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Comments
Have you owned a diesel before? If not, you may have to adapt your driving style considerably to get high fuel economy. Warm-ups should be 2 to 5 minutes, max. After a couple of minutes to take the chill off the engine begin driving immediately and easily to warm the engine. The CRD engine will drag the Liberty around with almost no throttle. And, the throttle is relatively short travel and somewhat sensitive. If you take a deep quick stab at the throttle the turbo will effectively turn the 2.8L engine into a 6L engine and burn a lot more fuel than you need to burn. For good fuel economy it is best to keep the RPMs below 2,200.
Keep in mind that for any given speed or load there is an optimal fuel flow, turbo speed and EGR flow and it takes time for these systems to reach equilibrium. If you are moving the pedal around quickly and frequently these systems are never in equilibrium. Slow deliberate movements of the pedal are best. There is nothing wrong with turning the overdrive (button) off and winding up 3,200 RPM up an on ramp when you need acceleration. My Japanese 4cy gasser and the CRD both get 29 MPH on the highway. However, into a strong head wind the gasser will drop all the way down to 19.5 MPG while the diesel will only drop to 24.5 MPH into the same head wind. The diesel gets more efficient under load than the gasser. Happy dieseling.
Thank you !
http//richard.fortin.free.fr/KJ_diesel/Common_Position_Paper_FIE_Producer_0904.p- - df
NOTE: I can't get the pdf on the end to take. it is pdf not p-df.
After reading these pages if you feel the risk is just a bunch of junk then at least you have made the choice as a informed person, not by someone telling you what they think.
farout
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
B2, B5, B20 are the most common biodiesel blends around. I have been using B5-B20 on my CRD and have had no problems.
The bodywork will cost me much less than the price I would have to pay to clean a piece of land. At least, I use this truck!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Thanks for the great info. I have just purchased an 06' Liberty CRD with 26k miles. In reading the postings I have an issue that I have not yet seen addressed. I drive 1 1/2 hours to work on x-way. After about an hour when coming down to slower speeds, (70 mph to 50 mph), the engine feels like it is "missing", and chugs pretty hard. This will seem to happen always after about an hour of driving. I hesitate to take it into a dealer after the horror stories I have read and it gets decent mileage so am concerned the dealer will goof it up. Any idea what could be causing, EGR???
Now, this differential is 12%. In other words, I actually travel 120 km in an hour instead of 107 as my speedometer said. And since my odometer STILL reads 12% LESS, that can only mean one thing. I'm getting approx. 12% better fuel mileage than any of my calculations!
So, for what it's worth, I can tell you that I have recorded every drop of diesel fuel, incl. B20 that I have put in the tank since May 26, 2006 when I took delivery until the last fill up on Oct. 20 2007. Of course I used the odometer readings to enter into K-Jon's Vehicle Record System. This is primarily city driving with a few trips, and pulling a 20' trailer on occasion. All this over 28,000 km, or, approx. 17,400 miles.
The AVERAGE KPL was 7.1 or, 20.1 mpg CDN / 16.7 mpg US. Now add 12 % to those figures and we get 22.5 mpg CDN & 18.7 mpg US.
The average KPL or MPG over 1 & half years may be too much of a stretch because so many factors entered into the equation that have a bearing on 'good' and/or 'bad' fuel consumption. The fact remains, that in this case with a speedometer/odometer error of approx. 12%, the fuel mileage looks quite a bit better. On the highway I can get 35 mpg CDN or 29.1 mpg US.
Nescosmo...
The fuel tank is further down towards the ground so any leak in that region will cause the incoming line to cavitate and the engine to stop. The common rail system recirculates the unused fuel to get rid of trapped air bubbles.
I haven't had this kind of trouble in more than 25 years of happy dieseling.
Need a little help I purchased a 05 Jeep Liberty CRD about 1 ½ months ago. I had traded off my pick up to get something that got better MPG but still could pull a boat and a small trailer. So, to make a long story short. My jeep is getting about 13.5 MPG city driving and on a 425 mile trip all interstate tip going 68-70 MPH I got 17.23 on first tank and 17.56 on the other. Took it into the shop they cannot find anything wrong with it . My ford f150 got just as good as MPG and if I had known that the jeep got such poor MPG, I would have just kept my tuck. Any help would be Greatly appreciated..
