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Mazda3 2.3 vs. '07 VW Rabbit

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Comments

  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    No we are not experts, but what we are discussing does not require one to be and expert to understand, and yes we are here to learn, but what you are stating wasn't a matter of opinion. You basically knocked one car, when the discussion at hand is about a completely different one.

    But now you know huh? :P
  • stallionrestallionre Posts: 205
    This I agree with it. Each year that we learn all about a car, a new line comes out for us to start all over again to compare. Hey, this can be fun to do year after year. I didn't mean to knock a car, however I had the worst experience with that car and it made me frustrated to no end to waste so much money. It took me 4 years to recover that money. All is done and is in the past now, as we move on. I love my new 2007 Mazda M3S GT. I made the right choice in getting this car. :)
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    NO, when the current gen Golf/Rabbit first came out, it was under the name Golf. Then shortly thereafter, they announced the change back to Rabbit. From Rabbit to Golf, and back to Rabbit. It's nothing more than a name game. The fact that it more or less coincided with the model-cycle changeover did not mean VW came out with a completely new model.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    where are you getting this from? Yes you can find a 2006 golf, but it won't look like the rabbit. Go to kelly blue book yourself and look for it. It will look like the previous generation. When the entire model changed is when the name changed end of story. You could even look it up under wikipedia since I apparently cannot convince you otherwise.

    The only place that the current gen rabbit remains the golf is in europe. End of story.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    My only question is, who cares?! They could have renamed it eldainorabbitgolf, but it won't change the fact that the current Rabbit is still just an evolution of an existing model, which started out as a Rabbit, then got changed to Golf, now back to Rabbit. End of story.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    what do you mean who cares? Isn't every new car an evolution of the prior model? The argument here was that stallionaire didn't understand that the car changed completely when the name changed to rabbit. Thats when vw decided to release the new model, and under that name. No one is arguing that models don't evolve, but wether they change their names or not still doesn't mean that they are all the same car!

    The golf has not been called the rabbit since back in the 70's when it first came to our shores!

    I don't think this is an issue about 'caring'. I'm just stating facts. All your posts have insinuated that the rabbit, in its form now, has always been this way and that a name change was all that occured in 2006. WRONG.

    The sheetmetal, suspension (torsion ---->independent), engine (2.0 115 hp ----> 2.5 150 hp), interior, chassis, everything, is part of a brand new model. Will a golf always be a golf? Yes but there a differences between the generations! DUH! Isn't the mazda 3 just a successor to the protege with a changed name and revised styling, suspension, drivetrain, interior, suspension etc? Yes, thats why its called a FULL MODEL CHANGE.

    YOu seemed earlier to not be able to understand this concept. Other examples: yes the new civic is still a civic, but its worlds different than its previous version. Same goes for the mazda 3, the nissan sentra, the vw rabbit, (regardless of name change) and the list goes on and on! Would it make sense to harp on a 1970's rabbit and say that the new one is the same thing? NO! They are worlds apart and ALL vehicle models vary, sometimes VERY drastically from thier previous generation.

    This conversation is not about the rabbit anymore, its about trying to clarify that if new models of cars don't interest you, then you'd have a tough time dealing with the automotive industry and how it works in general!
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    The 2006 Rabbit is totally new. New from the ground up. The last time in the US that the name "Golf" was used was 2005.

    Now in Germany, the current U.S. market Rabbit was called the Golf last year. I think since 2004?
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    I never said the car hasn't been changed. Everyone knows every car gets changed every X number of years. I just said who cares what they call it. The change from Golf to Rabbit was strictly marketing. You seem to think just because it has a new name it has become a completely new model. What if they changed the name mid-cycle? That would really throw you for a loop, wouldn't it? VW figures "Rabbit" would sell better in North America. Would it matter if Honda changed the name of the Civic every time there is a model-cycle changeover? I've wasted enough time trying to make a very basic point. If it makes you feel better to recite all your "facts", then go knock yourself out.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    NO, when the current gen Golf/Rabbit first came out, it was under the name Golf.... The fact that it more or less coincided with the model-cycle changeover did not mean VW came out with a completely new model.

    you never said the car hasn't been changed huh?

    I never argued that because you change a model's name; it makes it a new car. If you change the name of the civic to something else, and everything remains the same, yes its still a civic.

