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Is the Saturn Vue Green Line a Turning Point for Hybrids?

24

Comments

  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Hold on Gary - you must be MISREADING the numbers.

    The average price of a new car, per the Comerica study, is right around $27,900.

    My TCH sticker price which is what I paid was $26,759.

    So the TCH is BELOW the national USA average. Get that? Got that? Good !!!!

    My HCH was indeed "used" but it had only 4822 miles on it and had been sold as NEW only THREE MONTHS EARLIER. So that is as close to a NEW car as you can get !!! I paid about $1800 less thana new one.

    So even if it had been NEW at $21,500, then my two hybrids averaged

    $24,129

    That is $3770 below the national average. Get that? Got that? Good !!!

    I would rather have GM sell the Vue at $23,500 and have the real-time mileage gauge and the tank computer for helping the drivers use the technology to the best advantage. That's all I said. It would not have cost them much at all to add that feature.
  • jonnycat26jonnycat26 Posts: 101

    The average price of a new car, per the Comerica study, is right around $27,900.


    The average price is not what typical buyer spends... I can average a bunch of Audis and a Cobalt together and skew the numbers upwards, but more cobalts are going to be sold than Audis.

    The typical price that a new buyer spends on a car is in the low 20s last I read.

    Also the Vue does have a real time mileage gauge in the trip computer, and it also has a battery meter, and all the gadgets. It doesn't have touchscreen, which at least in my Prius, is an ergonomic disaster.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Actually, jonnycat26, the Vue DOES NOT HAVE that mileage gauge, like I said earlier. Here is from a review"

    Measuring fuel savings
    Perhaps a more niggling issue for buyers of the Vue Green Line is the fact this SUV doesn't calculate the kind of mileage it's getting. Because the Vue's electronics are old, they do not gather data that would tell a driver if he or she got 25 mpg or 27 mpg or 30 mpg on a trip, according to Larry Nitz, executive director of GM's global hybrid powertrains.

    An aftermarket chip or sensor that could tap the vehicle's "communications bus," as Nitz put it, wouldn't get any mileage info, either. This leaves a busy driver to trust that she is getting the fuel savings promised.

    Note there is a green "Eco" light that comes on in the dashboard to tell a driver if she is, at that moment, getting better than the official fuel economy rating. But this light operates by reacting to such things as when a driver is coasting and letting up on the gas pedal. It is not tied to any real-time calculating.

    The solution for buyers is to manually calculate their miles-per-gallon - a cumbersome and disappointing development in this day when even many non-hybrid cars have electronics that automatically calculate and report fuel mileage.


    From this page:

    http://www.roadandtravel.com/roadtests/reviews/2006roadtests/newcarreviews/satur- nvuegreenline3.htm

    So that is what I'm complaining about. It's a step backward....as a two-time hybrid owner, I do know how valuable REAL-TIME MPG DATA is to achieving the absolute best MPG from a vehicle.

    This is a SAD development.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    jonnycat26 said: "The typical price that a new buyer spends on a car is in the low 20s last I read. "

    That's incorrect. I have kept track of this since July 2004, and every news story or study I can find since that time puts the "average price of a new car in the USA" to around the high $27,000s.

    If you can find something that shows different data, please post it - I'd like to see it. Thanks.
  • jonnycat26jonnycat26 Posts: 101


    So that is what I'm complaining about. It's a step backward....as a two-time hybrid owner, I do know how valuable REAL-TIME MPG DATA is to achieving the absolute best MPG from a vehicle.


    And I'm telling you, I've been in a vue (non hybrid obviously) and there is a trip computer that calculates your MPG. It isn't the same as the Prius, but the functionality is there!
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,690
    So the TCH is BELOW the national USA average. Get that? Got that? Good !!!!

    You need to read your own article. You left out a big part. You are only looking at the window sticker price. It is what it costs you including TTL AND financing charges. Your $27k TCH would come out around $35k with all those added costs. $20k -$21k MSRP is more the average selling price not the Price to own as your article reads. You are trying to have it both ways. That does not work.

    Comerica says the main reasons for the high prices are increased financing costs and because “consumers have used incentives to upgrade their vehicle choices.”

    Today a loaded TCH or Prius will have a sticker price of $31k and change. When you include TTL & financing it will be North of $40k. That is not your average buyer. Toyota Hybrids are for fat cats and those that like being in debt up to their EYEBALLS. The VUE hybrid is aimed at or just slightly above your average buyer.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,690
    The average price of a car includes all charges including finance charges.

    resulting in the worst reading for affordability in six years. Including finance charges, the total cost of buying an average-priced light vehicle was $29,200 in the fourth quarter, up 11 percent from a year ago.

    "Affordability has deteriorated over the past year because consumers are buying more expensive cars, financing a larger portion of those purchases, and paying higher interest rates on car loans," according to Dana Johnson, chief economist at Comerica Bank.