Thanks,
Ramon
Even if you never detached and lived in your trailer during winter you should get better mileage than 13.5 mpg. Could you try to contact the previous owner? He knows why he didn't keep it.
My experience is that the less power provided by the engine corresponds to the worst mileage condition; I would look at the turbo boost and common rail pressure sensors to start.
I read a few posts on the EGR valve could this be some of the problem? If the EGR valve is bad will this show up on the computer? Do you know if putting a SEGR kit in will this void the warrenty and will this help MPG? What is there anything else I can do?
Thanks again,
Ramon
I believe the SEGR kit should give you a better truck for the following:
- automatic shifting without hesitation,
- less nerve irritation due to visual pollution (black smoke),
- improved mileage in city traffic,
- fewer conflicts with dealers (they will call you).
On the other hand, if you remain in 5th gear at the lowest achievable speed, you need to be aware of the risk of having premature wear of the torque converter.
With my engine, mileage is strongly dependent on temperature. I recorded all weather and traffic conditions during the first year I had it. All figures apply after five years but with a greater tendency to doubt on even fuel quality :sick:
By the way, we have no substitution fuel yet. Perhaps oat, sweat and manure will reappear making unique photographic opportunities :shades:
Obviously the jeep is not stock, there have been major modifications made to the fuel system and to other systems.
My jeep has a custom built 15/5 gallon split tank replacing the stock, (5 for startup and shutdown diesel and 15 for vegetable oil). The system is equipped with a heating system which keep the fuel at around 160-170 degrees farenheit.
The vehicle is equipped with a Tuner (specifically setup to match well with the burning characteristics of vegetable oil) as well as aftermarket reusable air filter and exhaust. I have driven with and without the tuner and have noticed a big difference, Stock the vehicle tends to smoke at idle and also when I ask for a lot from it in a hurry, such as panic situations on the freeway (plume of black smoke), stock my highway mileage was 29-30 and city fell to 22, Yikes!! With the programer on I get a few extra mpg as well as a HP boost up to 185 and considerably more torq and no smoking. I went ahead and had the dealer do the F37 or whatever upgrade that was, I took off the tuner before I went in, OH MY GOD, I couldn't wait to get home and plug it back in, the upgrade made the car positively anemic, plugging the tuner back in fixed that though.
Soooo... When I first bought the vehicle I wasn't set up for collecting and filtering waste vegetable oil and I probably spent the first 5 months of ownership running on regular dino diesel in both tanks. (Exxon, Shell) What I found to be interesting was that I got significantly better mileage running on the heated tank, (with regular dino diesel as well as waste vegetable oil). My real world averages run about 26 in stop and go urban and between 30-35 on the highway, almost never above 65 mph. The highest I've seen recorded on my liberty was 36.2 and that was when my mom drove it 450 miles for me on a moving trip, (It was her first time driving it too, she didn't want to give it back and tried to trade me for the Ford F-250 Powerstroke Diesel I had just bought for her)
As far as driving style, well, I am as mpg conscious as one can get, my first three vehicles were GM Suburban, GM Jimmy, Chevy Tahoe, 88, 83, 96 respectively. I almost never got better than 13 mpg on any of them and when you are young and cash is scarce eeking out as many miles per gallon is a priority.
I have had few problems with the vehicle, I had to get towed (own stupidity) for driving the very twisty turny roads of Napa County with less than 1/4 of a tank of fuel, sucked up air and air locked it in a single lane going uphill with traffic coming from both directions, totally panicked and forgot about re-priming it. The dealership had no clue what was wrong, they didn't sell the CRD in California so they had never worked on one before, it finally occured to me what had happened and I went up and primed the system and it started right up.
I did have all the recalls done, when they went to replace the torque converter it was fused in the transmission and they had to replace the whole tranny.
All in All I think the modifcations are probably to blame for my higher than average mpg. My trip computer registers the mileage very accurately, within .1 mpg (accounting for 3 mph discrepancy between the speedo and several gps readings). Also, the vehicle really performs better running on veggie oil than it does on Veggie, not sure why exactly, but my Ford F250 is the same way, loves Veggie way more than Dino. I've never run Biodiesel in either and don't intend to, not a fan in any way shape or form. Any product that can degrease my kitchen stove so well should not be going into my vehicle IMHO, and methanol and lye (in any quantity) are not something I like having in my fuel tank.
