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What Will Be a Future Classic?

Somewhere on the web I saw a topic which mentioned the the BMW M3 was tomorrows high dollar classic.

I have 2 questions for everyone.

#1 - Does anyone else concure that this is possible?

#2 - What else will make the grade?

Like the '57 Chevy convertible in mint shape is worth a nice 6 digit figure for a $3,000.00 (give or take) new priced car in it's hayday!
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Comments

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,520
    BMW M3s have never been a high dollar collectible, so why would they suddenly become one? Makes no sense to me.

    And six figures is not the going rate for '57 Chevy convertibles...dont' confuse real world prices with an occasional drunken bidding orgy on TV.

    Having said that, perhaps a mint '57 Belair with Fuel Injection and restored to perfection might approach 100K, but it would have to be an exceptional car at an exceptional event on an exceptional day.

    Real money for a restored one? Maybe $75,000 for a quality item. A clean driver? $40--50,000 is plenty.

    But BMW M cars? Geez, they've always tanked in the collectible market as soon as they get old.

    Maybe that's because a '57 Belair convertible looks so much better and glamorous than a '57 Chevy 4-door, but an M3 looks pretty much like any other of the gazillion BMWs on the road.

    MODERATOR

  • From what I recall - the logic was that is wasn't made for many years like a lot of other cars.

    .... but that's why I am asking!

    Trying to figure out what has a potential to be a future victim of insanity :shades: !

    Looking to get an edge up on my 7-year old's college fund!
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,563
    I think very few modern cars will become wild collectibles like the current muscle car fad. They are too complex and are doomed to fail sooner or later unless impeccably maintained. I'd buy something I can drive for fun and hope to break even when costs are considered. Even AMG and M cars etc hit a low value over time, and don't seem to budge. Modern cars are not an option.
  • but back in the late 70's I picked up a '68 GTO convertible with a slap stick for $400.00 and before that I had a '62 or there abouts Chevy Biscayne that I bought for $50.00 running. Also had a '70 AMC Javelin that was had for $300.00 in about '79.

    The kids now a days are tricking out Mercury Merkur's, Subaru's, and those cars from J. A. Pan with computer chips and nitrous, and who knows what else.

    Look at car shows this year! They accept up to 1984 - that is getting away from the old round head lights. I haven't seen any winning at the shows but they are starting to be entered.

    It would be nice to figure where the trend is heading!
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,896
    Looking to get an edge up on my 7-year old's college fund!

    I'd say try stocks, mutual funds, or even CDs for investment value before you mess with old cars. To put it in perspective, my Mom took out a bunch of savings bonds for me starting in 1970 when I was born. She actually put them away somewhere ages ago and forgot about them. After all, savings bonds don't hit final maturity for 30 years, and 30 years is a long, long time. Or so it seems.

    Suddenly, I was 33, and she found the things and gave them to me. I had 3 years worth of savings bonds to cash in at that point, and since then I've been cashing them in, a few at a time, as they hit the 30 year mark. On average, the typical $25 bond that she paid $18.75 for 30 years ago is now worth about $133. Or, a total return of about 709%. How many cars from 1976 are worth 7+ times their original purchase price today? Heck, how many cars from 1976 are even worth their original MSRP!

    Even if you go back to a more "golden" era, such as 1957, once you factor in for inflation, how many cars would even be worth their original purchase price? According to an inflation calculator, $1.00 in 1957 is like $7.00 today. And that hypothetical 1957 fuelie Bel Air convertible, if decently equipped, was probably damn near $4000 back then. So figure that's like about $28,000 today. So if you could get $100K for one today, that's not even a 4x return on your investment. Then figure insurance for all those years. Repairs, maintenance, storage, etc. And if it wasn't maintained lovingly, figure that to get it to a value of $100,000, you might actually spend close to that in restoring it!

    By and large, cars are not investments. The name of the game is usually seeing how little you lose, instead of how much you make.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,896
    Look at car shows this year! They accept up to 1984 - that is getting away from the old round head lights. I haven't seen any winning at the shows but they are starting to be entered.

