Mazda3 2.3 vs. '07 VW Rabbit

seminole_kev

Perhaps the ratings you're looking for might be out on the European ratings site (since both cars are sold there as well).

Euro NCAP

rorr

"What car do you have? You enjoy yours?"

I've got a 6spd Celica GTS which is getting a little long in the tooth and, with 2 kids in elementary school, doesn't work so well from a family standpoint.

Been considering a 4-door hatch for a while now but REALLY like the driving/handling dynamics of my Celica. Right now, a Speed3 is on my short list (VERY short list). But, a purchase is probably still a year away, so I've plenty of time to vacillate some more.....

stallionre

Awesome link, thanks.

stallionre

Great. The speed3 is a sweet ride. I was considering the Mazda6, but opt for the 3 instead. Smaller car in length, so it will fit in my garage.

backy

The fact that Mazda did not ask the IIHS to test the Mazda3 with SABs/SACs, which they have the right to do (but they have to provide the car) and which other carmakers have done, tells me a lot about how Mazda thinks the car would fare in the IIHS side impact test--which BTW is not the same test as the NCAP test.

If the NCAP results are good enough for you though, great.

audia8q

tells me a lot about how Mazda thinks the car would fare in the IIHS side impact test--

What exactly does it tell us? Do you have something factual to share with us that we don't know or are you just speculating something??

stallionre

THIS IS A COMPARISON:

Build Quality -
Both cars seem pretty even when looking at the build quality. Fit and finish were excellent and the VW appears to have only a slight edge.

Ride Quality -
Both cars offer very good Ride quality. Some would say that the VW is more refined, and that may be true to an extent but I noticed that at moderate speeds on rough roads the VW felt less controlled and more bouncy. This is due to increased weight of the VW. The syspension on the 3 reacted a little faster and with less bounce. (Note: both cars were driven on the same roads, Delaers about 3/4 mile apart).

Road noise -
This is the one area where the rabbit had an edge over the 3. The interior noise is less in the VW as compared to the 3. Note: The 2007 Mazda 3 has additonal dampning material added and is considered much quieter that earlier years.

Driving Dynamics -
The steering response of the Mazda 3 felt much more positive than the VW and with far less body roll. I found the VW steering to require more effort to achieve the same result. The Braking of the 3 was far superior to the VW. Where the 3 has a nice even progression and control. The VW felt mushy and slower to respond.

Cornering / Handling -
There really is no comparison here. The Mazda 3 corners and responds to driver input so much better than the VW, and every other FWD C-segment car (Civic, Corolla, Sentra, Focus, etc). I have acutally driven all of them and can safely say that the Mazda 3 is the best handling 4 door C-segment car period. Note: The Mini Cooper is a subcompact W/ 2 doors and is not considered a C-segment car, thus it is excluded.

Interior -
Both cars have very good interiors. As far as materials quality is concerned I would give an edge to the VW, particualarly the GTI. When it comes to appearance I personally prefered the look of the 3. It has a clean modern vibe to it that suits the exterior of the car well.

Inerior Comfort / Space -
This is where I had a problem with the VW. While I liked the power of the GTI. I could not get comfortable in the seats. They are too tightly bolstered and would probably be fine for a 150lb person. For me at 5'10 and 200 lbs, well forget about it. The Rabbit has a nice seat that is more comforable and fit my proprtions better. The Mazda 3 on the other hand has an excellent seat and appears to have been designed with long haul comfort. Layout of controls is similar in both cars and I would call that an even draw. The amount of usable space in the 3 hatchback is considerably larger than the VW. There is probably another 16-20" of additional space behind the rear seats. So if you plan on using this area then the 3 gets a nod for space.
Note: The Mazda 3 is almost a foot longer than the VW and yet it is 350-400 lbs lighter.