My Jeep spent its first 8 months in my stewardship in N. California, nice and warm, now that I am back in my native Alaska I have noticed a small drop in mileage, maybe not due to the cold though, our speed limit on our highways is 50 mph and our state troopers and forest service cops are serious about it. Seems very difficult to get my jeep into 5th, probably not healthy for the torque converter anyway when I am dropping down to 45mph around corners.
All in All I don't feel like I could find anything better than the Liberty CRD that satisfies my MPG requirments along with my 4x4 cold weather Alaskan enviorment necessities.
On a separate and unrealated note... Does anyone know if the CRD are still being sold overseas? I just got back from Ireland and England and saw Liberty CRDs (labeled as Cherokees) absolutely everywhere. Would be good to know as far as part availability is concerned.
Since my last post I ran into another forum dedicated to the diesel liberties. There is a fix for these EGR problems, read about it here. http://www.lostkjs.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=23033
I bought one of the kits and am in the process of putting it together, but from what I have read this is a total fix.
Best
Off to the LOST KJs site!
Also, I had a problem with windows, had all four replaced.
Now, it seems to be running great. I'm getting 25 mpg average on highway, plus I've got a bit of a leadfoot. I don't know how to tell if the EGR valve is bad. So, I thought I'd write. Sometimes when I come off of the highway, it will act like no fuel is in the engine or the mixture is bad and I lose a bit of power, almost like it's ready to back fire, but doesn't do it. If I give it a bit of gas, then it seems to return to normal.
I just wanted to add my 2 cents on MPG data and calculation.
You travel a great distance just to burn through a tank of fuel. Maybe 400 miles? The equation in your CRD's computer, one way or another will be based of tire diameter. If you think about how many times that tire turns in 400 miles, you can see how even a small error in tire diameter can effect how far your CRD thinks it has traveled.
I would use the roll-out method. With the wheels on the CRD, roll it forward and measure the distance traveled for exactly one revolution of the wheel. Use a simple formlula to solve for tire diameter then convert your number to whatever flavor a CRD computer wants to see. My Hypertech programmer asks for tire diameter in inches. It's simple.
Roll-out is a superb method for the given situation. If you have worn down tires, your tire size according to your side wall is no longer accurate. Use a roll-out and it will tell you the diameter of your bald tires or brand new tires. It doesn't matter.
Double check that with GPS. But don't stop there...
Triple check it with one of these handy 1-2-3-4-5 mile checks on the interstate. Do you guys have those? Here in the pacific northwest we have them. I think they are fascinating. No matter what car I'm driving in, I'll come up on an I-5 mileage check and I'll zero my trip odometer right when it starts. 5 miles later I look and I'll be damned if not every time do I end up with 4.9 or 5.1 or something. It's never 5.0, right lol? But what I look for is to see if it's in the same positive/negative direction that the GPS is suggesting of my cars speedometer. And it always is
Also don't forget the inherrent inaccuracy of measuring translational distance traveled by revolutions of a wheel?! Things slip. Especially tires! And significantly when it comes to surfaces any other than warm tarmac. As you can imagine, your computer sees your wheel spinning more, which thinks you've traveled farther, so what does that mean? You'll get inflated MPG numbers when driving on snow and forest roads.
Also, consider the inaccuracy of exactly how full your tank was when you started measuring and after. Even if you controlled it (you are the filler) and you tried to fill it the same everytime, you know it's impossible to fill it the same everytime, so that your fuel amount for the distance traveled is accurate. Even the reporting device. They usually only report to 2 or 3 decimal places on the receipt. To minimize this error, you would sum up many tanks of fuel over many miles traveled.
Lastly, the fuel itself. Same brand? Same pump? Biodiesel? How much? This is also a variable and will affect combustion efficiency and BTU per unit.
Did you drive the same drive, on the same fuel, from the same station, in the same conditions on this tank as you did the last. You can minimize the bias by collecting and summing a volume of data and then calculating. In other words, tank-to-tank is nice but look at these contributors high-low tanks records. Some are improving 40 or 50% from worst tank to best tank. That's crazy.
It would be fascinating to do a proper error analysis such that you could say... "My 2005 CRD gets 24.1 MPG +/- 1.8 MPG".