    That's just more of a fact that most car shows cut it off at 20 or 25 years, and many jurisdictions let you put historic tags on a car when it reaches 25 years of age. FWIW, I've put my '79 New Yorker in the Chrysler show at Carlisle for 5 years now. And in 2003 it actually won 3rd place in its class! However, that still doesn't change the fact that it's still just an old car that only I and maybe 5-6 others in the Western Hemisphere really have any appreciation for.

    There's a big car show in Macungie, PA, where the car has to be 25 years old. Same for the car show in Hershey, PA in October. I'm putting my '76 LeMans in the Macungie show this year (if I'm not too late). Still, the reason that you now see Vegas, Chevettes, Pintos, 70's mastodons, etc at these shows doesn't mean that it's because they're suddenly ultra-valuable. It just means that they're finally 25+ years old!

    Now, sometimes there are cars that do become very valuable as they age, and sometimes you can get really lucky. For example, around 1974-75 you probably couldn't give anything with a Hemi away. And if it was one of those winged Daytonas or Superbirds, it was actually common for the wing and the nose cone to get thrown in the dumpster and a conventional Satellite or Charger front-end fitted on, to make the thing more saleable! Yet today, I guess if you had a pristine, numbers-matching Hemi, you just might get $1 million for it.

    I think it's going to be hard for modern cars to do that. First off, in the old days, it was almost always the hardtop coupes and convertibles that commanded a premium. Today the hardtop is pretty much history, and the few convertibles that are left are fairly high-quantity items like a Sebring or Mustang convertible. Cars today are so standardized and mass-produced that you just don't get that much uniqueness anymore. While they might have only made 13 or so 1971 Hemi Barracuda convertibles with a 4-speed, fast forward to today and something like 40% of all Chrysler 300's leave the door with a a Hemi. And an automatic transmission and 4-doors.

    In many ways, I think cars have become a victim of their own success. Any modern Hemi would be much more comfortable and driveable than any old Hemi, but at the same time, it's just that much less unique, special, raw, dangerous, and exciting. Cars today may have improved, but it seems like they've sold their soul somehow.

    I know I've made this analogy before, but it makes me think of that old Twilight Zone episode where Ellie Maye Clampett was considered ultra-ugly, and these pig-nosed people were the norm, and after a series of operations, they just couldn't make Ellie Maye Clampett look like a pig! In his epilogue, Rod Serling said something like "Without ugliness, there can be no beauty". And I think in many ways that applies to cars. These days, a V-6 Accord sedan with an automatic tranny could beat many 60's musclecars in the quarter mile, yet do it with niceties such as air conditioning, an automatic tranny, power everything, and so on. Nowadays, a slow car is one that does 0-60 in more than 10 seconds. Back in the 60's, you had many cars that would take damned near a half-minute to hit 60! So these days, a car that can do 0-60 in 6-7 seconds is really nothing special, but back in the 60's, it really was. Now that even the weak, mundane ones are much more competent, it kind of takes away from the stronger, more special ones. Because they're just not THAT much stronger, special, luxurious, etc.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,520
    Rarity
    Horsepower
    Sensation with the public when new
    smashing good looks
    respected and admired

    Those would be 5 MINIMAL requirements that modern cars would have to meet to have any top tier value in the future.

    If you think of all the "hot" collectibles you're talkinga about, just about all of them would meet at least 4 out of the 5 categories.

    Remember also that the public drives the market, not the other way round. The muscle car market is hot because baby boomers with money want them. They are the engine of the market. Too many buyers and too few special cars.

    I don't think the 20 somethings of today will be lusting for today's modern cars, because they can own them now, on credit or by having daddy buy them. And there are very very few cars produced today in very limited numbers, like the high dollar Hemis.

    For a Hemi to be worth $1,000,000, just any old Hemi won't do. It would have to be 1 out of maybe 10 or 35 cars in existence. You don't see that today. A Hemi stuck in a Satellite coupe isn't going to sell for anything like that.

    A '58 Corvette is valuable, but you can't hardly give away a '79 or '80 (no power, no respect). Yet an 86 (or was it '87?) Buick GNX brings big bucks (there's the rarity and power)

    Even a 1996 Impala SS can bring decent money--the very rare case of a 4-door sedan being collectible. Why? It was rare, it was cool, it had some decent power, relative to all other American 4-doors of the time. Will it ever sell for big bucks? No, but it will always be of interest.