    With the golf, when it was time for a COMPLETE redesign, they decided to change the name along with it. Why is that hard to understand? If you don't car what they call it, fine. This whole thing started because someone who owned a u.s. spec GOLF (previous gen) stated that the RABBIT (current gen) sucked, when he's never driven it and he admitted to that.

    EVEN if they NEVER changed the name, his comments would have still been unfair, because he would still have to deal with the fact that this thread is about the current generation (MKV) and he owned a previous one. (MKIV)

    You seem to think just because it has a new name it has become a completely new model.


    No I DON'T. But in the case of the rabbit, when they changed the model, they...also...changed...the...NAME!

    What if they changed the name mid-cycle? That would really throw you for a loop,

    No it wouldn't, but it certainly has for you! :sick:

    I've been very plain with my posts, to the point where another poster (avi) has had to tell you that, YES it is a totally different car from the previous generation.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    yes avi you are right; it took the us a little while longer to get the MKV, even when europe had already had it for awhile. There and only there has the golf, including this generation, ever reamained called the golf.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    "...coincided with the model-cycle changeover."

    Which part of that did you not understand? Would it help you if I typed more slowly?

    Changes, upgrades, makeovers, updates from generation to generation do not make it a "new model", you moron. When VW introduced the Phaeton, the Toureg, the Tiguan...those are "new models". Take you for example, next year you could get a new wardrobe, gain/lose 10 lbs, but it would still be the same pompouse obnoxious you.

    "EVEN if they NEVER changed the name, his comments would have still been unfair, because he would still have to deal with the fact that this thread is about the current generation (MKV) and he owned a previous one. (MKIV)"
    He was commenting on the reliability of his Golf, and in that respect, it most certainly was fair for him to reference the experience he had with his car. Time will prove him right or wrong, but it is fair for him to so comment.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,426
    This is getting tiresome. :cry:
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    Oh, tell me about it!! :sick:
  • socal2006socal2006 Posts: 44
    Actually, in his original post, stallioner said he had a rabbit and it sucked. He didnt say anything initially about reliability, although one might imply that is what he meant with his comments about "j" cars.

    In fact, the ambiguity and harshness of his post was what really put off eldaino. Stallioner initially just said the rabbit sucked, while giving no concrete reasons. Those sort of comments are essentially pointless.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,854
    Maybe we can swing back to the cars now? :sick:

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  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    He made it clear he was referring to reliability issues in a follow-up post shortly thereafter. So, taken in context, to say his Golf/Rabbit sucked wasn't particularly harsh or offensive, especially since poor VW reliability isn't any great revelation. So for someone to then stand on a soapbox and rant and rave about whether a Golf is, or isn't a Rabbit, was, I thought, over-the-top and rather obnoxious.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,426
    OK I will start.

    I think both cars are good drivers cars. I also think it is great that they both have such readily available safety features such as stability control. Honda and Toyota should take notice. I especially appreciate that they are 4 door hatchbacks - the second most usefull bodystyle (to the station wagon). More companies should take notice of this as well.

    On the other hand fuel economy could be much better. The Mazda 3 is 300 lbs less than an Accord and has a smaller engine, yet uses more fuel. The Rabbit is even worse - partly because it weighs as much as an Accord and has a larger engine with less power.

    I was on the brink of purchasing a 3 hatch, but it was vetoed at the last moment for lack of rear seat room (I am but one vote). If the 3 hatch had the 2.0 liter engine that does significntly better mpg wise with very little loss of pep (I am comparing stick shift models) I might have been compelled to go for 2/3 majority to counter the veto. ;) I really wish they made that combo. It saddens me that Mazda feels people who want an efficient 4 door hatch will only purchase one if it has a larger engine.

    As far as VW goes. I never really considered it this time around (I have owned a VW in the past - 1980 Scirocco). It had a little less room than the Mazda, and I feel had become too heavy for its size. It weighs over 50% more than the first Rabbits we had, and has not too much more room. I have always liked the driving dynamics of VW's though especially the nice thick steering wheels and heavy communicative steering. To me the magic bullet for VW is the diesel engine. A TDI would have had me extremely interested - in fact a TDI Jetta wagon would have catapulted to the top of my list.

    I apologize if this is off the current topic. :shades:
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    Even though you are way off-topic :P ;) , let me add that I think the Mazda 3 is a great package in terms of style, price, feature and performance, although I have no experience with its gas economy. The recent addition of a 5-speed auto and full complement of airbags really put it on another level. I only wished it offered traction control.

