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Mazda CX-7 Tires and Wheels

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Comments

  • syadastisyadasti Posts: 24
    FYI,

    Mazda is tricking/ripping off new CX-7 buyers with a last minute tire spec change.

    All the reviewers had CX7 with Eagle RS-A M+S. One of the reviews specifically mentions they were good tires.

    Well now Mazda is switching to some of the worst tires you can get - Bridgestone Turanza EL42...

    TireRack ranked them 23 out of 25 in that category:

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Turanza+E- L42

    Mazda should know better. Zoom zoom my [non-permissible content removed] :mad:
  • deaniedeanie Posts: 172
    Hi Sayadasti:
    If what you say is true about Mazda swaping the tires, I'm furious. That would probably sway me from getting the car. I have no desire to spend the better part of a grand on new tires for a new car to get it to perform the way it did in all the published tests.

    I was interested in the CX-7 specifically for its stellar braking and handling despite having all weather M+S tires. Usually high end performance tires are needed to get the CX-7's published numbers. Its braking/handling are so good I was willing to forgive it's 4-passenger capability. You can call it a 5-seater in Twiggy and her two clones were sitting in the back with her. You can't comfortably fit 3 across with only 55.8" of shoulder room (way too tight).

    With the EL42 marshmallows, we'll almost certainly see braking #'s from 60mph increase by 5-15 feet, slalom speeds decrease by 2-3 mph, and a ride a tad softer and more comfortable - not the best tradeoff where safety's concerned.

    I hope Mazda will be offering us a choice of tires. I hated the EL42's I had on my 05 Toyota Avalon - hated them. I sold the Avalon (not because of the tires) and am currently shopping CX-7 GT, Avalon Touring (Michelin tires), and an Odyssey EX-L minivan.

    Now that I've finished my rant, does anyone have any idea when NHTS and/or IIHS will test the CX-7? If it doesn't excel (5 stars all around), that would be be a big minus in my book. Getting the crappy tires AND not having the peace of mind of 5 star safety would definitely scratch the CX-7 off my list. Yes, I know the Odyssey (and possibly the Avalon Touring too) cannot match the CX-7 numbers even if CX-7 gets the EL42's, but they can carry 8 and 5 passengers respectively, and have a plethora of other benefits too numerous to list.

    Regards,
    Deanie
  • syadastisyadasti Posts: 24
    I agree about the tires. I now am not going to consider the CX7 and I'm postponing my purchase so I can try/drive the new competitors coming in the fall. Mazda not only doesn't have the new V6 that the Edge/CX9/MKX has but now has these worthless tires:

    http://www.bridgestoneamericas.com/news/news_index.asp?id=2006/060510a

    Maybe I'll consider a Mazdaspeed CX7 with proper tires and a DISI V6 if they make it. I'm pretty sure they could fit it in there as even GM managed to shoehorn the Honda J35 engine/tranny into the Saturn Vue cute ute...

    :mad: :mad: :mad:
  • zoom49zoom49 Posts: 76
    While at Mazda headquarters over the weekend I snaped a pic of a CX-7 on Bridgestones. Fron the several I saw they switched from Goodyears to Bridgestones aboout Vin 2000 or so.">http://www.msprotege.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=79467">
  • syadastisyadasti Posts: 24
    Write Mazda, Motortrend, Edmunds, Autoweek, etc, so they can exposed/stop this dirty trick!!!

    CX-7 reviews are not representative of production car performance with this underhanded tire swap. They should print this so Mazda will be embrassed and lose sales for this dirty cost cutting trick :mad:
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Now, I would like to think I am picky. I would never NOT buy a car because of the brand of tires that are on it.

    I really don't think the tire makes this car do all it does. Did you ever think the car was designed to do what the reviewers said it did? You might be giving the tires a bit too much credit.

    However, switching the tires is kinda stupid by Mazda. That I do agree with.
  • unixxusunixxus Posts: 97
    Most car manufacturers use multiple tire vendors and Mazda has always used Bridgestone as a supplier on all their vehicles. They never stated that Goodyear was going to be the sole tire supplier. If you take the time to read the Bridgestone statement you will notice that it states...

