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Jeep Liberty CRD Diesel Real World MPG

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  • rjsjrjsj Posts: 5
    Hi beetlemn73:

    Jettas are fantastic for mileage. Much, MUCH better for mileage than any Jeep will ever be, even if hydrogen powered. BUT, remember, a Jetta can NOT go where the Jeep can go and when you want to get away from everything around you, the Jeep can really make it all happen.

    So with that in mind, your mileage (make sure your odometer is correct) should improve as it ages, starting at about 18-23 rural town driving and 25-28 hi-way with cruise control (level) at about 55-65. After about 10,000 miles you should notice about 30 on the hi-way at the same speed on level roads. City never seems to improve more than 1 or 2 MPGs, even with age. Diesels are not running at their best in the city. Most gas powered Libby's are averaging about 13-15 town and 19 - 23 hi-way. The CRD should do about 6-8 MPG better across the board, so figure about 120 - 200 more miles per tank.

    Driving habits are what kills many people's mileage thoughts. Many drive a diesel like a gas vehicle. They are different animals, diesels responding best when you re-learn how to drive using the power / torque curve. If you learn to keep your RPMs in the 1700 - 2000 range most of the time,you will get the best mileage. But again, if all you want is mileage, then best to get another TDI. I am sure once you see what the Libby can do in the great outdoors, even 5-8 mpg over the gas versions is a big difference. Plus the low end torque is amazing when off roading, will help you from getting stuck in the slimy stuff, where gasers will often sit. (idling diesels in gear will often get you out, gas jeeps will often just spin the tires. I have been stuck many times with my Grand Cherokee and my friends gas Libby, where the diesel will consistently idle out of the same mess).

    I strongly agree with Farout about the tires. The Silent Armor will reduce the MPG slightly ( .2 - 1.0 % on average), but is well worth it for the stability and traction they provide. They are an excellent tire for the Libby.

    Additives will help the rail system. The CRD rail system is well designed and works well, but the fuel in many areas is very fouled or "dirty" with contaminates. This is why I endorse using a good additive such as Stanadyne, as I have personally seen the difference mechanicaly during tear downs. Trucks using Stanadyne I have found were some of the cleanest tear downs I have ever done. Using it really does help reduce wear and tear. Power Service also helps some, but many additives do not. If you get a mileage increase, that's great, if not it is still good P/M.
    The owners manual does not endorse, because the rail system itself does not need additives, but the poor fuel quality in the US makes some additives very worthwhile.

    BUT in your case.. I would not run an additive for about 3500-5000 miles, as your rail system needs to break in. It needs some wear to do this. So I would recommend not using any more until break in. Also, do not use any oil additives until well over 25,000 miles. B-5 is great, even B-10 would probably be OK, but nothing at this time over that. I am hearing about some future conversions that may enable higher Bio levels, but won't happen in the near future.

    Also, during the break in period, don't try to get the best MPG. Diesel break in periods do best when constantly changing driving speeds and patterns. You want the rings and cylinders to properly "seat". Constant speeds will not seat properly. Best to fluctuate speeds from 40 - 70 as well as loads. Also do occasional wide open runs from near stop to about 50 mph between about 3,500 and 5000 miles. This is also a perfect time to re-learn using the curves. Drive normally after about 6,500 miles or the first oil change. Won't give the best MPG, but will break in better, and thus will be faster in getting good MPGs latter.