If you keep a spreadsheet, don't forget to track fuel price. It's fun (sometimes) to watch what that has done to you over the last several years. It's also interesting to see what really makes a difference on your MPG numbers (if you are charting). I switched jobs once going from a 70 mile roundtrip highway commute to a 34 mile roundtrip city commute. In my Jetta TDI I dropped from steady 42MPG to steady 37MPG. I'm convinced it was the job change (my commute is over 90% of my driving).
And how large would that be? One full revolution of slipping per mile driven won't even get you up to two tenths of a percent error in your distance measurement. And that is assuming the slippage is all in one direction.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Consider 3% as a conservative number. I'm staying in 4WD Full Time to reduce this value and I'm not regretting my choice
I suppose that's possible if ALL your turns are in the same direction (i.e. right vs. left). :P
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Just look how tires tend to wear; wear is an indicator of unmatched rotation versus trajectory
Are there any tricks or suggestions on improving city mileage?
I bought my wife an 05 Limited which she dearly loves we have found that fuel choice makes a difference. With the cheaper brands like Citco our mileage drops and by using better fuels Like Shell the 1 to 3 cents more per gallon pays off. Other friends have tried this with their diesel's and are now using brand name fuels too.
65% highway 35% city 24 mpg to 27 mpg all highway up to 31.4. Pulling our Layton 19LT Camping Trailer 17 to 22 mpg We love our little Jeep.
I was intrigued upon reading your most recent post about your superbly-efficient Liberty CRD. How about a status update? I'd like to try something similar to that, so if you have any pointers I'm open to suggestions!
Best of luck in our great nations biggest state!
-Gerhardt
Additionally: My Screen name refers to the 1st Diesel engine, shown at the worlds fair. It ran on peanut oil, and the smell confused patrons, believing that they'd entered the food court when happening upon his invention!
I'd be happy to give you a status update, I was actually just heading outside to change the racor filter on my veggie tank.
I've had the jeep for over 3 years now and still couldn't be happier with it. It's had a few bumper scrapes, and a broken rim and bushing after an incident with a rock along the side of the road, but I still only have 27,000 miles on it. (about to put 7,000 on it over the next 4 months with a new job)
The guys over at the LOST Jeep forums have a lot of information about modding and maintaining the diesel liberties. I've found that an invaluable website.
I've added a SEGR, which is a small computer that keeps the EGR valve Open, bumps up the horse power, but more importantly keeps the EGR valve from failing and getting stuck in the closed position, a common problem on these liberties. You can get the benefit of this by unplugging the MAF sensor on the Airbox, but you will have an engine light on all the time.
I've also built an installed a catchment system that pulls oil vapor out of the CCV airstream and condenses it to be drained later, just a preventative measure.
About the time I destroyed my rim, I realized my stock tires were completely shot at 25,000 miles. I did a lot of shopping and picked out 10-Ply Toyo Open Country A/T tires which should hold up better to our shot rock roads, although I don't take the jeep on them hardly at all. I noticed a drop in mileage right away, from 29-30 on our twisty hilly 50MPH highway, down to 26. But now that I have 1,000 miles on them I'm back up to 30-31... an improvement? I was expecting a mileage decrease with the new tires, but so far the opposite seems to be true.
Still love the veggie system, the only bad thing is that the standard fuel port under the gas gap door was replaced with two smaller ones, one for each tank, and they are so small that filling up with diesel at the pump is almost impossible without spilling some... Drives me nuts! The solution seems to be to not put the pump all the way in and squeeze the handle gently, but it is a real pain. There has to be a better way!
I can't think of too much else, if you have any specific questions I would be happy to answer them.
Too bad about the spillage, though. Have you tried using a nozzle from a gas can as a funnel, to ensure against spilled fuel?
I looked under and it looks like there is a one way vent on a tube but the hole is very tiny.
Any one had this problem ??? Thanks for any help. ed
Had an old situation repeat the other day. When I accelerated hard starting off into traffic the engine started running like it was only firing on 1 cylinder lost power and at idle was shaking the entire car. Reving over 1,000 rpm and smoothed out but back at idle same rough run. Turned off ignition for 15 minutes and back to normal. Last time that happend I replaced the Mass Air flow sensor on the intake. Now I wonder if that was really the problem since I have not had the problem in six months. Still have a check engine light now but my mechanic says he does not have a clue and to go exploring would require a full day. Thinks it has something to do with the air intake though.
What is the code that your check engine light is throwing? P101?