Sound System / Nav -
If you want a pretty decent factory sound system the Bose Audio option on the 3 is the way to go. The sound is smooth and I found it the be fairly balanced considering the little subwoofer under the front seat. The VW on the other hand has a horrible head unit. I don't know what VW was thinking when it came to the stereo. It is very harsh and employs soft clipping that gets worse as the volume is increased. Also the speaker placemet is bad where the main drive units are placed in the middle of the front doors. Some other factors to consider: The only way to get audiophile sound in this car is to replace the head unit, yes it is that bad. So in my opinion getting the factory Nav in the GTI is a waste fo money. Where on the 3 you can keep the factory head unit and using a high quailty impedance adators add separate amplifiers and quality speakers. Another plus for the 3 is that the Navagation system is separate from the audio system.

Maintainence / Reliability -
This is what scares me about the VW. They have a bad reputaion for reliability of particular concern being electrical problems. Where VW uses a Bosch ECU and many other electrical componets. The Mazda 3 utilizes a Denso ECU and Hitachi electrical componets. Note: Toyota aslo uses Deno and Hitachi. The long term mainatince schedule for the the VW is also much greater than that of the Mazda, with the GTI being even worse. The GTi uses a timing belt that has to be replaced at 60k - 80k miles. I went further than that and did a fair amount of internet research. The VW Rabbit and GTI have had numerous problems, too may to tell and basically the main reason I recended my offer to the dealer. While the Mazda 3 is not perfect it has a far greater track record and very good waranty ratings.

Summary -
Everybody that their own unique requirements that they try to meet in making a car purchase decision. When comparing the 2007 Mazda 3 to the VW Rabbit the clear winner in
most catgories is the Mazda 3. I was looking for a cool comuter car (automatic) that both myself and my wife could drive. Since I already have a kick-[non-permissible content removed] sports car I didn't feel that I had make a purchasing decision based soley on performance but the car as whole. After almost a year of crawling over almost every new car out there to the point of annoying numerous sales people, (about 30 or more test drives). I came to my own conclusion that the 2007 Mazda 3 is best C-segment car currently available. It simply does so many things better than the competition... :shades:

bodble2

Good summary! Thanks. One question, did your 3 come with a factory alarm system. If I'm not mistaken, the Mazda alarm does not protect against hood instrusions, whereas the VW does. The VW also has the highly visible blinking LED on the door sill. Just wondering if the Mazda can be fitted with an after-market security system.

bodble2

What's your "kick-[non-permissible content removed]" sports car? (Sorry if you had mentioned this previously)

eldaino

wow. Very through and through stal. But there are a few things that i'd like to mention;

since this is a rabbit vs. 3 thread, i'll leave the gti completely out of it. That said, i do feel the need to mention that aside from body roll, the gti and 3 put up similar numbers. And as far as speed itself goes...well vw certianly has the advantage when it comes to finding your 'fast'. Mid 8's 0-60 compared to the gti's 6.7-6.8 is not contest. (the last c/d comparo clocked the gti at a very VERY brisk 6.2 seconds! Thats mazdaspeed territory! ANd it was the four door which is 60lbs heavier!)

ANYWAY, as far as the mazda's handling goes, this has been covered many times. As it is the best in its class, its only by a small margin that it out manuvers other cars in its class.

As far as the civic goes, the base version keeps up fairly well, and the si will actually REALLY out handle it. But again thats a different class. (kind of)

As far as space goes, i do realize the hatch is a bit bigger in the 3, but you cant get it in a 2 door version. Thus the hatch is a premium model and can't cater to people who have a less than 18k budget. I think 20 inches is a bit of a stretch tho, yeah its bigger, but its no colossus of the hatchback world. Just wait for the vw sportwagen

The pay off is that the passenger in the rabbit, be it 2 or four door, don't feel as cramped in the backseat, the backseat of the 3 really is nothing to write home about, and i've had many buddies that are thankful that i got the rabbit over the 3 simply for the backseat space. Some would disagree, but i feel the opinion of people who don't frequent car sites like this and scrutinize square inches inside of a vehilce more of a reliable source for this kind of stuff.

The seats in the 3 are less agressive than in the rabbit and especially gti. I guess you wouldn't do well in an r32 or a ms3! I'm 5'8 and about 185, but the gti feels like a (comfortable) glove.