    Average car prices

    Hybrids may be the reason for higher priced cars?
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Who said you need a "loaded" TCH or Prius? They are still available with ALL the hybrid technology for $26K for the TCH and for $22K for the Prius.....before TTL of course.....but nonetheless, that does not price them out of middle income buyers range !!

    And Jonnycat, I don't know or care about the non-hybrid Vue - we are talking about the HYBRID VUE and it does NOT contain those basic hybrid instruments which all hybrids before it have utilized.....I think that is a step backward.....
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Gary said: "Toyota Hybrids are for fat cats"

    Gary, do what I did. Go to the "Toyota Prius - prices paid and buying experience" and review the prices which people have paid.

    Almost none of them are as high as $28K, and most are in the $25K to $26K range.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,690
    So you cannot see in your report from Comerica that the average price of a car includes financing, taxes and license? You are so dead wrong on this average price car. Even if there was such a thing as a $22k Prius it would be close to $30k with all the cost to own charges.

    When was the last time you saw a $22k Prius for sale on a lot?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,690
    and most are in the $25K to $26K range

    That is still $3k to $4k over what you are claiming is an entry level Prius. I say you won't find one. If you order one as a few folks have. It is 6-9 month wait. The dealers don't want to sell them.

    You are just being blind to the truth. Toyota hybrids are priced for the upper middle class PERIOD!!!

    And I give GM credit for offering a hybrid the bulk of the middle class can afford.
  • jonnycat26jonnycat26 Posts: 101

    Who said you need a "loaded" TCH or Prius? They are still available with ALL the hybrid technology for $26K for the TCH and for $22K for the Prius.....before TTL of course.....but nonetheless, that does not price them out of middle income buyers range !!


    A base Prius doesn't include side airbags (at least it didn't). That's a huge step backwards, and in my opinion, a car I'd never put a family in.

    And while it doesn't have the distracting instant MPG-o-meter of the Prius, the Vue does have a trip MPG calculator. That with the "ECO" light is probably simpler and better than what I have in my Prius. I know I'd trade.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Who CARES if it is a $30K cost to own? That's the going rate for ANY $22K car, not just a Prius !! That means the Hybrid Vue will be a $31K cost to own too....so by your logic, that puts the Vue "above average" also, does it not?

    If the base Prius is $21,725 (which it is) and the base Vue is $23,000 (which it is) then HOW IN THE WORLD is a Prius for FAT CATS and a Vue for JOE AVERAGE?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,690
    If the base Prius is $21,725 (which it is) and the base Vue is $23,000 (which it is) then HOW IN THE WORLD is a Prius for FAT CATS and a Vue for JOE AVERAGE?

    If you could find a base level Prius it would be near the average car price. In the largest car market in the World CA. You are not going to find, today, a Prius for anywhere near $21,725. I am not sure you will find the VUE for $23k. That was your posted price which is at least $2k less than the cheapest Prius you will find in my area of CA. I would think it would be tough to find a TCH for the price you paid in Phoenix, here in San Diego.

    I do think GM will put more of them out for sale than Toyota does their hybrids. They may go overboard and end up with surplus and have to give rebates to unload them. I would imagine the VUE uses the same 42 volt lead acid battery system that is in my GMC PU truck. That in itself will make it less expensive to build.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    You might get lucky and find one - I know Railroad James did....

    But REGARDLESS, you **CAN** go and ORDER a base Prius with a small deposit. Anyone can do that. That's why it is not a "fat cat" vehicle.....Sure you can spend $32K on one, but you can also spend merely $22K on one !!!

    I'm sure you can ORDER a base Vue Hybrid too.....
  • All I see are a bunch of posts arguing about the average cost of a new car

    BTW why would anyone want a hybrid VUE? It's not such a good car to begin with.
    One of my friends was a sales manager for Saturn and he bought an ELEMENT!!!!

    The people who own the Kayak shop by me had a Vue and got rid of it for an ELEMENT!!! Because the Vue was always breaking! :P

    The back seat of the Vue is like sitting on the floor. Why would anyone want this car?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,690
    had a Vue and got rid of it for an ELEMENT!!!

    The same could be said for the Element. Who would buy that ugly thing. It makes the Aztek look snazzy. The VUE sales are up this year 10% the Element is down a bit.
  • heel2toeheel2toe Posts: 149
    There is certainly some smug in the air tonight. ;)
  • Well apparently most of the many people buying the Element think it's snazzier than the Aztec was.
    If Vue sales are up 10% that's still only 110 Vue's, Ha Ha Ha! :D
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,690
    You are a funny guy. The VUE has sold 46k so far this year. The Element is lucky to have sold 26k this year. You are the first person I have seen post that does not think the Element IS UGLY!!! AZTEC ugly is kind of a benchmark for how ugly can they make a car. The Element may become the new benchmark.

    I've never been a Saturn fan but the VUE is not bad looking. Better looking than most of the Japanese wannabe SUVs.
This discussion has been closed.