    I hope you enjoy your new go anywhere CRD, and you get great MPG to boot. But remember, it is a jeep first. I hope this helps some and answers some of your future questions you may have. YES, I need to learn to write less! Oh well, I love Jeeps, the places they can go and the people who are attracted to Jeeps!
  • WOW, thanks for all the response. I've been away and was suprised by the response. I have 950 miles on it and I just LOVE my CRD. I know diesel quality is soso, so I figured an additive would improve marginal fuel. I have changed to just using Amsoil Cetane with RedLine Diesel catalyst. But my main goal now is to stock some B100 and use 1 gal per tank to get a B5. They say it mixes VERY well as a splash additive. MPG has been 24 over all. Have not been on a long enough trip to see HWY mpg. I know abt the ST tires being of the bottom of the barrel. What can you do ? I'm currently am upgrading the radio to an RB1 and also going to add the overhead console. Due in this week. I also have used a GPS to check MPH/odometer and sure enough, it comes out wrong. The Jeep shows abt 2.5MPH faster than I'm going @ 60 and abt 6 miles too low for every 100. So for those that show low MPG, need to verify against a GPS.
    Thanks for all the info. I currently pay abt 2.55/gal here in CT for diesel.

    Happy Jeeping :)
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    beetlemn73: Just some personal advice, you do with it as you like. Stay away from storing Bio fuel. It does not stay fresh very long especially B-100. Make it simple, just buy B-5. Rarely if ever will you be exactally 20 gallons empty. Storing just isn't worth the hassle.
    You life is worth more than radio equipment. Dump the St tries before they dump you.
    Enjoy your Jeep.

    Farout
  • I use B99 in my Liberty CRD and have a tank at home so I can pump my own. According to Seattle Biodiesel, which is a quality supplier (I'm a customer, not an owner or employee), BioD will store up to six months easily, and probably longer. They say they intentionally error on the side of caution. I plan refills of my storage tank to last no more than four months, giving a large safety margin.

    An earlier message on this forum directed us to a position paper signed by auto manufacturers and hardware suppliers. They say not to use anything over B5.

    My personal feeling is that the manufacturers are doing what large bureaucracies do best. They are protecting themselves by being overly conservative. That's probably not a bad idea now, while biodiesel is being offered by producers who employ varying quality standards.

    Because I'm confident in Seattle biodiesel, I'll continue to run on B99. The Jeep loves it and so do I.

    On a trip down I-5 last week -- more than 700 miles from northern Washington into California -- I averaged 31.8 miles per gallon. Most of the time I ran between 70 and 75 mph without air conditioning. For about an hour I used the air, and for about 50 miles I slowed to 60 mph, just to improve an already spectacular mileage figure. That's better than normal.

    The first part of the trip was on B99. The balance on B25.

    Normal mileage on biodiesel and dino is about the same, which is a surprise to me. I expected biodiesel to cost me mileage, but that hasn't been the case. Perhaps its because Seattle Biodiesel is doing a good job.

    We have nearly 20,000 miles on the 2005 CRD and have averaged about 22 in town and 26 on the highway. We also have a Jetta TDI that runs B99 and seem to love it as well as the Jeep does.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    lyfordolypen: Bacteria forms very rapidly in diesel fuel, but in Bio its grows even better. There is a risk in using Bio fuel and I am not willing to take that risk. There is a wide consistancy in quality and BTU's of Bio fuels. There would be little reason to question B-5 or perhaps B-10.
    One fact that can't ignored is a fuel pump is about $2500. If it goes out because of Bio fuel, then down goes the savings. I doubt any Bio maker would help pay for your any danage that Bio fuel would cause.
    I have 22,300 miles on our CRD and we have yet to take it on a trip, but we have gotten as high as 28 mpg and local driving is 22mpg. So it sounds like both CRD's are doing about the same.
    One question I do have is Bio fuel does gel up at 20 F. How are you dealing with that in Seattle?