The mazda is lighter. Most japanese cars are; weight is a characteristic of all german vehicles. Loose a little nimbleness; gain a lot of security and sure-footedness. Thats how i can some up the feel between the two. I'll take the latter. Funny how the 3 has a tendency to get around the same milage if not just a TAD bit better than the rabbit; with all the things going for it (4 cyl, 2.3 as oppossed to a 2.5, all aluminum, lighter chassis) you'd expect it to do better/

while the 3 is a bit quicker than the rabbit, the rabbit's engine is being retuned for 2008: up 20 hp and 7lbs of torque and a lot of it is top end power which should help its quickness on more than just off the line. This should put it about as fast as the 3. (remember its still plump!)

as far as the stereo goes, any car that comes with a name brand system is going to sound great. The rabbits stereo has many speakers and i think it sounds great for stock. The head unit is very powerful, but you also have to realize that the bose is an option, and only standard on the most expensive 3. Is a factor stereo really worth it? No not really, at least not to justify the expense. I'll just go aftermarket thanks.

As far as maintanence goes, i think the mazda does have the favor in this; its cheaper to maintain, german cars are just expensive to service. Reliability is also in favor of the 3, but you also have to realize that everyone here is seeing you post that the rabbit has had numerous problems, when you are in fact talking about the previous generation golf; when you say rabbit, they think mkV. Even though I understand what you are talking about, others may not.

As a matter of fact, the mazda 3 has more problems documented on this site than the mkV rabbit does. The mkIV is another story...although you do hear about more people talking ABOUT poor reliability than actuall problems. But that is another discussion entirely. the 3 has a better track record maybe, but its also been out longer. Funny thing is, at 15 k, i hade more 'issues' with my civic than my bunny. (50k is awaited anxiously.)

although everyone does have different needs an opinions, there can never really be a 'clear' winner. (although by saying that, we all know who you are rooting for. ) Case in point; have you read the latest econo car comparo in car and driver? The Rabbit was 1st place, beating even the 2nd place Mazda 3 (and it was a 2.3 w/leather) and 3rd place civic.

Good thoughts though!

stallionre

My 3 came with a factory Alarm and engine immobilize, However, I am making many mods on the car, including installing an LED on the dash and rear dash of the car for an intrusion alarm.

stallionre

No problem, I have the '07 M3S GT Sedan, 5-speed sport auto trans, fully loaded. I am making many mods to it and will be ready this summer. That will set me back about $15K, but will be fun to do. :shades:

eldaino

geez stal 15k? What are you going to do to it that wont make you wonder why you didnt just get a mazdaspeed 3?

Or is this going to be all cosmetic?....

stallionre

Eldaino,

Your right about the weight, and I like your write up a lot. Thanks for sharing. It took me a while to write this to make sure I get my fact and opinions right. I also didn't want to offend anyone.

stallionre

I am re doing the entire inside and out. I want to make this car like a wanna-b race car. However, I want to install new racing spring, lifts, engine mods about $5K with that, Kick [non-permissible content removed] killer sound system say, 500 watts or more, DVD, 50 pack CD changer, Chrome accents, etc.

THIS WILL BE MY TOY!!! :shades:

eldaino

don't worry about it man, we all make mistakes. (you should have seen me in the fit forums when i first joined!)

We all need brushing up every once in awhile! Your cool dude, no worries.

stallionre

THANKS. I feel a lot better now making it right again. Some forums are very touchy and some tell you how it is.

bodble2

So you're adding an after-market alarm on top of the factory alarm? I'll be interested to know what brand you're going with, and how well it works. The way I understand it, most cars nowadays don't take well to an after-market system, even though the factory systems usually are fairly basic and inadequate.

eldaino

ah ok.

PERSONALLY, i would have just gotten a mazdaspeed.

simply because it will take less to get it fast. (i.e. chipping the turbo.) But then again it is fun to build a car. And i don't think the mazda speed 3 can handle any more power out of the turbo, i think its psi is out the roof, you'd probably need to de-turbo it, and put a bigger one on.

stallionre

With the mods that I want to do, it would cost me more with the mazda speed. Another thing, I don't like stick. So I want to add mods to the auto. I might drop a sport 6 speed super fast trans in this baby. I got an estimated to do that already.

eldaino

yeah thats true. Its hard to find performance parts for the 3 in general.