    MODERATOR

  • .... when my 7-year old hits my age (20 years old for the 28th time) and the baby boomer's are long gone there may be a serious reduction in Car Show content.

    I can't envision the car show & auto nostalgia trend fading to much. It seems like it has to encounter some sort of transition into something that will retain an interest beyond the old school auto's.
    ____________________________________________________

    andre1969 Savings Bonds?? :shades: NAW! That's boring!
    Besides that; by having things that my son will have to work at selling will make him more appreciative to what things are really worth and give him some control in deciding what to keep and what to sell (for his kids).
    He is already showing a great interest and aptitude in what is being done to improve his mental and educational development.
    He is going to learn that even if it is JUST handed to him, it still won't be an easy walk in paradise.

    We have collected a ton of unusual stuff for him and even some acreage.
    Actually; if I were to sell off everything - I would be able to do a FULL & COMPLETE restore on my Coup De and still get another classic daily driver.

    Taking a savings bond to a bank won't teach him much about valuing things in life - not that he doesn't already have some bonds (but 30 years isn't going to pay for college in 10 years - right?)...

    He isn't going to be a trust fund baby that gets everything handed to him!

    It's about that hand up not out!
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,896
    is what's going to happen to the really old cars, like Model A's and 30's and 40's cars and such. I imagine that something like a nice Duesenberg, Pierce Arrow, Auburn, etc will always be worth a small fortune, but as these older people who have the real old cars die out, what will happen to them?

    Even with something like DeSotos, I let my membership with the DeSoto club of Maryland expire because I just didn't have much in common with most of the other members. I bought the thing when I was 20. I'd say that the three next youngest members were old enough to be my father, and most of the rest were so old they were practically swapping Civil War stories and tales of the Great Flood and that loon who built the big boat and rounded up all the animals!

    I did notice at Carlisle this past weekend though, there was a pretty good turnout of DeSotos. Probably at least 15. I remember the first time I went to the Mopar show in 1997. There was only one DeSoto, as I recall, a blue 1959 Firesweep hardtop made to look like a convertible. It had been used in the movie "Mystery Date".

    Now I can always see 50's cars, at least from about 1955 and onward, having some interest, just because they were so wild by today's standards. Tailfins, chrome, a vast array of colors and interior choices, and the dawn of performance. Your typical V-8 50's car, even a mild one, can still keep up with modern traffic. In contrast, many cars older than that just aren't that adept at coping with today's higher speeds.

    And I'm sure that the musclecars, ponycars, and any convertible from the 60's onward will continue to hold interest. But I do wonder about the really old cars. They're nice as curiosities and museum pieces, but as their owners die off, I just can't imagine many of the future generations who don't remember them having much interest.
  • au1994au1994 Posts: 765
    No one knows, it's like speculation in the stock market. There are so many factors in play that realistically anything could become a valuable collectible.

    Lets just say that the gas situation gets really bad (6 or 8 dollar gas) in the next 20 or so years. Something as common as a V-8 F-150 or Hemi 300 may be worth big buck because the represent a bygone era just like the muscle cars do today and the Cord's and Duesenburgs did before that, when they were the gem of the collector market.

    What if it goes the other way and alternative fuels are found, cars become more effiecient and there is no longer a need for Prii, Fit's etc? Do they become collectible?

    Shfty is right (as usual) in that small production numbers, buzz at the time of launch and power usually bode well for a car's future collectability. Problem is, in the car manufacturers zeal to make money, there are few and far between examples of that situation anymore.

    My guess is that there are a few that have always had a following (Vette, Mustang) and will continue, but none of those will fetch a few million at the 2035 Barett-Jackson.

    Could be lean times for the car collector hobby in the not so distant future.

    2013 335i Sport Line Alpine White over Coral Red w/Black Trim

    2005 330cic ZHP Monaco Blue over Natural Brown w/Black Trim

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,520
    You know, it comes down to this: "A car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it".

    Sounds trite but rings true. If fewer and fewer people want Model Ts in the future, then they will go down and down in value to the point say, of old farm machinery---you'll have a few collectors who have the old barn to store them, but their value will stagnate and eventually, the families (inheritors) will be pulling their hair out deciding what to do with yet another old Model T or tractor. Remember they made 15 million Ts at least and there's still a good aftermarket. Abundance + loss of interest do not bode well.

