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What Will Be a Future Classic?

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,050
    No it's already stupid-fast and well beyond the capabilities of 99% of the people who would buy one.

    If you even run over a fist-sized rock at 185 mph, you are dead meat.

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  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,205
    I agree with what both of you said. The '09 Corvette is a really nice car, and a performance bargain.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,050
    Yep, you cannot go any faster any cheaper, AND get over 20 mpg!!

    My only gripe about Corvettes is they do not seem to hold up cosmetically. After 4-5 years, you can see the wear and tear unless you are a very careful type.

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  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,108
    I don't think that it would be the end of the world to let the 'vette "coast" for a few years with only detail improvements.

    You're right. After all the C3 vette stayed unchanged for 15 years, and the C4 for 14 years. So if this one debuted in 2005, and money is tight, we might not see any change until 2020. By then there will be either no Corvette, or some oddball hybrid version. :sick:

    By the way Oregonboy, my wife and I drove down the Oregon coast a few weeks ago and you guys have some of th most beautiful scenic highways. :shades:

    2007 BMW 328i Sports Pkg, 1993 Honda Accord EXR (my 33rd car).

  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    Corvette not totally highly regarded. Saw a review in WSJ recently where the tester/writer dumped on the poor interior of the ZR1.

    Another thing about the Vette is that it probably would do very poorly in a head-on.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,050
    Yes but if a car has charisma and great performance, collectors forgive all kinds of faults. Look at vintage Ferraris for instance. If your new car had the reliability and build quality of a '65 Ferrari, you'd burn it.

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  • texasestexases Posts: 5,607
    "Saw a review in WSJ recently where the tester/writer dumped on the poor interior of the ZR1."

    I was disappointed with that article, latest C&D loved it, and (surprisingly) Top Gear drove it, a CTS-V, and a Challenger SRT-8, and loved them all. They usually dump on our crude Yank iron.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,050
    The Corvette isn't "crude" (like the Viper). It's comfy, rides great, handles well enough if you don't push your limitations....what they are hammering on is the same old story for domestics----build quality and quality of materials.

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  • texasestexases Posts: 5,607
    Oh, I agree on the Corvette, but Top Gear loves to dump on Corvettes in particular. That's why I was so surprised at their glowing review. They drove the 3 from San Francisco to Bonneville, then did standing start mile tests.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,217
    Saw the ZR-1 at the car show, today...

    It's pretty impressive... even without thinking of the 600+ hp ... :surprise:

    But... And, I think I have this right... there was a CTS-V.. $63K... 556 HP!!

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  • oregonboyoregonboy Posts: 1,653
    $63K... 556 HP!!

    And world wide economic crisis...
    I think that we have reached some kind of pinnacle. Generations from now they will look back in wonder...

    Grampa! Grampa!... tell us a story about the the time of the auto-cars !!!! :surprise: :P :sick:
  • corvettecorvette United StatesPosts: 4,140
    The CTS-V (or STS-V) would work as a daily driver, the ZR-1, well, the first time you scrape that huge carbon fiber lip, I bet it costs well over $1,000 to replace.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,050
    I wonder if they fixed the CTS-V's shifter? Hope so! Last year the reviews were whining about it incessantly. And well... DUH...on a performance sedan, one would like a good shifter.

    How does GM let these things out the door? They MUST have fixed it. Any reviews on the new one?

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  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,205
    No, of course it'll never be a classic. Not even close. However, I could see the Genesis coupe becoming a collectible with a modest to moderate following, similar to, say, the 280 Nissan Zs and first generation ('84-'89) 300 ZXs, and Fox-platform Mustangs and similar era GM pony cars. What I'm suggesting is a level of collectability that supports a price that's significantly greater than the sedans (think '84-'89 Camry, Accord, Stanza or even Maxima) of these brands.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,205
    Mazda has announced that it has stopped production of this car. While the RX-8 may never qualify as a classic, I think it has all the makings of a special interest car; a unique powerplant, relatively low production, 4-doors, excellent performance and great handling qualities, pleasant and unique styling, reliability and practicality. I'll probably be in the market for one in a year or two. As a bonus, they'll be inexpensive when gas prices spike again.
  • michaellnomichaellno Posts: 4,300
    When I heard about this, I too thought it would be a great car to have.

    Slightly quirky (4 door sports car? More so than a Maxima, I should think), with the unique engine.

    My sister owned a Gen I RX-7 many years ago, and I was lucky enough to drive it on occasion. There really is nothing like a Wankel engine - if only they offered a bit more torque.

    It will be interesting to see what happens with the prices of used RX-8's after a year or two.

    Mazda has stated that they are committed to continue development of the rotary engine, but as of now there are no plans to bring anything to market.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,813
    Interesting cars, but I look at what a pristine 25 year old RX-7 is worth today, and I am not wanting to rush out and buy the new version as any kind of collectible.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,050
    edited September 2011
    Exactly---what happened to RX-7 pricing will happen to RX-8 pricing in my opinion anyway.....down and down until you can't believe it could go any lower.

    Why is this? Damned if I know. Buyers decide what is loved and unloved, and what to pay for various old cars. How do they decide these things? A mix of their opinion and media opinion I guess. We often only want something after everyone else expresses an interest.

    And they, the buyers, seem to have voted on old Japanese cars---occasionally they are merciful to them, but usually they have no interest in them as collectibles---with those few exceptions we can all name on the fingers of one hand.