I had to rule at stick cars like the si(despite being a honda fan) because my wifey no likey. Thats another reason why i liked the gti so much!

Man a sport auto? Where did you find that? How much?

bodble2

"...the rabbit's engine is being retuned for 2008: up 20 hp and 7lbs of torque..."

Really? Is that confirmed? Same engine, just more power?

stallionre

Sport Auto. No manual. It will made for me in Canada, for about $4K. Not too sure yet about the price.

eldaino

Yep sure is. Its also going to be the base engine for the new jetta sportwagen.

I saw a picture of the guages and the 2.5 now redlines at 6300 rpms as oppossed to my 5800. I got a lot of the info off of the vw vortex and from vw's own press releases.

Not to bad for a car that starts and 15k.

eldaino

to top it off, its actually an upgrade other rabbit owners can get done (for a price) at the vw dealer itself, since its a reprogramming of the engines ecu and a new intake manifold.

although i don't know about getting the gauges re-done, since if any 150 hp rabbit owner woul have gauges that redline at 5800, it will look like you are over revving the engine all the time! I'm sure a website like mtx tuning will stock them tho.

backy

What it tells me--and this is logical speculation--is that Mazda knows the Mazda3 would not score well on the IIHS side impact test with SABs/SACs. How do I figure that? Because manufacturers run their cars through the same crash tests that the NHTSA and IIHS do, to ensure they will do well on those tests; because the Mazda3's current score on the IIHS side impact test is "Poor", which turns off at least some buyers (including me), so there would be a lot of marketing value for the Mazda3 to be re-tested by the IIHS and receive a higher score; and because manufacturers are free to ask the IIHS to re-test a car with SABs/SACs if they are not standard.

So why do you suppose Mazda has not taken advantage of this relatively inexpensive opportunity to improve its showing in the IIHS crash tests, if the car is capable of achieving a higher score?

dudleyr

Maybe one reason there are not so many go fast parts for the speed3 is it can't handle that much more power in so light a car with fwd.

If I recall correctly the engine power is cut in the first gear or two to help traction issues.

That is probably true re the side airbags. I know I assumed the 3 would do much better with them - maybe it doesn't.

610looper

have to say that Mazda needs to work on sound deadening. It's quiet up until 35 or 40, then wind and road noise take over and it's exacerbated @ highway speeds and on long trips. Also, it doesn't deal with bumps in the road well, too much impact harshness, heard and felt, and the seats are not comfortable for people over 6 feet, and speaking of which the seat doesn't go back on it's track far enough, making for an awkward driving position.

That said, it was fun to drive, to zip in & out of traffic with, for making U-turns, plus the price was very reasonable. Oh mine was very reliable, and the dealership service was excellent. I would not buy another one though because I don't need a torture chamber on wheels. I am getting older and my needs in a vehicle have changed, were I in highschool or in my late teens to early twenties, maybe.

eldaino

although i wouldn't call the speed 3 'light', the scarcity of performance parts is pretty sad.

I'm sure the aftermarket will take a little bit more to the speed 3, but the fact of the matter is that even thought one would assume that the regular 3 is a great platform to build on, there has not been any real parts since its debut.

Maybe having a great chassis and suspension to start with negates the need for tuning?

eldaino

understood. While the 3's ride is hardly a torture chamber on wheels to me (i fit that 20 something description ) it is a bit rough riding when compared to other cars in the class.

You should look into a civic or rabbit. The fun to drive factor is still there, but its not so pronounced to beat your butt to death!

dudleyr

"Maybe having a great chassis and suspension to start with negates the need for tuning? "

Bingo.

stallionre

Yup!! That is why I don't plan to do much with the sport tuning as far as the shocks and spins go. However, the engine can be mod.

eldaino

well, this very well may be true, but i kinda said what i said not taking into consideration that alot of 'tuned' cars are done so because the hp they begin to push becomes overwhelming for a stock suspension.

