibility study that documents the ownership experience for a period of time at 3 years or longer.

    Actually, it is problems experienced during 12 months for 3 year old vehicles.

    quote-
    Long-Term Dependability

    The Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) evaluates vehicle quality after three years of ownership. Owners rate vehicles based on problems experienced during the previous 12 months. Results are summarized with a problems-per-100-vehicles (PP100) designation.
    -end

    Better yet, Consumer Report has typically 10 years of study for reliability.

    If you prefer a flawed method of choosing the population (only Conumer Reports Subscribers are sampled :sick: ) that is sampled, then CR is "better yet".

    And if can guess right, according to both JDP and CR, VW Golfs/Beetles are about THE least reliable cars in this segment.

    You guessed wrong. Chevrolet Cobalt is the correct answer.
  • steven39steven39 Posts: 636
    i test drove a mazda 3itouring sedan among many other cars before deciding on the rabbit.i just felt that in my opinion the rabbit drove better,had more safety and convienence features for the money than the mazda 3 did,and also had a better warranty than the mazda 3.despite the better reliability rateing that the mazda 3 has,i just felt that the rabbit was a much better overall value.the mazda 3 drove a little rough for my tastes,while the rabbit had a much better ride and still handled very well.i think that the rabbit has a great balance of ride and handleing.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    While I would choose a Mazda 3 over a Rabbit, I would not place any bets on a prediction that Mazda 3 would have higher reliability than Rabbit.


    I would have to disagree with the end of your statement. If you look at Consumer Reports, which I have found to have quite accurate long term reliability ratings, that have the Mazda3 rated "reliable" and is a "Recommended Buy". I would say it is a bit early to say that the Rabbit is unreliable, however, their assessment of it's predecessor, the Golf, they rated that as having poor reliability, and Volkswagen rated next to last in long term reliability s a company.

    I really do not see VW pulling a 180 in terms of reliability in the Rabbit (which it's only called in NA, still the Golf in Germany) in the matter of 1 MY.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    I really do not see VW pulling a 180 in terms of reliability in the Rabbit (which it's only called in NA, still the Golf in Germany) in the matter of 1 MY. :surprise:

    1 model year? Are you aware of how long the Golf (Rabbit) has been in production?
    The current Rabbit (Golf Mk5) was introduced in 2003.
    There are 3 years of reliability history for the current model Golf and the data is very good.

    The new model Rabbit (Golf) is expected to debut as a 2008 model. Current Rabbit is going to have a short run in the US.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I have not seen any data stating that the Golf has very good reliability.
  • steven39steven39 Posts: 636
    vw and the word reliability do not go hand in hand.infact,vw and the word reliability should not even be mentioned in the same breath.i don't think there is any vw car be it the jetta,rabbit,passat,ect that has been given any kind of positive reliability review in recent years and the golf is no exception.there are many current and former vw owners that will agree with me.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I have also seen that the Rabbit is made in Germany, not Mexico or Brazil like the previous Golf. I have also heard, believe it or not, that the Germany plant put's out less reliable vehicles then the Mexican plant.

    One thing I have heard numerous times from almost every VW owner. Usually, they get one that lasts forever, and then the get one that is nothing but a rat trap. Total unconsistancy.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    I have not seen any data stating that the Golf has very good reliability.

    What data have you seen aviboy?

    What are the differences in expected reliability or differences in past reliability of German VW Golfs and Mazda3?

    Both vehicles have been on the market for several years so there is data for both past and current (initial) reliability.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    I have also seen that the Rabbit is made in Germany, not Mexico or Brazil like the previous Golf. I have also heard, believe it or not, that the Germany plant put's out less reliable vehicles then the Mexican plant.

    I've heard that the cow jumped over the moon, does that make it believable?

    Do you have data to demonstrate the difference in reliability of the Rabbit vs. Mazda3? Other than anecdotal or hearsay?
This discussion has been closed.