    “Bridgestone Firestone North American Tire, LLC (BFNT) announced today that Bridgestone brand Turanza tires will be ONE of the original equipment tires to be fitted on Mazda’s first crossover sport-utility vehicle (SUV), the CX-7.”

    It could be that the Grand Touring models are fitted with the Eagle RS-A M+S tires or four wheel drive models come with these. It is a misinformation to state that Mazda is “tricking/ripping off new CX-7 buyers.” Manufacturers can change specification on their vehicles at any time without prior notice. :)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Most car manufacturers use multiple tire vendors and Mazda has always used Bridgestone as a supplier on all their vehicles

    This hold's true for the Mazda3. The Mazda3 i uses Toyo Tires, and the Mazda3 s (with 17") uses Goodyear.

    Unixxus, very informative post, thanks.
  • syadastisyadasti Posts: 24
    Good tires can make a bigger difference than having AWD vs. FWD - Motortrend, Car and Driver, etc have all had various articles that prove this.

    Also racing slicks do wonders for performance cars...

    At every autoshow and review so far, Eagles have been used - it definately should be clearly noted in reviews about this performance difference if Mazda is only doing it for certain models. If they don't put Eagles on the upper trims it is definately a dirty deal :mad:

    It will cost about $800 for a new set of tires for the CX-7 :sick:
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Good tires can make a bigger difference than having AWD vs. FWD - Motortrend, Car and Driver, etc have all had various articles that prove this.

    I am not doubting that tires do help, because they do, all I am saying is that maybe you have over estimated how much this tire does for the CX-7, considering, there are no reviews of the CX-7 with the Bridgestone's on them. A bit premature in your thinking, possibly?

    We are getting our's in next week, hopefully, I'll drive both and let you knw if there is a difference.

    Maybe in rare situations, but, as a whole, AWD will provide better traction, especially in cornering. Unless, the tires on an AWD vehicle are garbage. It also depends on who makes the AWD system. I would have to read those articles to see the exact context of how they reaches their conclusions.

    Also racing slicks do wonders for performance cars...


    Thank you Captain Obvious. ;)
  • syadastisyadasti Posts: 24
    Motortrend March 2006, Page 71:

    "Which is better, one of our AWD competitors on all-season tires, or its front- or rear-drive counterparts on dedicated summer or winter rubber? Summer is a close call; but winter isn't. All-wheel drive has its benefits, but not the 28-30 percent offered by dedicated snow tires. And AWD won't help at all when it comes to stopping in snow. Of course, the best choice for winter conditions is all-wheel drive and snow tires."

    The 28-30% figure comes from comparison testing of all-season and winter tires on snow - snows are 28-30% better.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    OK, from what I got from that was snow tires are better to stop with. Everyone knows AWD does not help you stop in the snow. And, as I figured, that was an isolated test based on one driving factor. Which, goes back to my original statement on how AWD is better for cornering, and all out driving. These are the CX-7's selling points over it's competition.

    The CX-7 is a CUV with a "sports car" dynamic. Snow tires, or the AWD system in the snow is not the main feature of this vehicle. Mazda, so far, is pushing the "fun to drive" aspect. Have you seen a commercial, or ad, with this car in the snow? No, they have been concentrating on how it fit's Mazda's "zoom-zoom" spirit.

    Also, the CX-7's Goodyear tires are not snow tires. I fail to see your connection in that article by Motor Trend and how it apply's to the CX-7 tire issue.

    Do the other publishers you mentioned before refer to dry pavement?
  • syadastisyadasti Posts: 24
    It says they are 28-30% better on snow AND they help with stopping too. So AWD all-season vs. FWD w/snow tires FWD will have 28-30% better traction on snow and they will also stop better than AWD with all-season tires (obviously).

    A good set of tires significant an effect on wet or snow performance - up to 15% in the wet (as per Car and Driver) and up to 30% in the snow (as per Motortrend).

    Mazda AWD system is not very advanced as discussed earlier in this thread (see juice's post), so most likely having better tires (ie summer and winter tires vs. using all season) combined with the 220 lbs. weight savings would give you better handling and performance.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Ok, I got that. However, this car has not been tested in any conditions with the Bridgstone's on them, so, I think it is more then safe to say there is an unknown factor with them. Which constitutes a test before you can jump to conclusions and say that with Bridgestone's on the car, it is a deal breaker, and that Mazda is "misleading" their potential buyers. Afterall, it is independent publishers that are driving this car with the Goodyear's on them, and giving their own opinion and performance data (slalom speed etc.), not Mazda.