As good as the suspension is on the 3, it still needed improvement for the mazdaspeed version right?

Stal how much power you planning on getting under the hood?

stallionre

Very true. I do think that the mazdaspeed version can be improved. I wouldn't touch the M3S GT 2.3, I think that it is just fine, except for the rims, that could be upgraded big time.

eldaino

huh? I think you misunderstood me, the mazdaspeed didnt need improvment...it IS the improvement over the base 3.

If any car is in need of a new suspension, i think the 3 would be more in line for it than the mazdaspeed version...

stallionre

Yes, I see, my bad. Your right. I agree about the 3 needing the improvement.

cchicago

I find that odd too. The Mazda3 with side air bags has been tested in Europe, where is scored quite well. Mazda also sprung for an optional "pole test" in a car equipped with side air bags which it "passed"

I don't think the 3 would score a "poor" with the side air bags in the IIHS tests but I may only score an "Acceptable" vs. "Good" which the Civic scored. The 07 models do have some sturctural changes. I wonder if Mazda will spring for the optional test now.

cchicago

I test drove both of these at the same dealership (Mazda/VW). I liked both cars here are my impressions:

Interior:
Mazda3 interior was more modern looking and trendy. The leather seats and steering wheel controls were nice. The seats themselves were also very comfortable.

The Rabbit interior was more conservative, but used nice quality materials for the dash, door, and headliner trim. The controls were very simple to use. The seats were comfortable but I liked the seats in the 3 better.

Ride:
I thought both cars rides were similar. The 3 was a little more taut but not uncomfortable. The Rabbit felt heavier and more isolated. The 3 did have a little more road noise.

Engine/Transmission:
The 2.3L in the 3 was great. It felt very peppy and had a great sound when revved. The 2.5L in the Rabbit was just ok and sounded a little unrefined when revved. The 3 felt more powerful but they both would have no trouble merging into traffic. I had more trouble getting used to the Rabbit's clutch vs the 3's it seemed to engage very quickly. Both cars were fun and easy to shift. The 3's shifter felt a little more precise.

Handling:
On my limited test drive (about 11 miles in each car) I wasn't able to really test the handling at anything close to the limits. That said, the 3's steering seemed more precise than the Rabbits. The 3 made you want to drive it hard. The Rabbit felt more like a nice commuter car.

Style:
This is subjective, but I thought the 3 looked more stylish
but the Rabbit is a nice looking car as well.

Safety:
I think the Rabbit has better passive safety. The 3 has not been tested with side air bags on the tough IIHS test. I'm not sure if the Rabbit has, but the similar Jetta did very well in this test. Both cars did well on the IIHS offset test. I put more weight on the IIHS test vs. the government tests since they are tougher and test the vehicle's underlying structure more than the government tests.

Reliablity:
I think the 3 is likely to be the more reliable car. In most suveys VWs just don't do well. This is backed up by anectodal evidence from people I know who have owned VWs and are not satisfied with their reliability. I suggest prospective buyers check the Consumer Reports Ratings. Althought the Rabbit is new the similar Jetta has been below average.

Final Decision:
I purchased the 3 GT Hatch, Manual. The deciding factors for me were: Reliability, Engine/Transmission, and Handling. If VWs had great reliability, and a better engine for the price, then the decision may have been different.

autonomous

Interesting comparison.

audia8q

So why do you suppose Mazda has not taken advantage of this relatively inexpensive opportunity to improve its showing in the IIHS crash tests, if the car is capable of achieving a higher score?

I would guess the decision was made due to marketing and price. I can't speak for all dealers but in models that offer the side bags as on option, we sell more without.
Many of our consumers don't come in looking for side airbags....if given the choice many would rather have a better stereo or a moonroof. I personally like the safety stuff but everyone must make their own choices. If safety was a primary deciding factor for the majority of consumers you would see better scores from every mfg.

backy

If Mazda doesn't think safety is a concern of Mazda3 buyers, why did they make side airbags and ABS standard on most trim lines, and an inexpensive and easy-to-find option on the other trims? If many Mazda shoppers don't come in looking for side airbags, why did Mazda make them standard on every Mazda6? On every Mazda5? On every CX-7 and CX-9? And so on.