    Farout
  • Farout:

    Are your Silent Armor Tires Forteras or Wranglers? The Fortera appears to be a highway tire, and the Wrangler has a more aggressive tread pattern. Would there be an appreciable fuel economy difference between the two designs?
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    bmartinpe: Here is your answer...Yes. On the 05 Liberty CRD we have the Good Year Wrangler Silent Armor 245 70 16 106T tires. On the 06 we have the Good Year Fortera 245 70 16 106T tires. The reason for the two tires is we drive the 05 CRD on a gravel, dirt, mud, rock roads going in and out of the road to our mini ranch. Our daughter spends 5 days a week away from our home and 2 days here with us. We need the type of tred on the Good Year Wrangler Silent Armor tires. The Fortera tires are a little more smoother and just a little bit quieter. We are very pleased with both sets of tires. The Wrangler Silent Armor have a 50,000 mile life expectancy and the Fortera has a 70,000 mile expectancy. These are top of the line tires as reported by several reporting groups. They are a little pricey, but I consider it has the value to merit cost.
    We have 20,000 miles on the Wranglers and 400 miles on the Fortera tires.
    These are the only Good Year tires I have ever bought, usually I dump the OE tires right away. I never saw a Good Year tire worth buying before these came out. I have most generally bought Cooper Discover tires, but they would be shot in 18,000 miles, but did very well on our road.
    I hope this helps, because the ST tires are so flimsy, they are a flat just looking to run over a garden snail to blow it apart.

    Farout
  • Here is my mileage. Overall is 24.6 mpg. The numbers below were calculated directly from miles driven and gallons needed to fill up.
    image
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,109
    I am curious. What happened about 8,000 miles ago? Your mileage seems to have undergone a significant increase in efficiency about that time.

    tidester, host
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    tideseter: The increase in mpg is very easily explained. The Service manager showed patenguy that the hand lever in the center of between both front seats, was not what you pull up to put the car in 4 wheel drive. After learning he had driven 8,000 miles with the park brake on, his miles per gallon went way up.

    Farout
  • For the past year I have been using Stanadyne Performance Formula. Factor in the additive and the engine is just now breaking in, and that may explain the mpg increase. I use B20 90% of the time. I have also learned to be easy on the pedal, and that has a major contribution to mileage.

    It is a great vehicle. It just takes time for the engine to fully break in and reach its maximum mpg.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,109
    The increase in mpg is very easily explained.

    My theory was that the driving was all down hill after the first 8,000 mi. :shades:

    tidester, host
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    Patentguy,

    I have charted my MPG since new and my cumulative mileage is now 24.53 MPG @ 28k miles. Oil consumption went down dramatically at around 16k miles. Except for 3 or 4 tanks I use no additives. I have picked up a little less than 1 MPG since new. There are stretches on my chart that look a little like your stretch of increased mileage that in my case was related to a much higher proportion of highway driving. My driving tends to be either-or rather than mixed.

    The diesel pedal on the CRD is short travel relative to all other vehicles I have owned requiring more precise control and discipline to get really good mileage.
  • Where does your oil-level stabilize on the dipstick? I still have not figured out where the "real" full mark is.
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    After reading a number of posts about inaccurate CRD dipsticks I measured the required amount of oil as accurately as I could at the last oil change. After driving and sitting overnight, I checked the oil level and it was about 1/16 inch below the full mark. After 4K miles of driving mostly highway the oil level is now down about 1/8 inch.
  • Just figured my overall average mpg and came up with 23.4. High was 30.87 :D ">low was 18.37. High came with just me in the Jeep travelling from Flagstaff, AZ to Montrose, CO staying at 70 mph or less, low came driving from Phx, AZ to Flagstaff, AZ with 2 adults, 2 kids, 2 dogs, 2 cats, a cargo pod on top and a heavy hitch bike rack with three bikes attached at speeds in excess of 70 mph. :cry:

    Two tanks of ULSD and no significant fuel economy, same noise, seems like less smoke, more driveline shimmy while shifting between overdrive gears after hard acceleration. I tried to post a log and chart but don't have a url to first ul the photos to.