    However, if this were to be totally true, they why are some of the top-rated handling vehicles AWD? Those test's are situational, and are more like a lab experiment. They are author's that like cars. They are not mathmatitions, so, I wonder how they came up with a percentage advantage for handling. Is there a formula for that? Or more like a guess? Just because something is published in Motor Trend or C&D does not mean it's always 100% acurate. I have found to take what they say with a grain of salt.

    I am fully aware of what AWD system Mazda uses, Haldex,(juice informed me quite some time ago, lol) for their Active-Torque Split AWD. Similar to Volvo. Definitely not as advanced as Symmetrical, Quattro, or the new SH-AWD.
  • syadastisyadasti Posts: 24
    Misleading for sure - all showcars, reviewer cars, and the brochure photos had the Goodyear's.

    Take a close look at the Mazda brochure - all photos where you can read the label on the tires say "Goodyear Eagle"

    C&D and Motortrend tire tests were conducted in a objective scientific manner and there is no reason to consider bias. Regardless, tire performance can differ significantly even in the same class (ie summer, winter, all-season, etc...) You sound like a car salesman trying to sell Mazda's AWD system - I ain't buying it from the clueless :P

    Also 220 lbs. is not a chump change difference for handling.
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    Take a close look at the Mazda brochure - all photos where you can read the label on the tires say "Goodyear Eagle"

    Take a close look at the Mazda brochure - all photos where you can read the label on the tires say "Goodyear Eagle"

    Hold on a sec. All the pictures in the brouchure are of the upscale model. Someone got to it before me but car manufacturers differ in the tires they use by model and sometimes arbiutrarily so that there is not so much reliance on one supplier. It is a supplier power issue. If you invest a majority of your business with one supplier it increases your risks and it increases that suppliers ability to negotiate pricing.

    Mazda has not misled anyone. The test vehicles have not been the "sport" base model. The base model that will be used mostly for grocery shopping and the people that want the fun to drive factor but are looking really for an everyday SUV as well. For people like us, we need better tires. We'll all have to just wait and see how the tires fall out. It probably won't be the deal breaker people think. Upon hearing the new information it is alarming, which is why it is good that we all have this forum to hear the other side of things. :)
  • zoom49zoom49 Posts: 76
    It could be that the Grand Touring models are fitted with the Eagle RS-A M+S tires or four wheel drive models come with these
    The only one I saw at Mazda last weekend with Bridgestones
    was a GT AWD with vin # above 2000. All others had the Goodyears including one with an even higher vin number.
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    If it is arbitrarily done, you can ask the dealer to swap the tires out at no cost usually. This may turn into a non issue.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I don't accept that snow tires are 28-30% better, because they are only better IF they are mounted on the vehicle at that particular time, when a snow storm hits.

    You have to guess when the season begins and ends. Here in DC our last major storm was in March, and by then everyone had removed their snow tires. Having them in the shed stored away wouldn't do you any good.

    The rest of the time you are sacrificing 28-30% of traction in the dry, because the tires are soft and squirmy.

    So it's not quite the magic solution you imply it is.

    I have a set of snow tires and will use them, by the way, but I have a hydraulic jack and a torque wrench and can mount/dismount tires on a whim. How many people will do that? Most people make an appt in November and then another in late February.

    AWD is there all the time. So you get the advantage of AWD in the rain, snow, gravel, sand, slippery spots, you name it, year-round.

    Gimme both.

    -juice
  • syadastisyadasti Posts: 24
    Yes but Mazda's AWD system is not full-time AWD like a Subaru or the like. Its FWD most of the time.

    AWD cost extra and weighs more (handling and mileage will be off in dry conditions).

    And you mentioned snow tires were providing less traction because they were soft. You do realize racing tires are quicker wearing lower durometer tires? Having softer pliable tires gives more traction at the expense of wear.