    The Hemis of today could be the tulips of long ago Holland---one day, people might just wake up and say "Hey, wait a minute, a Plymouth isn't worth one million dollars"--and boom, the whole thing collapses in a heap in a matter of weeks.

    Maybe some of these collectibles are indeed "works of art" but they are big smelly, leaking works of art filled with gasoline that need constant repair and maintenance.

    Last of all, people get tired of seeing the same cars over and over again....I think only truly unique automobiles can capture people's imagination over the course of time.

    My predictions for which OLD cars will retain value?

    1. Capable of driving on modern roads
    2. Somewhat reliable
    3. Parts supply/aftermarket support
    4. Retention of the mythology surrounding the car (what was its STORY?)

    What's the story behind a '54 Studebaker 4-door? Pretty obscure to most of us today, totally lost to someone ten years from now----but a Hemi still might have a mythology.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,896
    but their value will stagnate and eventually, the families (inheritors) will be pulling their hair out deciding what to do with yet another old Model T or tractor.

    I know whomever ends up having to liquidate my estate when the time comes probably won't be pleased. Presuming I still have them, I guess the DeSoto and Catalina might be worth something. Probably the junkyard for the rest of them though. Unless by some off-chance someone rights a story about a possessed 1979 5th Avenue in a shade of red that wasn't offered from the factory that kills people and falls in love with its teenaged owner, and then a movie gets made about it, and there ends up being a rush of people who want a 1979 5th Avenue bad enough that they're willing to snatch up regular NYers, St. Regises, Newports, etc and try to make them look like that particular movie car. :P
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,563
    When the boomers are gone, it will indeed be a different world. I think enough of today's younger people like some older cars to retain demand, but it won't be like the insane market right now.

    Compare it to 20s cars 20-30 years ago. Many can be bought cheaper now than then. From the old magazines I have, it seems a nice Model A roadster was more in 1981 than today.

    You want a good investment? The old standby...property.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,563
    You're right about the plain old cars. They are not going to appreciate. It is already taking place, values over 25 years are not increasing...they peaked a generation ago. The very early cars and special cars will be worth something, but a plain 1925 model T or 1935 Dodge is not going to explode in value.

    Funny about the estate thing...I plan to have my fintail forever anyway...I am sure that won't have any heirs fighting.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,896
    You want a good investment? The old standby...property.

    That's true. Land is one thing they can't make any more of, and the population is going nowhere but up. I had thought about maybe buying the place behind my grandmother. It sold in 2003 and the owner started fixing it up, but then slowed down and it sat empty forever. A family just moved into it about a week ago. They're doing the rent-to-buy thing. The buy price? $375,000! He paid about $143K for it 3 years ago. I tried to buy it back then, but my agent said it needed so much work to not offer any more than $100K for it. The biggest strike against it was that it was hooked up to a septic tank of questionable reliability. And it was about 400 feet off the road, which would have cost a ridiculous amount to hook up to the sewer!

    I also don't think it would have been quite as easy to put a 4-car garage on its half acre lot, either. :)
  • john500john500 Posts: 409
    Among the common brands (neglecting rare cars such as the Lotus Elise, Acura NSX, etc), these are the closest to classics that I can think of since about 1990:

    1. Ford Mustang Bullit model (2001-?)
    Pros had limited release, common name, movie association
    Cons not particularly fast among Mustangs - some of the SVT Cobra models will likely be more sought after

    2. Toyota Supra Twin Turbo (1994-1997)
    Pros limited availability due to price shifting with later Supra models, good reputation among racers - already seeing high prices

    Cons might have been some turbo reliability issues since Toyota is out of the turbo market now

    3. Honda Civic SI (1999-2000)
    Pros moderate availability, however, very few are left that haven't been trashed by teenagers
    Cons not particularly fast

    4. Chevrolet Typhoon and Cyclone (late 1980's early 1990's) - not sure of the production dates - might be earlier than 1990
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,520
    Are Typhoons and Cyclones selling now for any "special" kind of money?

    The reason I ask is that if a car is still dormant, price-wise, after 15 years, it's not going anywhere. We live in the United States of Amnesia, and if people haven't been bitten by a "bug" for a certain kind of car after 15-20 years, that means they've forgotten about it.