We are seeing better scores over the past few years from every manufacturer. And I am almost certain that you will see the next Mazda3 have standard side airbags/curtains and ABS across the board, and have good crash test scores.

eldaino

good review

some explanations for 2 things;

better steering feedback on the 3: its a traditional rack and pinion. The rabbit has an electromechanical one, is its a little more numb (but smoother) than a traditional set up. It is one of the best examples of this kind of steering tho...

unrefined five cylinder: to each his own, but a five cylinder engine just sounds wierd to anyone not used to it.

shirotori

Along with the safety issues, might we also consider what chemicals that are used to build these vehicles. I just came across this website... www.healthycar.org Check it out if you wish.

audia8q

If Mazda doesn't think safety is a concern of Mazda3 buyers, why did they make side airbags and ABS standard on most trim lines, and an inexpensive and easy-to-find option on the other trims?

I never said mazda doesn't think safety is a concern. If that was the case they wouldnt be working with Volvo on safety systems...I said the consumers at my dealership arent demanding it. Big difference. So, why not let consumer make choice? Based on the success of the Mazda3 its hard to say mazda is doing something wrong...This is purely speculation, but if mazda thought that adding it as a std feature would increase sales they would do it..

I am almost certain that you will see the next Mazda3 have standard side airbags/curtains and ABS across the board

well you shouldn't be so certain...the 2008 mazda3 lists the side bags as an option on the 'i' models...

rorr

"...the 2008 mazda3 lists the side bags as an option on the 'i' models..."

Whoops, now you've done it.....

So, what changes to content can we expect for the various trim levels of the mazda3 for '08? (Really curious about the Speed3 and whether or not white might be a color option). :shades:

skyblu88

Appreciate reading everyone's posts...very helpful in making a decision.

I have driven in the Mazda 3. Love the ride, fit and finish, and body styling. Can't wait to test drive one.

As far as VW goes, almost every VW owner i talk to has had a litany of problems to tell and bad dealer experiences on top of that. I think that VW makes the best looking cars on the road (inside and out) and the ride is solid and fun, but it is a shame that VW has not been able to address the same electrical and reliability problems that have plagued them for the last 10 years. Is VW management that bad, or are they that arrogant and just do not care. Even the U.S. car companies have done more to address their quality issues in the past few years.

My mechanic of 20 years tells me to stay away from VW and certain other European makes, but one only needs to browse CR or see the missing hubcaps and door trim on many VWs to know to shy away.

I do think that it is great that VW is putting out a TDI Rabbit in 2008. We need more clean diesels in the U.S. to run bio-diesel, one of the key alternative fuels of the future.

If Honda made a sporty 4-door wagon to compete with the Rabbit, Mazda 3, or Matrix, i would buy one in a heartbeat. My 13 year old civic is still solid inside and out and still has great pick-up. In comparison, my mom's 13 year old Corolla has half the mileage as my civic and rattles like a box of broken light bulbs. (So much for Toyota quality.) I did test drive the Matrix, but felt like i was in a pick-up truck. Very awkward seating.

And the Honda Fit is just too small. I don't care how great the ratings and gas mileage are, i would not want to take a hit from a Suburban in the Fit, or any other subcompact.

autonomous

We need more clean diesels in the U.S. to run bio-diesel, one of the key alternative fuels of the future

... in the U.S. and elsewhere!

audia8q

They threatened to exile me to Siberia if I spilled the beans....I don't like cold weather so y'all have to wait a little bit more for the details.

backy

That's very interesting. I am surprised that Mazda is introducing the next Mazda3 for MY 2008. It's only four years old. I would think they'd focus on the all-new Mazda6 for 2008. Do you have any pics or other info on this next-gen Mazda3?

shirotori

I've been reading some and it seems the tires for the M3 aren't so good; they seem to wear out fairly fast and don't handle so well in bad weather. How are the tires on the Rabbit? How do they handle in the rain and also the snow in the winter?