    Also the tires are softer also due to lower temperatures in the winter time to compensate - rubber gets harder as the temperature drops. So you'd get better traction in the winter in the dry compared to all season tires which must work in a much broader temperature range.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    AWD costs more, but so does a full set of snow tires and rims. Over the life of the car, it might even end up adding up to the same amount or close.

    Weight, yes, but nowadays that's down to 150 lbs in many cases. Not sure about the Haldex Mazda uses.

    I realize the CX7's system is not full-time, but it acts when needed. Snow tires won't do squat if they're not mounted.

    Snow tires' treads are very soft but are nothing like racing slicks. The tread blocks have tiny siphons that easily give, it takes almost no pressure from my fingers to fold them over on the set that I have.

    You gain traction on ice and snow, but lose traction on dry pavement and rain, no doubt.

    I agree about the temps.

    -juice
  • russ_49russ_49 Posts: 54
    I have been waiting for mine to come in since I ordered it in December 05. I can tell you that the tires on the car, will be a "deal breaker" for me if it comes in with Bridgestones on it! I expect it to have the performance that has been advertised! I own an 02 Milli S, which came out of the factory with Dunlop's, when it was recently time to replace them, for me, there was no step down, and Dunlop's went on!

    Mine that is on order is a fully loaded GT with the NAV package, i'll be hard pressed to drop $32 large ones, if they cut this deal, and went with garbage tires! It will be the first thing that I look at when the dealer calls me to let me know that it is in. I just may ask when I receive that call if it does have the Bridgestone's on it, and if it does, he can keep it! :mad:
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    Easy russ, you may just want to ask the dealer to swap the tires as it seems that they are coming with both tires and it is not listed as a pay-for option in any brochures. You can't ditch the CX-7. I am looking forward to your review of it too much. :D
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    I expect it to have the performance that has been advertised!

    Where was it advertised that you get a specific brand tire? With the rare exception, I don't know of any model that specifically advertises a specific brand/type of tire.
  • syadastisyadasti Posts: 24
    It was advertised by the brochure photos, autoshows, and giving auto reviewers what was claimed was a production car. If you swap to cheaper tires, the performance isn't as advertised.

    If he wanted a cost cutting mudane car, he'd get a Ford or Chevy :P
  • richmlrichml Posts: 156
    It is a production car with those tires.

    What vehicles come in every configuration with exactly the same tires?
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    Sounds to me like you made some assumptions...I'm a dealer and don't have any idea what brand tires are coming on the vehicle. I asked the factory rep and they didn't know either... I've got the brochure in front of me...the only pic that I can make out the tire brand is on the back inside cover and they look like Good Year's. It's also a Grand Touring model. Remember, it is very common for different trim levels to have different brand/model tires.
  • syadastisyadasti Posts: 24
    Don't play dumb.

    Brochure - all pages with parked CX7's you can make out the tires:

    pg. 5 - red CX7 - you can see Eagle RS A on the rear tire

    Silver CX7 w/the 4-way split page - rear tire can see RS A and Goodyear and the front tire you can see Goodyear Eagle RS A

    Red CX7 on last page w/accessories - can see Eagle RS on both front and rear tires.

    All autoshows, could see all the tires and they were Goodyear Eagle. Various reviews mentioned the tire specifically and performance was benchmarked in the reviews with what was supposed to be a production spec'd car.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    All true, however, it's common knowledge that the press often drive PRE-production cars, not production cars.

    The brochure is probably a teaser (is it?), I'm sure they'll create a new one for dealers to pass out. Check to see if it has any disclaimers about pre-production, I'd be surprised if it doesn't.

    A-HA! Mine does!

    It says:

    PRODUCT CHANGES AND OPTIONS AVAILABILITY.
    Following publication of this brochure, certain changes in standard equipment, options, prices and the like, ...


    Voila. Read the fine print. Actually it's not even fine print, it's full size. A lawsuit would only be tossed.

    -juice
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    first of all I'm not playing dumb so you need to keep your arrogant know it all attitude in check. I don't know a thing about tires and don't pretend to. I also said that in the pic I could see the tires were good years....which they are....

    The most spcific thing about tires I could find...

    P235/60 R18 H-rated all seson tires

    No mention of brands...as usual.
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