    Gary
  • I think you're right. My crd has been all downhill from 9000 miles when my first idiot light came on. MPG has been 17mpg since the egr replacement at 16000 miles. Now it doesn't top 17 mpg which I expect will drop to 12 mpg when I put it into 4wd for the rest of the winter until I dump the sucking lemon. Just got it back from the ball joint replacement... now it wanders in its' lane. Mentioned the complete loss of passing performance and gas milage so they reflashed the stupid computer. No difference in performance except that it goes to redline for everything now; still passes like a headon; and now it waves the tachometer all over the gauge meaninglessly. Like I said... all downhill.

    Turblediesel

    PS Gosh... when the meaningless warrenty ends I can pay big money for them to screw up my car even more.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    turbelsiesel: I had a long post I could refer you to, but because the Host's changed the forums, I will just post the basics. When they changed the EGR, they DID NOT change the PCM, right? The EGR fails for a reason. They can and have changed as many as 6 EGR's on one person in this forum! Until the PCM is changed this EGR problem is going to stay with ya. The service Tec at Yark Jeep in Toledo, Ohio, his name is DAN, has been the top CRD service Tec and even was going between the Jeep Liberty Plant across the street. He can verify that DCX does say to change out the PCM when changing the EGR. Hope this helps end the work of a ignorant Tec, that has caused this for you.

    Farout
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,252
    Your posts are still in the archives and you can still link to they. I'm guessing this is the one you mean?

    farout, "Jeep Liberty Diesel" #7293, 8 Aug 2006 1:53 pm

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • vacrdvacrd Posts: 4
    I did some driving over the holiday from northern Virginia to Dayton Ohio. Averaged 28 MPG. Kept RPM at or below 2,000 RPM and traveled between 62 to 70 MPH. Drive included hills and flat areas. Filled up at several different stations. Brand of Diesel didn't seem to matter. Diesel was 50 cents per gallon more expensive than gas that whole trip. Wonder if it will ever come down again.

    My CRD now has 6,000 miles on it. Finally figured out that there was a 5th gear and if you can travel in it you will get good mileage. If I travel in fourth gear (50 to 55 mph) I never get better than 22 MPG. I do a lot of highway driving and I now get into 5th gear as quick as I can and stay there.
  • Notice most of my stations here in Alabama have the low sulfer 500ppm. a Couple of them have the ultra low sulfer 15 ppm posted on the gas pumps. On your trip did you get to run the low sulfer or able to compare the two?
  • vacrdvacrd Posts: 4
    Had one tank of each. Didn't notice any difference.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    vacrd: Have your PCM re-flashed and you should be in 5th OD at 52 mpf. This was what happened to our CRD.

    Farout
  • farout, what is your rpm in 5th at this speed?
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,350
    farout, on mine this corresponds to 4th gear, ~1800 rpm and converter locked. To be in 5th gear at 52 mph the engine would be at 1600 rpm. It takes about 5 long seconds driving at a steady 50 mph for the converter to lock in 4th. I then have to let go the gas pedal if I need a fast acceleration otherwise it behaves like a manual shifter :cry:
  • vacrdvacrd Posts: 4
    Farout

    With the re-flash - when do you shift into 4th ?

    and did you notice better MPG?

    vacrd
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    dirtmover: My rpm's are 1600 at about 52 or 53 mph.

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    bmartinpe: I have the Forteras on the 06 3.7 Liberty and the Wrangler Silent Armor on the 05 CRD Liberty. Both provide a good quiet ride. The Forteras are not as aggressive but seem to provide pretty good traction in snow. Right now we have 12", so I can say this being positive. I like the Silent Armor Wrangler tires better.

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    I am not sure I really have only been concerned about 5th. I will try to notice and get back to you.

    Farout
  • Before my 2006 Jeep Diesel went in for the Body Conrol Module Recall, my Jeep was making 42 mpg. After the recall, it dropped down to 19 city and 17 highway. I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem or not. My window sticker says it should make 22 city and 26 hwy but has been known to make high 30's. For the fact that I was making 42 before this, it sounds fishy to me.
    Thank You,
    Megano1
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