    MODERATOR

  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    If you traveled back in time to yourself in 1996 and said, "Hang on to that 5-speed AE86 Corolla. People will be beating your door down for it." your old self would have thought you were insane. The AE86 was just another '80s econobox, and 'drifting' was some obscure form of reckless driving practiced by Japanese hoodlums.
  • lemmerlemmer Posts: 2,676
    You could have held onto one of those Corollas for ten years and watched it appreciate 2-3% a year (keeping up with inflation!) while you paid insurance, maintenance, repairs, storage and whatever else.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,520
    The really "hot" Japanese collectible has yet to appear...everytime someone tries to light one on fire, it smolders and goes out. The old 2000GT Toyota hardly counts, they only made a few of them, probably by hand. Most every other old Japanese car is either losing falling or just hanging stagnantly in the $15,000 and under range.

    Not sure why this is, but ultimately, it is a supply vs. demand equation. Yes we all love the 240Z but will we pay a bundle for one? Nope....

    MODERATOR

  • john500john500 Posts: 409
    Are Typhoons and Cyclones selling now for any "special" kind of money?

    With a quick glance, not really. They seem to be selling in the $ 10-15 K range (I'm assuming decent conditions). A good depreciation rate, but certainly not collector status yet. Perhaps the truck factor is also working against it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,520
    Well it took darn near 60 years for a 1950 Chevy pickup to hit $20,000, so maybe you're right. Trucks aren't the likeliest candidates.

    MODERATOR

  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,896
    let's suppose, way back in 1990 when I bought my '57 DeSoto, I had taken every penny I had saved up at the time, about $22K worth, and bought a '57 Chevy instead. How much '57 Chevy could that have gotten me back then? And what, about, would it be worth today?
  • lemmerlemmer Posts: 2,676
    Stealth has no chance - it was always a last place car behind the Supra, 300ZX, RX-7, Corvette, and anything else that happened to be in any given comparison.

    Come to think of it, I suspect most people even preferred the virtually identical Mitsu 3000.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    I heard that a Plymouth Barricuda recently sold for $910,000 somewhere. For some reason these 'Cudas have become some sort of a cult-collector's car. It wouldn't surprise me that the value of these drop in the future when the fad wears off. Still, a friend at work just got $30,000 for a very rusted '71 Cuda that had sat for fifteen years or so. And it was not a Hemi.

    Speaking of DeSotos, there is a '41 coupe for sale just around the corner from me. It's 100% and in very good unrestored condition. The seller started two years at $15K and is now down to $9800. Nice car, too. Wish I could justify the money.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,896
    the '71-74 Barracuda and Challenger never really turned me on. Maybe it's just because they were kind of late to the game, and seemed like a copy of the '67-69 Camaro/Firebird.

    I have learned to appreciate them more as the years have gone by, but I think I'd much rather have a '67-69 Barracuda, in any of the three body styles it offered. There was just something mildly exotic about them. They were also a well-enough balanced car that even a 273-4bbl or 318-2bbl could be fun, and the 340 could embarrass a few big-block cars.

    One of my neighbors, back in 1990, had a 1970 Barracuda hardtop for sale. I remember he wanted $4K for it. Now I'm sure that if I could go back in time and look at it, I'd see all sorts of flaws, but at the time it seemed just about perfect. I remember he wanted $4K for it. It was just a 318/automatic though, nothing really exciting.

    I wonder what something like that would go for nowadays? Oh, it was green, too. Kind of a light, silvery/olive green that seemed common back then. At the time I really didn't care for that color. I tended to prefer darker greens, like emerald, forest, etc, or greenish-blues. Nowadays though, I find myself more attracted to more varieties of green, as long as they're not TOO pukey!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,520
    I saw a pretty decent '70 cuda 318 coupe sell recently for $9,000. New paint, rebuilt motor, a very clean #3 car. Sounds about the right price.

    I don't know what kind of rusty Barracuda could sell for $30,000 that wasn't a Hemi----maybe a 'Cuda 440, 440-6 or AAR with original VIN tags, etc. But not a 383.