    If the Rabbit had better mpg, and wasn't saddled with the VW reliability reputation, it would be unmatched in the small hatch segment. 6-speed auto, curtain airbags, traction and stability control, classy interior, gas hood struts.... The only other small hatch to beat it that I can think of, are the Mini, and Volvo C30. But those models cost thousands more, and the VW offers much more utility.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    Oh geez. This is never going to end. b, if you would clarify yourself, then maybe this conversation would'nt even be taking place.

    You have yet to directly answer all of my questions. I'm trying to explain something to you, but you just want to call me names, and if your going to resort to such juvinile things thats fine, i'll just deal w/it. :blush:, but i wont resort to it.

    I cant really tell where you stand on this subject anymore; you have never really answered any of the questions i've asked you.

    Out of all this arguing though, we can both agree on the following;

    A car getting its name changed does not make it a new car. I never stated otherwise.

    But that was not my original argument was it?

    Its obvious that your definition of a 'new' car means a car that is new to the market IN GENERAL, such like the tiguan and the phaeteon, vw's that had never been seen before by anyone and were a new vehicle to the small suv/large lux sedan segment. Ok fine.

    But...about 90% of everyone else will agree with me in that when a car gets REDESIGNED top to bottom, its safe to say that it is different enough from the previous version to be called 'all new.'

    And despite what YOU may think, other car manufacturers have called their re-designs 'new.' Who hasn't heard of the 'all new civic', the 'all new mazda 3' or the 'all new toyota camry'?

    Has vw always had a 2 or 4 door hatch to market to the massess? Yes. DUH. This, per say, is not new. I've always known that, and so have countless other people. Do you really think that by changing the name to "Rabbit" i thought it was a new car in that sense? Everything i have posted has C...L...E..A...R...L...Y stated otherwise, and that i realize its the latest version of the golf. That was never,EVER the issue!!! :sick: I didnt think this was difficult to understand, but you could have at least stated that a new car TO YOU, only means a completely brand new model.

    But there is a difference between redesign and new model and both could merit the reference of being 'new.'

    If this is your stance on this basic prinicpal of the automotive industry's tendency to update and improve its products, you will never see eye to eye with anyone who has a newer version of a car that has been in production under the same name.

    I guess you don't like new cars. You obviously would never drive the newer version of what you are driving now, since all your posts have explicitly shown that you feel that its just the same thing. :blush:

    In one of your first posts, you stated or at least insinuated that vw came out with a next gen golf, and then changed the name shortly after. This is simply not true. They changed the name along with the redesign, which
    makes it seem so funny that you feel so strongly about this, since the mazda 3 kinda did the same thing, the name was changed to mazda 3 when the redesign took place. But no one is harping on the 3 are they? :confuse: :blush:

    Lets forget the name rabbit for a second. I think that its too much for your mind to handle at the moment. If stallionaire was complaining about the golf, ok he has every right to do so. But 2 things are outstanding:

    1. Its lame to post why you hate a car without any reason. He gave that later on, but would not have done so if no one had called him out on it. End of story.

    2. Because of the golfs name change to 'rabbit' when the new model came out, it came to light that he was actually talking about the PREVIOUS GENERATION of golf, and had no real right to harp on the MKV. (when he only owned an MKIV) there is no denying that this is ignorant and unfair regardless of if you think that the newest generation merits the term 'all new car or not'.

    I'm going to give another example, and use lots of spaces for your sake;

    the mazda 3 is a successor to the protege, but mazda could have kept the name 'protege' and the car still would have been a complete 'all new' redesign.

    Now read very carefully this is the important part....if i owned a protege 5, and it gave tons of problems, and my experience was just horrendous with it, would it be fair for me to just come out and say, 'the mazda 3 hatch sucks' when my experience is based upon the previous generation?

    NO. Plain and simple. There is NO arguing that point. The fact that they changed the name to mazda 3 is irrelevant, just like how chaning the name to rabbit is irrelevant, because the fact still remains that they are practically 2 different vehicles when compared to their previous versions.

    There really is nothing left to say. I've stated the facts not opinions, and i can only hope your brain is large enough to process the information.

    Have a nice day!
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,426
This discussion has been closed.