    And even those exceptions are not big buck cars, but one (Toyota 2000GT).

    I don't see the Genesis or RX8 as anything more than an old beat up RX-7 in 20 years....scrap iron or a toy for a teenager with no money but in love with cars.

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  • I agree 100%. Modern cars to me will just become old, not become classics.
  • michaellnomichaellno Posts: 4,300
    I don't see the Genesis or RX8 as anything more than an old beat up RX-7 in 20 years....scrap iron or a toy for a teenager with no money but in love with cars.

    Generally, I'll agree with you, shifty, but given the low production numbers of the RX-8 over the past few years, I gotta believe that their value will eventually go up.

    Is the last gen RX-7 (twin turbo) worth more than a run of the mill 20 year old car?

    If nothing else, all the hooning and modding that takes place may make them more rare, if only through attrition (crashes and blown engines).

    On a recent episode of Top Gear (UK), they talked about a website that allows you to see how many of a particular make and model (and trim line) of any car are officially registered in the UK. One example they cited was the Vauxhall Chevette (our Chevy Chevette from the 70's & 80's). Apparently, there is only 1 with an automatic in the whole of England.

    Too bad there isn't a nationwide database here in the US that gives us the same information.

    "Hey, I've got the only '76 AMC Pacer with the Levi package in white! Woot woot!"

    :D :P
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,050
    Yeah but the Mazda Twin Turbo is extremely rare, has more HP than an RX-8, is faster, handles better and is better looking. In short, it buries an RX-8 in every category that matters to collectors. For its day in 1993, there were few cars that could touch it, and nothing in its price class.

    It seems to meet the basic criteria for collectiblity--it had performance, it had good looks, it was rare, and it was *dominant* in its class. These are all things that make up (although don't guarantee) collectible status. Another criterion would be prestige, which the RX-7 didn't have.

    If your car had the 3Ps----prestige, performance and pretty---that's a long way toward collectibility. Add rarity and dominance and you'd pretty much have a lock on being a "classic" someday.

    So the RX-7 TT, in my opinion, has 4 out of 5---hence a "collectible" and yet very affordable.

    Try out that formula and have fun, with other cars you can think of:

    performance
    prestige
    rarity
    great looks
    dominance in its class

    The Genesis fails on most counts, even a 90s Corvette struggles. A Delorean flops on most. But a first generation Viper? Well, it meets at least 3 criteria.

    So I think the more criteria the car meets, the more valuable it gets.

    If you come up with a car that meets all 5 but is cheap to buy, then that represents, to me, an opportunity for appreciation in the future.

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  • michaellnomichaellno Posts: 4,300
    Got it.

    Just for grins, I searched for every 1992 and newer RX-7 for sale in the US. 78 active on AutoTrader, with an average asking price of $16,500.

    For the RX-8, there are over 1500 for sale, with an average asking price of (gasp!) $16,700.

    So, I'll concede the point about the RX-7 being more collectible than the RX-8.

    Now, let's talk about the Nissan GT-R .... collectible or no?

    :P
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,813
    The fun part is to see how little a 25-30 year old RX-7 is worth. The turbo is an anomaly, IMO.

    Re: GT-R, maybe a minor collectible or special interest car like older M and AMG cars - but I have to wonder how those electronics will age.
  • michaellnomichaellno Posts: 4,300
    The fun part is to see how little a 25-30 year old RX-7 is worth.

    My sister owned a Gen I RX-7. An '84 GS, IIRC, that she bought in 1986. She begged and pleaded with my parents to co-sign on the loan with her. I remember her payments being $262/mo and she worked her tail off each month to earn that money.

    She kept it until she got pregnant with her first son (1997) and sold it for $2200. She cried as the new owner drove off.

    I truly believe she would have kept that car if she could.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,813
    That's a shame...probably should have kept it, arranged for someone to store it.

    You can get a nice earlier RX-7 for not much more than a few grand today.
  • michaellnomichaellno Posts: 4,300
    That's a shame...probably should have kept it, arranged for someone to store it.

    They needed something with a backseat. IIRC, they bought a '95 or '96 Infiniti G20. My BIL had an Acura Integra.

    Now, with 3 kids (14, 10 and 7), he has a 330i and she drives a Navigator.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,050
    Yeah, Japanese cars have an awfully hard time becoming collectible, and rarely achieve a top tier collector status. The GT-R is not particularly rare, although its performance potential cannot be denied. If not 'dominant" in its class, it's darn close.

    So performance yes, prestige no, rarity no, dominance --not clearly defined, styling not particularly.

    So I'd say "doubtful" but with that much HP someone is always going to want one. I'd vote "minor collectible", never a classic. Like an NSX for instance...it may sit forever in the $20K class.

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,813
    From fun drivers cars to behemoth tanks. Good reason to not have kids :shades:
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,813
    I think for the NSX, RX-7, and so on...if they don't start appreciating within a decade or so...it's never going to happen. NSX is 20 years old now, the Mazda over 30, and not much is going on yet. Not always a bad thing though, makes nice ones affordable.
  • michaellnomichaellno Posts: 4,300
    From fun drivers cars to behemoth tanks. Good reason to not have kids

    Yeah, my sister has bounced between a Tahoe, an Odyssey and the Navigator.

    But, all the boys are involved in team sports (baseball, football) and so they will need to cart around teammates and equipment to away games.

    I know my sister recently tried to sell the Navigator. Not sure what she was planning what to replace it with, however.
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