    MODERATOR

  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Interesting how some cars which were so popular back in the 60's and 70's are not represented in auto shows. And the craze about HP and Hemi and such is kinda off the charts. I was driving in the latest 60's on. What I recall were a few kids that owned some hot cars, but there seemed to me to be a desire to own both sports cars and power cars. It wasn't all about hot Chevy, Chrysler/Dodge, or Fords. As I recall popular cars included the low cost Datsun 510, which is still raced for sport, the Z car which was an icon, the Porsches from 914 to 911, Dodge Dart with a slant six, MGB sports cars, Celicas, and well let's just say it wasn't all Mustangs, though I owned a '65 back in early 70's. It was a 289, but all stock.

    You would think about all the talk about the good ol' days, everyone owned a Shelby or a Hemi 'Cuda. Plenty of other classics, or should I say collector cars, like the Volvo sports cars, Triumphs, BMW 1600, 1800, and 2002, Csi, Mercedes Coupes, as well as, the cheap cars with a lotta heart, like Opel Manta Rallye, or Capris don't seem to make the shows.

    Around here, in California, the Mercedes SL convertibles of all ages seem to be really popular as daily drivers.

    Of the current model cars, I guess the Chrysler 300 and the Cadillac CTS come to mind as future collectables. As classics - not. If I was a multi-millionaire, I guess I would be more interested in classics, though rarity of a car is not as important to me as actually really loving the car. Would rather own a modern day Corvette than say a rare sports car which was hard to find parts for, prone to break, and unimpressive to drive. If I had serious money to invest, I guess one rare car and two fun cars, and perhaps a luxo for the cruising to round things off would be a good thing.

    Maybe I was not born to be a collector, as I see baseball cards as a piece of paper with a photo on it, mass produced in a print shop, and nothing more. Now it was hand painted by a famous artist?

    And I am happy without a Hemi. Well it wouldn't hurt I guess -- you buying the gas ;)
    -Loren
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,520
    maybe it's more about what people didn't have or couldn't buy when they were young that drives the market for very rare Mopars these days.

    I mean, take a common and very popular car like a 1965 Mustang coupe. Today they are still plentiful and cheap.

    Anything....ANYTHING....with gobs of HP will always be "collectible", though not necessarily classic or high-priced in the future.

    MODERATOR

  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    That is so true. What we wished for back when. I too think about getting a used 300ZX or a Prelude. Great cars, but hard to justify the cost back when, or just did not have the extra bucks at the time. Too bad the new 350Z has those too tall door window sills, and tire eating problems. Not a bad looking car. That said, not as good as the 300ZX of '95, and the very first Z cars, which had a charm about them. No not looking for an early Z with that light steel. Too dangerous in an SUV world. Now the last Prelude, is a classic, I think. Though prices up to $26K back then were a bit much. Always a great handling car.

    Great handling, where it comes to classics sales is on the bottom of the list -- but why? I guess HP has bragging rights, and a good and balance, well handling car means nothing. Interesting.

    I suppose it is just me, but I see the previous Mustangs, not only Bullit and Boss, but all those of the Fox body as good and honest efforts. Sure the New Stang handles better, and may be stiffer and such, but it is digging so much into the replicar realm, it loses the next best look or next best rendition of the Pony, IMHO. To go back to say '69 for the exterior, then use the style of interior dash and gauges from '65 seems to me a little bit retro/replica/silliness. The gauges are harder to read anyway. And '65 was hardly the best interior styling. Actually the '94 had the look, and only need some refinement to the plastics and feel (knobs, and such). I don't think the '05 will ever be a collector car. I would go '95, the last 5.0 or '99/'04 the last of the Fox body + edge look, before considering the new ones as collectables. And yes, none are rare.

    Crossfire sports car may be a rare find some day.

    As for good looking old collector sporty cars, I do like the older Stangs, AMX/Javelins, 'Cuda and Challengers, Demons, and Dusters, Olds 442, '68 Toronado, Lotus, and well a whole lotta cars out there.

    In luxury, if you have a '65 Riviera, 2002 Eldorado, Mark VIII, any older BMW, and some Mercedes, they all may be seen as collectables in a few years time.

    Thinking about a Prelude right now. Or in buying into a luxury class the last Eldo. How can Cadillac go on without the Eldo. It is like life without Elvis. Oh yeah, life goes on. :shades:
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